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Villains: I'm not sure you're right for me, Ganondorf photo
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[Last week, I asked you to write anything you wanted about videogame antagonists. Today's blog is from Yamagato333, who discusses the various incarnations of Ganondorf throughout the Zelda series and why he ultimately found Skull Kid to be a more interesting villain. Want to see your own blog on the front page? Write a blog on the current topic: Integration. -- JRo]

I have a love/hate relationship with the Zelda franchise. I love Majora’s Mask. I hate Twilight Princess. I enjoyed The Windwaker. I’m not clouded by nostalgia for Ocarina of Time.

Did I mention I’m not too fond of Ganondorf?

My first outing in the world of Hyrule came on Christmas day 1998. I popped Ocarina of Time into my Nintendo 64 and began a journey that would change the way I perceived video games for the rest of my life. Before this fateful day video games were merely a hobby; an excuse to stay locked away in my bedroom because I didn’t feel like playing football at that particular moment. Ocarina of Time turned my hobby into a love affair. I was hooked. I searched Hyrule for every collectible; I memorized every dungeon; I fell in love with princess Zelda. That last one is a lie. I actually fell in love with the ginger girl from Lon Lon Ranch.

I really wanted to destroy Ganondorf because he’d wronged me. He’d taken the Triforce of Power and really messed up my Hyrule. I was ready to make him suffer, and suffer he did. I relished every second he spent being electrocuted by his own Kamehameha blast. I laughed feverishly every time I slashed at his deformed tail with my giant Goron Sword. I savoured the moment the Master Sword entered his skull.

However, he never once struck me as an interesting villain. I want to rule the world. I get power. Now I rule the world. I want more power. This is all standard villain stuff. There was nothing truly compelling behind his particular brand of evil.

Then came Majora’s Mask. It was weird. It was different. It scared me. There was a massive Marilyn Manson moon hanging over my head. A weird little kid I met during Ocarina of Time was now running around making Manson’s face fall out of the sky. He was doing this by harnessing the power of a magical and evil mask. I was freaking out, and I didn’t understand why I was so captivated by it all because it strayed so far from its predecessor, and I usually hated change. Gradually, I fell deeper into its clutches, and my love for Ocarina of Time began to fade. I appreciated Skull Kid because he was a villain I felt sympathy for. Here was a young boy that wanted nothing more than a friend. A child who had been corrupted by the evil of a mask, and turned into a monster. I never experienced this feeling of remorse when I plunged the Master Sword into Ganon’s skull. I savoured every second of that kill. Yet here I was promising myself that I wouldn’t kill Skull Kid. No, he did not deserve Ganon’s fate.

As I got older I began to understand that the reason Majora’s Mask had made me forget about Ocarina of Time was that its story was more compelling; its villain more relatable, and as a result, the game was less one dimensional. The fact I could relate to, and ultimately sympathise with, Skull Kid made him feel more real to me. I was fully immersed in this world because the characters had so much life within them. I mean, seriously, if you track each citizen of Termina over the course of the games' “72 hours” you begin to notice that most of them appear to be living out actual lives. They show up in different places. They are doing different things. You get a sense of peril from the various citizens you encounter. You truly feel as though this little kid is really going to bring about the apocalypse.

Skull Kid was the new villain on the block. Ganondorf just wasn’t doing it for me anymore.

Then came a trailer for Nintendo’s next Zelda game for the oddly named Dolphin console. A trailer that depicted its protagonist, Link in an epic duel with Ganondorf. I wasn’t impressed. Sure, the graphics looked awesome, and the trailer had a good amount of action, but honestly, Ganondorf is back? I’ve heard he was in a few Zelda games before Ocarina, and I figured you’d be doing more of that crazy Majora’s Mask style stuff.

However, much to my surprise, and jubilation, this trailer was not the Zelda that would appear on the newly minted Gamecube. No, this Zelda was to be just as intriguing as the one that came before. This was The Windwaker.

