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What we want to see in Batman: Arkham Asylum 2 photo

With the surprise announcement of Arkham Asylum 2 at last night's Spike TV Video Game Awards show, we at Destructoid couldn't help but tremble with excitement, many of us doing so while wearing official Batman pajama pants (and by "many of us," I mean "me and only me").

It almost goes without saying that Arkham Asylum was a triumph not just for comic book games, but for the stealth-action genre in general; it proved that stealth doesn't have to be slow-paced and needlessly punishing, while -- for the most part -- showing a respect to the Batman mythos that made even the Batman-pajama-pant-wearing crowd blush in nerd inferiority.

What of the sequel, then? What do we want to see out of Arkham Asylum 2, and what do we want to see fixed from the first game? The following requests are as fanboyish as they are pretentious (far as we know, our ideas could be really, really bad), but it stands to be said: we loved the first game, and the sequel announcement has gotten us in an excited, list-writing sort of mood.

Hit the jump to see our Arkham Asylum 2 wishlist.

Clayface

Basil Karlo, aka Clayface, had a brief but hilariously cool cameo in the first Arkham Asylum: trapped in his prison cell and initially appearing to the player as Commissioner Gordon, his true identity was only revealed after a detective mode scan.

We'd love to see some more of him. In both the comics and the TV show, Clayface was a damned enjoyable villain; sure, he didn't represent Big Philosophical Ideas in the same way the Joker or the Penguin did, but come on -- he's a shapeshifting psychopath with a body made of mud. What's not to like? Clayface could easily play a similar role in Arkham Asylum 2 to that of Bane in the first game; a character who doesn't really represent anything so much as a balls-to-the-wall boss battle. Or, even better, he could play the same sort of tricks he did in the first game, but with much greater consequences to gameplay. Imagine having to figure out whether the Commissioner Gordon standing in front of you was the real deal, or simply a mud-based facsimile.

Actually, that sounds a little too much like this. Bad idea. Forget that last part. Come to think of it, forget the "make him exactly like Bane" part as well, because we definitely need:

 

Better boss battles

ere

This is the obvious critique, but it still has to be said. The boss battles in Arkham Asylum should have represented the very few times when Batman was outmatched, overpowered, and actually in a position of weakness; instead, they were either really easy (Killer Croc), really repetitive (Poison Ivy), or both (Bane, the Joker). Batman spends the entirety of Arkham Asylum as an unstoppable face-punching force, so why not throw some boss battles that really change up the power dynamics and force Bats back onto the ropes?

 

Greater difficulty

Come to think of it, much of the game's later half suffered from a drop in difficulty. Once you'd upgraded Bats with the uber-batarang and uber-batclaw, you could more or less sleepwalk your way through many of the stealth sections (the high-consequence, "don't get spotted even once or we'll shoot this civilian" setpieces notwithstanding). While putting Batman in a position of total superiority over the thug enemies isn't necessarily a bad thing -- he is the Goddamned Batman -- the lack of difficulty and enhanced bat-gadgets dissuaded players from coming up with interesting strategies during the stealth section.

To this day, my favorite moment in Arkham Asylum occurred during the first half of the game, when I had nothing but a single batarang to my name. With great care, I silently took down a thug near an electrical fence. When his three buddies rushed up to check on him, I simultaneously floored one of them with a batarang to the face while initiating a glide kick on the second baddie. My kick landed perfectly and not only sent my target into the dirt, but the impact of the kick actually knocked the final bad guy into the electric fence, instantly knocking him out. In the span of three seconds, I'd knocked out three bad guys with nothing more than a single batarang and a well-placed kick to the face. Unfortunately, once I could throw eleventy billion batarangs at once and pull people off ledges without breaking a sweat, I never had the opportunity to do anything that cool again.

 

A continuation of the "less is more" philosophy

ere

The first Arkham Asylum intentionally neglected to include Batmobile or Batwing driving sequences.

Fucking good.

The last thing Arkham Asylum 2 needs is a bunch of awkward driving sequences that serve only to frustrate the player and lead to another bullet point on the back of the box. The first game only did two or three things, but it did them really damn well: the stealth was fantastic, the fighting was great, and the atmosphere was cool. Sequels love to add needless extra shit just for the sake of doing so (see: San Andreas), and we'd hate to see Arkham Asylum go that route.

