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Why Heavy Rain proves Ebert right photo

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"Video games by their nature require player choices, which is the opposite of the strategy of serious film and literature, which requires authorial control."

Roger Ebert said this. He is correct.

Now, that's not enough reason to discount an entire medium as being incapable of producing "high art" -- it might be true if games were nothing more than yet another linear storytelling medium, though they obviously aren't -- but it goes a hell of a long way in explaining why Heavy Rain has been so divisive.

During an average Heavy Rain playthrough, two forces constantly compete over control of the characters: the player, who wants to see interesting things and feel like his input actually matters to the story, and the actual characters, who simply want to be true to themselves.

This is what Ebert was talking about. This is why, for many, Heavy Rain just doesn't work.

(Spoilers for the film Se7en, and Heavy Rain. Joseph Leray gave me the idea for this editorial.)

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Think back to the movie Se7en. Remember the ending? Not the big, shocking, oh-god-that's-so-gruesome-but-kinda-cool twist, but the scene that directly follows it.

Detective Mills, having lost everything dear to him, has to decide John Doe's fate. He desperately wants to avenge the death of his wife, but Somerset has warned him: John Doe wants you to kill him. He wants you to be overcome by Wrath.

What if we could choose whether or not Mills should pull the trigger? What if, as Heavy Rain so often does, we were allowed to decide not only what Mills should do, but subsequently who he is as a person, and what the overall theme of the film should be?

On the one hand, that'd be a satisfyingly difficult choice to make, in the context of a BioWare RPG or whathaveyou. No clear "right" answer. Could be a pretty suspenseful moment of contemplation for the player.

On the other hand, Mills is already his own character: he went through the entire film getting into arguments and beating up paparazzi. If the player made Mills put his gun down and let John Doe rot in prison, it'd be wildly inaccurate with his character, and it'd effectively demolish the thematic punch of the scene's true outcome. Se7en is (amongst other things) about the ubiquitousness of human evil, and how we can't truly separate ourselves from it. If Mills lets John Doe live, it becomes a story about a Really Good Cop triumphing over a Really Evil Guy.

ere

It'd be ludicrous to let the audience choose what Mills should do. Why, then, are we allowed to do exactly that with all four of Heavy Rain's protagonists?

For the vast majority of Heavy Rain, I, as the player, have only two options: I can force the characters to do things that they wouldn't normally do for my entertainment, or I can feel useless.

Take the "romance" scene between Ethan and Madison later in the game. Madison wants to have sex with Ethan, but Ethan -- possibly having just cut off his pinky finger, run through power lines, crawled over broken glass, and earned a concussion from a car crash -- says that "saving Shaun is the only thing that matters." Madison goes in for the kiss. The player has a choice to make: do you let Madison kiss Ethan, or do you make Ethan refuse?

Even ignoring the fact that Ethan specifically tells Madison nothing matters apart from saving Shaun -- he doesn't say "nothing, apart from me getting my freak on" -- this is a guy who has gone through immeasurable mental and physical trauma to save his son (unless you made Ethan refuse to complete any of the trials, in which case I'd have to ask why you're even playing the game). This is a guy who knows that every wasted second brings his son closer and closer to death. Under no circumstances would it make any sense for this guy to have sex with Madison.

But if you're curious about how the sex scene will play out, or if you have some personal interest in getting these two characters to screw regardless of their motivations, you can force Ethan to have sex with her. Congrats: you get to watch a sex scene and a murder at the same time, as Ethan's true character is obliterated before your eyes. Ebert proves himself right: your ability to control the story has resulted in a bad story.

erer

But what if, when Madison moves in to kiss Ethan, you refuse her? What if, understanding Ethan's nature, you push Madison away? Great -- you've maintained the integrity of the story and its characters, but you've also reduced the game to nothing more than a finicky DVD which must be unpaused every few minutes. If Ethan's character is already pretty well set in stone and you're just going through the motions you would expect him to go through, then why are you involved at all? If your personal interaction consists of nothing more than giving up your identity and making a character do something he would normally do anyway, then what differentiates your experience from that of watching a film? Your input no longer matters.