Once again I spent many an hour in the world that Nintendo had so lovingly created, and enjoyed every second of it. That is until I met an old friend. Yep, Ganondorf is back. Now, in a game that seems so new and fresh - a new graphical style; a new concept for travel; a giant ocean to explore - you’d think that Nintendo would have provided me with a more imaginative and compelling villain. I’m not saying Ganaondorf totally sucked in The Windwaker, but I am saying that his presence was underwhelming. He just didn’t fit. I expected more. I wanted more. It was something that gave me a feeling of déjà vu that I never really shook on my first play through.

This was only my third Zelda game, however, and two out of three ain’t all that bad.

So then Nintendo introduced us to Twilight Princess; the game to appease everyone who felt wronged by the cartoon graphical style of The Windwaker.

Twilight Princess was an interesting concept, I mean, you change into a wolf and hunt shiny bugs. Okay, that sounds a lot lamer than it actually is. The game showed promise when it revealed the main villain, Zant; a strange looking fellow, who seemed to be spreading an interesting graphical filter all over my lovely Hyrule. I was digging this guy. He was weird. He was pretty intimidating – until he took the helmet off – and he was fresh. Yeah, this was a Zelda villain I could enjoy. Well, I wasn’t privy to any spoilers, so I was pretty upset when I discovered that Zant was merely a pawn in Ganondorf’s evil scheme. Ganondorf, really? We’re really doing this again, Nintendo? Shigsy, I know you’re fond of this guy, but seriously, he’s not cool anymore. I want that other guy. The weird looking one back there. Yes, him. No, not the giant pig version of Ganondorf. Just forget it.

I literally turned off my Gamecube, and it would be an entire year before I saw the ending of Twilight Princess.

Video game villains are important tools when it comes to keeping one’s interest in a narrative. They often serve as the primary catalyst of the protagonist’s ultimate struggle, and as a result can be a thin thread holding together a fragile concept. A good villain keeps you engaged; they keep you playing. A bad villain makes you stop. They make you question whether you should keep up the fight. They make you question whether it’s really all worth it.

Fortunately, most Zelda games have flourished irrespective of their repetitive villain choice. We play these games for so many more reasons than a simple choice of villain, and yet somewhere, deep within the recesses of our minds, there is a voice. A voice asking where is that weirdo at Nintendo? The one who succeeded with his idea for Majora’s Mask. You know, that guy who who tried to make Zant the main villain of Twilight Princess. That voice is begging, pleading for that guy to come back. Hoping that he was working on Skyward Sword. Telling us to check the basement. Shigsy keeps him locked up in the basement.

You all hear that voice, right? Just me? Okay, then.








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64 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Elsa's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/06/2011 20:30
Elsa
Video game villains are important tools when it comes to keeping one’s interest in a narrative.
THIS. It applies to most any game!
KingSigy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/06/2011 21:55
KingSigy
Ganondorf definitely made sense in Wind Waker, it was Twilight Princess where his presence was asinine. He comes out of left field and you have to face him. It's like Nintendo really just wanted to remake Link to The Past, but forgot that someone actually resurrected the guy.

Regardless of how disappointing the conclusion of Twilight Princess is, the battle is pretty epic. Ganon is a significant villain, but he's too played out. I like him in 5 of his games, but the other villains are cool.

Try giving Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks a shot. You'll see that Bellum and Malladus are amazing. Hell, even Vaati is cool as fuck.
Intercept's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/06/2011 22:19
Intercept
Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game imo, for both gameplay and narrative reasons.

Phantom's Hourglass is my second least favorite Zelda game, behind only the original. Bellum is the most boring villain in the entire series, and at the end the story pulls a Link's Awakening ex machina. I've yet to play Spirit Tracks but will eventually.

I'm guessing you haven't played Four Sword Adventures, as it pulls a similar move to TP, but in a more organic way.

Minish Cap, Link's Awakening, the DS games, & Majora's Mask are unfortunately the only games that do not have Ganondorf as the main villain.

SKYWARD SWORD SPOILERS:



I believe Nintendo has already said that Ganondorf is not in it. So celebrate!
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/06/2011 22:36
Yamagato333
@KingSigy, I just got done reading your blog post and it was a nice reminder of how cool Ganondorf actually was towards the end of Windwaker!

