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Terrible advice.
How about listening to your fans, being professional, taking in the good, and ignoring the bad without mouthing off like David Jaffe?
How about listening to your fans, being professional, taking in the good, and ignoring the bad without mouthing off like David Jaffe?
Also, a few of these examples mentioned here are relevant, and citing World of Warcraft without any prior research into how Blizzard uses fan feedback was awful.
Blizzard constantly gets new ideas and tweaks for World of Warcraft hotfixes from the forum community, and is even citing the community in official forum posts in regards to some of the changes. If people whine or get angry, Blizzard just listens, doesn't respond, and lets them whine.
In regards to Gearbox, right on, koehler. I remember when the game came out (and was a bug ridden mess), Gearbox literally BANNED people from the forums for speaking out against some known glitches. Way to respect your fans, Gearbox.
That right there is basically a perfect dichotomy of how you should handle your fans. Selective hearing>shunning them.
Blizzard constantly gets new ideas and tweaks for World of Warcraft hotfixes from the forum community, and is even citing the community in official forum posts in regards to some of the changes. If people whine or get angry, Blizzard just listens, doesn't respond, and lets them whine.
In regards to Gearbox, right on, koehler. I remember when the game came out (and was a bug ridden mess), Gearbox literally BANNED people from the forums for speaking out against some known glitches. Way to respect your fans, Gearbox.
That right there is basically a perfect dichotomy of how you should handle your fans. Selective hearing>shunning them.
... but devs should hire someone to read the forums for them. Someone who can track common complaints, maintain a stickied FAQ post, maintain some contact with those angry fans.
There's nothing worst for a gamer than going to a game's official forum and finding absolutely no representation from the developer. No one that answers questions, no one that notifies the gamers that an issue is being looked at, no one that cares... at all. Personally when I find a forum for an upcoming game and the devs aren't present, or don't have a representative present, I'll generally avoid the game. It tells me that they either don't have a decent budget, or don't care and likely won't support the game after release.
They simply need to either hire an intermediatory who has the skills to remain calm, write "political" messages that seem to be open and communicative while only saying what needs to be said (and nothing more) and doesn't get angry. The devs need to be aware of common issues... not some individuals complaint that his gun doesn't kill anybody - but common complaints, like the SVER Dom map being overpowered compared to all the other maps.
I don't think devs have to read their own forums... but they NEED to hear the information in their forums. It allows them to concentrate on the things the majority of gamers perceive as a problem and also allows them to note issues that can be corrected for their next game. It's a valuable feedback tool that shouldn't be overlooked... and any dev that does overlook this and doesn't bother listening to their fans - then they simply don't deserve to have fans.
Insomniac, Incognito, even Homefront... they all have a "face" present in the forums who represents and speaks to and on behalf of the dev team. This encourages gamer loyalty.
There's nothing worst for a gamer than going to a game's official forum and finding absolutely no representation from the developer. No one that answers questions, no one that notifies the gamers that an issue is being looked at, no one that cares... at all. Personally when I find a forum for an upcoming game and the devs aren't present, or don't have a representative present, I'll generally avoid the game. It tells me that they either don't have a decent budget, or don't care and likely won't support the game after release.
They simply need to either hire an intermediatory who has the skills to remain calm, write "political" messages that seem to be open and communicative while only saying what needs to be said (and nothing more) and doesn't get angry. The devs need to be aware of common issues... not some individuals complaint that his gun doesn't kill anybody - but common complaints, like the SVER Dom map being overpowered compared to all the other maps.
I don't think devs have to read their own forums... but they NEED to hear the information in their forums. It allows them to concentrate on the things the majority of gamers perceive as a problem and also allows them to note issues that can be corrected for their next game. It's a valuable feedback tool that shouldn't be overlooked... and any dev that does overlook this and doesn't bother listening to their fans - then they simply don't deserve to have fans.
Insomniac, Incognito, even Homefront... they all have a "face" present in the forums who represents and speaks to and on behalf of the dev team. This encourages gamer loyalty.
Can we all please promise not to call anyone a "nerd" on any blog? The pot and kettle have to stay united!
@jackburnt
The pot alliance refuses to sully itself with the kettle empire any longer. We refuse to be bowed by your tyranny, tyrant.
The pot alliance refuses to sully itself with the kettle empire any longer. We refuse to be bowed by your tyranny, tyrant.