 

An equally kickass atmosphere

"Arkham has moved."

On the one hand, how exciting -- moved where? Given the fiery streets and general atmosphere of chaos, is the trailer implying that the entire city of Gotham is now an extension of Arkham Asylum? If so, does that mean we'll be looking at a more sandboxy-style game than the first Arkham? We can't say for sure until we get more info beyond a teaser trailer and a vague Web site.

Still, wherever Arkham has moved, we really, really hope it maintains the same atmosphere of decay and griminess and instability that caused so many reviewers to compare it to BioShock's Rapture.

 

A better-integrated detective mode

Arkham Asylum's detective mode was so useful, we never turned it off. I'm sure you can relate. While it was great to be able to see enemies through walls and immediately identify breakable parts of the environment, looking at the world through a perpetual filter of blue quickly became tiresome. If the detective mode could be tweaked to allow the same level of functionality without compromising all the work the graphic artists put into the world, we'd feel even more immersed in the Arkham atmosphere.


More emphasis on the less face-punchy aspects of Batman's character

ere

I have yet to run into a single person who really, truly enjoyed the ending of Arkham Asylum. Much of this probably has to do with the fact that the actual climactic fight isn't particularly different from any of the other boss battles, but even more of it has to do with the fact that it simply didn't feel right from a character-based perspective.

Batman is about punching people and sneaking in the shadows and grunting things, yes. Equally, however, he and his villains are representations of philosophies, and systems, and fears, and ideas. Batman isn't just a dude in a funny suit; he's  what happens when humanity is confronted with mindless evil and tragedy, and chooses to fight back against that evil (while struggling to stay separate from it). The Joker isn't just a funny dude in creepy makeup; as depicted in The Dark Knight and The Killing Joke, he's Batman's philosophical opposite. A man who saw the idiotic horror and unfairness of life, and chose to embrace it, to nurture it, to become a parody of it. These mythic attributes are why Batman still endures -- the face-punching is almost secondary, and to assume otherwise ultimately results in the sort of narrative missteps Arkham Asylum's climax suffered from.

Now, don't get me wrong, Rocksteady. We want the face-punching. We love the face-punching. But we'd also love to see more thematically complex characters and conflicts. Give us Frank Miller, but don't be afraid to add a dash or two of Alan Moore.








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79 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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next 50 comments

Ashaard's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:02
Ashaard
Can't wait for Batman AA 2. First one was outstanding!
Jacob Payne's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:09
Jacob Payne
I would put realistic character models on there as well.
Chris Carter's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:12
Chris Carter
All; literally, all I want, is a harder difficulty setting, with challenge rooms that are more like MW2's Spec Ops, and less "copy paste" laziness.
Clown Baby's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:15
Clown Baby
I'd like to see Harley Quinn play a bigger role, and I'm hoping the "Arkham has moved" is basically into Gotham itself as it seems and gets the same semi-sandbox attitude.
TheRemix's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:16
TheRemix
Needs more Scarecrow!
Jon B's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:16
Jon B
I'm imagining a Crackdown: Batman of sorts.

It is quite glorious, but I'm not sure if I really want it. Batman:AA is one of the best games to come out in a fair while in the stealthy/actiony genre, and as such is a great game by its own merit.

That said, I couldn't agree more with your above points, but if "Arkham has moved" to the city, then it looks like driving vehicles is kinda a given. From a gameplay perspective, you might want to keep it simple, but from a character perspective, the Batmobile is possibly one of the most iconic vehicles in history, it would make sense to include it.
Havoc Fang's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:17
Havoc Fang
Everything on this site and everywhere else makes me feel really modest.

I.E Well written article!
Jesus H Christ's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:23
Jesus H Christ
More punks to eat for breakfast.
's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:23
Diyana
GRUNDY!
Overcrowd's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:28
Overcrowd
Yeah, moar Scarecrow.
timtheterrible's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:34
timtheterrible
"sure, he didn't represent Big Philosophical Ideas in the same way the Joker or the Penguin did"

What Philosophical ideas are represented by the Penguin? Do you mean the Batman Returns Penguin?
accidentprone88's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 13:46
accidentprone88
Solid list, though I could do without any dashes of Alan Moore-completely overrated and the Killing Joke is almost as equally overrated. I thought the Man Who Laughs was far superior.

