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Why the hell should we pay for this DLC when we're already paying for Live (which is supposed to make the online experience better blah blah) and commercials are already present? GODDAMNIT MICROSOFT
@ Timmeh
Absolutely. I've never read more blatant stupidity on this site than I have from 360 owners. And no, not because they chose a 360-which is a great console in theory, but dear Lord do they need to iron out their hardware-but because of the blindingly asinine things they say to justify their continued support of the console. I've routinely read people saying things like "Well my 3rd Xbox 360 RROD'd on me today. Guess I have to buy another one" (God forbid you try another console), or "Yeah, a lot of 360's brick in the first couple of months of owning it, and Microsoft knew about the problem, but they fix it free" (like that's ample consolation for such shady business practices).
I suppose I don't understand why, as a consumer, so many are willing to just bend over and take it. And this issue with the L4D DLC just another example where people know that they're getting screwed, and are going ahead with it anyway. Say what you will about Microsoft's practices, a lot of people are not giving them any incentive to act otherwise when you blindly gobble up what shit they give you.
Absolutely. I've never read more blatant stupidity on this site than I have from 360 owners. And no, not because they chose a 360-which is a great console in theory, but dear Lord do they need to iron out their hardware-but because of the blindingly asinine things they say to justify their continued support of the console. I've routinely read people saying things like "Well my 3rd Xbox 360 RROD'd on me today. Guess I have to buy another one" (God forbid you try another console), or "Yeah, a lot of 360's brick in the first couple of months of owning it, and Microsoft knew about the problem, but they fix it free" (like that's ample consolation for such shady business practices).
I suppose I don't understand why, as a consumer, so many are willing to just bend over and take it. And this issue with the L4D DLC just another example where people know that they're getting screwed, and are going ahead with it anyway. Say what you will about Microsoft's practices, a lot of people are not giving them any incentive to act otherwise when you blindly gobble up what shit they give you.
Just a heads-up guys, but XBox Live Gold is not the only online service that asks for a subscription: a raft of MMOs, WoW being the current standard-bearer, ask for a monthly fee.
You bought the game, you bought the Internet, you bought the game player... Blizzard actively blocks the content in your game until you give them money. Ludicrous? Only if people aren't willing to pay, and that's the only criteria you have to fulfil in order to charge.
You bought the game, you bought the Internet, you bought the game player... Blizzard actively blocks the content in your game until you give them money. Ludicrous? Only if people aren't willing to pay, and that's the only criteria you have to fulfil in order to charge.
Another reason why I'm phasing out my 360 and going to PC/PS3. And encouraging friends not to go the 360 route.
@JohnnyJustice: I disagree. Regardless of what developers do, pirates have no right to own and play their games for free. If they don't want the game enough to pay for it, surely they can live without it.
Unhand my alias you brute!
Unhand my alias you brute!
@XV1
Yea I totally can relate to that. Unfortunately it's like this business trick that you can sell your product for more by making the customer purchase it in smaller increments. And then before you know it, you're so deep in that it's cheaper to just continue.
@CaptainBus
Yea I've played a few MMO's and I don't mind paying since you do get what you pay for on those games. It usually insures that the company will keep actively supporting it. Xbox live definitely gives their customers what they pay for, but it still is the only console including handhelds that requires you pay a fee to play your games online.
Yea I totally can relate to that. Unfortunately it's like this business trick that you can sell your product for more by making the customer purchase it in smaller increments. And then before you know it, you're so deep in that it's cheaper to just continue.
@CaptainBus
Yea I've played a few MMO's and I don't mind paying since you do get what you pay for on those games. It usually insures that the company will keep actively supporting it. Xbox live definitely gives their customers what they pay for, but it still is the only console including handhelds that requires you pay a fee to play your games online.
XBL is shit and a scamjob. L4D shoulda been for the PS3 too because its fucking free on the PSN. But fuck you Gabe, you fat lazy fuck. And LOL at Xbots for being screwed over again.
Again, it's interesting how Burnout Paradise DLC was allowed to be free, but other companies like Valve can pass the buck and blame MS for "having" to charge for their DLC. So, should we give MS the props for free Burnout Paradise DLC, or are Valve and other companies that claim that they'd like to do free DLC but are kept from doing so by MS full of shit?
Can't have it both ways.
Can't have it both ways.
@Gene Eric
Wow. So much hate and bias for a gaming industry leader.
Couldn't help but take your comment from this article and use it here.