Heavy Rain's player/avatar dissonance is even more pronounced when the player and the character desire different things. Say you're interested in getting the "best" ending, because you really want the Four Heroes trophy. Since you assume that getting to Ethan's son is the best way of assuring Ethan survives, you successfully complete the first four trials without difficulty.

Upon reaching the fifth trial, however, you find yourself in a pickle: the only way to get the final piece of the address is to force Ethan to drink poison, which will absolutely, positively kill him in sixty minutes (if you've already completed the game, please try to ignore the fact that it absolutely, positively does not). You want Ethan to survive so you can get that Four Heroes trophy, so you decide not to have Ethan drink the poison. But wait: you just created a version of Ethan Mars who is willing to endure intense physical torment and commit murder to save his son...but who won't drink some poison to completely ensure Shaun's survival? That doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't accept that if you saw an otherwise-consistent character do that in a film, would you?

And don't even get me started on how your decisions, combined with that stupid plot twist, can turn Scott Shelby into even more of a laughably inconsistent character than he already is (so, you'll drown kids to test their fathers, but you won't let a would-be murderer die of a heart attack?).

ere

"But," you might say, "what about a game like Half-Life 2? That's a linear story, but you still have the freedom to dramatically sabotage it. You can spend the entire prologue throwing milk cartons at the residents of City 17, if you really want to. How is that any different?"

You can definitely sabotage Half-Life 2 if you wish, but the alternative to "sabotage the story" is not "get bored and feel useless." While you don't have any input over the direction of HL2's story, you still have a personal reason to keep playing: the action sections that comprise the majority of the game are fun enough that even if you don't give two shits about Alyx Vance, your input still feels relevant.

If you wanna sabotage HL2's story, you can, but you'll still have some fun with the shooty-shooty stuff. If you don't sabotage HL2's story, then the shooty-shooty stuff just feels more meaningful. It's an imperfect combination of story and gameplay, but the failure of one part doesn't destroy the entire experience. As Heavy Rain consists of nothing beyond some QTEs and a boatload of story decisions, it's got nothing to fall back on if the player decides to ruin the story by screwing with the characters.

Ebert says player choice can ruin a story. If we're talking about purely player-driven narrative, he's wrong: Boatmurdered, Alice & Kev, and Permanent Death prove there is a unique and beautiful power in giving the player some freedom to make their own individually meaningful stories, rather than just passively absorbing a pre-baked experience crafted by someone else. To claim that pre-baked experiences are inherently more meaningful than player-created ones is nonsense.

If we're talking about forcing the player through a totally linear story à la Half-Life 2, he's right, but perhaps not right enough to justify dismissal of the entire medium. Many players who don't sabotage story games find them uniquely compelling. There's something to be said for allowing the player to be the protagonist of a story rather than a passive witness, sabotage possibilities be damned.

ere

If we apply his line of thinking to "interactive movies" such as Heavy Rain, however, Ebert is totally on the money.

The characters of Heavy Rain are not blank slates, or characters whose identities we fill in through our own decisions -- they aren't like Gordon Freeman or Commander Shepard. They're characters with existing histories and personalities. By granting us control over these characters, the player is forced into an awkward position of half-agency: their desires intermingle with our own, forcing us to either relinquish our own sense of control and relevance, or actively participate in a story populated by characters who make ridiculous and self-defeating decisions.

As courageous as Heavy Rain is, and as suspenseful as some of its later QTEs are (three cheers for potentially permanent protagonist death! A fourth cheer for alliteration!), the player's ability to manipulate the behavior of its characters actively and irreversibly harm the story. You can shake your fist at Ebert for as long as you want, but it won't change the fact that he made a good point -- and that Heavy Rain proves it true.