They could just give AA2 a new coat of paint and I'd still buy it and love it, but a few changes you didn't mention would be nice. Maybe a new major villain (Two-Face, plz?), no Robin or Nightwing (hell no), a story that doesn't crap out at the end, in addition to what you mentioned, would be aces.

Also, and maybe this is just me, but a greater emphasis on mystery and the detective aspects would be incredible. The trailer looked chaotic, so I'm assuming it'll be more of a "here's a bad guy and his henchmen. Take 'em all down" scenario, but I'm thinking something along the lines of Hush or the Long Halloween where you actually have to solve a mystery would be amazing.
KirbyMcDope's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 15:53
KirbyMcDope
I think batmobile will be in included in AA2, but only as a gateway to different districts of Gotham. So it won't be a sandbox game, I hate fucking sandboxes. Although an open world would be awesome, but it's really hard to execute, considering this is a Batman game. I mean, it's hard to make a good Batman game in first place, because it's pretty simple with Spider-Man or Wolverine, but Batman has a lot of cool gadgets, he's stealthy, he also swings, so there's a lot of shit to cover and Rocksteady did a great job. Also I don't think sandbox is possible with Unreal engine. I remember playing Batman and Robin game on my PS back in a day, that was fucking painful.
And I don't really like what Miller did with Batman, it was okay, but not that good, so I wish they'll stick to grantmorrisonesque style and a dash of Alan Moore would be nice too.
TOEmastro's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:12
TOEmastro
Idea: dont call it Arkham asylum 2, call it .. i donno,

Batman: Gothem City
Sentry's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:14
Sentry
Nothing about the limitations of the engine and how HUGE a freaking disconnect it was to hear flawlessly delivered dialogue juxtaposed against the sight of faces making strange, disparate contortions (within incredibly tight shots)?
KingSigy's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:23
KingSigy
Boss Battles that don't repeat is all I want. I would have been fine with the limited combat if I didn't have to reuse the same tactics ad naseum. It really brought the game down for me.
matrixdude171's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:27
matrixdude171
It was awesome gameplay, although I would prefer if they had allowed more hidden bosses.
king kong five's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:33
king kong five
So pumped!
jboking's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:35
jboking
Frank Miller with a Dash of Allen Moore is a great way to put what I'd like to see in Batman: AA2. I really hate the ending of the first game...
Static Jak's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:53
Static Jak
I hope it isn't something like a sandbox game but rather a section of Gotham or something like that which could be closed off for whatever reason.
bluemeep's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:56
bluemeep
You know what I want? Adam West DLC. Replace Bats with his Westian counterpart, Hamill's Joker with Romero's and so forth. I would buy the shit out of that.
alastair jack's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 17:58
alastair jack
Just needs more quick time events, a less complicated fighting system, more detective work, more linear exploration etc.
Xzyliac's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:05
Xzyliac
Amen on the less is more. Amen.
Technophile's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:05
Technophile
I agree with this 100%
jadenguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:07
jadenguy
How the last boss battle could have been greatly improved? If he'd have injected Gordon with the syrum and you had to somehow fight Gordon without fighting Gordon, and somehow parlaying your not hurting him into hurting the Joker, maybe somehow having faith that Gordon could overcome the "drives you insane" part of the syrum instead of somehow flexing your muscles and brain into keeping the syrum from turning you into a monster part of the syrum? I guess boss battles really were kinda hit and miss...
X3Ent3nte's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:14
X3Ent3nte
needs a morality system. batman's appearance will change according to his karma levels. ie, he'll develop glowing red eyes and devil like protusions from his suit if you act evil. Needs more scarecrow aswell. Also, Robin.
xenon's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:20
xenon
Well, I didn't even upgrade the batarang to the limit, and I didn't play with Detective Mode always on. Easy way to make the game more enjoyable! But yes, removing the temptation would be better design.
X3Ent3nte's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:21
X3Ent3nte
^\sarcasm
Kalmah's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:26
Kalmah
Agree with Clayface bit.
Steve Cebu's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:32
Steve Cebu
I think keeping out driving/racing is a good thing. Make a game where you fly all the gadgets and keep them out of the action game. The best they could do would be Uncharted 1's jetski crap. Which was awful.
I thought the difficulty levels on the bosses was just right and you could amp it up via difficulty levels. If they blow it and make the diffuiculty levels for teh 13-25 year olds then most of us who were playing Atari 2600's as teens would be unable to finish the game. This excessive difficulty BS which is for hardcore younger gamers with super fast reflexes is now why you have games that play themselves.
Older gamers like myself who have been playing since the very beginning don't want to be locked out of newer games because we can't keep up with a 13 year olds response time.
I felt the difficulty level was just right in Arkham Asylum. Some people at my work thought it was too tough even on Easy. Those people won't buy the second game because of that. Lost sales = less chance of another game.
Make the enviroment bigger, but I don't see how they could improve upon this game very much, except by adding a larger area and more baddies.
Detective mode was awesome, I never shut it off. But if they dumb it down so you run out of battery power that would be stupid but typical. Limited use is stupid. Batman takes on a ton of bad guys with a few gadgets, awesome fighting moves, and stealth. But he has no one to save his ass and no guns to bail him out. Making it tougher than it was is unrealistic IMO.
Ronsauce's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 18:43
Ronsauce
"I have yet to run into a single person who really, truly enjoyed the ending of Arkham Asylum...it has to do with the fact that it simply didn't feel right from a character-based perspective."
I disagree. Pretty much everything about that ending made sense with respect to both Batman and Joker. What's more chaotic than a full on brawl between a monstrous Batman and Joker(which would go a ways to tarnish Batman's image since it was being televised)? Batman putting himself at a disadvantage by not indulging the Joker seemed in character as well.
"But we'd also love to see more thematically complex characters and conflicts."
I think you and your hipster, pretentious nuthugger fanboys want this.
covah's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 19:24
covah
One fucking word

