I sat at my computer, pondering that question. People tell me Tomb Raider is old and boring and nothing new happens. Yeah well I was nearly peeing my pants when in Chronicles they introduced corner shimmying! Yes, I did find that amazing. I have always been a huge TR fan and every time Lara can do something basic and new, I wet myself.
People are starting to become uneasy with Grand Theft Auto and the fact that it could very well be the same as it's predecessors but just prettier. So you could say the same about any other series that repeats the same character in the basically same setting with a slight story line change.
Now before I get the onslaught of "OMFG U H8 MARIO!!11 u sux", I don't. I enjoy Mario. I like Mario games. I'm just potentially getting bored of them. I also understand that Mario will never really go further than what it really is. Miyamoto has made a game for all ages in mind. All ages usually means markets its self to the more casual of gamers, who want that 3-hit kill boss and want that basic "save the princess" story line. They want simplicity, fun and it to be short.
As gaming becomes more mainstream and gamers become more hardcore, can Mario still stand up in a sea of deep games with more than just mushrooms and stars to their look. Gaming is ultimately about fun, which Mario is. We all complain about games repeating the same thing. We all complain about franchises getting old. So ...
Why are we not complaining about Mario? I believe nearly every new platform
Mario game after
64 has been called "a new take on
Mario 64". Why? Because well ... it is. So don't tell me Miss Croft is getting boring and old when half the gaming population still gets off to the fact
Mario 64 is coming out next year with a new bloody
Mario 64. It's like
Madden all over again
(oh yeah I went there).
Not to say I am anti-Mario. Hell no! Even though I am a small fraction of people who didn't ween themselves off of Mario's teet into the glorious world of gaming, I sure as hell did play through a whole bunch of
Mario titles. I enjoyed the ironically named
New Super Mario Brothers with its slight change of gameplay and completely same outcome in recent years even though when I was a bit wee child, I played the same bloody thing on a SNES.
What are we to question innovative and intricate game design, when most of us all go on about how fucking great
Mario is
(que Nintendo Fan boy fapping). Yes
Mario was fun,
Mario was original and
Mario was a great childhood friend who taught us absolutely nothing about life but everything about using our imagination. So what's happened?
Absolutely nothing.
Mario is still the same guy we grew up with, reassuring to be honest, however why do we forgive Mario for not doing anything more than the same bloody thing over and over? In 2D, 3D, HD (??) he does it again -- Save that cock teasing princess from what? It's not like Bowser is really man enough to do anything relatively deviant or evil to Peach. I mean can you imagine playing Mario and you get to Bowser's castle to find him raping her brains out as she screams for Mario? No, that'll never happen. Will you ever really see an emotional and deep story line between a plumber and a princess? No.
Sure Mario is made for kids and adults alike. Kids however don't mind repetitive games. Actually kids tend to enjoy something repetitive. As adults however, we praise something that ultimately shows us nothing new year after year. We buy his clothes. We buy his mushrooms and we dance around the room in happy glee. It's "cool" to be a Mario fan. It's "cool" to play
Mario games. To not like Mario makes you less of a gamer
apparently.
Hey Mario? Continue with your spin off's of
Parties and
Smashing brothers from another mother. However, if your going to be a platform game and appeal to more gamers, try something different. But god damn you're fun ... I'm just growing out of you ... maybe?
I'll leave you with a quote from like-minded gamer
Monir commenting on a review of
Super Mario Galaxy.
"but is no one bored of Mario any more? it is exactly the same every time, the puzzles are all exactly the same, the bosses always die by 3 hits by doing a certain thing. Mario needs to die, quickly. I was disappointed with the new super Mario game on ds, it got stupidly high ratings from press and average people. the game was awful, I completed it within less than 3 hours, and I've only played 2 other Mario games in my life, but even then, I recognized that there was nothing new in any of the puzzles or enemies. the repetitiveness is annoying."
Has he got a point?
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I kinda admit that after playing Super Mario Galaxy I wondered why in the hell people still love Mario.
I agree and blame it on Nintendo being number 1 in the US during the Sega/Nintendo console wars. I loved me some SMB3, but after that I couldn't care less about the same thing over and over again.
Tried to get my 13 year old nephew into it, he gave Galaxy exactly 3 minutes before handing over the controls and asking for something else to play. A kid, handing over the controls!