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171 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Spykron's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:05
Spykron
But it works pretty damn well in the mass effect games. so HAH!

also, you NEED to marry half life 2. im not giving you any other options.
NateT's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:08
NateT
Thanks for the thougts Anthony. I really enjoyed the read.
Volgin13's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:11
Volgin13
Hmm...... Sounds like Heavy Rain is something I definately cannot play then. Because that would drive me nuts.
jymkata's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:11
jymkata
How about this;
When a choice comes up, it should be presented as something that would actually make the character think, so there's no longer a 'right' answer and a 'this is me, fixing all the conflict' answer. That way it can still be the player who makes the choice (as opposed to the character) but it doesn't feel too disruptive.
That is, to the character, both choices are equally valid, so over the course of the game the character begins to mirror the player, in terms of how they react to the problems. Basically, the problem at the moment is that if a character has too much of a backstory, he should react in a certain way, so we need more blank slates for this to work.
Oswald Leon's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:12
Oswald Leon
This game along with "The Last Guardian" was the reason I bought a PS3 last month. This game is not only disappointing, but one of the most overrated game of the year!

Cons

Story/Dialogue: One word: Horrible. One would think a game that depends so strongly on story, characters and dialogue, that it would be good. I'm not expecting Kafka, Dostoevsky or Camus quality here, but this is not even "Silent Hill :Shattered Memories","Uncharted 2", "Bioshock" or "Mass Effect" quality. Think of every cliché found in shows like: "Law and Order" or "CSI", It has them all and more. For example, there is a scene where the father is looking for his son, he finally realizes he can't find him. So, he walks to the middle of the streets, gets down on his knees and raises his arms out and screams his name while the rain is dripping down his face. This was a very lol moment. The story really is bad, and I am astonished at gamers reaction to it. Anyone who thinks this game has a deep, emotional and intellectual story really have to go out and get a book because this is laughably bad, Cringe worthy actually. Video game stories have been improving in the last ten years, and this game sets it back to 1999. This game is for people who think they are "intellectual" or "mature", but in all reality, if anybody have some braincells they can see the mess the story, dialogue and characters are. It fails as a movie and fails as a game, and most importantly it fails in trying to be artistic.

Voice Acting: It's all over the place. sometimes the voice acting is so bad it's distracting, it really pulls you out of the immersion the game offers. Again, why would a game that depends on story have bad voice acting? I tried switching the language track. I get the same results in French and Spanish.

Control: Control? The few times you get to "control" your character is horrible. Everyone moves like a tank, and one would think the developers wanted good controls to keep you immersed in the game. Once you start walking straight into a wall for the tenth time, you tend to get out of the immersion this game is trying to achieve, and no you do not get use to it.

Pros

Music: Very good. Dark, moody and atmospheric. Perfect for the game subject matter.

Don't want a shooter or another FPS game? Support real games with great controls and a great story that's original and fun! get "Silent Hill: Shattered Memories" I am not a "fanboy" of any company. I love and respect all, but I love and respect games even more, Please support great games that do something different...That's actually good. I'm assuming people who purchase "Heavy Rain" are for something different, but I hope gamers will realize what is hype and what is good. "Shattered Memories" is ART, not "Heavy Rain"
Volgin13's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:12
Volgin13
What about FarCry 2?
Animated Toupee's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:14
Animated Toupee
This is a really fascinating editorial. After just watching about an hour or so of Heavy Rain, and reading this, I can't say I disagree - but on the other hand, I think the game is a highly interesting experience. You're right - it proves Ebert's quote correct. I don't think it discounts video games as a medium - just further solidifies that they are their own thing and should be judged in that spectrum. Heavy Rain does try to blur that line, but I can't help in feeling it's something of a "next gen" adventure game - like "Deja Vu" but with cinematic visuals instead of text. It's highly flawed, in the sense that your desires and the character's desires can't be in sync, and if they are, what's the point? But I still think there is some merit in this idea. At least enough to write some interesting essays like this one on, and perhaps explore in other ways in the future.
fulldamage's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:17
fulldamage
I don't always* agree with your observations, but I always enjoy the questions you put forward. This is a really insightful look at what must have been one of the core difficulties in putting together a game like Heavy Rain. Building a good story and building a good INTERACTIVE story are two different goals, requiring different approaches. It can get confusing because some story-telling techniques work well in both mediums, while others don't -- this leads us to want to evaluate works from both mediums in similar ways, which isn't always fair.
jawshoeuh's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:17
jawshoeuh
interesting read... I'm real curious to play this game.
airbagtelex's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:21
airbagtelex
Wow that just blew my mind, nice read; it makes total sense.

