the colours and doodles scare me :(

That was stupid.

its crap.
It's basically someone trying to make game art, "hey let me put some more scribbles, thatll make it more artsy and crazy"

Music's kinda catchy. "C'mon and meet your maker!"

I'm not a big fan of poetry, because it is so open to interpretation that it allows complete morons to create complete crap, and the real poets are lumped in with them and they dissolve into the ridicule that they all recieve...

That doesn't mean to say i don't like this, i just don't know whether to define it as some smug prick sitting there happy because he was able to play people around to the point of making them think he's a genius, or someone who actually wanted to do something different and who really appreciates what he's saying and has an entire philosophy behind the things he thinks.

The natural temptation for most people is to say the former, but there are some things that actually stand out as being really inspired. There's a little bit on the penultimate level where you have to choose between two doors with a heavy suggestion for you to pick one in particular. If you pick the other one, you get sent back. But it subtley highlights a point about obedience which you pick up on and have to learn from in order to get the get the final prize. Yes, it may be pretencious, but it makes you think, and while it's still a very blurred distinction, it's still something.

Basically, as much as i hate to say it, i'm leaning towards the idea that there might be something in this, i think it's the video at the end. I'm still not taking it entirely seriously though.

tldr. mindless bs.

;P

You've been found John Malone!

i played this last night. Charlie thinks its some artsy fartsy person making a game, but I think it's someone just trying to create an experience of psychosis. Who makes flash games? artsy fartsy people? no, very technically trained people. That's my two cents.

eBay?

too much Radiohead methinks

I thought it was pretty neat.

Maybe I'm lame for liking it, but when I spend hours of my day playing Population: Tire and Falling Sand it obviously doesn't take much to amuse me.

Im evan more retarded that i was before

"come on and meet your maker"

sage francis anyone

ummm...wow. Certainly seems like someone's senior art project or something. There is definitely a schizophrenic vibe to this, but there's not one thing in particular you could pinpoint that would make it that. I agree with those who said it's too precise and technical to be the work of some stoner dude, or drunk programmer. Intriguing. Thanks, Rev.

@ Brad, hey, i think you got me wrong... I wasn't saying that he was, far from it in fact. I'm actually on your side here, my point is that with "art" of this nature, it's very difficult to define between the inspired stuff and the pretencious bastards who DO just want to take the attitude that you described, of ridiculing anything that they don't understand or that tries to be different... read my post again without bias and try and you might see what i'm talking about.

I support being different and (i'm not blaming you not reading and remembering every post i've made, but) i've been making that pretty clear in my posts, i think. The problem is exactly that if you try to be different, you're accused of being pretencious, but the reason for that is because it's so difficult to define between the two. I want to support people being different, i really do, but i don't want to be caught out mistaking one for the other, so i was kinda sitting on the fence and not really saying either way. That being said, you have made some good points.

Check out this game. I think you'll like it.
Forbidden.

@ -D- yes!

art [ahrt]
–noun
1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

Eh, the whole "I may not know art, but I know what I like" thing is just something I picked up from Leisure Suit Larry, whenever he looks at a pixelated picture of a naked woman (circa LSL2 or so). Certainly the phrase didn't originate there, but that's the first place I ever saw it used, and it just kinda stuck with me. It wasn't intended as some kind of serious critique or anything.

And I agree, art isn't or shouldn't be just for art snobs.

As for the the whole "is he being serious or just pretentious?" thing... why does it matter? Who cares what the artist's intentions were? If you, the viewer (or in this case, the player) took something away from it, even if it was something completely unintended by the creator, even if it was just that the music was cool or something, doesn't that give the piece in question some value? Would it matter if the creator was just bullshitting around and pulling stuff out of his ass for the sole purpose of trying to make himself look big or important or smart or whatever (i.e. he was being pretentious), if you looked at the thing and said "Oooh, that's neat, I like it"? Why must it be judged on the intentions of the creator, as of yet unknown, and not on its own merits? And even after the intentions of the creator was known, should it matter even then? Sure, that may color one's impressions of it a bit, but should it totally invalidate those impressions if they happened to be different from the intentions of the creator? Let's say the guy who made this were to post here and say "HAHA ALL YOU FOOLS FELL FOR IT! I WAS JUST BEING FACETIOUS AND YOU GUYS TREATED IT SERIOUSLY! RETARDS!" Big deal. Let him be a smug prick, if he wants to be. I still liked it. *shrug*

@ Brad
You didn't give me the impression that i was attacking you, and i'm sorry i gabe you that impression, i think you just misunderstood me. But enough of this, we could be here for a while otherwise.

As for being wrong, it's hard to put into words. I mean, it's obvious to you until you have to describe it. I suppose it's because i draw a line between meaningful art and pretencious, intellectually stunted art. There are people who are actually striving to understand the world, to produce something that the can call their own, to express beyond the normal - it's different from person to person. But then there are people who are doing it to look good in the crowd, people who are doing it for money or for attention, I don't know. Then there are people who just aren't trying. I don't want to support a kind of apathetic, easy take on life. People who make cheap jokes at easy targets for example, or people who take trust for granted.

It's a very complicated argument, and i suppose you've caught me at a bad time. I'm still trying to understand myself and i can't always come up with an answer immedately. The basics of it though are that i don't want to be wrong, i don't want to see art in everything, i only want to see art in tallent, effort or intelligence. I want to see art in things that people have invested themselves in. I mean, lets say you get a troll on a forum. even if you agree with the general point their making, you don't ACTUALLY agree with them, do you? Because they're just showing off, violating their freedom, being a pain in the ass. You just imagine some nice juicey insult and you send them on their way...

