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I sat at my computer, pondering that question. People tell me Tomb Raider is old and boring and nothing new happens. Yeah well I was nearly peeing my pants when in Chronicles they introduced corner shimmying! Yes, I did find that amazing. I have always been a huge TR fan and every time Lara can do something basic and new, I wet myself.

People are starting to become uneasy with Grand Theft Auto and the fact that it could very well be the same as it's predecessors but just prettier. So you could say the same about any other series that repeats the same character in the basically same setting with a slight story line change.

Now before I get the onslaught of "OMFG U H8 MARIO!!11 u sux", I don't. I enjoy Mario. I like Mario games. I'm just potentially getting bored of them. I also understand that Mario will never really go further than what it really is. Miyamoto has made a game for all ages in mind. All ages usually means markets its self to the more casual of gamers, who want that 3-hit kill boss and want that basic "save the princess" story line. They want simplicity, fun and it to be short.

As gaming becomes more mainstream and gamers become more hardcore, can Mario still stand up in a sea of deep games with more than just mushrooms and stars to their look. Gaming is ultimately about fun, which Mario is. We all complain about games repeating the same thing. We all complain about franchises getting old. So ...

Why are we not complaining about Mario? I believe nearly every new platform Mario game after 64 has been called "a new take on Mario 64". Why? Because well ... it is. So don't tell me Miss Croft is getting boring and old when half the gaming population still gets off to the fact Mario 64 is coming out next year with a new bloody Mario 64. It's like Madden all over again (oh yeah I went there).

Not to say I am anti-Mario. Hell no! Even though I am a small fraction of people who didn't ween themselves off of Mario's teet into the glorious world of gaming, I sure as hell did play through a whole bunch of Mario titles. I enjoyed the ironically named New Super Mario Brothers with its slight change of gameplay and completely same outcome in recent years even though when I was a bit wee child, I played the same bloody thing on a SNES.

What are we to question innovative and intricate game design, when most of us all go on about how fucking great Mario is (que Nintendo Fan boy fapping). Yes Mario was fun, Mario was original and Mario was a great childhood friend who taught us absolutely nothing about life but everything about using our imagination. So what's happened?

Absolutely nothing.

Mario is still the same guy we grew up with, reassuring to be honest, however why do we forgive Mario for not doing anything more than the same bloody thing over and over? In 2D, 3D, HD (??) he does it again -- Save that cock teasing princess from what? It's not like Bowser is really man enough to do anything relatively deviant or evil to Peach. I mean can you imagine playing Mario and you get to Bowser's castle to find him raping her brains out as she screams for Mario? No, that'll never happen. Will you ever really see an emotional and deep story line between a plumber and a princess? No.

Sure Mario is made for kids and adults alike. Kids however don't mind repetitive games. Actually kids tend to enjoy something repetitive. As adults however, we praise something that ultimately shows us nothing new year after year. We buy his clothes. We buy his mushrooms and we dance around the room in happy glee. It's "cool" to be a Mario fan. It's "cool" to play Mario games. To not like Mario makes you less of a gamer apparently.

Hey Mario? Continue with your spin off's of Parties and Smashing brothers from another mother. However, if your going to be a platform game and appeal to more gamers, try something different. But god damn you're fun ... I'm just growing out of you ... maybe?

I'll leave you with a quote from like-minded gamer Monir commenting on a review of Super Mario Galaxy.
"but is no one bored of Mario any more? it is exactly the same every time, the puzzles are all exactly the same, the bosses always die by 3 hits by doing a certain thing. Mario needs to die, quickly. I was disappointed with the new super Mario game on ds, it got stupidly high ratings from press and average people. the game was awful, I completed it within less than 3 hours, and I've only played 2 other Mario games in my life, but even then, I recognized that there was nothing new in any of the puzzles or enemies. the repetitiveness is annoying."
Has he got a point?

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154 comments | showing # 51 to 100

Cyberxion's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 14:51
Cyberxion
Let's see. I addressed the quote at the end of your post, which led me into my next point. Then I discussed something with someone else that spoke to a larger issue than the one you addressed here. So it seems that for the most part I wasn't even really talking to you, and that when I was, I wasn't even really addressing your specific points, more than I was their wider implications.