Since it would be really difficult from a developer's POV to make a game that let you create your character's personality and plotline, maybe they could have choices that were still plausable for that particular character's personality but would still carry a heavy weight on the outcome of the story. This way, it wouldn't be totally unrealistic, but the player would still have a choice.
Corduroy Turtle's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:22
Corduroy Turtle
@Oswald Leon

It's clearly not a game made for everyone. I have little to no interest in it but a friend of mine can't put it down.
GodofWar86's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:24
GodofWar86
It is your opinion and you are entitled to it but I think you should expand your horizons I think Heavy Rain is something the gaming industry needs desperately games seem like clones of each other, getting something different is great.

Heavy Rain in my opinion is a very significant game for the industry and I game more games take lessons from the likes of Mass Effect and Heavy Rain. They are not everybodies cup of tea but in a world of game clones its nice to see something different.
AnonEmoose's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:25
AnonEmoose
*sigh*

I see the words "plot holes" and "heavy rain" together, and I can only conclude that you haven't played it yourself, or enough to understand that there aren't any.
AngryAvatar's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:27
AngryAvatar
"Are video games art?" is a argument started by snobs and kept alive by people lacking the wisdom to ignore them.
Kraid's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:27
Kraid
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here Anthony;

If we compare Ebert argument and you agreeing with him that players are ultimately responsable for the quality of the experience. Why did my game killed Ethan when I drank the poison , saved Shawn , didn't died from the poison because it was fake and got that fucking stupid police execution when I thought I had cleared all the game's obstacles to keep everyone alive.

This scene alone made me upset at the game. It punished me at the very end for not surrendering to Blake during the Motel escape scene. I did all the trials , saved Shawn and took the right paths to save the goddamn kid and Heavy Rain congratulates me with a curtain of bullets and an orphan.

Blake was an asshole but seriously that scene alone was not even triggered by the player. The game decided that it was obligatory for Ethan to die without my intervention while on the other hand I did my best to keep him alive all thorought the game in MANY life/death sequences.

This is total bullshit.

also , I liked the game despite my ending.
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:27
Zeik56
I can't say I agree with some of your points. The first time I played Heavy Rain I made Ethan out to be a good dad who just wanted to do good for his son. Early on I made sure he fed Shaun meals on time, made him do his homework, and even let him stay up a little late to watch cartoons. Once Shaun disappeared all Ethan wanted to do was save his son, that's all he cared about, so he do just about anything to save him. (Except kill the drug dealer.) When I got to the scene with Ethan and Madison I felt that spending time making out with Madison would go against Ethan's character, so I didn't and went on with the game, and eventually saved Shaun.

However, I then played the game again. This time I played Ethan as fairly different character. He ignored Shaun and didn't feed him, he sat around moping upstairs watching old family videos and listening to depressing music while sitting on his bed, and he also drank heavily. He didn't make Shaun do his homework, and he forced him to go to bed before his normal bed time so he'd have some alone time. He ended up coming across as a much more broken man than the first time. When Shaun was kidnapped his attempts to save him felt like more of a chance of redemption on his part (to the point where he would even kill the drug dealer). But all that left him even more battered and vulnerable than he was before, so when Madison showed some affection toward him he accepted. His speech afterward where he claims he feels betrayed ended up fitting right in. The idea that even though he wanted to save his son but would still fall for a woman like Madison after caring for him made just as much sense as the Ethan that only cared about saving his son.

That being said, I will agree with what you said about Shelby's character. I didn't like that plot twist much at all. It did not make any sense given the way I played the character throughout the game (or even often times that I didn't have control over what he said/thought), but I think that was less an issue with choices screwing up the narrative and more an issue with a poor thought out plot twist.
Freequebec86's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:28
Freequebec86
LOL !