We should be bored by now, but for some reason we can't stop. It's like visual crack, you throw down the controller get pissed and say god D#@N IT MARIO I HATE YOU! 30 minutes later your right back where you were playing and saying to myself why god why..... OOHHH ANOTHER 1 UP YEZZZZZZZZ!
I'll let you know when I get tired of Mario. It just hasn't happened yet, and I'm fine with that. The stories are obviously not worth talking about. They just don't need stories. I personally love the core Mario series because of the overwhelming charm injected in the level designs, character and object designs, instantly unique and recognizable sounds, spot-on accurate and reliable gameplay mechanics, variety of worlds, and of course the soundtracks.
Currently, I'm replaying Mario Sunshine, since I dont want a Wii just yet, and I still say fuck all the naysayers. Even this one rocks.
having not read any of this im gonna say personally he has history and hes not an arbitrary character with throw away experiences in most cases.
i think people have grown up with him and have a connection to him cause we have been through so much with him.
my two cents for what its worth now im gonna go read what you wrote like a good little boy in picture #2.
" I mean can you imagine playing Mario and you get to Bowser's castle to find him raping her brains out as she screams for Mario?"
. . . I can. You don't know my imagination . . .
I'm gonna go cry now . . .
Oh and I've been enjoying the little guy since 1988 when I first played an NES at my friend's house when I was just 3 years old. And I think he loves me more than I love him after 20 years; that is if all the fun is any consideration.
Mario is ingrained into our society nothing can penetrate the brainwashing of Nintendo to make us bored of Mario. His up to date fashions his understated but ever present mustache his.......ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!....stunning good looks what more could....ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!...you ask for in a gaming icon?....ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!....why to suggest anything else would be ridiculous...ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!..
and for my serious post:
I think the thing that has me not bored with the core mario game is the simply skill based nature of the gameplay. Sure, its easy skill by now, but its a skill. You string this move and that move to make insane jump number 254, just like insane jump number 254 from the last game.
And its a high quality experience. after slogging through your Madden game with wicked game breaking glitches, or through the non descript obscure "what the hell am I not doing that you want me to do" gameplay of so many character /story driven action shooters like Splinter Cell, its a comfort to go into a well polished game and own face.
Its kinda like Katamari I think. Everything there is so ridiculous, that you just go with it.
after reading what you said and all the comments i would say this
mario is a safe reliable friend thats always going to be there for us when things are shitty.
its like a hug from mom or a cup of hot chocolate on a cold, its comforting and consoling and gives you what you want consistently and never asks too much of you.
it wholesome good clean fun and we all need that sometimes and thats whats so attractive about it.
I only play the Mario games to be close to Liugi. He's a man I could never get bored of.
No, I disagree with that statement at the end.
Even if Mario's basic gameplay is the same every time, you still have to factor in all the stuff they add that makes it so epic. SMG had the level design of the gods. Super Mario 64 had 3D. We dont speak of Sunshine.
I still like donkey kong.
I adored Mario's 2D adventures back on the NES and Super NES, but in all honesty, I didn't really see what all the fuss was about in regards to Mario 64. Sure it was 3D, but the controls sucked, the camera was god awful and it just wasn't fun!
Mario Sunshine was alright, but again, the platform genre was all about precise jumps and that kind of stuff and theres too much to consider when the genre is shifted to 3D, and this takes away from its gameplay
king3vbo, stfu. Yes we do.
I agree with you. I still enjoy the games, but after a bit they're just not enough to hold my interest. But then again at least his games are still playable unlike some of the recent Sonic games.. Damn Sonic Team, I need a good Sonic game! ;-; I was always a bigger Sonic fan than Mario!
Props to Thornnn: any Futurama reference in the comments instantly makes a post better.
Well, I don’t know, Lauren. To be honest, I don’t have nearly as much familiarity with Mario as many other gamers — the last Nintendo console I owned was the NES (since then, I’ve had a Genesis and then all three PlayStations). While I owned Super Mario Bros. 3 for my NES (correction: own — I still have the original cart in the bright yellow box with the clear “Challenge Set” sticker on it to show that it came with my NES), I never got around to beating it when I was a kid (yeah, yeah, sue me) — and I’ve really only played snippets of Mario games ever since. I did spend a decent amount of time with Super Mario 64, but it always consisted either of me playing it at a store kiosk or at a friend’s house, and never for any extended period of time. As for Galaxy, it’s the same thing; I’ve played it at Best Buy, and I watched my friend play it for an hour or two a few weeks ago.