HUSH

Best newer batman villain in fucking years.

I also want it to be more open world, I really hope its not confined to a smaller space again. A gang war in gotham would be awesome, rip off "Battle for the Cowl's" setting and have two face/penguin going at it with Black Mask fucking things up, mix in Joker and Hush and I will come in my pants too many times to count.

I also wouldn't mind Dick, Tim, and Jason in it. Catwoman as an anti hero

basically... I want everything.
StingingVelvet's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 19:31
StingingVelvet
I still think this is absurdly soon. I really hate the expansion pack as sequel trend and this is a massive example of it.

That said make it in a more open area more often and throw in some more detective elements and I will love it anyway.

I guess I am part of the problem.
King Chrono's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 19:39
King Chrono
Batman:AA is definitely in my top 5 favorite games of this generation. However, that doesn't mean it didn't come with disappointment. My only real turn off was some of the boss battles and I completely agree with Anthony. I want challenging, inventive, and unique gameplay out of my bosses.

As for new game ideas, I would like to see some of the stand-offs be solved psychologically. Instead of quick time events, imagine a dialogue tree (similar to that of Mass Effect) which you try to talk down your enemies into a vulnerable position. Choosing the right words could mean the difference between a good or bad outcome. You could twist Posion Ivy's plant obsessions, turn Scarface against the Ventriloquist, or even complete the difficult task to get Mister Freeze emotionally compromised.
timtheterrible's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 19:42
timtheterrible
@ X3Ent3nte

Please be joking.
fundando's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 20:10
fundando
I trust Rocksteady to deliver. The last game was soo good and I'm sure those guys already have a good idea of where they are going witht the game. I will wait and be surprised.
DarkTravesty's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 20:43
DarkTravesty
oswald chesterfield copperpot *cough*
Mecha Six VII's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:14
Mecha Six VII
<comicgeek>

my only critique of this is the frank miller comment

Frank Miller isn't all grit and face-punching, and it bugs me when people see him that way, there is an obvious straighforward brilliance to alan moore, but one thing he does frequently is make some things overt (that's not saying he doesn't have subtlety). Frank Miller's batman (in dark knight returns and year one) was all about adding a sense of realism to batman. Batman wasn't just a playful scamp with a bunch of toys, he'd seen horrors and performs horrors, he is horror.