I work for a software/hardware company that occasionally makes it onto tech news sites. I actually think its necessary to read peoples feedback. There are A LOT of misinformed posters that I immediately dismiss. In fact, I'd wager that a gross majority of the internet talks out of its ass to try and appear intelligent, but among the screaming hordes there are a few smart naysayers.
Feedback is valuable to the game developer. However, just because you can play a video game doesn't mean you have the aptitude and creativity to create one. Often a gamer doesn't know what he/she likes till some game developer comes out with a brand new game and the gamer goes "awesome!"
I agree that a game totally dictated by the whims of the fans would be terrible. Good games, like any good work of art, are usually the result of a single person or close team who have a specific vision and stick to it.
However, the tricky territory is with sequels, as often the team changes, and new people take the reigns who really don't understand what made the previous game a success. In those circumstances you should look to the fans at least a bit to understand the heart of the series (or better, you should *be* a fan).
For sequels, fan consensus is very helpful, and if the changes you're making are getting wide criticism with little positive excitement, then you should probably be implementing those idesas with an original IP instead...
However, the tricky territory is with sequels, as often the team changes, and new people take the reigns who really don't understand what made the previous game a success. In those circumstances you should look to the fans at least a bit to understand the heart of the series (or better, you should *be* a fan).
For sequels, fan consensus is very helpful, and if the changes you're making are getting wide criticism with little positive excitement, then you should probably be implementing those idesas with an original IP instead...
There is always a third option.
You have to take the community as whole, dip in from time to time, and don't get involved in heaty discussions. That's what cummunity managers are for
You have to take the community as whole, dip in from time to time, and don't get involved in heaty discussions. That's what cummunity managers are for
Meh, I can't blame him. The internet is full of people venting their rage that they lack the courage to vent in reality. Makes for a rather unsociable and unproductive environment.
Elsa is right. I haven't been there in a long time, but Blizzard used to handle WoW feedback by having a team of moderators that collected data to pass on to development. That way, developers didn't have to sift through the whole haystack. Sounds like the ideal way to deal with forums, really.
I agree with Elsa and Magnalon. Just reading the Bungie.net forums will make anyone want to rip their eyes out at some of the stupidity being thrown around,
and there are tons of threads of people "quitting halo for good" (why do we care?), even more threads about "ARMOR LOCK IT'S THE WORST THING EVER" in all caps, as well as "DMR BLOOM IT ENCOURAGES NOOB TACTICS" in all caps.
however underneath all that junk, I actually read a legitimate thread recently, about how in previous halos, you had an indicator telling you when your flag was gone from your base. This is gone in Halo Reach, and the thread simply asked, why was it removed? it was a very well thought out and well written post.
Now I don't even know if bungie was able to see that thread because of DMR BLOOM ARMOR LOCK AAAAAAAAHHHHHH, but I kinda hope the were able to, because a simple thing like that would make the game much more playable for all the players who love objective gametypes.
and there are tons of threads of people "quitting halo for good" (why do we care?), even more threads about "ARMOR LOCK IT'S THE WORST THING EVER" in all caps, as well as "DMR BLOOM IT ENCOURAGES NOOB TACTICS" in all caps.
however underneath all that junk, I actually read a legitimate thread recently, about how in previous halos, you had an indicator telling you when your flag was gone from your base. This is gone in Halo Reach, and the thread simply asked, why was it removed? it was a very well thought out and well written post.
Now I don't even know if bungie was able to see that thread because of DMR BLOOM ARMOR LOCK AAAAAAAAHHHHHH, but I kinda hope the were able to, because a simple thing like that would make the game much more playable for all the players who love objective gametypes.
What theory do you need? Just don't go to the forums. But I don't agree with Vogel's advice. If you don't listen to your fans, you risk alienating them. The fans are what make your games lucrative. Sure you don't need to apply every single one of their ideas, but sometimes fans do know what's best for a game.
I don't think all people of a dev team need to expose themselves to fan hatred to backlash, but plenty of producers make it their job to stay on top of all the fans' positive and negative feedback. I'm sure you can learn how to filter out the nonsense over time.
They should read, but they should know what to expect.
Take things with a grain of salt and try to figure out the haters from the critiques.
Takes a bit more work, but you can get some nice feedback if you can do it.
Take things with a grain of salt and try to figure out the haters from the critiques.
Takes a bit more work, but you can get some nice feedback if you can do it.