Even with the short amount of time that I’ve spent with it, I found myself saying, “God, I wish I had a Wii just for this game.” The gravity mechanic is unbelievably well done, and the game is very, very polished. I still have yet to see the game in 480p (my buddy has yet to pick up Wii component cables), but it looks great for a Wii game, and it’s just fun. So I’ll give Nintendo props for that, and along with Mozgus, I love that the common threads between Mario games have been preserved (e.g., “Wa-hah!”, etc.) For me, Mario games have never been about the story, but instead, a highly enjoyable platforming experience replete with time-honored traditions and classic characters.
Oh and yay! My last comment had your blog eat my 100th post! =D Now there shall be cake.
"It's 'cool' to play Mario games"? Alert the hot freshmen chicks, there's a new cool guy in town for them to swoon after!
Mario changes, yet stays the same... and that's the way it is with any franchise in any form of media. In order for it to be a sequel, you've got to have the same basic idea, but in order to keep it fresh you've got to shake things up. For instance, in each Resident Evil game you're shooting zombies; but this time they're not really zombies, they're people with parasites. In each Call of Duty game you're fighting a war; but this time you're fighting in the near future. In each Mario game you're saving a princess by jumping about; but this time you're jumping about in space. In each Tomb Raider game you're climbing shit to get to places; but this time you can shimmy around the corners to get to those places.
You shouldn't feel detached from Mario just because he's doing what he's always done, you should seek out new experiences in other IPs, and when you get that desire to save a princess, pop Mario in. Or when you get that desire to kill zombies, pop Resident Evil in.
+5 buttsex to Lauren.
Promote this shit. Lauren is fucking genius.
+1 Agree
I haven't been enthralled with a Mario game since Super Mario World.
Well, here's the thing, just to play the Devil's Advocate (specifically, the part of Keanu Reeves), Mario as a brand has been rigorously, consistently good, as games. Given the weakest mario (2, imo) is still better than so many games, it's different than tomb raider.
Whether you are bored of them or not, there are several tomb raider games that have weakened the brand (i.e. chronicles / angel of darkness) and added to a feeling many of them are gimmicky, repetitive updates.
For argument's sake, every iteration of Mario has truly been different, even within the 2d platformers, 1,2,3 feature pretty different pacing, structure, themes, enemies and gameplay elements the keep the series fresh and different.
Can you really say shimmying around a corner is the same as adding a (hated) liquid-fueled rocket jet pack that shoots water, or the addition spherical worlds, altered gravity and motion control?
Nostalgia, plain and simple. Galaxy was a very good game, but it definitely wasn't worth the over the top accolades it received IMO.
With that said, in most years it would have been a serious contender for game of the year. Can Lara Croft say the same thing?
Good games are good games. Yes, I'm drawn towards Mario games due to the familiarity that I have with the character, but mainly I'm drawn to them because of the series' stellar track record.
Aside from Sunshine, which I personally enjoyed, the main series has been pretty keen, and so when new games in the series come out, I'm compelled to play them.
I wrote something that kinda addresses this not too long ago, but I don't think getting bored of Mario is much of a factor just because he's been around for so long. If it's fun, I'll keep playing it -- the folks who get pissy about Mario's persistence in the contemporary gaming market are enemies of good gameplay.
...You bastards have no soul.
I take issue with the little bit you quoted at the end of your post though, about all the games being exactly the same. That's simply not the case.
Yes, like any series there are common game mechanics that carry over from game to game. However, while certain things remain similar from game to game, each game brings something new to the table.
It doesn't take a genius to see that either. It just takes someone who's not predisposed to hate on the series. That's not to say that finding them boring means you're a hater. To each his own. But when you make such patently false statements about a series, you've proven that objectivity is beyond you.
There are common themes and mechanics that carry over from title to title, just like any sequel to any popular game. It seems as if the person you misguidedly chose to quote at the end not only doesn't know this, but has a hate-on for the series that's blinded him to the differences that do exist from game to game.
Decent write-up, but you did yourself a disservice by choosing to quote that clueless guy.