His Joker (in dark knight returns) isn't just a run of the mill baddie, he is misanthropy incarnate, he kills not because he has reason to kill, he kills because he can, and quite frequently, he kills out of spite. In Dark Knight Returns, he plots to kill several children with joker toxin, why? because he wants to, in order to spite batman, he murders because he knows that by murdering, he is performing actions against batman, that is super-villainy.

Think about it, what do supervillians usually do, they rob banks, they have plots to fight superheros, they go straight after the superheros, they fight the superheros head-on, hell, Lex Luthor once built a Kryptonite powered suit just to fight superman face to face.

What does the Joker do?
he kills children while laughing hysterically, he does it, because batman protects the people, and by killing children, he is spiting batman.

What else does the Joker do?
He fucking kills himself, to make batman look like a murderer, and he does it while laughing.
He does it out of pure fucking hatred of batman

Chaos doesn't just actively work to disrupt Order driving it to become Chaos itself
Chaos fucking hates Order.

</comicgeek>
Markusdragon's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:15
Markusdragon
"don't be afraid to add a dash or two of Alan Moore."

Rape scenes?
MountainGorilla's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:22
MountainGorilla
I got the feeling halfway through the first game that the Joker's plan more or less amounted to "lock Batman on the island and see what happens." I realize there's an anarchic appearance to everything the character does, but compare the events of AA to the grand, sweeping schemes of Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight. So long as they actually give the Joker a plan this time around (and so long as it isn't Arkham Island again, but somewhere in Gotham), things should be awesome. Boss battles could improve a lot, too.

I didn't exactly notice the difficulty leveling out, but I played through on hard my first time. I loved that decision; I really did feel like the Batman, odds stacked against me. You can't really hide from enemies with guns if you happen to get spotted, as you're dead in two bursts. And you can't miss more than a few counters in each fight, since damage is increased so much. I definitely recommend anyone who hasn't played it yet, play through on hard for your first time if you really want the "I am BATMAN!" experience.
AceFlibble's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:32
AceFlibble
Why make a list when there's only one thing that matters?

MOAR HARLEY QUINN
Gee-Man's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:34
Gee-Man
Just give me Two-Face, Black Mask, Clayface, The Riddler (in physical form), and a real Gotham to protect and I'll be pleased.
JLanphear's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:46
JLanphear
So excited for this game, but for the record: Frank Miller is fncking terrible.
mrplow8's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 21:48
mrplow8
I hope they have challenge maps for more characters than just Batman and Joker this time. It would be cool to have challenge maps where you play as Scarecrow and use your fear gas to make the cops shoot eachother.
SephirothX's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 22:00
SephirothX
The game needs the Matt Hagan version of Clayface from Batman: TAS, easily the best version of the character.

Also, more Scarecrow. He stole the show the first time around.

I wouldnt mind a driving sequence if it was done simply for cinematic purposes, as in driving to Arkham at the start of the first game.
Xzyliac's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 22:29
Xzyliac
@StingingVelvet
Respectfully how do know this is just an expansion equivalent. And as far as soon I think a lot of people are acting like this coming out tomorrow. All they're doing is teasing it. Shit, you can tease it with a fucking PowerPoint. Black screen, white text, and a deep growly voice.

Unless you're saying a year is too soon and I'm assuming you're assuming. Assumptions are risky business.
readbigwordsisgood's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 22:30
readbigwordsisgood
red poison ivy bush is my vote
Mike Clyne's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 22:37
Mike Clyne
Give us Catwoman, more Harley Quinn face time than she got in the first and absolutely NO ROBIN and I'm a happy camper.
smurfee mcgee's Avatar - Comment posted on 12/14/2009 22:44
smurfee mcgee
What about Alfred? Am I missing where exactly in time this takes place, or did they just leave Alfred out for no reason? Minor, but Alfred, sir.

I think Two-face is in it, so that's nice.
Also, No Man's Land.
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