He didn't say "ignore the feedback," he said "ignore the shitholes where opinions are accumulated to a surreal lot that is everything and nothing at the same time, and mostly frustrating."
"Keeping your fans at arm's length" are Sterling's words, not Vogel's.
"Keeping your fans at arm's length" are Sterling's words, not Vogel's.
Terrible idea. I'm not going to disagree that many times users have NO IDEA what they really want. But when they ask for something simple, like a face bandanna in Saints Row 2, it is best to just give it to them.
I'm impressed how many people manage to miss completely what he's saying. He's not telling you to ignore your customers, he's saying that forums as a channel for thoughtful discussion is crap (for creators especially). He also stresses this might not be the case for beginners/indie studios, but will ultimately become so after a while as the studio grows.
The majority of thoughtful video game discussion comes from blogs, podcasts etc. and not forums.
Besides, most developers have people who are responsible for weeding out the crap on these forums and making a compilation of what's useful criticism. He's only saying that creators, i.e game directors, designers etc., shouldn't read it. They still get what's valuable criticism from whoever is responsible for the forums.
The majority of thoughtful video game discussion comes from blogs, podcasts etc. and not forums.
Besides, most developers have people who are responsible for weeding out the crap on these forums and making a compilation of what's useful criticism. He's only saying that creators, i.e game directors, designers etc., shouldn't read it. They still get what's valuable criticism from whoever is responsible for the forums.
No listening to the negative is what you need to do. The world we live in isn't full of rainbows, people never mention the positive, because its a given, or else they wouldn't bother talking about something in the first place.do you expect people to only endlessly praise something?
people generally have an easier time saying negative things than positive ones.
Realize that no matter how much right youve done the wrong will ALWAYS be the first thing others see.
people generally have an easier time saying negative things than positive ones.
Realize that no matter how much right youve done the wrong will ALWAYS be the first thing others see.
We (Lunar Giant Studios) check our forums daily, and have been praised on multiple occasions for doing it -- even to the point where people have cited our responsiveness as a specific reason for buying our game. We've had some people come on and say some pretty awful things, but overall, I feel most conversations have been constructive, and have helped us make the game better.
You don't always have to agree with your customers, and in fact, it's best you don't, but ignoring your forums altogether just seems like a cop out.
You don't always have to agree with your customers, and in fact, it's best you don't, but ignoring your forums altogether just seems like a cop out.
most dev studio's have their designated 'Community Manager' now. I know relic have had one for years now, since the first dawn of war went into open beta i'm pretty sure and i'm sure a lot of other studios have the exact same thing now so people that are making the games don't have to expose themselves to the forums.
Im not gamme developer but this man speaks with truth.. interenet trolling it´s something I don´t understand, face to face talking is the only talking I take seriusly
So don't listen to people who pay for your games? Just turn the other cheek and listen to metacritic?
No. Sorry. Wrong.
You get a community manager to work on this shit, like Seth Killian for Capcom or Dan Amrich for Activision. You don't ignore the people who are effectively paying your paycheck. That's fucking stupid. If your feelings are hurt when you go on the internet then it's time to get off the internet.
No. Sorry. Wrong.
You get a community manager to work on this shit, like Seth Killian for Capcom or Dan Amrich for Activision. You don't ignore the people who are effectively paying your paycheck. That's fucking stupid. If your feelings are hurt when you go on the internet then it's time to get off the internet.
Sometimes fans can have legitimate complaints. It would be safe to 'keep an eye' on the things they talk about because sometimes a fan might just suggest a pretty good idea.
However I do agree that fans usually do not know what they're talking about. We have Sonic fans and Transformers fans to thank for that.
However I do agree that fans usually do not know what they're talking about. We have Sonic fans and Transformers fans to thank for that.
I don't think developers should keep away from their forums entirely. I imagine that, like everywhere else in the world, a bunch of assholes can ruin it for the majority. Constructive criticism is always good, and being able to give and receive it on such a forum can only improve future games.
What is difficult however, is weeding through the assholes who can do nothing but complain (and boy, do we as a gaming community love to complain). You'd need to find a way to make sure 'morale' is not affected too much by criticism and complaining, but on the other hand, that the developer does keep an open mind towards suggested improvements.
How to do that?...yeah, that's the hard part.
I think it depends on the mindset of the developing team above all.
The forum community might also be able to balance some of it out. Rephrase complaints into constructive criticism, create debate about the especially good parts of the game, etc.
