Yamauchi has played Forza 3, thinks it's not quite a sim

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8:00 AM on 11.08.2009, Matthew Razak

52 comments | 5025 views

Yamauchi has played Forza 3, thinks it's not quite a sim photo

#Forza Motorsport #Gran Turismo #PS3 #Xbox 360

While people have vastly varying opinions on the overall quality of Gran Turismo's ability to simulate actual driving, the general opinion around the water cooler is that it's the closet thing you'll ever get to real racing unless you actually participate in some real racing. Its closest competitor in the world of popular racing console games is Forza, and the Forza guys have been talking some smack on GT ever since the recently released Forza III was announced.

Now that Forza III has been released and the competition has been able to check it out, what does legendary GT developer Kazunori Yamauchi think of it? Well, it's not quite a racing simulator, but it ain't bad. A few guys around the GT office, including Yamauchi himself, have played the competing racer and he came away with this, "I was watching the guys at our company trying it out in the office. I tried it a little bit. It's very similar in a lot of aspects to Gran Turismo. Some base components of the game are very different from Gran Turismo. It's a little bit different from what a simulator is. You can feel it when you drive it."

I'd say that he was being viciously backhanded, but there was nothing backhanded about that. He came out and said that Forza III isn't a simulator. Upfront and to the point that Yamauchi is. Nice to see they're checking out the competition, though. Anything in Forza III you wish would show up in GT5 when it lands in March of next year?

[Via CVG]

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next 50 comments

52 comments | showing # 1 to 50

Infinite Combo

In Forza, I like the ability to customize your cars and sell them on a marketplace. I think GT5 should introduce a similar feature in their game.

linuxguy

them fighting words

Onlineatron

Quite old...

The most interesting thing in the interview was when he said

'you can reverse your game'

Yamauchi said this whilst talking about beginner aids. It sounds like PD are implementing Forza/Grid style rewind features.

I reckon Sony saw how good Forza looked at E3/GamesCom and decided to postpone the release of GT5.

T

Smuckers

I love gt, but regardless of whether its a simulation i just think the driving feels better in forza. I would love to see a game with all the features and modes of gt (rally, nascar, etc.) but with the driving engine of forza. That would be my ideal racing game. And who knows that may be what gt5 is, but if the driving model is the same as gt5 prologue then imo forza just feels better to me.

Onlineatron

@smuckers

I think that was the most level-headed comment i've read ever...

Saying that, I do spend a lot of time on the Gametrailers forums

Mike

I wish the whole "released to the public" part would make it into GT5.

reindall

I don't know of any real sims for the consoles.

Simmy

It just seems like Kazunori Yamauchi is jealous of how good Forza 3 really is
I mean I love GT series to bits, but I don't see how it's going to compete with Forza this time around. That said I would like to have the different driving style implemented into Forza, just to make it a more complete racing simulator. That and having the Top Gear test track would be great in Forza.
Maybe in Forza 4, who knows?

reindall

Or I might do, seeing SimBin did realese something for the 360.

whatthi

there are a lot of car enthusiast that are waiting for GT and even has played
GT, i know a few guys who were convinced to buy and been car enthusiasts by starting playing GT and thats a true story..

in my humble opinion GT really is more of a simulator compared to other competitors, the way it reacts realistically when your driving and the way it swerves, it just feels right, it feels so close to driving a real car, those who drive cars would know this..

and i dont think Sony postponed the game because they saw Forza 3, they know that no matter what fans of GT are still going to buy the game, and if they did postpone the game i dont think they would postpone it THAT long (until next year?) a decent postponing of a game maybe a few months..and GT is going to be released in Japan first, they dont need to postpone the release of GT in Japan because of Forza where the 360 is not that popolar..thats in my opinion only

KrazyKraut

lol gt 1-5 and forza 1-3 are not simulations...they are video games...wtf..

NukaCola

For a second I imagined Nintendo's former president Yamauchi playing Forza 3. That made me giggle.

