games  anime  |  toys
Destructoid is gaming news, community, videos, and sometimes love. Take the tour or jump in with Facebook:

 


Yakuza designer would 'never want to make' a GTA game photo

Sega's Yakuza series has often been likened to Grand Theft Auto, since both games involve gangland dirty work in the big city. Despite the similarities between the two games, however, franchise designer Toshihiro Nagoshi seems quite unimpressed with Rockstar's legendary series, referring to it predominantly as a game in which you "kill people or do whatever."

"I thought one day someone is going to have to make something like this," he explains. "Personally, because I think you must think about the influence games have on people, I would never think about wanting to make a game like this. However, because of this moral issues in this game, I think we should have a healthy debate.

"In gaming, if you make a decision, there is a reaction, and it's the most stimulating form of media, I think. And thus, it can asked if it's the most dangerous media... Depending on what you make, perhaps."

It seems almost to me like Nagoshi is tempted to climb aboard the "videogames can turn people into killers" train that FOX news and The Daily Mail love to ride so much. I'm not entirely sure there is some big moral debate worth having here. It would be like me trying to debate the existence of Santa Claus or God or whatever. If you don't believe the problem's there, and all evidence points to you being correct, what debate can you really have?

I just think the very point of arguing about the mental impact of GTA is beneath me, and any other sensible person. There is no mental impact to debate, outside of people who are already emotionally screwed up, and those guys gave way more important problems to deal with than games.


Continue: More You son of a ... stories





prev next

28 comments | showing # 1 to 28

Carl Sagan's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:13
Carl Sagan
Jim, I love you, but arguing that realistic depictions of violence have no impact on the brain of a child is ludicrous.
the7k's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:21
the7k
"In gaming, if you make a decision, there is a reaction."

Not in GTA, honestly. You can have your main character go on a murderous rampage every 30 seconds, or have them cause only just enough carnage to get their job done, and it doesn't affect anything. You can shoot your partner right in the head as soon as a mission starts, and the only repercussion is that you have to start the mission over. I mean, this is a game where dying has less of a consequence than going to jail.
Clarke's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:23
Clarke
Someone's just mad their series isn't is as big as GTA.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:24
Jim Sterling
Carl Sagan:

Why would a child be playing these games? That's a different matter entirely, and I don't think the "kids can view these games" argument as valid. If a kid's playing a game like GTA, that's up to the parent to deal with.

And tbh, children are violent without the aid of videogames. We're a violent species. I don't think the impact of media is half as grave as people make it out to be.
eggdog14's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:29
eggdog14
@Carl Sagan, agreed. Any stimuli of any kind has an impact of some sort, and obviously realistic interactive violence will have a more visceral impact than lesser violence in other forms of media. Of course there is an effect, as most people will agree, it's just not one that will turn normal kids into psychopaths. It's weird to hear this kind of banter from a game dev, of all people - especially one who makes violent, crime-oriented videogames. What the fuck.
Sexualchocolate's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:31
Sexualchocolate
Yeah, people in general, not just kids, are influenced by everything they see around them, it's human nature.

By playing violent games / watching violent films / listening to agressive music violence and aggression become slightly more "normal" or "acceptable" to you.

But people in Germany and some others need to realise that this is not down to one form of media, and that it doesn't just "make" people violent killers, in fact it often is a good outlet for those with aggressive tendancies. These people are that way to begin with, there are people out there like that, they didn't need games to make them killers, they just needed to be pushed, shunned, insulted by their peers and made to feel the need for vengeance, coupled with the natural aggression / lack of respect for life they had anyway made them what they are, not the fuckin games they used to pass the time.

Gamers know fullwell that they're not taking a life when they shoot a digital person, shooting someone for real is a whole differnet ball game. it's not the act of shooting someone that we avoid, it's the act of taking a life / seriously injuring people. - Hell if we could shoot each other in real life and just respawn I would have a riot blasting away my mates!

Now the real argument is "are games more influential than other media like Music, TV, and Films?"
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:33
Chronic Logic
"For every action there is a reaction". You fire a gun, recoil happens. You punch someone, your fist is slightly sore. This is basic science, people.
Carl Sagan's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:35
Carl Sagan
For some reason, I thought we were talking about its effects on kids. I don't think there is any major concern over adults playing violent games, and I'd hate to see censorship in this day and age.

But yeah, somebody's got to keep this level of entertainment out of the hands of our youngsters. That's just asking for trouble in 2030.
topcatyo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:38
topcatyo
Not entirely. I was playing Doom at age 4, and I hate violence.
I mean, outside of video games, but otherwise, shit, I've helped spiders outside of my house, and I have a phobia of them.

Then again, I might be an exception.
laika one's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:39
laika one
wait, what?