What is difficult however, is weeding through the assholes who can do nothing but complain (and boy, do we as a gaming community love to complain). You'd need to find a way to make sure 'morale' is not affected too much by criticism and complaining, but on the other hand, that the developer does keep an open mind towards suggested improvements.
How to do that?...yeah, that's the hard part.
I think it depends on the mindset of the developing team above all.
The forum community might also be able to balance some of it out. Rephrase complaints into constructive criticism, create debate about the especially good parts of the game, etc.
I think the right message would be for developers to remember message boards (all across the internet splendor)often act as: 1. Social outlets for folks who don't always have sparkling inter-personal skill or mature aims, and 2. Often will greatly over-magnify opinions of minority subsets of fans.
2 is the more important one to keep in mind. Not bashing the hyper-dedicated, but what can look like an avalanche of opinion for "feature xxxx" can/will often turn out to be something the gaming audience/fan-base at large couldn't care less about (squeezed in MP shows up a lot in this category).
I don't think you want to ignore fans, or at least advertise you ignore them. However, a developer always has to be mindful that their message boards have to be viewed through a couple of common-sense filters.
2 is the more important one to keep in mind. Not bashing the hyper-dedicated, but what can look like an avalanche of opinion for "feature xxxx" can/will often turn out to be something the gaming audience/fan-base at large couldn't care less about (squeezed in MP shows up a lot in this category).
I don't think you want to ignore fans, or at least advertise you ignore them. However, a developer always has to be mindful that their message boards have to be viewed through a couple of common-sense filters.
I agree with him 100%, but not because of the reason he gives.
Devs shouldn't listen to their fans because fans have a habit of not knowing why they like things. I can make a laundry list of games that got worse in their sequels because developers listened to fan reaction, did *exactly* what the fans said, and the sequel turned out awful. It's because gamers, unlike developers, are not paid professionals. They're playing Final Fantasy VII and saying, "I like this because of Sephiroth's big sword and the plot" and then a game is made with the plot aspect highlighted and fans hate it. Because that was never the aspect they *really* liked in the first place.
There's also the whole "compromising artistic integrity" thing by making something for the fans instead of yourself, which is a 100% bad idea people do anyway, but that's related.
Devs shouldn't listen to their fans because fans have a habit of not knowing why they like things. I can make a laundry list of games that got worse in their sequels because developers listened to fan reaction, did *exactly* what the fans said, and the sequel turned out awful. It's because gamers, unlike developers, are not paid professionals. They're playing Final Fantasy VII and saying, "I like this because of Sephiroth's big sword and the plot" and then a game is made with the plot aspect highlighted and fans hate it. Because that was never the aspect they *really* liked in the first place.
There's also the whole "compromising artistic integrity" thing by making something for the fans instead of yourself, which is a 100% bad idea people do anyway, but that's related.
Vogel makes some sound points but I do expect there to be a counterpoint sooner or later from the developer community, I also expect fan raging although I'd prefer some introspective from the offended fan bases first.
While I fully agree that the vast majority of what's said on fan forums is utterly useless, they do also represent a very important means of providing developers with feedback, positive and negative, not to mention keeping updated bug reports. As with any public space in which a lot of anonymous people can make a lot of less-than-constructive criticism, things will quite often get ugly, and I don't blame developers for being tempted to distance themselves from it.
As an off-and-on poster at the BioWare message boards, however, I have to say that, despite the moronic nature of many of the complaints people will hurl around, BioWare developers frequent the boards pretty regularly, reading and responding thoughtfully to fan feedback and answering questions. They're also well-known for taking fan feedback to heart-- many changes and additions in Mass Effect 2 grew out of listening to what fans liked and didn't like in the first game, and what they wanted more of in the second game.
I've lately seen people online complaining that Dragon Age 2 combat looks identical to that of the first game. This coming just months after the internet was throwing a collective tantrum over BioWare dumbing the game down for console players and making it a hack-and-slash action game. (Which is it, Internet?) The fact that BioWare manages to keep a realistic perspective in the face of all of this, to listen to the reasonable fan feedback without letting random people on their forums tell them how to do their jobs, shows, I think, just how wrongheaded Vogel's statement is.
As an off-and-on poster at the BioWare message boards, however, I have to say that, despite the moronic nature of many of the complaints people will hurl around, BioWare developers frequent the boards pretty regularly, reading and responding thoughtfully to fan feedback and answering questions. They're also well-known for taking fan feedback to heart-- many changes and additions in Mass Effect 2 grew out of listening to what fans liked and didn't like in the first game, and what they wanted more of in the second game.