As for why Mario gets a pass and the rest don't, maybe it's because the Mario series established itself as a quality series with each new title, whereas those other games had several missteps along the way? I dunno, just a thought.
madninja's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 14:54
madninja
Why don't we bring up the fact that Nintendo for some reason can't make a new IP. Every console they have made has, one Mario game, one Zelda game, and one Metroid game. But they keep on making good games but I remembered someone said that where can Mario go from here and I agree with whoever said that. If Mario could die (which no Nintendo fanboy would ever let that happen) it would be good.

Good write up.
atheistium's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 14:56
atheistium
@Cyberxion

Sorry if you haven't noticed I've just realised how many comments this thing has gotten and I'm trying to read through them all. I just saw the last one talking about good games and I assumed you were talking "about" me. I apologise for that. However you don't need to be angry at me.

Again I am just expressing something I was thinking about today. I am glad most of the comments agree/disagree have been very constructive but a lot of people are not really reading the post because people are saying I don't like Mario games where I have stated I do.
atheistium's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 14:57
atheistium
@Variable Gear

Haha, I was using Tomb Raider as a comparison. I enjoy a variety of games tyvm ;-D
Dastardly007's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 14:59
Dastardly007
I enjoyed Mario games back when they were still platform games.

Anything before SM64.
Cheeburga's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:07
Cheeburga
I kind of lost interest after 64.
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:09
vexed alex
"I wrote something that kinda addresses this not too long ago, but I don't think getting bored of Mario is much of a factor just because he's been around for so long. If it's fun, I'll keep playing it -- the folks who get pissy about Mario's persistence in the contemporary gaming market are enemies of good gameplay."

That's the same argument I make for Halo, but everyone knowns you can't like Halo on the internet. It's toomainstream to be liked.
Pyramid Head's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:12
Pyramid Head
Mario games have always been for fanboys. The gameplay is simple jumping and... no, there's only jumping. I quite enjoyed Sunshine for it's vibrant atmosphere and water gun. They brought out the DS SMB and fanboys got wet and only fanboys bought it because everyone else saw it for what it was, a pseudo-2D jump simulator going for the price of a full-game.
itemforty's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:12
itemforty
Mario went from a very entertaining platforming game where the goal was to get from A to B, into an entertaining collection game where the goal was to collect enough stars to eventually travel back to previous stages to collect others stars.
Edarios's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:15
Edarios
i never liked him much in the first place.
Tino's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:22
Tino
It wouldn't be a post by Lauren without a rape mention.

Well spoken.
falinter's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:24
falinter
i sorta enjoyed smb64 more than galaxy but that can also be attributed to the fact that i was a wee tyke back then and it WAS fun. now i guess it is repetitive.

i am enjoying it but not to the extent i used to.

long story short, i agree.
Promagnum's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:35
Promagnum
Is it 1985?
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:48
A New Challenger
I think Super Mario Galaxy really made a refreshing change in some ways to the way levels played out- they were a lot more linear in most cases, with a definite beginning and end and a clear path in between. It almost feels like a transition between Super Mario World and Super Mario 64 in that respect.

One thing this post doesn't address is Mario's forays into RPG land, where different gameplay and new storylines have livened up the character and world a bit. I mean, for a vacant cliché, Princess Peach had some fantastic character development in the Paper Mario games.

Another consideration: how many Mario platformers have come out in the last few years? There were 3 (well, 4) on the NES, 2 on the Super NES (counting Yoshi's Island) and one each on N64, Gamecube, and Wii (so far.) There was New Super Mario Bros. on DS and two Game Boy games. The rate of release has really diminished in the last few years for straight-up Mario platform games, it seems. And while many of them employ the Save The Princess storyline, quite a few of them don't.

Having said that, after finishing Galaxy I kind of felt bored with Mario, and 3-D platformers in general. I don't get the same rush from them that I used to; I've built up a tolerance. Having played other games like Rez and Phoenix Wright in the last few years I've gotten a bigger rush, as those games offered so much to me that was novel, more novel than any Mario platformer (or any platformer) will ever likely be.

As for why people don't complain about Mario being kinda boring these days, there is nostalgia, definitely. There's also, as mentioned, the consistent quality of the games, and speaking bad about good games is hard to do when as gamers we like to emphasize playing great games and laugh at/steer people away from buying total garbage. I've honestly never given Tomb Raider a shot, but there have been significant missteps in the series in recent memory, and the way a franchise like that is farmed out to seemingly whichever studio gives the lowest bid is disheartening. It's very easy to pick on a franchise that has lost something for very obvious reasons, like Crash Bandicoot. Playing a polished game made by people who seem to care about what they're doing is, sadly, kind of refreshing in itself these days.
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 15:57
Dexter345
I don't think anybody has ever said that the newer Mario games were completely original. Why are we not bored? You said it yourself: because they're fun.
Natural 20's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:00
Natural 20
"That's the same argument I make for Halo, but everyone knowns you can't like Halo on the internet. It's toomainstream to be liked."