Wow. So much hate and bias for a gaming industry leader.
Couldn't help but take your comment from this article and use it here.
@ CaptainBus
Industry leader? They are number 2 in hardware, and that is only this generation, and only if you don't count the PC. They lead in software sales, but that's because the kids buy everything.
And as for your MMO comparison further down, MMOs add constant content, monitor and patch issues consistently, and offer server services no other genre needs or has. MMOs could probably be cheaper, or microtransaction based, but they do need income after launch, that's just common sense.
Xbox Live on the other hand charges you to play games online when you already bought the game and Internet service, and it is all peer-to-peer, they can't even say they are charging you for minor server support, because they don't offer it. What else should cost money? The community features are free to Steam, PSN and even Silver members on their own service... the hosted DLC and Arcade games are paid for by their own seperate cost... the videos and demos are ads.
Face it, Xbox Live is a scam and millions are slaves to it because they are too spoiled to not play the few exclusive multiplayer games Xbox has.
Industry leader? They are number 2 in hardware, and that is only this generation, and only if you don't count the PC. They lead in software sales, but that's because the kids buy everything.
And as for your MMO comparison further down, MMOs add constant content, monitor and patch issues consistently, and offer server services no other genre needs or has. MMOs could probably be cheaper, or microtransaction based, but they do need income after launch, that's just common sense.
Xbox Live on the other hand charges you to play games online when you already bought the game and Internet service, and it is all peer-to-peer, they can't even say they are charging you for minor server support, because they don't offer it. What else should cost money? The community features are free to Steam, PSN and even Silver members on their own service... the hosted DLC and Arcade games are paid for by their own seperate cost... the videos and demos are ads.
Face it, Xbox Live is a scam and millions are slaves to it because they are too spoiled to not play the few exclusive multiplayer games Xbox has.
@StingingVelvet
The "Wow. So much hate and bias for a gaming industry leader. " comment is a verbatim quote from Gene Eric's comment in the make.believe article. It amused me that he found the negative response to the new Sony PR campaign reproachable but was all set to lay some fresh foaming hate down when it came to a discussion about XBox 360 DLC.
Interestingly enough though, I'd like to raise a point: Microsoft is currently the industry leader in online console gaming. More people use the XBox 360 for online gaming than the PS3 or the Wii. This means millions of people are happy to pay for Live Gold. Microsoft ask if they are willing to pay and millions say "yes".
I don't feel ripped off because I like to play games such as Halo3 and Gears of War 2 online. I have lots of friends that also like to play online, therefore I am willing to pay £40 a year.
Would I prefer if it were free, like PSN and Nintendo Wi-Fi? Absolutely.
Do I feel I get value out of my Gold subscription though? Absolutely.
The "Wow. So much hate and bias for a gaming industry leader. " comment is a verbatim quote from Gene Eric's comment in the make.believe article. It amused me that he found the negative response to the new Sony PR campaign reproachable but was all set to lay some fresh foaming hate down when it came to a discussion about XBox 360 DLC.
Interestingly enough though, I'd like to raise a point: Microsoft is currently the industry leader in online console gaming. More people use the XBox 360 for online gaming than the PS3 or the Wii. This means millions of people are happy to pay for Live Gold. Microsoft ask if they are willing to pay and millions say "yes".
I don't feel ripped off because I like to play games such as Halo3 and Gears of War 2 online. I have lots of friends that also like to play online, therefore I am willing to pay £40 a year.
Would I prefer if it were free, like PSN and Nintendo Wi-Fi? Absolutely.
Do I feel I get value out of my Gold subscription though? Absolutely.
It's stupid to release this so close to Left 4 Dead 2's release. I am going to save my money and just wait for that.
@StingingVelvet
Yea M$ is charging for free internet, services that are oterwise completely free and all, but the way I see it XBL is more equivalent to an exclusive club. Don't fool yourself, most of that money goes directly into the pockets of the high name celebrities used to endorse the product, gaining exclusive rights to games, gaining multiplatform rights to games that were previously exclusive to other consoles, and the wealth of fluff all attached to XBL.
Granted the only thing up there that would truly matter to a hardcore gamer is the rights to games, and that could easily be funded by other revenue from M$. It would seem M$ is intent on the 360 pulling it's own weight in the company which, despite it's success, I doubt it has yet to prove.