I could go on about this for ages, but it just boils down to perspective... Why do i not want to be on the wrong side of the fence? I don't know, probably because i just don't want to look like an idiot, but i don't know.

It's like Jack Thompson (cursed be his name). I actually agree with some small part of the stuff he says, honest to God. It's just that he slathers it some thoroughly in pretentious bullshit that it makes me want to vomit and not take anything he says seriously, even if it's something I slightly might agree with. So, yeah, you actually make a good point.

Of course, I don't believe that the spewings of Jack Thompson (or forum trolls) are art, in any sense of the word, so it's comparing apples and oranges. Then again, there are those who do consider trolling to be an artform, and if I looked at it in a certain, perverse, completely sociopathic manner, I guess maybe I could see that viewpoint as well. If I held it under a microscope and squinted really really hard. So maybe not so much apples and oranges as oranges and lemons.

If this game is just some crazy new form of trolling, which I don't think it is but can't be totally sure, of course, then I have to admit, it's a masterful, almost artistic, bit of trolling.

It certainly gives me a new appreciation for a lot of Summa's posts, that's for sure. (Yes, I did go there.)

You're right, but my opinions arn't based around what other people think, more what i would think of myself looking back in five years time, if you can imagine that. So many times i've done something a bit outlandish and looked back thinking how silly and immature i was. Now i appreciate that we all make mistakes, we all do a lot of things that we perhaps aren't too proud about, but if you've belong to a particular school of thought and then directly contradict yourself by saying something blatantly stupid without even realising it, then you're kinda nullifying your own identity; if you can't be sure of what is good and bad (allowing growth to actually just mature that opinion like wine), and you actually have to change your opinion because you were in fact too ignorant to see something so obvious... well, i suppose that just another part of growth as well, but if it's possible to just avoid that or perhaps just get it right first time, that's a lot better, isn't it? For example, it's pretty obvious that you don't put meat in a cake. you want to get the recipie right, then sure, you may need to adjust your quantities somewhat, but you shouldn't need to be told to avoid the turkey stuffing or rat poison...

It's good to talk to people like you guys, it's reassuring to know that there are intelligent people out there.

I don't really like how this discussion is hijacking the thread, but... fuck it.

->Phil: Everyone changes over the course of their lives. That doesn't make who a person is at any given time any less themselves. As long as you're honest with yourself, there's no reason to view a past self as immature, and there's absolutely no point in trying to be a future self it's impossible to predict. Finally, most people are wrong about most things most of the time. There's no shame in it. The only problem comes about when people are unwilling to admit their mistakes, and insist they're right pigheadedly against all reason. If you learn from your errors, they can actually benefit you more than your victories.

Just as an aside(about the meatcake thing), you shouldn't make assumptions about things you haven't tried.

my balls itch.

"I don't really like how this discussion is hijacking the thread, but... fuck it."
Thinking along the same lines.

The meat cake thing actually just didn't work. I was finding it hard to actually think up stuff you use as bad ingredients - first i thought salt, but then i thought that might work, then i thought fruit, but there's carrot cake and then there's cheese cake and the only think that i could coe up with that was abstract enough was meat. Anyway.

The basic logic for it is being the best you can be. Of course people make mistakes, of course there's no shame in it and of course it's all part of growing, that's all very cliché and super. But take a look at Sun Tsu's Art of War. He describes preparedness and understanding; victory comes not just through understanding your enemy but from understanding yourself, which i presume to mean your limitations, your advantages, you disadvantages, the way other people see you, and so on. In other words, to be self aware.

Of course people are going to make mistakes, I make them all the time, but as long as i'm prepared for the idea that i'll make mistakes, we're okay. The problem arises when i make stupid mistakes, mindless blunders into things i should have thought about more thoroughly first. The way it relates to this is that if i go ahead and say "this is probably a load of shit" then there's the automatic counter argument of "but what if it isn't? What if this person has spent hours pouring their heart and mind into this and you've just decided to ridicule it there and then?", and vice versa.

I'm listening to System of a Down for the first time in ages and they still sound fantastic. My Chemical Romance, on the other hand, i grew out of. I don't mind that, and i still think that MCR have musical tallent, even if i don't like their songs at all any more. SoaD on the other hand are pure genius, you can appreciate it on different levels, so it grows with you. Actually, this comparison relates to this a lot more than i first thought; this game could be either of the above two, it could be just a random spew of emotion and rubbish like MCR, or it could be making real political and personal points, such as with SoaD. Just something to think about, i suppose...

Anyway. It comes down to leaving your options open, not going blindly into a dead end and then havng to back track if you can work out the route logically (i'm thinking of it like a hedge maze). Of course people are going to make mistakes, but not all mistakes are unavoidable.

If you want to go into this on a psychological level, it makes sense; i was bullied at school as a kid and led to believe that any expression would result in ridicule, so i began to choose my words more carefully as i grew up and hold my opinions back until i was sure i was right, so that i didn't embarress myself. It's very textbook and all part of life.

Aw, to hell, i'm just gonna go ahead and say this. Look, try and get one step ahead of my thinking. Right now you're saying things that are very true, but for the most part i already know, i've already thought about and gone beyond... try and imagine the thought processes that i'd go through, then combine it with your own mindset and come up with an answer.