Got news?   tips@destructoid.com  |  Never miss a story:   RSS + Twitter + YouTube
Hey! New here? Destructoid is a gaming discussion community, updated nearly every 20 minutes. Make a quick avatar to comment and enter our contests. Take the tour!

 


Home Geek Essentials updates

Weekend Reading: Pen and paper versus console RPGs, part 1

12:32 PM on 06.24.2007, Brad Rice 18 comments

Weekend Reading: Pen and paper versus console RPGs, part 1 photo
     Geek Essentials

The first part in Leigh's "Building a better RPG" mini-series got me to thinking about storytelling in RPGs. I agreed with some of the points in her article, especially the fact that nowadays, the stories are so filled out and laid before you, that there's little room for invention and imagination within it. Since I had just gotten done with a session of playing GURPS (it's a pen and paper RPG, for all those wondering), I got to thinking about the differences between the two, and thus this article was born.

So, for this week, I'll be taking a look at storytelling in both console and pen and paper RPGs. This'll look at both older and newer RPGs, and compare them to the various RPG systems. So, prepare for the unabashed nerd-dom that's lurking beyond the jump.

First off, before things get started, I want to give an e-job to Steve Jackson and the people who work on GURPS. They've managed to put together an awesome pen and paper system that's made me a hardcore fan, and shown how limited D&D and World of Darkness can be. I really do emplore you, if you play pen and paper RPGs, to go give GURPS a shot. Most stores don't carry them, so you'd just have to pick up Characters and Campaigns from their site or from Amazon.

Now that that's out of the way, let's get down to business. One of the really important things about RPGs is the ability to place yourself within the character -- if there are too many things built up around the character, then it makes it all the harder to become attached to them. I think that was my problem with Final Fantasy X -- I had to discover too much about the character before I could grow to like him. It was like reading a book, where I formed a relationship with the character, but not the right kind.

What is the right kind of relationship? Well, simply, it's one where you feel like you are the character. I think many games that have you create your own character, or even give you some level of customization at the beginning of the game, will allow you to have a more vested interest in the person. In fact, the more abstract they are, the more attached a person can become. To draw from my Japanator knowledge for a moment:

In the anime Genshiken, Madarame gives a speech to Kasukabe, who complains about her boyfriend having hentai and ero-ge in his room, and how, "It's porn! But it's anime! It's anime and porn!" He draws the above images on the window, and proceeds to explain that even though they're crude symbols, we can understand what they represent, and can create a full image from these simplistic drawings. So, much like how he explains why people like hentai, the same argument goes for a character in a game. Since you have this abstract representation of a person that you are controlling, and that you have named, you're more apt to attaching to him.

Now, in comparison to a pen and paper game, you're making the character from scratch, only bound by the confines of the scenario (and the GM not allowing you to take certain advantages/disadvantages). This doesn't mean that you'll automatically take to the character, though. Oddly enough, one character that I created, Dick McVengeance, I didn't have a great attachment to. What I've learned, though, is that the more you know about the setting when making the character, the more developed they can become. So, I think that if designers just give us some level of customization with the character, then it'd create a better sentiment on the player's end.

Now, I know this can't be done all the time, but don't get rid of it completely -- at least let us name all our characters, and try to balance out everyone that we can have join our party, so that it's not like we feel even more of the story is being forced on us, instead of unfolding in front of us.

So, about the Baron...

The social aspect of playing the game also helps. I'm playing a game with my friends, and it allows us to sit and dick around, have fun side-quests, and even torture each other (the GM, especially). Sometimes, the characters evolve themselves in our minds, and become something of epic stories. Even after the game is done, so many in-jokes have risen up that they become regular things of mention. Not only do I feel a great emotional attachment to my friends who I RP with, but also with my characters, as they essentially become an extension of me.

Now, what about time-wise? Leigh mentioned, much to some peoples' displeasure, that no one wants to play a 60-hour RPG. She's right, though. I mean, I'd sit there and play it for two weeks, trying to beat the game at a fairly rapid pace. Battles only take minutes, or maybe a half hour, and the plot moves along fairly well. Sure, it feels like forever, but take a quick look at it from a pen and paper perspective. Battles can take several hours (we just went through one that lasted until 2am, when everyone wanted to leave at 12). All of that is stretched out over a long period of time, though. Even if you play every week, it will take several months to complete something that's the scale of any console RPG.

