When I first heard that No More Heroes was coming to the PS3/360, I was totally shocked. Porting a two-year-old Wii game to HD consoles? It's ludicrous, unheard of, and potentially brilliant. While I'm not totally convinced that NMH will be better for the swap between motion controls and HD graphics, I still want the game to sell well on the PS3/360. If this port goes on to outsell the 500,000-700,000 copies that the Wii original sold worldwide, I'd be ecstatic.
Now, before you going calling me a Wii-hating HD fanboy, hold your horses. Take another look at the title of this post. Look at a few of my other blogs. Though I'm not the biggest fan of Nintendo of America, the Wii is actually my favorite console of this generation so far.
So, if I like the Wii so much, why am I excited that NMH is "defecting" to high definition consoles? Well, because from where I stand, the success of the game on the PS3/360 could signal the final victory for the "Wii philosophy," which is the reason I like the Wii so much in the first place.
Hit the jump and I'll explain.
Okay, so what's the "Wii philosophy" that I'm talking about? Well, from my perspective, it's about four things -- the four things that really separate the Wii from the PS3/360:
1) Motion controls (and the mainstream-accessible games that utilize them);
2) Low-priced console and games;
3) Personalized avatar creation;
4) Low-budget, "punk rock" games.
The PS3 and 360 have already adopted three out of four of these three ideas. Both the PS3 and the 360 will have motion controllers next year. Both have seen $200-$300 price drops since they first launched. Both have their own avatar creation systems. There's just one part of the Wii's appeal that they still lack.
Which brings us to No More Heroes.
The tale of No More Heroes is a rags-to-riches success story of one of the industry's biggest outsiders, and of hardcore gaming on a console that many said was just for kids and old people. It also may be the pinnacle of modern "punk rock" gaming. By "punk," I mean the combination of an intense enthusiasm for expressing ideas that overcomes any prioritization of profit. For instance, Blind Lemon Jefferson didn't know that he'd ever become world-famous for singing on his porch about feeling miserable. The Ramones probably never guessed that four ugly guys with bad haircuts who can barely play their instruments would go on to be one of the most popular rock groups on the planet. NWA rapped about being "gangsta" long before anyone ever turned a profit from it. These are just three of the original "punk rockers." These are the guys that put themselves out there with no reason to believe they could succeed, with little to no money to back them up. They didn't do what they did because they thought they'd get rich and famous; they did it because they meant it.
For a game developer, it's the same thing. To be punk rock, they have to be so overwhelmed with excitement over the game they're working on that they can't even see anything other than their creative vision. Developers with this attitude almost always make "flawed" games, but that's usually because of the tunnel vision that comes from following your creative path with total abandon. The path also blinds you to whether what you're doing is going to make you any money, or if you have the money to make the game in the first place. Ken Levine, Shigesato Itoi, Will Wright, Keita Takahashi, Tim Schafer, and, of course, Suda 51 are all examples of game developers that have made games under these conditions, and have at least one truly punk rock game under their belt.
For me, though, No More Heroes is the epitome of all that, at least for games in this "era." Like The Ramones, No More Heroes isn't going to win anyone over with its good looks. About half the time, No More Heroes looks like a Dreamcast game, something that is traditionally a guaranteed death sentence for sales (note: this was also true for actual Dreamcast games). No More Heroes also features an open world that is totally barren and uneventful, which works in stark contrast to the stuff found in big sellers like the GTA series. More so, No More Heroes stars one of the least conventional game protagonists of all time: a skinny, horny, lonely, videogame/anime-loving young man who lives with alone with his cat. The only messages on his answering machine are from mean-spirited employers, or the video store that he owes money to for un-returned porno tapes.
Couple all that with the amount of truly "inappropriate," borderline insane content packed in the game, and you have a package that's about as punk rock as it gets. I could get into detail, but I better stop myself now, as I could easily go on and on about the game for pages and pages. If you want to know more, though, check out one of the many well-written posts here on Dtoid that focus on the game. It's really the kind of game that people like to write about just as much as they like to play.