I'll give them a shot. A friend has been trying to get me to to play them for a long time.

@Intercept, thank you for that info. I was already excited about Skyward Sword, but now I'm even more so!
Street Flighter's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/07/2011 03:34
Street Flighter
Nice to see the love for Majora's Mask. So damn weird and creepy. I feel like I want to do a post on how mysterious that game was and how it was a real curveball from Nintendo, but it's pretty much covered here. Kudos.
Nic128's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/07/2011 07:56
Nic128
Vaati was an amazing vilain in Minish Cap.
naveenwf's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/07/2011 15:38
naveenwf
The only Zelda games I've played are OoT, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Twilight Princess. I haven't played Majora's Mask (after reading your description of it I might download it soon) but the whole Zant story in twilight princess, like you said, is really cool. He was an intriguing character and had a nice back story. In fact, I loved the whole back story to do with Midna and Zant and the tribe or whatever that they belonged to! It was a cool side of Zelda I hadn't seen before.

I don't have that high hopes for Skyward Sword. In my opinion I don't like the 'combination of TP and WW' art style of it (after experiencing the awesome darkness of Twilight Princess), and that's coming from someone who absolutely LOVED Wind Waker. Well, I guess I'll have to wait for it to come out before I can fully say how I feel about the latest iteration of Hyrule.
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/07/2011 17:07
Yamagato333
@naveenwf, it's honestly, in my opinion, the best Zelda game, period.

I love everything about it. The creepy face on the moon. The fact that if you watch it on the third day, you'll see it's slowly moving closer and closer to the surface. Skull Kid and his hyper active brand of evil. The dungeons, weapons, characters, music... EVERYTHING!

It's one of two N64 games I still own mint in the box.
Glitchmaster8's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2011 06:00
Glitchmaster8
This makes me want to go finish Majora's Mask. It is one of the 3 Zelda games I have never beaten/played. Zelda 2 and Spirit Tracks are the others but those are not considered the best of the series so I never bothered.

@Intercept Phantom Hourglass is pretty much a remake of Link's Awakening anyways just with some Wind Waker thrown in.
Noir's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/09/2011 10:02
Noir
Nice blog, I also do not like Ganondorf. I have yet to finish OoT, but I played through a decent amount to figure out that I don't care for him. He was good in WW, but in TP he was garbage. Nintendo just pulled him out to make the game even more like OoT than it already was. Zant was great though, Skull Kid too. I wish that they appeared more like Ganondorf. The most recurring villain besides Ganondorf is Vaati, and he has only appeared in the Four Swords games sadly.

Skyward Sword takes place before OoT so hopefully we can see an old villain or anyone who isn't Ganondorf, maybe even the origin of Majora's Mask (which is rumored to be created by the Twili). We know about Ghirahim, but I doubt that he is the main baddy in the game.

@KingSigy

I thought Bellum was horrible, there was nothing good about him at all. The only good thing about him was the fight with him before the final boss.
llort het's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 19:40
llort het
Totally agree. I think Nintendo should give Ganondorf a break for at least a decade of zelda games. He was only introduced to be a conduit for Ganon, but even after only appearing once, he practically became the de facto zelda villain, and even only appearing in 3 or so major zelda games, he's pretty much the first person to come to mind when you think "zelda antagonist." Personally I'd like to see Vaati make an appearance in a major zelda game.
tremault's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 19:51
tremault
love it.
dude, you captured my very soul in this piece. I never imagined that among the hordes of morons who want to bum ganon, there may be a person like myself who loved majoras mask and hated TP.
I also felt that ocarina of time was not that great, but here's the stinker. it was pretty much a remake of ocarina of time, with a few things switched around.
I've played zelda since the very first installment. apart from number 2 but then you understand that, right?
the first one was amazing and had me casting my candle on tree after tree for hours on end. there was nothing much in the way of story though. zelda 3 fixed that and made me fall in love with a concept. the characters, the story, the music. then ocarina of time came along and ripped it off. it always makes me sore when i see people worship OOT when I am all the time in full knowledge that it has stolen the thunder of what was the true masterpiece.
and ganon was a fat pig beast. not some stupid guy with a big nose and a beard.
curtisdhansen's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 19:54
curtisdhansen
You know, I only just finally finished Twilight Princess a few days ago, and I'll admit, it definitely left me wanting more, especially from Ganondorf himself. The fight was cool and everything, but he was just tacked on at the end. Zant had more backstory, and Midna was a more interesting counterpart to Zelda. I'm not immune to the nostalgia factor, having been with the series since the beginning; but this was the first time I really felt no purpose in the inclusion of Ganon/dorf in a major Zelda game. Majora's Mask, while not my favourite in the series, is definitely a badass departure from the formula. The early buzz has me SUPER excited for Skyward Sword, though, and hey - no Ganondorf! :)
Epic-Kx's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 19:56
Epic-Kx
@DarylNoir
He was also in Minish Cap.