I would argue that the fact that Halo isn't peerless in its field since it can easily be argued that Half Life is a better shooting series or that Call of duty is a better shooting series, hell I can even argue Timesplitters if need be, is the reason your argument for Halo fails. (It also might be that Halo is a console shooter and thus suffers from the fact that you can't actually aim)

By comparison the only platformer I can think of which has rivalled the main Mario games in the past ten years is Banjo Kazooie and Rare don't make good games anymore anyway. No, Crash Bandicoot does not count and will never count.

Here is the problem, plot is secondary almost negligible in the Mario universe. What makes Mario games great and universally loved is the freedom of movement, the pinpoint controls and the sense of wonder that makes me yell 'squee storytime storytime!' when I unlock another chapter in the storybook. Gamers will get tired of Mario and get tired of franchise when this is no longer offered. But in a market where nothing else offers what Mario does, Mario will be in demand.
Eschatos's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:03
Eschatos
I've been bored of him for quite a while now. Never was a fan.
Im OK's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:04
Im OK
Out of curiosity, does anyone know whatever happened with I, Mario? Their forums are still up sort of, but the wiki site appears to be dead altogether. I know it was just a fan-game and all that, but it sounded like it could have been pretty awesome, assuming they could avoid Nintendo's banhammer (which may be why the site is down for all I know).
StriderS's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:11
StriderS
I'm not tired of Mario. I await every title vigorusly.

But, I'm not too much of a jackass to admit I'd like a little change from Mario. At least the main platformers. I would like a deeper story, make it seem like Mario, Peach and Bowser feel about each other. Some of Luigi and Mario's brotherly rivalry. Hell, bring Wario back as a main villian. Make Waluigi and Daisy actually exist.

We love Mario because his world is fantastic and his gameplay is great. But otherwise, he needs more.
Cyberxion's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:17
Cyberxion
@atheistium

I had a feeling you'd think I was angry at you. I'm not. You're groovy and good to go. I was just clearing the air is all. If I came across as angry, well that's just an unfortunate side-effect of me being me, and I apologize. ;)
Raymod's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:18
Raymod
I feel that from experience Mario games have more play time and lastability than any other game on the market today (excluding RPGs). Every time a new game comes out every comes in to the shop i work in and buys it saying how great it is, then 2 days later they trade it in complaining about it being too damn short, and i would agree with them that games are now far too short and nowhere near worth the price we have to pay for them. Give me GIGA WING 2 any day or GRADIUS V :D
atheistium's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:19
atheistium
@Cyberxion
*hugs* lulululul :p
Twicky's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:25
Twicky
Fuck Monir. So what if it isn't original, it's fun. Halo isn't boring, and it took a lot from Golden Eye. The only way that Mario could be made better is if Nintendo took everything from the previous Mario games (certain levels, gameplay, items) and put them into one 3D game. I would kill to play Super Mario World in 3D.
StriderS's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:31
StriderS
...Super Mario World 3d DOES sound good...

I dunno. Maybe the reason I get off to Mario is because most shooter don't do much for me.
loki d20's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 16:49
loki d20
Got bored of Mario with SMB3... no clue why people still like the stuff. Bored as all heck when I play the games.
Ratcliff's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:03
Ratcliff
well, I doubt their will be another one anytime soon, ZeroPuncuation said it best "After the galaxy, where does one go? Maybe the Universe but isn't that just delaying the inevitable?"
Orionsaint's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:09
Orionsaint
Maybe they should bring Mario back to his roots. In Mario Bros he and Luigi were in a sewer as plumbers protecting the pipes from Turtles, Crabs, The occasional Fireball. You know stuff that effects our plumbing everyday.