So yeah, No More Heroes was one of the first, and best, punk rock games to hit the Wii. It has outsold other games with much higher budgets and bigger publishers (Dead Space Extraction and The Conduit, for example) without online play, mainstream-friendly controls, or proven successful tropes like zombies, World War II, or car theft. It also outsold every other game Suda 51 ever produced, including several games for the ever-popular PS1 and PS2. With the success of NMH came many other punk rock Wii exclusives: games like Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Mushroom Men, MadWorld, Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop, House of the Dead: Overkill, Little King's Story, A Boy and His Blob, the Bit.Trip series, and many others. Some of them made money, and some of them didn't, but that doesn't even really matter. The point is that they still were permitted to come into existence, and that's something that could have only happened on the Wii.
Sadly, the PS3/360 just don't have as many games of this type in their console libraries. Metal Gear Solid 4 certainly has its moments, as do download-only titles like Noby Noby Boy, Castle Crashers and Braid, but even they are pretty conventional when compared to games like MadWorld and No More Heroes. PS3/360 games just cost a lot more to make than Wii games -- by some reckoning, three to five times more. Publishers can't take as many punk rock risks on the high-def consoles; one failed HD game could put them out of business. They have to play it safe by pleasing the lowest common denominator with space marines and Hollywood-style set pieces, or else they just won't survive.
At least, that's what I used to think before I saw screenshots of No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise on the PS3/360. The game has made me start to think that non-conventional, disc-based games might be able to make it in the HD world.
Though the game definitely isn't a straight port, the changes made to the graphics surely look low-budget. Of course the jaggies are gone, and there seems to be a shiny filter on everything now, but both are probably due to work being done by the PS3/360 hardware, and they likely didn't cost the developers anything extra to implement. Other than that, Travis's coat now has real wrinkles, and... yeah, that's it. That's all I see for visual improvements in No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise -- filters, resolution, and coat wrinkles. Coat wrinkles and resolution aside, I actually think No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle looks a little more expensive than No More Heroes HD. Just take a look at this comparison shot and see for yourself (in case you can't tell, the Wii game is on the left) .
Thing is, that's all good news. That's a sign that a developer can make a game for the PS3/360 that essentially costs as much to make as a low-budget Wii game, and still still find a publisher for it (well, maybe). That's a sign that not every PS3/360 game has to have online play or look like Uncharted 2 or Resident Evil 5 in order to get published.
That is, of course, if No More Heroes HD actually sells.
Best case scenario, No More Heroes: Heroes' Paradise makes good money on the PS3/360, and developers think to make low-budget up-ports of other punk rock Wii games. These up-ports also make money, so from there, developers actually start making original punk rock games for the PS3/360. Not PSN/XLBA games, I'm talking about real retail games; games that aren't about criminals/soldiers/space marines/strippers/bounty hunters. I'm talking about retail games that aren't all firmly embedded in the uncanny valley. When was the last time you saw a game like that on the PS3/360? (And no, 3D Dot Heroes doesn't count. Not until I play it, anyway.)
Sure, if punk rock gaming spreads across all consoles, the Wii console will be at a loss for the diminished number of exclusives. In the ways that count, that's still a success for the console. It's like they say in politics: winning the election is meaningless if you don't get the other party to start doing things your way. To convert the PS3/360 into HD Wii clones is the real sign that the console has "won" the console war." Sales are just a means to that end.
Contest:
4:00 PM on 11.23.2009
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"in case you can't tell, the Wii game is on the left"
OH. I could tell!
Also, these "punk rawk niche/not selling well" games have been around for ages: the PS2 was a haven for them (Godhand's Gene reminds me a lot of Travis Touchdown), and Clover reminds me a bit of Suda.
i think by now people already know you to be a wii fanboy.
also, i laughed at "Personalized avatar creation", but "puck rock games" almost made me fall off my seat. lol @ wii.
Oddly enough with the exception of the somewhat optional job minigames, this and Mario Galaxy are two of the most minimalist motion games. I really enjoyed something like MadWorld, but it was too much motion. This was a game that struck a rather comfortable balence.