Xzyliac

@smuckers
Yeah and that's pretty much been the consensus of the unbiased around here.

I just wanted to point out that the man would never say anything overly positive of the game. I mean c'mon.

However I give him cred for calling out Forza even if he himself is working on a "simulator." I just don't like that term. I don't think you can simulate a race. Not yet. You can aspire to but there are a lot of variables.

Coming from a purely novice standpoint I have to say GT also feels "more simulator." However I have to wonder if that's just because of the fact that since PSOne I've been conditioned to believe GT was the end all be all. I have an uncle who used to race briefly (he dabbled in cars but his big thing was motorcycles) and he has Forza 3 and Prolouge and he told me Forza felt better to him. He has the wheel for them both and everything and I thought it was interesting because I had to disagree but not being a car guy, racing guy, or sim guy I had no real argument.

Enduro

I have fond memories of playing Gran Turismo 5 at E3 back in 2006. Even won a hat. Whatever happened to that game? It looked like it could have been pretty good.

Oh well, whatever. I'd rather have the two not-quite-simulators *WITH* damage models that released in the meantime than empty promises and stat-sheets.

iEro-Sennin

Well he's right.

*runs*

BeenThereDoneThat

I've been liking F3 more and more all the time. Especially if I don't play any other racing games (yeah right!) It does feel more "arcadey" than GT5P though. I would still say it is a SIM, just not as hardcore as GT5P. I usually turn off or turn down the "helper" settings in F3 to make it feel more sim-like . I hate the AI drivers at times. They hold on to the line way too aggressively. And they always win ALL bumping contest. But after all it's only a game, and it's a lot of fun. I have all the Forza's and GT's (and just about every racing game too!). This is no fanboy trolling, just my personal opinion. Your Mileage May Vary!

Gestault

I love Yamauchi's work, and I'll be buying his next game, but if he even says "GT is a true sim," then I'm going to lose a little bit of respect for the guy. Not the sale mind you, cause I like the games, but I think this comment was as off-handed as claiming that Forza III would be the best looking racing game this generation.

I love both these games/series. I wish their creators would be more...restrained in how they talk about competition.

BluDesign

Simulation meaning it has enough separation from reality to not be realistic?

Yeah, I'd say that Forza looks and plays a little bit more real than GT5, so maybe that's what he meant, in a backhanded complimentary sort of way.

Then again, when you take 5 years to produce nothing and then suddenly you've got a competitor who can produce 3 quality titles for two console generations in the same time frame, you're going to start having less polish and shine to gloat about and ripping your competition is the easy bitch move.

Markusdragon

Surely both pieces of software are video games rather than simulators.

IronRaiden

Duh, obviously it's not a racing simulator. Everybody knows in a racing simulator you have to be able to grind walls and play bump cars with in order to win.

Takeshi

Whatever.

Jon B

My real car is controlled using two triggers, two analogue sticks and a plethora of buttons.

True fact.

dj-anon

Matthew Razak: Wrong, iRacing is the ultimate simulator. Gran Turismo is still considered a "console simulator," and even then, you have Race Pro and Forza 3, with great physics and force feedback, these games simulate drafting, tire deformation, dirty air, and a lot of other things, so these might be video games first but are definitively simulators too, in answer to KrazyKraut and others.

Kazunori Yamauchi is not an unbiased source, worse, he is the main PR for his game. While the guys at Inside Sim Racing said Forza 3 was a serious simulator matching their "hardcore" PC counterparts.

http://www.insidesimracing.tv/

RedWinterWolf

Id like a Online network of biding for cars in GT5 other then that just keeping the way it is would be nice.

KwikPwn

Yamauchisan is a hater!! XD

nummy6

GT will never come out...ever....

reindall

@dj-anon - iRacing is far from an "ultimate" simulator, I wouldn't be surprised if it was less of a simulator than Forza 3. Racing line isn't rubbered, dirt doesn't stick to your tyres, you can't even get a flat spot or damage the clutch...