@Yamagato, I can agree 100% with you that Minish Cap>OoT. OoT felt cliched and typical. The time travel function was the only redeeming quality (and yes, Malon is a babe.)

Wind Waker, I thought that giant bird who captured Aryll would be the villian. But I was crushed when the whole "HYRULE IS SUNK UNDER TEH. OCEANZ DURRR."

Skywards sword new FEMALE antagonist looks really cool though. Great write-up, meng!

(Rolento>Ganondorf.)
rexwolf2's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:01
rexwolf2
I love Ganondorf, but I must admit he is a bit overused. He definitely is best in Wind Waker, but I do love his fight in TP.

@Epic: Malon is such a babe.
GoofierBrute's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:06
GoofierBrute
I hear that voice all the time. I didn't like Majora's Mask all that much, but I thought Skull Kid was a much better villain than Ganondorf was. Same goes with Zant, and while that new villain Ghirahim from Skyward Sword looks promising, I'm being a little cautious this time.

I think the reason Nintendo has Ganondorf appear in so many Zelda games is because of the fans, the ones who think he's a this deep evolving character that you should feel sorry for (even though the only game anyone actually sympathy for him was in Wind Waker), when in reality he's just a power hungry villain who's not all that deep or tragic.

Overall awesome read man, and it's nice to see someone with the same sentiment as me when it comes to Ganondorf.
GoofierBrute's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:10
GoofierBrute
Also @Epic which female antagonist are you talking about? Only antagonist I know about is Ghirahim, a.k.a that flamboyant demon king.
Noir's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:17
Noir
@Epic

How could I forget Minish Cap? I fucking loved that game. Vaati should've appeared in one of the Wind Waker sequels on the DS, he would've fit the wind theme. Missed opportunity Nintendo!
DuckedUpOnQuack's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:19
DuckedUpOnQuack
I swear the masses had their memories wiped when it comes to Twilight Princess. Ganondorf didn't come out of nowhere. He got his foot in the door in the middle of the game, and it was anyone's guess how he'd return for the ending. Also, I did like that Ganondorf took advantage of a pathetic, weak, yet vengeful man to accomplish his own ends. Sure he wasn't all that interesting but he didn't come out of nowhere.


Also, to me, the Ganondorf in Wind Waker is the most interesting version of Ganondorf, or indeed any villain in Zelda. Instead of being a power hungry psycho, he seemed more like a doomed, tragic figure. His dialogue at the end of the game says as much. He resents the new land, the Great Sea, and clings to Hyrule. The king of Hyrule tells Link and Zelda that they must move on, and forget about Hyrule. He only decided to attack once Hyrule started flooding, once he lost everything he worked towards.

They can do good with Ganondorf, although I am glad (for purely aesthetic reasons) that he is sitting Skyward Sword out.
Leigh Davidson's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:20
Leigh Davidson
Ganondorf is a reflection of Link, like all good villains are, but Link also isn't brilliant character himself. It's only because we take control of him that fact is blurred some what. It's like they're two sides of the same coin to quote some film I can't remember. Ganondorf is the bad guy, and Link is the good guy.