So yeah a Mario game that revolves around the sewers and features pipes and gators, manholes. Dirty water. Maybe a bathroom in the suburbs. Mario shrinks. But rather than only platforming. You could have puzzle solving and the goal of the game is to stop all the water in the pipes from leaking.
SanityMask's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:18
SanityMask
I want a full grown up mario game about 2 delusional plumber brothers and their prostitute lovers, peach and daisy respectively( you have to admit those are perfect names for hookers or at least strippers)
bowser could be a rich full tatooed drug addict or yakuza if you prefer and the koopas would be mobsters.
you'd have to hack peoples limbs off with a pipewrench in this one.
As for the fireballs, being a plumber myself I guess it would have to be a mix of a welding torch (that we commonly use for residential waterlines) with ABS Fittings resulting in flaming ABS fittings.
Mr Lazy's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:19
Mr Lazy
kinda fed up with mario, he was a great character and his games were fun, but now there are bigger, better, and deeper platformers out there. Nostalgia can only take you so far
kadosho's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:24
kadosho
To be honest, I haven't played a Mario title in a long while. Sure the Smash & Kart, but a platformer (let alone I do not own a Wii; yet; nor have I played Galaxy). Its just one of those things I ponder, maybe my mindset has changed I kinda forgot what it was like to hit a block & obtain a shroom.

Although it would be fun to actually revisit alot of the classic adventures into one full blown game. Just imagine the undertaking of defending the Mushroom Kingdom; or taking a flagship down. That feeling alone was utterly amazing.

New ideas, that's a come n' go ordeal with Mario. If I recall, Galaxy just takes things in a different perspective. Its the same tried method of platforming, just in space. Maybe someday we might see a new "leap" with this plumber. We'll just have to wait and see.
The-Excel's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:27
The-Excel
Congratulations on front-page status.
iamtehpwn's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:28
iamtehpwn
Wow. Simply idiotic, Sorry. You really can't say Mario is more of the same, if you suggest Super Mario galaxy is also more of the same. Thats moronic because a game like Call of Duty 4 is Also more of same, despite it being modern warfare.

As Noland Bushnell said, youth wouldn't know good game design if it slapped them in the face.
Syn's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:41
Syn
I've read most of the comments, some very good points were brought up.
People say Mario just keeps doing the same thing over again, it was pointed out that he has also participated in the Fighting genre, he has had his own RPG games, starting on SNES with Mario RPG, then the Paper Mario games.

But I pose you this question: what would you rather see him do if all that isn't good enough for you now?

I personally managed to avoid playing all the shitty Mario games (SMB2, Mario Sunshine.) although I did give them a chance I never got very far in either.
SMG was good because it was Mario back in his platforming element, but he was doing it in an alien and new environment. Granted the gravity element isn't something Sonic hasn't experienced before, but I like moving from planet to planet as you progressed through levels.

I missed the level of hidden levels that Super Mario World was graced with, but the levels on SMW weren't as much fun to fly through IMO.

For a last thought: Maybe it's just because I didn't poison my mind with massive amounts of SM64 but I don't remember Mario being able to do a spin attack...but thats on par with corner shimmying right?
Atlas's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:43
Atlas
I thought Super Mario Sunshine was far more fun than Galaxy. It went out on a limb and people cried because they wanted same old, same old. I am sort of disappointed with Galaxy. I want something more. I don't think it deserves all those perfect ratings. It is a good game, but it just doesn't deserve to sit with games like Mass Effect, which try something new.
Sir Ireland's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 17:58
Sir Ireland
I have never liked mario games and have never understood the hype.
PetiePal's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:00
PetiePal
You know what...I'm actually starting to get tired of Mario because there isn't all that much left they can really do with him. Platformers will always be platformers no matter if you add in motion control or not. The controls haven't vastly changed in Galaxy where it's really utilizing any kind of crazy movement...you use the remote to "collect Starbits." That's kind of boring for motion control. It's about as inspired as Zelda was for the Wii.

All companies whore out their "mascots" but Nintendo is pretty bad. I mean it's almost getting to epic Sonic proportions. I love Mario just as much as anyone else but Nintendo has to stop relying on just Mario and Zelda to push their hardware. To an extend the Grand Theft Autos, the Marios and the Halos will always sell systems but we're at a point we're there's not TOO much to do left in consoles.

