The reason why there is less on consoles is not because of costs.....its simply because in japan they arent as popular
Hell, Valkyria is a PERFECT example of what I am talking about. It started on PS3, its sequel went right to the PSP.
I have been saying pretty much the exact same thing for awhile now, about the wii and the 3ds. It is nice to see someone has a similar stance as me on this subject. ^_^
But thats just a consequence of the ds and psp being the most popular systems in japan, thats the real reason why we are seeing all those games, not the costs........
Like I said if gust, which is the size of a starting baseball team, can do 3 ps3 games, rpgs no less. I am not so worried that things couldnt be done
Valkyria moved to the psp not because of the graphical cost, but because simply the popularity of the psp could not be ignored
The finished product in this case, Xenoblade, is more a testament to how good a game can be despite any technical or platform limitations. I think it should be praised for bringing the Wii an excellent game, rather than pouted at for not being as pretty as Final Fantasy XIII. (Which, many have alternatively bitched at for being 'nothing but pretty graphics'.)
So yeah, I agree with you mostly, Jim. Although as a handheld gamer, I am fine with JRPGs being drawn to the 3DS and PSVita. As long as the genre continues to exist, I won't mind as much if its on a TV or not. Speaking of which, I should go back to playing Persona 3 Portable now.
Do graphic artists get paid based on texture resolution?
The only way I see that as a reality is if we're talking about a visual resource budget driving the graphics EG: Once you did upres the game some of the more complex scenarios you were rendering very cheaply became a frame rate nightmare.
Although, on the other hand, that still doesn't excuse other simplifications like context-sensitive controls and poor modern level design. I miss the days when a gamers tool-set were built out of actions you could perform anywhere at anytime, not just when standing in the right place, though perhaps that too, is the price of modern animation quality.
What does bother me about it being on the wii is the awful classic controller. It absolutely destroys my truckasaurus hands after about 15 minutes of use. I finally broke down and bought the "pro" version and its much better. Now I'm finding I actually do really enjoy the game itself!
I already said why it went........it had everything to do with the psp popularity and sega thinking they could make alot more money there. Thats exactly what the creator said
We will see what system the new game is on but I have a feeling it wont be psp
"There is a reason why theres been more japanese rpgs this gen made than ever. Its because theres more systems then ever to put them on"
I don't think that the PS3 and 360 combined have as many JRPGs on the as the PS2 does. The DS and PSP were good to us but that goes to prove Jim's point that having a less powerful system frees up manpower to make a better game.
The point is no one would have allowed it to look any less than super high ress ultra graphics.
Basically, it would have been an invisible "requirement" to make the game as graphically powerful as possible, and this forced attention to that aspect would take away from the rest of the game.
Ps2= 1 in japan
360 and ps3 = 3-5 in japan
For systems with places 3-5 in japan, theyve seen the most rpgs in history
Jims point was they are there because of cost, I am saying they are there because of userbase, popularity, attachrate and other factors
The Wii has Five plates running and that's stressful enough, but over on 360 you need ten plates and on PS3 twelve plates to keep stable. The more details, the more systems and all that the more that can go wrong if you don't have the horsepower to cover it.
Skyrim looks lovely, but yet so many things go wrong. Its not just the programmer's fault, its that Skyrim tends to demand more than PS3, 360 or a meager PC can give.
The Wii doesn't have to strain so hard.
But let's face it -- the bigger publishers out there are not going to jump on that theory. Most gamers on HD consoles expect more than sprites, and that pressure is what leads to games looking so good at the expense of gameplay. The Wii doesn't have that kind of market pressure, allowing Xenoblade and Last Story to focus on being good games.
When the Wii goes, I don't think we will see an increase in games like Gust's.
"When I say the game has to look like "shit", I am being flippant."
I guessed as much. But I still find it weird when other people say this kind of stuff with a straight face.
I would say it is short sighted to take one look at a character model that has a basic mouth, and judge the entire game. when standing on bionis leg and looking right at the other end, which is an INSANE distance away, and being able to see EVERYTHING, that is what I consider incredible visuals.
I agree with other points though, such as if xenoblade were on ps3, they would have spent too much money on more detailed character models. I think it's up to us as consumers to buy games that are good but have less refined graphics. if xenoblade was ported to ps3, I'd certainly buy it in a snap.
and surely the likes of tales of graces are not that much more graphically on steroids than xenoblade?
What I am saying to you is cost is just 1 factor why games go on the systems they do. It isnt the be all end all
The bigger publishers have always embraced that theory. Put the most support on the most popular systems. Costs, install base, its just a nice bonus
"Most gamers on HD consoles expect more than sprites, and that pressure is what leads to games looking so good at the expense of gameplay."