Scott Shelby was obvious (after player it) when you see his first met up with the "Freebie" girl.

he just want the letter and seem piss off!

Second time they are in their appartement, he almost freak out, when the girl talk about to search who got a Old Text Machine + Orikami book. She said that, when SHE SAW A ORIGAMI BOOK ON THE TABLE !!!!!


Yeah, the sex scene after a Heart breaking kill ( even if the guy got a shotgun ) was weird. I don't think if you said no, the story is mess up about the two.

I don't find the story to be bad at all ! Some plot hole ( ethan black out ).


BUT the plot hole are FOR confusing you ! I suspected almost every one on the game ! 1st Ethan, 2nd Blake ( hate that guy xD ), Madison, Scott, The son of the rich man. The rich man.

DAMN, it was so nice.


I see that american, that played on English, didn't all get into the story.

I tried one time to put it in english, and YES, the translation is BAD.

But in French ( original language ), it's SOOOOOOOOOOO F*CKING NICE !!!!

Maybe the translate just turned off too much people.



FIRST GAME, that i cried so much... 3 times ! SO MUCH NICE DIALOGUE.


Never felt so much emotion on a game, even never really had emotion during playing a game except laugh or "yeah success" or "damn it's hard".

Just some movie made me cried, and this game make me fell emotion like never before !!



And last thing, about the poison drink OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!! How can you think ( I will die before reaching Shawn )

That's so STUPID, the master ( Scott ) always was fair in his games ( always tell the real rules and give letter at the end ). Why he would mess it up at the end??


I suspect Anthony Burch to just rushed the game, and looking for trophy. The "drink poison" comment lost all credibility for me lol.

I was just sad because he thought : I would save my son and die after?

I didn't want to see that at all.


I loved this game so much ! ARI are the best glasses ever ( the Falls theme is so COOL )
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:31
Zeik56
"This scene alone made me upset at the game. It punished me at the very end for not surrendering to Blake during the Motel escape scene. I did all the trials , saved Shawn and took the right paths to save the goddamn kid and Heavy Rain congratulates me with a curtain of bullets and an orphan."

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with surrendering to Blake, I believe that scene happened because Madison wasn't there. I didn't surrender to Blake and got everyone to the right scene at the end and everyone made it out alive. (Well, except Shelby.)
SansJason's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:33
SansJason
I love Heavy Rain and I would argue every point in this article if it wouldn't make me look like an idiot. Instead, I just want to try to address what could be my fundamental disagreement: if Mills hadn't shot Doe, it wouldn't be incongruous, it would be a movie about redemption. Somerset would have had enough of an influence on Mills to cool him, or he would have been humbled by the pointlessness of murder after the death of his wife, or he just could have realized that killing Doe would mean Doe won and levied his anger in the more intelligent way. I know Mills spends the movie being hot-tempered and impulsive, but character flaws needn't always result in a classically tragic ending - sometimes the story allows and invites them to be overcome.

The only scene in Heavy Rain that I think is unjustifiable is the sex scene, in fact. Otherwise, I never once felt that I was adhering to or straying from a sensible narrative in lieu of frivolous divergence. It is plausible that Ethan couldn't bring himself to complete the last two trials and it is plausible that Scott Shelby would display compassion (at no point does he act vindictive to his victims, he empathizes with them). I honestly think that the game is brilliant in the vast majority of the choices it gives, precisely tailored so that either outcome is reasonable, depending on the perspective of the player.

But I know that, particularly on Destructoid, a voice praising Heavy Rain will be more drowned out than Shaun Mars (ha ha ha), so whatever.
TheJesusNinja26's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:33
TheJesusNinja26
This game is great. Popped it in at 9:25pm, and had to force my self to go to bed at 3:30am, so I could get up at 7am to go to work. Love it!!!
acetated's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:34
acetated
Good read and very valid points. But I think its a little early to write-off the ability for people to make games that give us as many choices as Heavy Rain while also presenting an effective story.