As long as Mario is able to transform into Ice and wall jump up waterfalls I will keep coming back. Not to mention mario games have some of the most memorable music in video game history
Excellent write-up and I totally agree. I think that's why I wasn't so in to SMG. It's like the nostalgia ran out.
The games are good. It's just the fact that it's Mario thats what we dont like. I they released sunshine but with another main character and different enemies, princes, ect. Alot of us might have liked it a whole log more.
Personally, I know the games are good and they're fun to play, but seeing Mario there kind of kills it for me. I'll play SMG, when it can get it for cheap.
Man, I'm starting to get worked up. Not because you're "growing out of Mario". Again, to each their own. No, it's the idea that good gameplay can be so disregarded, simply because there are familiar elements carried over from game to game.
The entire industry subsists on one or two tried-and-true gameplay mechanics, with only the themes and settings changing from game to game. With the exception of the odd gameplay innovation that pops up from time to time, we're essentially playing the exact same games we've been playing for years, only in a shiny new coat of paint.
That's not to give Mario a pass, but it is to say that if that hasn't gotten to you yet, why not stop being so concerned about petty things and enjoy a good game for what it is?
In the end though, you like what you like. Enjoy what you will and I'll keep devouring whatever games come my way that offer me a good time, regardless of the character or themes attached.
Whenyou say that Mario doesn't get a pass, You're wrong. Mario gets a pass because he's one of the oldest franchises there is and everybody has some sort of nostalgia attached to him. That gets him a free pass.
She's right in that people are complaining about `The same gameplay` in games like GTA, Tomb Raider, DMC and the like and then they're jumping up and down like monkeys praising Mario when the core mechanic of Mario games has not changed since Mario 64. And before that, The core mechanic hadn't changed since the first SMB. Talk all you want about adding different parts to the game, but the core game has remained the same.
That's not saying that they can't be good games. They are for people who aren't tired of the formula. And Cyberxion is also right, that regardless of character themes attached, they are good games. But there are also better platformers out there that get the `It's not as good as Mario` slapped on them, Because people are blinded by nostalgia. And it sucks that every platformer gets that kind of treatment because of Mario. Why can't Ratchet and Clank be an amazing game without being compared to the latest Mario? Why can't a game like Gurumin on the PSP get a review without a line that says `It's gameplay is similar to that of Mario 64`?
That's what drives me nuts about Mario. Yeah. I'm bored as hell of Mario, But he doesn't really annoy me until that starts happening.
Is this post about classic games like Mario bros. Being given a nostalgia pass, or is it suggesting that newer franchises like Tomb Raider are being held to a higher(perhaps unfair) standard of constant innovation?
And when the public and media feel that their needs are not being met by the new titles in the progress department, they dismiss the new games as sub par while new releases of older titles are allowed to tread water?
Haven't played a Mario game since the jump to 16-bit, got bored.
I'm pretty sure I remember corner shimmying in TLR?
@frozenbabylon
Quoted for fucking truth
@frozenbabylon
Yikes, parallel posted ma' bayd.
I love you.
I'm apathetic towards Mario. God bless the little fella, he's certainly been influential to my gaming life, but I can take him or leave him. I'd be upset if he was retired, but I'm not really playing his games.
I never did enjoy Mario games that much like my brothers and sisters do. Not to say I hate Mario or anything, but I never enjoyed any particular type of game until 2004 when I discovered shmups. Make a Mario-themed shmup (which isn't a mini-game in Mario Party 573) and maybe I'll think differently.
I tend to disagree, but maybe that's just my nature. Mario is not a cool idea, or a story, or a virtual world, or a cinematic experience.
Mario is a vehicle for the evolution of play control over time, as technology allows for new play ideas, usually implemented in one or two major changes per Mario game.
To the extent that you like/dislike those changes in play control, you should like/dislike Mario.
Side rant: When videogames venture outside new aspects of play control, they are some of the most derivative, cliched, unoriginal forms of entertainment I can imagine. I don't think people would still read books if only three interesting, original stories came out each year. This could well change, but it's not a strength of games yet.
We grow up, find other tastes, get used to different types of experiences.
As off mine, I'm losing a bit of interest in many new releases because, first, I'm mainly a PC gamer and, second, I'm badly accustomed to great storylines and variety of gameplay mechanics.