Good to see hypocrisy is alive and well in the video game industry.
killboy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:39
killboy
there's no strong evidence either way on the whole ''do video games cause violence'' issue. Just because no study has ever proven they do doesn't automatically mean they don't.
HOLY TACO's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:48
HOLY TACO
I feel all forms of violent media can influence retards. But I don't pin it on games. Some kids in the city I live in killed their baby sibling they were babysitting doing wrestling moves they'd apparently learned from the game Wrestlemania according to their mum looking to place the blame, but not actual Wrestling or the TV show? Not to mention they didn't ever go to school and had no parental guidance from their single mum with 2 jobs, and they never do wrestling moves on babies in the game!!! Also some 45 year old dude stole a car and sped around city streets till arrested seemingly randomly. When asked why he said 'I wanted to see what it was really like to be in Grand Theft Auto' or something retarded to that effect, however I;m guessing he must be on drugs of some kind or else just a complete nutter. These were both jumped on by local papers as reasons why violent gaming is destroying the very fabric of our once oh so functional youth's minds and society of course.

Violent games are just a convenient whipping boy in %99 of cases. Some games imo do deserve criticism for their unnecessary over the top disturbing themes like Manhunt and Rapelay. But not GTA.
the7k's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 08:53
the7k
@ HOLY TACO
"Violent games are just a convenient whipping boy in %99 of cases. Some games imo do deserve criticism for their unnecessary over the top disturbing themes like Manhunt and Rapelay. But not GTA."

It's preferable that we don't get into "Drawing Lines". If you get to say "Yeah, Rapelay and Manhunt should be condemned, but GTA is okay", what's to prevent someone else from saying going further and saying GTA should be condemned? And then God of War, and then Call of Duty, until we get to a point where even jumping on goombas is a hell-worthy trespass.
agentarsenic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:04
agentarsenic
Toshihiro Nagoshi: "I don't want to make quality games people outside of Japan will actually care about, and by bringing morality into the picture I hope to sell my own violent game. I'm just jealous of record breaking sales."

Fix'd
manasteel88's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:11
manasteel88
I doubt he's wanting to debate whether GTA cause violence. I think he's alluding to the fact that there isn't a real repercussion to the mass murder had in GTA. The game even at points feels like it promotes a level of chaos.

I doubt there is an argument in his statement about whether GTA should be allowed in society, just an argument about the good and bad of this moral disconnect in gaming.
Super Drybones's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:16
Super Drybones
I played GTA when I was 10 years old, back when I used to violently masturbate to images of fire. Now a'days I run a group home for sexy large breasted women and am the worlds best chocolate testing billionaire. THANKS GRAND THEFT AUTO!!!
Korinthian's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:29
Korinthian
If all people thought that debate was useless, and that nothing could ever change their mind, then we would be in a very dangerous place.

Shape up, Jim, that's no way for a thinking person to be.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:33
Jim Sterling
"If all people thought that debate was useless, and that nothing could ever change their mind, then we would be in a very dangerous place."

I argue this shit all the time, but if people can't look at the wealth of evidence that supports the idea that videogames have no more negative impact on someone than any other form of entertainment, then I'm pretty much through trying to discuss it with them on a sensible, intellectual level. They are beyond the reach of sane discussion.
dip's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:42
dip
"Toshihiro Nagoshi: "I don't want to make quality games people outside of Japan will actually care about, and by bringing morality into the picture I hope to sell my own violent game. I'm just jealous of record breaking sales."

Fix'd"

Fixed for inaccuracy? Honestly, that doesn't even make sense. If he's jealous of GTA's sales, then we WOULDN'T he want to make a GTA like game to appeal to a larger audience (and thus sell more copies), unless he actually just prefers to make the kind of games he likes to make.

Please, if you're going to "fix" something, fix it. Don't break it and make it make even less sense in a cheap attempt to be clever or humorous.
Korinthian's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:49
Korinthian
@Jim "I argue this shit all the time, but if people can't look at the wealth of evidence that supports the idea that videogames have no more negative impact on someone than any other form of entertainment, then I'm pretty much through trying to discuss it with them on a sensible, intellectual level. They are beyond the reach of sane discussion."

You're the one that proclaimed that you had already made your mind up. Don't disregard the possibility of new evidence being unearthed.