And as a fellow Holmes myself, I must agree with Johnathan. This is another sign that the Wii is working. The avatars and motion controllers were the biggest indicators and even if all the great Wii games get ported to the PS3, I'll still feel proud knowing I was one of the people who stuck with the wii in its roughest hours and supported these kinds of games. The Wii has more than fallen in the tech-race of this generation, but it's definitely the Dreamcast of this generation... sorta in reverse... but it was (potentially) the company's swan song system, the controller tried a different approach, it's stuck between two generations hardware wise, and the good games on the system are some of the best games in history. We may hate it now, but in 10 years when gaming has changed, we're gonna look back fondly on the Wii. Look back fondly and then pop in Mario Galaxy, No More Heroes, Muramasa, Bit.Trip, and so many other games, and realize we looked a gift horse in the mouth.
Little King's Story has one of the best controller schemes on the Wii (no bullshit motion whatsoever: not even a whimper).
I enjoyed NMH, but I'd hardly call it "minimalist waggling". There isn't anything I'm going to miss other than picking up the phone for the first time.
@ Magnalon- Yeah, as you may know, Suda 51 worked on God Hand, which is probably why Gene reminds you of Travis. And I didn't mean to imply that the Wii was the best console for punk games ever, it just is for right now. The PS1, Dreamcast, PS2, and Gamecube definitely had their fair share as well.
The Dreamcast "punk" games: now those were the shit :D
The Dreamcast "punk" games: now those were the shit :D. I assume Jet Grind/Set Radio counts.
I know that I instantly got No More Heroes for Wii because of it's style, but I stuck around due to it's great gameplay. I still talk about it to this day, even when people have no clue that something so zany existed.
and we really are forgetting about the nintendo ds, it has a lot of hardcore games, much of them hasnt been released in america, but in japan there are a LOT
But, isn't NMH becoming a HD franchise now??
Let's not add in the fact that this game is probably paying for No More Heroes 3 hell even No More Heroes 2 could be influenced by a sudden change in their bank accounts. I think that if people would stop thinking about what console it's on, who making it and even themselves and just thought about what's best for the game then everyone would surely agree.
If you really cared about No More Heroes at all then you can't possibly be against this.
I think this kind of indie development is the future, since mainstream game companies keep focusing on larger and larger mainstream groups for success, leaving the niche gamer to wander alone.
I really like the concept you assert of "Punk rock games". Its says something both about the scope and breadth of the games you highlight for the Wii. Less about an online event experience and more about being something for just long enough where its consumed, and then mulled about later. I haven't played MadWorld since I beat it, but it doesn't feel any less valuable because of it. Its like a 'zine of cool art and story that you read dug and leave in a cardboard box under your bed.
I still think the Wii would do well to have a long form experience on it, like a Dragon Age or Fallout 3. But, I must say the experience of Wii gaming, at its best, is uniquely Punk Rock, if not restated as "Short form, high value".
I most definitively agree, the fact that i can actually get variety, even through the storms of shovelware, is why i like my wii. Punk-Rock games are just about the only games i like anymore.
And the niche nature of these games does not, in my mind, make them emblematic of the Wii. If anything, they represent glaring anomalies in that platform's library, not the inverse.
+1
I think the only reason I still have a Wii is for the "punk rock" games (and Metroid: Other M and FFCC: Crystal Bearers) because you know that they're going to be amazing little games (like Mushroom Men). I'm hoping NMH HD does sell and lead to HD ports or HD "punk rock" games, because if anything, it means the smaller developers that make them get some money flowing.
I'll stick to my No More Heroes 2 on the system it belongs to.
The HD version won't sell. If people really wanted it, they already would have bought it and the retards saying "I really want the game but refuse to own a Wii" definitely won't buy it new on 360 or PS3. They'll sit and wait for it to drop in price and become cheap and ruin the whole thing.
Well that's just a quantity value: How many good games does this console have. And certainly, shovelware must make a profit, because it keeps happening. Why? Because its all low budget. It cost me $5 to make this crappy game, and enough people are buying it to make a profit. Its a lose of quality, but yes, a win for money.
What you find in the good "punk" stuff is not only a lower budget, but a higher level of quality, built not on horsepower, but on simple fun concept execution. Sure they're not making Halo numbers, but it also didn't cost Halo numbers to produce.
And if you considering an economy that shuts down big budget game studios, gaming has the chance to thrive on this low budget / quality concept execution style philosophy.