For me, the very fact that you -could choose- allowed me to suspend my disbelief enough to enjoy the game. All games require a heavy dose of this kinda suspension, where Heavy Rain differs though is in its presentation. There were some glaring inconsistencies with the story and how I played it toward the end... especially with Scott. But the fact that I am given the power to -make the choice- is what sells it for me and allows me to overlook these plot holes.

I think this criticism is warranted and constructive enough for the next dev to attempt this kind of game to make improvements. But overall I think we, as a gaming community, should embrace this kind of creativity and ambition in making video games. Can you imagine, if this game sells well and establishes a profitable genre, how much better the games will be in 5 years? What about in 10 years? Oh man... makes my head hurt.

I don't think traditional gaming is going anywhere for a VERY, VERY long time, but I do hope that other companies will experiment and continue to evolve this type of game. And I don't think we should write Heavy Rain off as some one-time Hollywood-wanna be. There are enough valid mechanics in the game that could be ironed out and evolved over time to make something truly remarkable.

There -is- a perfect formula out there, we just haven't discovered it yet.
Anthony Burch's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:36
Anthony Burch
Kraid:
I don't think that happens to Ethan because you didn't surrender (if you DO surrender, you just get broken out a scene later). I think it happens if you don't have Madison or Jayden available to walk you out of the factory so the cops won't fire on you. Where were Jayden and Madison in your finale?
Kraid's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:36
Kraid
@Zeik56: That's why I'm replaying the game because I want to find out what triggered that BS uncontrolled scene. If I'm correct when you survive the office fire with Madison she doesn't show up for the rest of the game. I don't remember anyway.
DinosaurPizza's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:36
DinosaurPizza
So now we all have a reason to hate Heavy Rain.

Great article Anthony. It seems like an article that had to come from you, so I know you have the same intentions as the rest of us, but can see that Heavy Rain isn't helping, its hurting.
titopaul's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:37
titopaul
I thought serious film/literature demanded interpretation and at it's best, initiates depth and dialogue with the audience. Whether an imaginary character, of which the author creates and shows only a section, stays in character throughout the piece is kind of missing the point.
One's suspension of disbelief only goes so far, and may break upon the disruption of a consistent performance. But there are many ways of telling a story, some of which do not care about the cast, plot or even resolution.
When we read about The Allegory of the Cave, we aren't caught up in whether the trapped individual will have enough food, or why they are concerned not with the shadows, but more with escape, desperation and possibly revenge. The story instead becomes a container into which we poor our own thoughts and feelings and the canvas on which we add our own palette. A strong performance in a play, movie or book becomes a vehicle that get into.
For a videogame to be high art, it would get us to think, to question, to reflect. It may do this on the back of it's narrative, or the moral choices it presents, it may also do it on the metagames, on the friendships we build and initiate based on the paths we take. And just as some films and literature are considered high art, without being universally regard as such. So too, is it impossible for any one videogame to affect all. This is no flaw.
The real flaw is to exile an entire medium of communication, simply because it does not fit in as nicely with one's world view.
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:37
Zeik56
"If I'm correct when you survive the office fire with Madison she doesn't show up for the rest of the game."

She shows up during the ending if she finds out where Shaun is held. You have to make sure you enter the password into the computer before Shelby shows up.
Tuxy79's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:37
Tuxy79
Hmm, good read.
citaro's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:39
citaro
I have to play the Mass Effect card here- there are some interesting artifacts in the way it's presented (ie, it's not perfect yet), but in those games, Shepard is a persona you create. The overarching story is the same in broad strokes regardless of how you play, but your choices make your character different in subtle and meaningful ways. You are roleplaying in ways that many games don't encourage you to any more. Bioware constantly asks the player "Here's the scenario, now what do YOU do?" with meaningful outcomes in any case, and that's a powerful capacity that only games can have. Heavy Rain intrigues me, but I was worried when the head of the studio said it shouldn't be classified as a videogame. I guess he's right?