I'm not saying video games are inherently bad, but being too rigid about it smacks of religious thinking.
Tascar's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 09:49
Tascar
I have heard that the Japanese don't really like GTA because of the fact that the violence is often completely pointless and simply for the sake of doing it. I think this guy may have done a poor job explaining his point, but I wonder if that's what he was trying to comment on.
Super Drybones's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 10:01
Super Drybones
@Korinthian
But by that logic a person can never make up their mind. You could say gravity might not exist because you can't disregard the possibility of new evidence being unearthed.
Also can you explain the second half of that statement "
I'm not saying video games are inherently bad, but being too rigid about it smacks of religious thinking.".
I don't think it means what you think it means.
Neo Rena's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 10:12
Neo Rena
@manasteel88
Seems like you were the first person to actually grasp what was being said in the article, and I completely agree.
Sounds more like how he was talking about how the violence in GTA has absolutely no consequences, even if you die or get arrested you just get let out with some money and weapons lost. While in Yakuza there's more of an impact based on what you do (though how much of one I don't exactly know yet, still working my way through number 1)
Korinthian's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 10:21
Korinthian
@Super Drybones.

Make up your mind all you like, but realize that things can change, and if/when they do, don't hold onto your old beliefs in spite of new evidence.
Killrig's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 14:08
Killrig
I'm influenced to purchase Yakuza 3 when it hits the US.
Gyro's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 14:32
Gyro
This is why I love Destructoid over almost any other game site. A seemingly cryptic or stupid comment from a game developer turns into a passionate and thought-provoking debate on the effects of gaming and the very point of debating itself. Keep them neurons firing, guys and gals, and know I love it.
Bear Guts's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 15:33
Bear Guts
I know that you've a reputation as maybe a borderline troller Jim, but even so, be careful. The guy is nowhere near saying that games make killers, and you're sounding worrying tabloid there with that sort of binary viewpoint about the subject. I'm with him - games don't make people do anything, but they do influence. Any small dose of media influences. If you're aware of it it is massively undermined, but if you're in any number of target groups, you can be very suggestible to this sort of stuff. I say again, games don't make you do anything, but if it's in you already, they can make it easier - violence, whatever. He's behind a series of Yakuza games, so he's obviously got a balanced view on the subject when he's talking videogame violence.

Really though, I'm speaking up because I get nervous whenever anyone says that debate is a pointless or bad thing. Debate and reasoned thinking about this stuff if what makes this site and its community exceptional.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/19/2009 18:08
Jonathan Holmes
A good friend of mine is bringing his 2 year old son up on Jaws, Resident Evil 5, and Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop.

I'll let you all know if he grows up to be a serial killer, though I think the chances are awfully slim.
prev next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!

 
New on Destructoid.TV play all videos

Loading
Loading Destructoid Videos


    Win this!
    Dive in! meetup+play for a chance to win a PC

    Dtoid Twitter    Got news?   tips@destructoid.com

    Reviews & Previews
    Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles review
    Left 4 Dead 2 review
    Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Reflex review
    Arkedo Series - 02 SWAP! review
    EyePet review
    more reviews
    Legend of Zelda Spirit Tracks
    Monster Hunter Tri
    Hooking onto, under and above Just Cause 2
    PS3's 256-player MAG
    Rooms The Main Building
    more previews


    - The Dtoid Army is 50768 strong -

    Showing Cblogs with 3+ faps   show all

    Call for entries: do the wrong thing

    New to Dtoid? Read the survival guide




     Originals
    Jim Sterling: The ultimate PC gamer to-do list





















    More Destructoid Originals




     Popular now more






















    Team Destructoid   tips@destructoid.com
    Nick Chester
    Editor-in-Chief
    Niero
    Founder, publisher
    Jim Sterling
    Reviews Editor
    Hamza Aziz
    Community Manager
    Dale North
    News Editor
    Rey Gutierrez
    Video editor & director
    Anthony Burch
    Features Editor
    Colette Bennett
    Tom Fronczak Brad Nicholson
    Ashley Davis Ben Perlee
    Conrad
    Zimmerman
    Chad Concelmo
    Jonathan Holmes Jonathan Ross
    Brad Rice Jordan Devore
    Will Maddock Matthew Razak
    Dyson Joseph Leray
    Topher Cantler Samit Sarkar
         
      Dexter
    Adam Dork
    Daniel Lingen
    Hollie Bennett
    Joe Burling
    Mikey
    Stella Wong

    Josh Tolentino




     

     
      get involved

    register or login
    post a blog
    post a forum
    enter a contest
    contribute a news tip
    suggest a feature
    be a guest editor
    support

    new member's guide
    login assistance
    tech support
    report abuse
    email our editors
    read our dev blog
    nuclear crisis?
    keep in touch

    RSS feed
    Twitter
    Facebook
    Myspace
    Flickr
    Game nights
    Meetup+play online
    seriously

    about Destructoid
    advertising
    terms of use
    privacy policy
    jobs at MM
    buy our crap
    our network

    Tomopop
    Japanator
    Despingation?




    Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
    living the dream since March 16, 2006