That's my angle, anyway
really? when i play mw2, for example, i can't help but notice that the controls feel VERY antiquated. i can't stand playing 3d games via the old standard controllers anymore. ps3 controls make me feel like it's '96 all over again. not a good thing.
as for nmh hd, i see what you're saying, jonathan. if this game is a hit, however, a drop in the amount of "punk" wii titles will obviously take a hit. as i prefer gaming on my nintendo console, i hope that's not the case. if all the devs start pushing titles to ps3 because of the sony wiimote, i'm going to completely lose it. in short, i have mixed feelings about this title.
I'd love to see the 360/PS3 port sell just as well if not more than the Wii version. Unfortunately, taking out motion control is like taking the heart out of the game. That's not to say that the game won't be fun but the game's use of the Wii controls (as well as the Wii speaker) made it something special.
NMH is a misunderstood game. Some of its "flaws" are actually intentional satire; and while playing a satire isn't always as fun as playing, say, an "actual game", it makes for a more unique experience overall.
The dialogue brings this in over the top. It's a perfect parody of self-important anime and JRPG cliches.
Killer 7 left me a little underwhelmed, but NMH is a true gamepunk masterpiece.
Nice!
Seriously? It's not like lightgun games and Dead Rising/zombie games didn't exist before the Wii. And those are just the obvious examples. Odin Sphere and Grim Grimoire were on the PS2, Killer 7 was on the PS2 and GC, Little King's Story is strongly like Pikmin and that was on the GC, God Hand was on the PS2, A Boy and His Blob was on the NES. At what point could the games you mentioned have only come into existence on the Wii?
And how in the fuck is Noby Noby Boy conventional compared to Madworld and No More Heroes? Madworld's art style is what makes it stand out and compared to Braid and NNB it's pretty conventional. If NMH Paradise sells it will undermine a lot of 3rd party support for the Wii and the developers that can afford to work on the HD consoles may jump ship. You seem to have created some sort of weird consolation for yourself by saying that it's all because of the Wii and its philosophy that you made up. This isn't anything against the Wii, just a completely retarded (Wiitarded?) article from a Nintendo fanboy.
I'm not taking issue with the idea of low budget games making good amounts of money, or that they can be high quality. I'm taking issue with the inane argument that the Wii, possibly the most commercialized of all three consoles this gen, is being touted as the last bastion of "punk rock gaming." I also take issue with the fact that "punk rock gaming" as an idea makes little to no sense where even NMH, which is a RELATIVELY low budget production is still, get this: a product.
You have to be extremely naive and have an idealized view of what the gaming industry is all about if you think NMH, or any game for that matter, is produced out of a pure artistic pursuit. Not to mention, it's ludicrous to compare such a product to music groups like the Ramones, of all things, when you consider the amounts of money involved. How much do you think it cost them to create their punk rock art? Money for instruments and... yep, that's pretty much it. MILLIONS go into the development of even the lowliest of studio-produced games like NMH.
For what it's worth, NMH is a pretty original game and I've been a fan of Suda's for a while. I just find this conversation to be pretty insulting to genuine indie game-makers who go on to greatness on a shoestring budget.
In the end, I just don't like the excessive amount of porting and sequels in this industry in the first place, so maybe I'm not the person to talk to regardless.
The music of the Ramones is, or became, as much of a product as No More Heroes. At anyrate, I think we all realize these games are to some extent made because somebody wants them and someone will profit from it. But what's fundamentally different about NMH/SUDA is the style and design decisions are very much not what you get from market research and going for largest target audience. Regardless of pay/ review chain, wouldn't you agree that there's a certain level of autuerism at work with the developers named in John Holmes' article? Its about that autuerism and the spirit of the development that differentiates from a Halo/MW2's inception, execution and presence.
Its a matter of scope. Would you assert that the budget for NMH comes anywhere close to Halo 3? That's the difference we're talking about. Sure is millions (maybe?), but I'd bet a farm that there are a considerable number of titles that have WAY larger budgets than NMH.
Me? I absolutely loved NMH and I've always supported Suda 51's efforts, but after reading an interview (can't find it now, but if someone has a link, I'd appreciate it) where he specifically stated he didn't want to bring NMH to the 360/PS3 but in fact wanted to make a completely new game for the consoles, I'm rather discouraged from buying it. Sure, if Suda 51 released an awesome new IP for the 360/PS3, I'd totally buy it, but a port that he himself isn't even that excited about? I'll pass.