...also I just finished Mass Effect and I have such a crush on it still. The choices in the loyalty missions as well as some of the story missions towards the end... Superb. Gonna play again as my alt Shepard, a more cutthroat (and more male) character.
SansJason's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:39
SansJason
Kraid: I spent all of last night getting every ending (and the Platinum, yes) and I can tell you that Ethan died because your Madison failed in some way, either obtaining the address, escaping the fire or breaking through the police line. I evaded the cops at the motel in my first playthrough, but Madison was able to warn Ethan at the warehouse and they all made it out alive. Also, Anthony is mistaking the first possible arrest (after the lizard trial) with the second (On The Loose). If Ethan is arrested in the latter scene, he stays put.
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:40
Syn
Sounds like a Rev Rant, Rev!
Never had much interest in this game, don't have a PS3 anyway. Interesting nonetheless.
SBC Slam's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:40
SBC Slam
I didn't read the whole thing, because I'm not through with Heavy Rain yet, but what I did read, I feel, gave me enough insight to comment.

I think you're correct. It seems that it's the difference between who the characters want to be, and who we make them. It works well in Bioware games because we have direct control over nearly every action the character does, or comment the character makes. We craft their persona as the game progresses, and because of this we identify with the character on a very intimate level. So much so that if we choose to have them do or say something that runs contrary to all of the choices we've made up to that point, it still doesn't fall outside the purview of their character because we are able to rationalize (the good kind) the choice. Maybe somewhere in the game, for some reason, your Shepard had a change of heart. Maybe even though he's played the paragon the whole way through the game, the final decision seems to make more sense if you go renegade.

Heavy Rain, as you've said, doesn't do this. Ethan is Ethan. He isn't the Ethan I made, or the Ethan Anthony made. He's the same Ethan for everyone, and I think you're very correct when you say it creates a disconnect between what I make him do, vs. what he would do if I weren't in control.
Kraid's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:40
Kraid
@Anthony : ^^ Madison disapeared after the fire alive.

Jayden wasn't there because I stopped using is ARI glasses.... Yeah I guess the surrendering has nothing to do with it. But if I recall , I had proof on Madison side that Ethan was not the killer.
Ffordesoon's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:42
Ffordesoon
Goddamnit, why did I read this? It says SPOILER WARNING, but I did it anyway. I haven't completed the game, and yet I read this article. I'm dumb.

Also: SHELBY IS THE MOTHERFUCKING KILLER!?!?!?!?!? WHAT!? THAT IS THE MOST RIDICULOUS TWIST I HAVE EVER WHAT THE FUCK AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHH

You know what would have made PERFECT FUCKING SENSE? Ethan being the killer. Seeing as we're playing as this guy who we automatically presume is wrongfully accused, how is it not a shocking ENOUGH twist to have him be the killer? It would be just as shocking to have everything we've been shown throughout the game that causes us to suspect Ethan (and that, because we are familiar with the genre trappings of murder mysteries, causes us to suspect that he is being framed) be proven absolutely right.

Well, okay, it might not have made perfect sense. The trials might seem rather pointless if he were already the killer. Unless it's his other personality trying to convince him to accept that part of his identity or something. But that still feels weak from a narrative perspective...

I dunno. But Scott Shelby being the killer is just stupid. Or maybe I'll end up thinking it isn't, depending on how the game presents it. But...

Goddamnit, I'm so torn on this game.

Anyway, great article, Anthony.
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:42
Zeik56
"Also, Anthony is mistaking the first possible arrest (after the lizard trial) with the second (On The Loose). If Ethan is arrested in the latter scene, he stays put."

You can escape from the second capture, but I assume only if you didn't get captured the first time.
Anthony Burch's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:42
Anthony Burch
SansJason:
Regarding the Se7en thing: that's fair. But I'd also contend that, given Mills' development up to that point, his letting John Doe live would simply make for a worse movie. It's not entirely unbelievable that Somerset might have changed him, but it's not unreasonable to claim that the ending and the film as a whole would lose a lot of its punch.

I'd at least partially agree about Shelby's character, were it not for the fact that he pulls a gun on Ethan right after congratulating him for being such an awesome dad.
SansJason's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:43
SansJason
Oh yeah, I guess that makes sense. My mistake.
Kraid's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:44
Kraid
@SansJanson: This makes a lot more sense now.