I've lately seen people online complaining that Dragon Age 2 combat looks identical to that of the first game. This coming just months after the internet was throwing a collective tantrum over BioWare dumbing the game down for console players and making it a hack-and-slash action game. (Which is it, Internet?) The fact that BioWare manages to keep a realistic perspective in the face of all of this, to listen to the reasonable fan feedback without letting random people on their forums tell them how to do their jobs, shows, I think, just how wrongheaded Vogel's statement is.
@pugnax
While I agree with what you say, the major problem with fan forums is the fact that most negative comments don't really give any real criticism and most companies get more results from beta tests where they in fact get criticism that actually works. While i have never posted on a developers forum about issues i had with a game because i realize if i did i would most likely not be as clear as i should be due to the fact when i play a game if i enjoyed it all the problems just go away.
While I agree with what you say, the major problem with fan forums is the fact that most negative comments don't really give any real criticism and most companies get more results from beta tests where they in fact get criticism that actually works. While i have never posted on a developers forum about issues i had with a game because i realize if i did i would most likely not be as clear as i should be due to the fact when i play a game if i enjoyed it all the problems just go away.
Nothing makes me want to be a game dev less than reading WoW forums. Not only can the devs never win, but the complainers always (ALWAYS) outnumber to supporters of any decision 10:1, no matter what the decision is, and Blizzard is pretty damn good at making positive decisions about their game.
Most development studios I've been involved with have people who read the forums for them.
Be it the support staff or just stupid intern #3. They're usually told to skim through the forums and compile an easily digestible report once a week.
Be it the support staff or just stupid intern #3. They're usually told to skim through the forums and compile an easily digestible report once a week.
Ugh, typical Destructoid comments, jump in there having been given a small taste of the actual article. First and foremost it's weird that most of your arguments AGAINST his comments, are EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS:
"That is why I have built up an elite cadre of awesome beta testers and interested friends, and I listen to them very closely. And, I must point out, many of those testers were recruited from my forums. You just need to choose carefully the people you ask for advice."
Is such a quote from the article, and it petty much nulls a great deal of the arguments on these comments alone...
@Phoenix Gamma
He's an indie dev... -_- [or so he claims]
And to be honest a mass amount of those posting on game sites like this have absolutely no idea what it's like to make a game, and 90% of the time their suggestions are so out of the line with what's possible, or contradict themselves, that as the article says, you need to build a support around yourself that filter comments for you, with only those who know what they're talking about giving you direct feedback.
@Fury-Genesis
That's pretty much what the article is saying...
"That is why I have built up an elite cadre of awesome beta testers and interested friends, and I listen to them very closely. And, I must point out, many of those testers were recruited from my forums. You just need to choose carefully the people you ask for advice."
Is such a quote from the article, and it petty much nulls a great deal of the arguments on these comments alone...
@Phoenix Gamma
He's an indie dev... -_- [or so he claims]
And to be honest a mass amount of those posting on game sites like this have absolutely no idea what it's like to make a game, and 90% of the time their suggestions are so out of the line with what's possible, or contradict themselves, that as the article says, you need to build a support around yourself that filter comments for you, with only those who know what they're talking about giving you direct feedback.
@Fury-Genesis
That's pretty much what the article is saying...
@Resonsance
I read it - and I don't agree with what he said in the article.
"1. It's Not Productive To Read How Much People Hate You"
Not true. He talks about how "Facebook will never have a don't like button". Well guess what? Youtube does - and that's just as big as Facebook. It goes without saying that you shouldn't take that PERSONALLY - but you should still READ it.
"2. It's Not Going To Be Helpful"
He says unless you're fixing a bug, it's usually not helpful. Again, not true. There are inherent balancing issues and hotfixes that can be done all the time, especially for PC games - perhaps a certain character in Borderlands has too powerful an ability - fans whine about it - you listen, and decide it's a good idea, then implement it - fans are happy.
"3. You Might Get Suckered Into Getting Angry"
Really? One of his main points is - I don't think you have self control, so ignorance is bliss. Here's a tip - work on your self control! Not everyone is going to like you!
If you are David Jaffe, and have serious anger management issues - then sure, any Doctor would tell you to avoid situations in which you will inevitably become fired up - but the rest of the gaming world does a pretty good job at keeping self control.