So, what's my point in all this? Well, I think that recent RPGs have failed in creating an attachment to the character because of the lack of opportunities to create a vested interest with the character. It's really become too much like reading a book or watching a movie -- all you're doing is paying money to see someone tell you a story, and you've got to press X at the right moments. Meanwhile, pen and paper games allow for immediate emotional attachment. The downside is that you'll be going through a story for much longer (and there's guaranteed to be much more filler in the pen and paper games), although that can be a good thing, depending on how you like the scenario.

This isn't all I have to say on the subject, though. Next week, I'm going to talk about comparing gameplay in both systems, followed by a final piece wrapping everything up and responding to as much of the criticism that I can. I hope you enjoyed and I'll see you next week!


Next page: More Role Playing Games stories




Faith's Avatar
Faith at 06/24/2007 13:36
I like pen and paper games just because it was a group activity. My friends and I would sit around, drink and battle the Gods of Old in Rifts or fight of the Sabbat in Vampire: The Masquerade.

I miss table top but I would feel weird playing LARP or table top RPGs at my age. I prefer to play RPGs in my home where no one can see me oogling Sir Aaron in FFX.
FireofEvil's Avatar
FireofEvil at 06/24/2007 14:43
Can someone tell me what the hell is that symbol on the left?
Silverhertz's Avatar
Silverhertz at 06/24/2007 14:49
I get attached to a lot of the characters I make, largely because unlike most computer based RPG's you can give your character different quirks an traits that are unique to that character alone, and actually playing and acting out the character with a bunch of people can be a lot more fun than pointing & clicking or pressing a button alone.

Liking the article, agree with you on the investment of time in P&P....cant remember how many times campaigns have been left unfinished or I'd plow bored through a bunch of other peoples games just so I could get back to playing a character I really liked. Cant say I ever liked GURPS that much, but had a shit GM so probablly didnt help. Love playing White Wolf, largely because the DM KNEW HIS SHIT and made some really fun and interesting games. Looking forward to the next installment DMV!
Justin Villasenor's Avatar
Justin Villasenor at 06/24/2007 15:23
The easiest way a p&p game can start sucking would be a bad DM or bad group members. If both are good then chances are everyone will have a great time whichever system is being used, be it LotFR, Serenity or whatever.
Harsgault's Avatar
Harsgault at 06/24/2007 15:35
This is why I like the 3rd RPG outlet. The Multi User Shared Halucination or MUSH. More complex than an internet chat room, and lets players focus on their character's stories more than stats, game engines, or dice. It appears to be a slowly dying breed of game, though there are still MU's out there for just about every theme and/or concept you could want to be part of. Best of all, you are not limited by your local population. Able to link up for some good RP with folks all over the globe.
s0lesurviv0r's Avatar
s0lesurviv0r at 06/24/2007 18:18
I used to attend Magic: The Gathering tournaments at a place that had a P&PRPG group that met around the same time we played. I have to admit I envied them laughing and sharing pizza while I got my expensive researched and tested deck torn apart by a 7th grader.
Necros's Avatar
Necros at 06/24/2007 18:21
OMG EVERY1 NOWS THAT CONSOL RPGS R BETTER CUZ THEY HAV BETTER GRAPHICALS LOLOLOL
Detry's Avatar
Detry at 06/24/2007 19:08
NWN?
theRat's Avatar
theRat at 06/24/2007 20:20
It's a nekkid woman. I loved that scene in Genshiken.
Anyway, I have always meant to get into P&PRPG, but I just don't have the time. Aditionally, I must admit I have never beaten a console RPG, mainly because levelling bores me to death, and I get the story by watching my power-levelling brother beat the game.
The trouble with heavy customizing in RPGs is that it makes telling the story difficult in a way. I clearly remember in FFX that nobody called the player by its custiomizable name, it was all "That guy" and "Jecht's son".
In favor, just look at WoW. People really connect to their avatars. Also, Monster Hunter.
sleepycat's Avatar
sleepycat at 06/24/2007 23:01
Sadly, getting a good group together for a proper table-top session is almost as difficult as organizing a 40-man raid in WoW, at least at my age.

With the latter, at least you're not trundling yourself off to your friends house with dice in tow once a week, just plopping yourself down at your computer to *clicky*click* for a few hours.