I feel less compelled to play Gears of War, Halo games or Call of Duty 4 than playing a new Half-Life, Crysis or Psychonauts.
People grow up.
And consequently, become more demanding, hard to please.
Missed this part.
I'm a bit bored of Mario since Super Mario 64.
The controls were sluggish and the gameplay shifted to a item collection game, repeating the same levels over and over again.
I never had that interest in Mario as a character, but rather on his games.
I'm with Linde, but I'm going to take what he said to another level and say that if you are fighting Mario's persistence in the platform genre all you are really fighting is the evolution of that genre. You are worried that another Mario game will blow all the contemporary platforming games out of the water (again), and that's why you feel the need to attack the Mario games in this way. You're just jealous, when instead you should be shutting the fuck up and just playing games. Especially if you are going to knock the Mario games for being uninteresting to you. I mean, wow, you're telling me that not everyone likes everything released during the past year, or thinks all the games even deserve respect. Wow, thanks for the tip! Without that I don't know how I would have dealt with all the games that are going to be released in 2008. Again, thanks for all your help atheistium!
Mario feels like the Mickey Mouse of the gaming world. They both lack a strong multifaceted personality, deep plotlines, character development, and so on. They endure because of their pleasant nature and iconic nature. However, both have a much easier time lasting since they have been always associated with quality products.
The resulting difference between Mario's continued acclaim and calls for Lara Croft to innovate is simply a matter of satisfaction with the gaming innovations introduced in each respective series. Also, Tomb Raider's glut of titles in the late 90's gave it the air of a Madden-esque yearly cash grabs. Between 1996 and 2003, there were 6 TR titles and only 2 major Mario titles (ignoring his digressions into other genres). While it's true someone can easily become far more tired of Mario's continued presence in the vast majority of Nintendo games, the company's commitment to quality keeps his integrity relatively untarnished.
bish hasent played galaxy
@frozenbabylon
I don't disagree that some people have the nostalgia blinders on when it comes to Mario. However, while the core mechanics of the series have remained the same as logic dictates will happen from sequel to sequel, there have been changes made to the gameplay.
More importantly though, these mechanics are tried-and-true, and backed by games that are legitimately fun to play. Aside from Mario Sunshine, a game which splits gamers down the middle even today regarding its quality, a majority of the games in the core series have offered solid gameplay.
The irony here is that in complaining about how much acclaim the series gets when compared to other games, you're putting yourself into the same category of people who apparently can't appreciate a games for what it is, and instead focus on pointless triviality.
Popularity is in no way a personal indicator of whether or not a game is good, and whether or not other people are playing a game I like doesn't mean that I'm going to shun the popular game in favor of the not-so-popular one. Again, a good game is a good game, and fuck it if some people are too stupid to see beyond a brand name. It doesn't taint the popular game for me anymore than it makes the unpopular one better. I'm not playing games for you or the next guy, I'm playing them for me. I don't care beyond that.
Should more people try things beyond their favored mascot or what have you? Sure. But does the fact that some people don't speak to the quality of the series that they favor one way or the other? No. Once again, a good game is a good game, even if some people aren't playing it for that reason.
Then you bring up the Ratchet and Clank series.
Look, I love the series. It's one of my favorites on the PS2, and I can see myself getting the PS3 game once I dig myself out of this financial hole I'm in and can afford to buy a PS3. However, much like the Mario series you're condemning, so too does Ratchet and Clank rely on common gameplay mechanics that carry over from game to game.
I know this, and still I enjoy them for the solid gameplay they bring to the table, as well as the just plain fun that I have when I play them. I would no more condemn the series for sticking to what it does best than I would the Mario series, as long as the games continue to be good.
All that shit aside though, when you boil what you posted down to its essence, you're angry that Mario gets name-dropped when other games are being reviewed. I think it's just as stupid as you do, but hey man, like it or not, Mario 64 set a standard for 3-D platformers.
I think the flaw in their eagerness to compare Mario 64 to everything lies in the fact that the game doesn't hold up extremely well today. It's still a fun game, but flaws that might have been acceptable in the infancy of the 3-D platformer aren't so easy to accept these days. And yet they compare an aged game to new games, when if they took off the blinders, they'd realize that when held to today's standards, Mario 64 wouldn't be likely to be as well received as it was back at it's release.