It's still confusing however when it comes to the final outcome. My entire playtrought fooled me in believing that Ethan was not the killer and that both Madison and Jayden had proof or doubts at least to proove his innonence. Ultimately it came down to that stupid Blake and his trigger-happiness.

oh well.
SansJason's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:45
SansJason
Haha, my last comment was meant for Zeik. I admit no fault in my defense of the game!
NoctisLucisC's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:47
NoctisLucisC
Say whatever you want.The game sells...that means that people aren't stupid and have taste
Benjamin Dubroca's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:49
Benjamin Dubroca
Uhm, but what about moral ambiguity? Do people not do things "out of character" everyday? Nothing should be set in stone, just because of what you can predict about someone's future decisions. I can understand that it sucks that the game might only reward you for playing the characters spot on, but it encourages you to view them differently and play them differently to view what might happen overall. I think when you try to explain away a game as x and y, it ruins the prestige of its function. And how does that make it not "high art", because their is "choices". Interpretation is key in art, and in games, interpretation can also directly effect it.
Zeik56's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:49
Zeik56
"I'd at least partially agree about Shelby's character, were it not for the fact that he pulls a gun on Ethan right after congratulating him for being such an awesome dad."

This part actually makes a little more sense in some of the other endings. He can't anyone who knows his true identity go, because he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life rotting in jail. It makes a little more sense when Madison is there too, since Madison directly found out who he was.

Though you could also view that as one final test for Ethan. Would he risk being shot to save his son, or try to escape?
wanderingpixel's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:51
wanderingpixel
I was going to write an article similar to this, except with Bioshock rather than Half-Life 2.

Also, everybody talking about how great Heavy Rain is, try watching some real noir and then come back to me.
Ninja In Distress's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:54
Ninja In Distress
What do you know, Anthony mentioned Half-life 2.
Dynamic Sheep's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:54
Dynamic Sheep
The demo bored me to tears, Jim's review made me even less likely to rent this (I never considered it a buy), and this article sealed the deal. I'll be passing on the Heavy Rain "experience".
SBC Slam's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:55
SBC Slam
@wanderingpixel

I never even considered Heavy Rain Noir. It isn't. Do people seriously think it is?
DreRox's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:58
DreRox
I didn't read the whole post but from what I can summarize out of the conclusion is that Heavy Rain's story is not good because the strongest theme present is decided by the player whereas the outcome of a movie is entirely unchangeable by the audience.

However, doesn't the player have the right to make his experience what he wants it to be and is that not the pleasure of playing a game? I would go as far as to say that that is why a person would enjoy playing a game OVER watching a movie - being in control of his experience and what he takes away from it...

That doesn't make the story any less important or strong or anything. What it makes it is personal. Why is that a bad thing?
JACK of No Trades's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 16:59
JACK of No Trades
Heavy Rain is a horrible game beause its only on PS3 and it doesn't have online play where I can earn XP to unlock weapons. Heavy Rain should have never been released. Rogue Agent is a better game. Now excuse me while I go play MW2 & Halo.
Fearzone's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 17:00
Fearzone
Great read. Ebert is a genius. I agree games can't be art, but art can exist in a game. Rapture is art, which is the only reason Bioshock works-- definately not gameplay and not story either would have been enough to make it game of the year.

I'll be generous and say Heavy Rain might be artistic, but the game is so flawed to the point of nearly being non-existant that I wonder if we have to start calling these things something else.
wolf428's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 17:03
wolf428
Well I didn't read the whole articles due to fear of spoilers, what I did take away was essentially making decesions that are out of context ruins the story, well making decesions that made sense made the player useless. In my opinion, a good solution to this would be giving the player the option to create a character, include flashback sequences that you can manipulate, which allows you as the player to sculpt your characters personality, but that's just my two cents.
Kyle MacGregor's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/26/2010 17:04
Kyle MacGregor
I was so excited about Heavy Rain...

What happened?
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