I do miss the camaraderie of the round-table gaming though. It was a lot of fun, and far more unique characters are built and inhabited when you can just, you know, imagine them instead of being stuck with an unchangeable one on screen.
alexkorova's Avatar
alexkorova at 06/25/2007 03:30
This is why I like games like Fallout and Fable so much (well, Fable, not that much, but I like its ideas), you build your character and you have a lot of choices on what do to do etc. It feels much more like a real world, that you are role playing somebody in a real world instead of just following a script.
wardrox's Avatar
wardrox at 06/25/2007 07:10
Very good read :-)

I must confess, I am a relative noob when it comes to P&P games, RPGs especially. I think I find it hard to get into the ones I play with my friends because, or me anyway, it just seems to take too long to do anything. The last game I played took 6-7 hours just to setup. I guess though, it does always depend on the DM and other players.
reddye_5's Avatar
reddye_5 at 06/25/2007 09:52
Look, I read...

A lot.

So, its kinda funny, but it seems I like Console RPGs for the very reason that most don't like them. The book like story. When it has unique twists and keeps me wondering about what's going to happen next, I really enjoy it. (FF4,5,6,7 and Tales of Symphonia spring immediately to mind...)

But, maybe I'm just weird that way.
Seithon's Avatar
Seithon at 06/25/2007 19:11
Well I like console RPG's, but I've not played any in ages, nor am I likely to again for sometime.

As for DnD and such.. well The creative aspect IS what fuels it. For example I ran intoa boss by myself which would have killed me in 2 hits, in a console RPG that means its time to reload and go grind up, but in this game I used my monks speed to run, and the beserking boss ran after me until he wore himself out at which point I was able to beat him :P you wouldnt get that in a console RPG unless it was scripted in.
bunnyrabbit2's Avatar
bunnyrabbit2 at 07/02/2007 07:12
Just read this for the first time. Good article. I belong to the Gamer's Society at my Uni and they are a mix of P&P RPGers and video gamers. I started to run D20 Modern (A great P&P rpg that I recommend to any P&P RPG noobs that want to start playing some). I ended up with all the video gamers in my group while the old school RPGers played Deadlands. I have noticed a big difference between our play style and theirs. They tend to take a few weeks to finish one adventure, we can sometimes go through two in single night. This is just because the adventures I write are small so they do not get bored. We still have a lot of fun and have had some pretty funny stuff happen (like when one guy almost got sat on by a giant sloth).

One reason I think P&P RPGs will always be slightly better than console/PC RPGs is because literally anything can happen and, as long as it is within the rules or the GM allows it, the players can do anything they want
prev next

Returning Dtoiders: login now to post a comment

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just Create an avatar now - it's fast and free: PLUS you also get your own gaming blog and begin posting stories and uploading videos in our open community area that may also appear on our home page. Sign up and we'll guide you through it, it's easy and 100% anonymous.




 Original Videos

 Reviews
Mad Dog McCree Gunslinger Pack
Overlord II
Yosumin Live!
Let's Tap
Ghostbusters: The Video Game (Wii)
View all Game Reviews

 Community blogs -   39702 Dtoiders!

This month's theme: Untapped Potential

New to Dtoid? Read the survival guide


 Originals

Retroforce Recap: so what about those dirty games, now?











more original Destructoid stories



 Popular now more













Destructoid is:
Nick Chester
Editor-in-Chief
Jim Sterling
Reviews Editor
Dale North
News Editor
Hamza Aziz
Community Manager
Anthony Burch
Features Editor
Rey Gutierrez
Video editor & director
Niero
Founder, publisher
Letters to the editors
tips@destructoid.com
Associate Editors
Ashley Davis Jonathan Holmes
Brad Nicholson Jonathan Ross
Brad Rice Jordan Devore
Chad Concelmo Matthew Razak
Colette Bennett Tom Fronczak
Conrad Zimmerman Topher Cantler
Dyson Samit Sarkar
Contributors
Adam Dork
Ben Perlee
Daniel Lingen
Joseph Leray
Joe Burling
Mikey
Will Maddock
Stella Wong




get involved

register or login
post a blog
post a forum
enter a contest
discuss a review
contribute a news tip
write a guest editorial
support

new member's guide
login assistance
tech support
report abuse
email our editors
read our dev blog
nuclear crisis?
keep in touch

RSS feed
Twitter
Facebook
Myspace
Flickr
Game nights
Meet-ups
seriously

about us
advertising
terms of use
privacy policy
jobs at MM
buy our crap
our network

Tomopop
Japanator




Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
living the dream since March 16, 2006