Graphics will get prettier, systems more powerful but what does that leave us with? We're already at a point where pretty games (Assassin's Creed anyone?) are simply great looking but the gameplay is horrid. There isn't too much innovation left in the industry unless we start seeing some new IPs pop up. Mario has always at it's heart been level-based, collection based. It's become a series I love to revisit and timeless in the games that have come out, but I'm not really getting anything new out of the experience.
WhiteSpyderZero's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:15
WhiteSpyderZero
The way I see it, as long as Mario games are still enjoyable, then I won't get bored of them....Super Mario Galaxy was a definate return to form.....We could do without all of the spin-offs and cameos though!
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:15
GuitarAtomik
I think alot of you are missing the point of the article. It's not about whether Mario is fun anymore (Hell, she said she still likes it), the point I think she's trying to make is why is Mario (and I'd add every major Nintendo IP) given such high accolades and Game of the Year when it's really not much better (if at all) as a lot of other similar games. Why isn't picked on for re-hashing a lot of stuff as much as other games do?

Was SMG REALLY that much better than Ratchet and Clank? Was it REALLY that much more fun to play than God of War 2? Granted, a lot of this is personal preference but you all have to admit that Mario is given a free pass from an overwhelming amount of people because of nostalgia.

It's not about whether it was fun or not or being "an enemy of good gameplay".
WDot's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:20
WDot
Peach could at least show her appreciation for Mario's valiant deeds. Seriously, I do not feel rewarded after 10 hours of hopping and bopping through tough levels and armies of Koopas only to get a "Thanks Mario" as she runs off with some boy toy and Mario is stuck at home masturbating.

That said, if that actually happened at the end of a Mario game I would laugh so hard. And then I'd be pissed.
atheistium's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:21
atheistium
@GuitarAtomik

THANK YOU!
PetiePal's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:23
PetiePal
Guitar Amok has it right, the point is whether the IP is strong enough to warrant sequels. I'm sure a bunch of us could name game sequels that never should have been. Personally I think God Of War 2 was enough for that story, anything more and it cheapens the franchise.

It's funny that an Italian plumber made it this far when you think about it!
timmet's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:36
timmet
I think you should look at what mario doesn't do. Which is adhere to a niche style of gameplay. Mario gameplay is the very basic style of gameplay. Run and jump. The reason that this doesn't get old is because it's the foundation that all other games are based off of. It's the gameplay fundamentals, and when that gets old, games are old in general.
AlucardX24's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:47
AlucardX24
I think Luigi needs more spotlight. Also, nintendo has the ability to create new gameplay types and we know this, so they should do more than just a few visual changes and things that change gameplay only slightly. I enjoyed mario galaxy, but it did feel alot like sunshine except you were walking on giant spheres and not an island.
Falciase's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:53
Falciase
People still like Mario because he's still a hell of a lot of fun. I'd take any Mario game over nearly any other game from any other company. Is no one bored of Halo yet?
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 18:58
GuitarAtomik
@timmet

I would argue that it is getting old. At least it is when you stick so hard to it which I feel SMG does.

God of War and to a lesser extent, Ratchet and Clank are good examples of what I guess I'd call call the new generation of platformers. The elements of the basics are still there, but they add so much else that you almost don't think of them as platformers. It's fresh.

Nowadays when I think of other platformers that are essentially as basic as SMG, I think of Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, or Tak and Juju. Not to say that SMG is as bad as those games (or bas at all), but when your closest comparisons are those games, it's hard to NOT look really good.
Capn Birdseye's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 19:04
Capn Birdseye
"Why are we not bored of Mario?"

heh, speak for yourself, I stopped playing Mario games after Super Mario World, with the exception of the occasional Kart game ;)

Maybe because I am older than most here, but I had my fill of cheesy mascots back in the 80s and 90s.
frozenbabylon's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 19:08
frozenbabylon
Me and GuitarAtomik. We're like this. *crosses fingers* He's got it right.
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 19:18
vexed alex
*walks in the room - slowly walks out*

Why are you guys so emotional about this?

Also, Ratchet and Clank rivals Mario. Just answering to that person who wrote that huge ass response to my small comment. I love you too, guy who passionately disagrees with my point.
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 19:20
GuitarAtomik
@frozenbabylon

:*
Hiltz's Avatar - Comment posted on 01/05/2008 19:40
Hiltz
I felt that what made Galaxy so refreshing was its level design, new gameplay mechanics (gravity and launch star) and the new space theme. The epic orchestrated music and the good cut scenes also contributed to the game's stellar presentation. The new power-ups are nice, but like the fan service, they're just the icing on the cake. Of course, the whole package is what made Galaxy feel like a proper Mario game and not as gimmicky as Sunshine was.


"
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