ArcticFox

@Jon B

Funny, cause my racing games are controlled by a $100 racing wheel.

Personally I really disliked the way Forza 2 played, so I skipped Forza 3 in anticipation of GT5. The Prologue did a great job of reminding me how Gran Turismo actually made it feel like I was actually driving a car. Forza 3 could be great for all I know, but judging from my past experience with Forza 2 and what I have played of GT5 (and then looking forward to the addition of Damage in the full release of 5), I have been previously biased against Forza 3. Im sure it is a fun game, but I know GT5 will be an excellent Sim. Another part of my decision to not get Forza 3, and Im sure Im in the minority here, but I snagged Need For Speed Shift, and the game was surprisingly fantastic. An awesome blend of arcade and sim racing, but the cars actually drive much more realistically then I would have ever expected from an NFS game. The realistic handling on the cars in NFS: Shift was a very pleasant surprise.

Scroll

Yeah it needs less/no realistic collision physics or damage.

Qraze

because rewinding time is a true simulation of real life driving. i do it all the time, in my fucking head.

CloneTrooper

Eh...Last GT I played was 4 on the PS2...and I put alot of time into it (was a housemates copy)

I prefer Forza. Forza two was a solid racer, the career and lack of variety made it get tedious very fast though...however Forza 3 seemed to solve nearly all the problems of Forza 2 and offer a vastly superior game. Cars handle like the way they're ment to handle, it feels solid when you nudge another car and makes you think twice about doing it.

Also, the biggest thing about Forza is it provides so many assists that you can find a combonation that fits your style of play and that is what maximises the fun of it...I want a driving game, not a simulator...

Mulk Calathar

I've long thought that people who argue about who most perfectly simulates driving high end cars on real tracks are just full of it. It's #@#$ing game. Get over it. Both games hype their realism through ridiculous anecdotes about episodes with real drivers. It's bunk. It's a game. It's for fun. It's NOT like real driving unless we find a Star Trek way of insulating a driver from physical forces so perfectly that it resembles looking at a race on a TV screen.

able_to_think

Yamauchi's probably like "Oh shit this game just might be better then mine, quick think of something slightly negative to say about it before people think I'm intimidated by how good it is".

Really though GT for PSP was a pile of crap. It made me have hardly any hope for the PS3 version, that and the fact that Forza 3 did all I wanted Gran Turismo 5 to do so I really don't see any reason to play it. I'm perfectly happy with Forza 3.

Baleur

A game is in the Electronic Entertainment "cloud", the key word there is entertainment.
GT4 may be more realistic in one way or another (though i doubt it, considering i know nothing of Grand Turismo), but I'm completely in love with Forza 3's handling model and general passion aspect. I'm having more fun than i've ever had with a racing game.

And thats what matters, they are all games. Some people seem to think that cheering for the most hardcore ultra-sim games make them less geeky somehow. But the fact remains, they are ALL just games. And we are all nerds.
Might as well have fun instead of being frustrated.

Cowboy TTop

Yamauchi's opinion is noted, but I can't help to feel a dose of sour grapes in his tone. Perhaps its a very japanese thing to not admit when you are beaten, or appreciate the competitions work, like you do your own. I'm sure this isn't the view of all at Polyphony though, and I appreciate it more when rivals check out each others games.

Turn 10 have a lot of respect for Polyphony to I'm sure, but I think they wouldn't hold back with their criticisms of GT's faults, within reason.

Thing is, for me personally, GT stopped being fun a long time ago. Forza sacrifices some of the hardcore car sims stuff in order to make the game fun and accessible to many players, that's commendable and the very reason I've steered clear of these games for so long is gone. In the same regard, you couldn't give GT to a child to play at all, its just too complex, at that's part of Sony's problem.