In the end, I really just hope Sony or Nintendo don't follow M$ and start charging for online support. XBL may be worth the annual fee, but PSN gives me more than I paid for. Wish I could comment on Nintendo, but the last time I had reason to turn my Wii on was a few months back. Last I checked, Nintendo's online services are nothing special to talk about, but at least it's free(in it's defense).
Yea M$ is charging for free internet, services that are oterwise completely free and all, but the way I see it XBL is more equivalent to an exclusive club. Don't fool yourself, most of that money goes directly into the pockets of the high name celebrities used to endorse the product, gaining exclusive rights to games, gaining multiplatform rights to games that were previously exclusive to other consoles, and the wealth of fluff all attached to XBL.
Granted the only thing up there that would truly matter to a hardcore gamer is the rights to games, and that could easily be funded by other revenue from M$. It would seem M$ is intent on the 360 pulling it's own weight in the company which, despite it's success, I doubt it has yet to prove.
In the end, I really just hope Sony or Nintendo don't follow M$ and start charging for online support. XBL may be worth the annual fee, but PSN gives me more than I paid for. Wish I could comment on Nintendo, but the last time I had reason to turn my Wii on was a few months back. Last I checked, Nintendo's online services are nothing special to talk about, but at least it's free(in it's defense).
@ CaptainBus
Industry leader in console online gaming I can get behind, not just because of higher numbers buy because they brough features to console, both this generation and last, that did not exist there before.
Of course, they monetized and took a greater amount of control over all of them than ever seen on PC, but console gamers seem to like the closed, controlled and restricted enviornment for ease of use reasons, so who can blame them.
My issue isn't really with MS, to be honest. They saw a massive opportunity and they took it, and that is what business is supposed to do. My problem is with the massive amount of people paying for something that should be free and allowing MS to charge for it in the first place. You admit this is because you want to play Gears 2 and Halo 3 online, and no offense but that just proves my point... as a gaming culture, we are very spoiled and can't live without the next hot game, or next hot title, even if it means sacrificing principles.
As a PC gamer with a PS3, there are only 3-4 titles on the Xbox 360 I want and cannot play, and it sucks not having them, but I deal without it to avoid supporting Microsoft and their Xbox Live fiat.
Industry leader in console online gaming I can get behind, not just because of higher numbers buy because they brough features to console, both this generation and last, that did not exist there before.
Of course, they monetized and took a greater amount of control over all of them than ever seen on PC, but console gamers seem to like the closed, controlled and restricted enviornment for ease of use reasons, so who can blame them.
My issue isn't really with MS, to be honest. They saw a massive opportunity and they took it, and that is what business is supposed to do. My problem is with the massive amount of people paying for something that should be free and allowing MS to charge for it in the first place. You admit this is because you want to play Gears 2 and Halo 3 online, and no offense but that just proves my point... as a gaming culture, we are very spoiled and can't live without the next hot game, or next hot title, even if it means sacrificing principles.
As a PC gamer with a PS3, there are only 3-4 titles on the Xbox 360 I want and cannot play, and it sucks not having them, but I deal without it to avoid supporting Microsoft and their Xbox Live fiat.
@StingingVelvet
Absolutely no offense taken. I completely understand your objection to XBox Live Gold subscription and can see why it is an obstacle to purchase for many learned gamers who know they can get perfectly good online gaming for free elsewhere. If I wasn't such a big fan of many of the 360 exclusive titles and if it wasn't for the fact that all my gaming friends have 360s then I would be equally hesitant.
I would like to think that Microsoft will take a look at new figures coming through on PS3 uptake in Japan and further afield thanks to the new promotional campaign, repricing, and slimline design, and consider dropping the XBox Live Gold charge in order to regain some distance.
They would have to consider whether or not this would convert into enough sales to warrant the revenue lost from abandoning Gold subscription fees, however.
Absolutely no offense taken. I completely understand your objection to XBox Live Gold subscription and can see why it is an obstacle to purchase for many learned gamers who know they can get perfectly good online gaming for free elsewhere. If I wasn't such a big fan of many of the 360 exclusive titles and if it wasn't for the fact that all my gaming friends have 360s then I would be equally hesitant.
I would like to think that Microsoft will take a look at new figures coming through on PS3 uptake in Japan and further afield thanks to the new promotional campaign, repricing, and slimline design, and consider dropping the XBox Live Gold charge in order to regain some distance.
They would have to consider whether or not this would convert into enough sales to warrant the revenue lost from abandoning Gold subscription fees, however.
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