There is no fact or research on this so I am just going to leave this here......
all I am going to say is disgaea 3 and 4 on the ps3 sold around twice as much as 1 and 2 did........so I think people still like there sprites
When the wii goes, the wii u will have gusts games......
oh and I was wrong by the end of the year it will be 4 gust games on the ps3
Perhaps the DS and PSP are the most popular systems in Japan because their limited tech requirements have fostered the sort of gaming experiences Jim is talking about, and NOT the other way around. Correlation is not causation, Stealth. Also, I think direct word from the developer (as per The Silent Protagonist's post) counts for much more than the unfounded hypotheses of someone totally unconnected to the product's development.
It is a pretty big bloody factor though.
In fact, there's a quote from Monolith Soft itself saying that it chose to focus on gameplay over graphics and that the reduced visual quality allowed it to do that. I am waiting on Holmes to get the quote for me.
they are the most popular because of alot of factors which is what I am getting at..........
That was also just 1 of his statements on the matter, he said exactly what I said which proves my point that things are not black and white
"Ps2= 1 in japan
360 and ps3 = 3-5 in japan
For systems with places 3-5 in japan, theyve seen the most rpgs in history"
I didn't realize there was such a complex mathematical formula to this. You said that this generation had more JRPGs then last gen. I'm saying that you're wrong and last gen had more. If you want to find a list to prove me wrong feel free but I think it will be a waste of your time.
costs, popularity, userbase, attach rate its all the same, all matter
Monolith is owned by nintendo, so they have to make games on nintendo platforms.......
what exact graphical intense heavy nintendo platform did they have the choice to go on?
I would think most devs focus on gameplay first. Or at least I would hope so.
And it isnt like xenoblade looks like it belonged on the atari...........they did focus on everything to make the game that good
PSP - not the popularity of PSP - made that an easier goal to reach.
I wish more games cared more about gameplay than graphics like Xenoblade does, I just wish they were on an HD console. Dear game makers, read this post and take it to heart. Polish matters more than polygon count.
@able to think
i hope that was sarcasm there
Let me break it down this way
Last gen
Ps2 - ALOT of rpgs, we know this
gba - The second highest amount
gamecube - barely anything but still there
xbox - 2
This gen
DS - ALOT of rpgs
PSP - ALOT of rpgs
wii - more rpgs than the gamecube had
360 - 500 percent more japanese rpgs than the xbox had
ps3 - The only system which doesnt have as many as the past gen, but still not shabby
ios - Alot of japanese rpgs
The way I see it its not even close
In fact alot of rpg series have seen there most entries this gen, legend of heroes, pokemon, tales, final fantasy, dragon quest, amongst other things
I always hate it when a dev makes a game outside of the console limitations, you're doing yourself no favors and your hurting the experience of the people who bought your game.
The point is no one would have allowed it to look any less than super high ress ultra graphics.
Basically, it would have been an invisible "requirement" to make the game as graphically powerful as possible, and this forced attention to that aspect would take away from the rest of the game.
Games are super expensive, and as a direct consequence of that I gladly accept the current trend of being charged multiple times to see the entirety of any given game. Concessions must be made, and if I want a highly polished game, then I'm going to have to be willing to pay premium for it. A $60 price tag implies a certain level of quality, and while I got my jollies just fine with the meat of the game, it's fine that the GI contributor was a little discontent with how Xenoblade looked. His definition of AAA is set to current, high-def FPS driven standards.
It's at this point that developers need to understand their limitations better, and work around them rather then just trying to power through. Not every game needs to be photo-realistic, but something needs to be offered in exchange. Journey is a beautiful game that does wonders with minimalistic character design and stark environments, and it maintains an HD resolution by doing so. If it costs too much, takes too much time to develop that looks as good as Uncharted or Gears of War or Crysis, then those developers need to stop trying to compete on the same playing field and start trying to look aesthetically distinct.
If they can't find a way to please people visually with the tools that they have then they run the risk of becoming irrelevant on those terms. People like me will continue to flock to these games because of what's offered beyond the graphics, but the general audience won't care. Angry Birds is more immediate and takes almost no time or money to play, COD is prettier and visceral in its sense of competition. Story-driven turn-based single player time sinks are becoming a historical oddity that not enough people demonstrate genuine interest in. Being comparatively ugly and indistinct in visual design at first glance is a part of that problem.
I got a whole lot more out of Radiant Historia than I ever will out of a pretty looking game like FFXIII (which in all honesty I wanted to throw to a pack of dogs, but what did the dogs do to me).
Pretty high poly but boring/bad games < super fun games with simple graphics.
So what you're saying is the systems with the lowest development cost have the highest number of JRPGs. Doesn't that support Jim's point that it's too expensive to realize a studios vision in HD?
That isnt true because like I proved really small devs are making ps3 rpgs. Bigger ones could if they wanted to but its there choice to put games on whatever system they want.........
Atlus has been involved in over 10 rpg projects this gen......if they wanted to do a ps3 rpg, they could have, they choose not to.

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