Maybe if you're an Indie Dev who makes bite size experiences with little issue, you can afford to not take criticism, but if you're a big budget studio, with 50 plus hour long games, you're going to miss something, and fans are a great, FREE resource to help fix it.
I read it - and I don't agree with what he said in the article.
"1. It's Not Productive To Read How Much People Hate You"
Not true. He talks about how "Facebook will never have a don't like button". Well guess what? Youtube does - and that's just as big as Facebook. It goes without saying that you shouldn't take that PERSONALLY - but you should still READ it.
"2. It's Not Going To Be Helpful"
He says unless you're fixing a bug, it's usually not helpful. Again, not true. There are inherent balancing issues and hotfixes that can be done all the time, especially for PC games - perhaps a certain character in Borderlands has too powerful an ability - fans whine about it - you listen, and decide it's a good idea, then implement it - fans are happy.
"3. You Might Get Suckered Into Getting Angry"
Really? One of his main points is - I don't think you have self control, so ignorance is bliss. Here's a tip - work on your self control! Not everyone is going to like you!
If you are David Jaffe, and have serious anger management issues - then sure, any Doctor would tell you to avoid situations in which you will inevitably become fired up - but the rest of the gaming world does a pretty good job at keeping self control.
Maybe if you're an Indie Dev who makes bite size experiences with little issue, you can afford to not take criticism, but if you're a big budget studio, with 50 plus hour long games, you're going to miss something, and fans are a great, FREE resource to help fix it.
So what, Resonanse? I should just make a game and ASSUME everyone loves it?!
Wrong. You need feedback, especially from people who aren't paid to put up with your game. The average joe.
@Jim well, if you think the guy's right about forums and internet communities, maybe you shouldn't be so involved in one. I'm just saying you can't go around putting your stuff online and expect everyone to like it. Might as well disable the comments on your youtube videos while you're at it.
Wrong. You need feedback, especially from people who aren't paid to put up with your game. The average joe.
@Jim well, if you think the guy's right about forums and internet communities, maybe you shouldn't be so involved in one. I'm just saying you can't go around putting your stuff online and expect everyone to like it. Might as well disable the comments on your youtube videos while you're at it.
@Phoenix Gamma
Are you just acting like a moron for the hell of it or are you serious? Try reading the article and actually look at what it's saying. It's not saying "ignore all feedback" it's saying let others who aren't as emotionally attached to the project as you, and know what they're talking about look at the feedback, and explain what the majority need fixing. You're just taking it to the extremes and ignoring all points raised...
Same goes for your comments directed at Jim. You clearly haven't understood the point of the article at all...
Are you just acting like a moron for the hell of it or are you serious? Try reading the article and actually look at what it's saying. It's not saying "ignore all feedback" it's saying let others who aren't as emotionally attached to the project as you, and know what they're talking about look at the feedback, and explain what the majority need fixing. You're just taking it to the extremes and ignoring all points raised...
Same goes for your comments directed at Jim. You clearly haven't understood the point of the article at all...
I will add that, while fan forums will never be a replacement for good beta testing, internal play testing, and professional opinions, those things in turn will never be a replacement for good fan feedback on forums. As I said before, I fully admit that the vast majority of fan feedback on forums is not thoughtful or constructive in any way, but some of it is, and a good development team with a good collective head on their shoulders should be able to take whatever is worth taking from it and discount the rest.
Some of the additions BioWare made in Mass Effect 2, which I mentioned previously, are things that could not have come out of a regular play testing session, internal or otherwise. Without getting into spoilers, BioWare basically learned from their forums that Mass Effect fans wanted to see some things happening, in terms of character interactions, romances, and cameos of characters from the first game, that BioWare had not really expected. And they listened, and they delivered on those things in the sequel. This is fan service of the best variety, and I wish more developers would move in this direction, not in the opposite direction, as Vogel seems to be suggesting.
Some of the additions BioWare made in Mass Effect 2, which I mentioned previously, are things that could not have come out of a regular play testing session, internal or otherwise. Without getting into spoilers, BioWare basically learned from their forums that Mass Effect fans wanted to see some things happening, in terms of character interactions, romances, and cameos of characters from the first game, that BioWare had not really expected. And they listened, and they delivered on those things in the sequel. This is fan service of the best variety, and I wish more developers would move in this direction, not in the opposite direction, as Vogel seems to be suggesting.
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