GT will sell because car nuts/owners worship it, and its fun will come from just driving mostly for them, good for them. Gamers IMO, look for deeper options of the kind that Forza 3 offers, and I really think Forza has given Polyphony a real shake all over, from the GT series itself, down to how they develop they games altogether. I'm sure they'll learn a lot, also that the japanese practice of working in a bubble does them a diservice. You should always be checking out the competition and learning from mistakes, yours and others.

mousepad42

Is he saying something incredibly obvious, or inferring that GT5 will be the ultimate sim racer? Is there more context to this blurb than meets the eye?

Haizeus

I'm the opposite of a lot of you. I prefer the driving in GT (with the "pussy" settings turned off of course) and I really love a lot of the features found in Forza. Here's to hoping that we'll see some nifty customization and network features in GT5.

Matthew Doucette

d.com is having some rendering issues in IE...

Haizeus

Only silly, silly people use IE.

Cowboy TTop

Thats fine, each to their own.

Another point is that in a recession, its best if you can sell to as many people as possible. Forza 3 sales will reflect that kind of thinking, and GT's while they will they'll do well too, won't.

Sim racers are nice, but just how fun are they? I also wonder if Yamauchi has also tested the rest of the driving competition, namely Dirt, Dirt2 and Need For Speed Shift.

mrandydixon

CONFIRMED: GT5 developers would rather play Forza 3 than finish their own game.

TJF588

"Yamcha has played Forza 3"

dj-anon

reindall: OK, netKar pro or ARCA sim, but Gran Turismo has a lot of catch up to do.

vexed alex

The common consensus around professional automotive journalists has always been that Forza 3's "tire to road" feel is much more realistic that Gran Turismo's.

I really am done with these arguments, though. It leads to fanboy fights. It's very trashy.

Indigo Dingo

@Nixon: Confirmed: Forza III devs feel its easier to bitch about Gran Turismo 5 being made by perfectionists than talk about their own game.

Seriously, the devs are being professional about it and making sure they've got the best game they can make. When did ddoing it fast become better than doing it right?

HOLY TACO

The marketplace is amazing, if GT doesn't have a similar feature though I'd be incredibly surprised. However great it is though, I found the implementation really lacking, hopefully GT will step it up.

Hmmm, can't think of much else though really. They are slightly different breeds, but Forza feels more focused than GT, and that isn't necessarily a good thing. I like how GT is all over the place, so many different modes and things to do. Forza 3 feels a little more linear to me. I've only played it for around 6-7 hours so far though so I imagine I'm yet to experience it's true beauty.

taiki

@Gestault did you read the AutoWeek piece? He makes a simple comment about Forza, but spends most of his time talking about Gran Turismo. When the T10 folks talk about Gran Turismo,t hey're talking about nothing but Gran Turismo.

BTW, I am the Stig. GT5 feels more like real racing.

(no, I'm not.)

dj-anon

taiki: "When the T10 folks talk about Gran Turismo,t hey're talking about nothing but Gran Turismo."

Proof or didnt happen.

Vitamin Awesome

being "a little bit different from what a simulator is" could mean just about anything, if we want to read into this. It could be a little bit different because of the Xbox 360 controller vs using a dual shock, It could be the way how the tire-to-track physics affect handling, hell, it could just be the fact that It's running on a console, and you don't have a motion-feedback seat with pneumatic pedals. I wonder what Yamauchi would say if the article mentioned SimBin or The Sim Factory. It's Healthy to check out the competition, it helps you get a better view of what's going on outside of your studio. If the Forza Motorsport franchise never existed, does anyone think Polyphony Digital would have even thought about damage modeling?

I loves me some Forza 3, and I'm sure that I'm going to loves me some GT5 when that's out. Will I pick one over the other? Probably not, I'm already digging the fact that Gran Turismo has WRC under their belt, and I'm digging the fact that Forza 3 has the community driven aspects like tuning configurations and decals. There can only be one clear winner regarding both studios: Me, the consumer.

TorpedoTed

Forza 3 is great, no doubt GT5 when it comes out will be great, i have an xbox 360 so i bought Forza, if you have a playstation get GT and enjoy it stop bitching!

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