So I agree with you on that point, even though I can't understand how a reviewers stupidity should reflect on the Mario series one way or the other. Yeah there have been better games, but the Mario games are still solid, fun platformers, so what's the BFD? Are we only allowed to enjoy one series or what?
Eh, in all honesty, I'm bored of gaming on the whole. There are still a few games that I enjoy, but when I realized that on the whole I've been playing the same games for years just with a slightly different coat of paint, I lost most of my enthusiasm for the hobby. It's all feeling very stale to me, and it's not just a symptom of the Mario series.
A Haiku:
Lauren is love and
although peeps want new IPs,
demographics don't.
At any rate, I'd answer the question "Why are we not bored of Mario", with a question of my own. Do you have something against good games?
A second Haiku:
Lauren hates good games
She only likes raiding tombs
Ridiculous post
@Cyberxion
I;m really happy you've commented a lot but I think you haven't really taken in the fact that I've repeatedly said I like Mario.
I was mearly questions why people say other IP's are old when Mario is pretty much the oldest IP and yet people don't complain about him doing the same thing over and over.
Doesn't mean I am not a Mario fan at all! :-)
OMG LAUREN IS GAY CUZ SHE DUN LIEK MARIO. /end sarcasm
H8 U! STP H8TIN ON MARIO! >:/
My first console was an NES, but I was raised on the Genesis. In fact, my first Nintendo console after the NES was the Gamecube, solely for Super Smash. In saying that, I missed out on Super Mario World and Mario 64 and what have you. I'm not necessarily hating on Mario, but the appeal just isn't there for me. Does that make me (and the others that feel the same) any less "hardcore"?
Mario is still crack incarnate, god. IT DOESN'T EVEN END WHEN I LOSE ALL MY LIVES! It's like it want's to consume my soul over and over and spit it back out. Damn you plumber man.... *sniffle* Just let me be...
Let's see. I addressed the quote at the end of your post, which led me into my next point. Then I discussed something with someone else that spoke to a larger issue than the one you addressed here. So it seems that for the most part I wasn't even really talking to you, and that when I was, I wasn't even really addressing your specific points, more than I was their wider implications.
As for why Mario gets a pass and the rest don't, maybe it's because the Mario series established itself as a quality series with each new title, whereas those other games had several missteps along the way? I dunno, just a thought.
Why don't we bring up the fact that Nintendo for some reason can't make a new IP. Every console they have made has, one Mario game, one Zelda game, and one Metroid game. But they keep on making good games but I remembered someone said that where can Mario go from here and I agree with whoever said that. If Mario could die (which no Nintendo fanboy would ever let that happen) it would be good.
Good write up.
@Cyberxion
Sorry if you haven't noticed I've just realised how many comments this thing has gotten and I'm trying to read through them all. I just saw the last one talking about good games and I assumed you were talking "about" me. I apologise for that. However you don't need to be angry at me.
Again I am just expressing something I was thinking about today. I am glad most of the comments agree/disagree have been very constructive but a lot of people are not really reading the post because people are saying I don't like Mario games where I have stated I do.
@Variable Gear
Haha, I was using Tomb Raider as a comparison. I enjoy a variety of games tyvm ;-D
I enjoyed Mario games back when they were still platform games.
Anything before SM64.
I kind of lost interest after 64.
"I wrote something that kinda addresses this not too long ago, but I don't think getting bored of Mario is much of a factor just because he's been around for so long. If it's fun, I'll keep playing it -- the folks who get pissy about Mario's persistence in the contemporary gaming market are enemies of good gameplay."
That's the same argument I make for Halo, but everyone knowns you can't like Halo on the internet. It's toomainstream to be liked.
Mario games have always been for fanboys. The gameplay is simple jumping and... no, there's only jumping. I quite enjoyed Sunshine for it's vibrant atmosphere and water gun. They brought out the DS SMB and fanboys got wet and only fanboys bought it because everyone else saw it for what it was, a pseudo-2D jump simulator going for the price of a full-game.
Mario went from a very entertaining platforming game where the goal was to get from A to B, into an entertaining collection game where the goal was to collect enough stars to eventually travel back to previous stages to collect others stars.
i never liked him much in the first place.
It wouldn't be a post by Lauren without a rape mention.
Well spoken.
i sorta enjoyed smb64 more than galaxy but that can als