But I do have an urge to say I really liked Zant. When his true identity was revealed I weirdly related to the delusions he had and the fact that the fight with him was quite the cake walk cemented that he was just a pawn even further. I kinda felt sorry for the guy in the end.. and because of that (though not solely) I'm very fond of Twilight Princess overall.

But I will say the love for Majora's Mask misses me. To me it really is the most unimmersive Zelda game I've played and I blame it solely on the time mechanic. I can't get into something if I'm pushed around.
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:20
Yamagato333
Firstly, thank you Destructoid. I've only been here for a couple of weeks, but I'm already in love with the community.

@Neil Marcus Rowlands, thank you for the kind words! Yes, Majora's Mask is, in my opinion, the best Zelda game, period. I love everything about the game and proudly display my original copy like a beautiful trophy.

@curtisdhansen, I'll never get over the betrayal of Ganon's presence in Twilight Princess. It was as if Nintendo didn't trust their ability to create something fresh. Yeah, Skyward Sword is hopefully going to be awesome. I'm praying for a world as vast as the one in Wind Waker.

@Epic-Kx, haha, Malon; yes, I'd forgotten her name!
Epic-Kx's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:21
Epic-Kx
@Goof
Ghirahim is a chick, confirmed by nintendo in the latest Game Informer.
wqerty's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:32
wqerty
I totally, completely agree with the author, My favorite zelda is also MM and WW, others just like super mario with swords and a big map(great nevertheless)
emayer's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:36
emayer
Ganondorf is definitely not out of place in The Wind Waker. He and the King of Hyrule are meant to parallel each other, both being invested in a long-forgotten kingdom. Ganondorf's effort to bring Hyrule out from beneath the ocean is what causes the King to see that what's important for Link, Tetra, and the rest of the current generation is for them to form their own identity, independent of what's come before them. That type of story wouldn't work with a new villain -- it had to be someone who's already been involved with Hyrule's history (like Ganondorf).

And say what you will about Twilight Princess, but it should have been abundantly clear that Ganondorf would be significantly involved at the game's midway point, when the Sages talk about him point-blank.
GoofierBrute's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:43
GoofierBrute
@Epic
Source?
PhilK3nS3bb3n's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:47
PhilK3nS3bb3n
@neil: so true. Lttp > oot
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 20:56
Yamagato333
@emayer, I definitely agree that in terms of the story, Ganon's presence in Wind Waker is important. However, the point I was trying to make was that I wasn't interested in a continuation of the main lore. I wanted an entirely fresh game - free of Ganon. I was disappointed with the villain choice, but I understand it and I love the game regardless.

That's sort of the point. I had no idea that Zant would become a secondary villain, and that's what upset me. The game took me on an interesting ride for half the game; the rug was then pulled out from underneath me, and it was back to the same old shit. The Sages made it clear where they were going, but I still wanted to believe Zant would remain the big bad.
CrimsonNinja6's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 21:06
CrimsonNinja6
The last Zelda game I played was A Link to the Past, so I've no idea what's up with the series these days. Interesting write up though, kudos!
Jibberwocky's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 21:27
Jibberwocky
Pretty much summed up my own thoughts on the matter.
Although I have to say Windwaker was the only game in the series where I didn't think Gannon was completely lame. The final battle with him is one of the best boss fights in gaming as far as I'm concerned. It was definitely still pretty one-dimensional, but the execution and context in the story made it pretty amazing.
MetaTotoro's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 22:08
MetaTotoro
You should read the Majora's Mask manga. Apart from Fierce Deity Link being a total badass, there's an amazing short side-story that explains how the mask originated (artist's interpretation... maybe non-cannon...but Nintendo allowed it XD ). Anyways, teaser - it has a dragon, a mysterious man (who looks like Fierce Deity), music and a 3-day timeline...
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 22:10
Yamagato333
@MetaTotoro, I had no idea there was a manga! *Starts searching immediately*
Ioachim's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 22:32
Ioachim
Like some have said already, I liked Ganondorf a lot in Wind Waker (my favourite Zelda game), because he was an anachronic villain. The whole "clinging to the past" issue didn't felt to me as relatable or tragic, just kind of pathetic. He is a powerful and cunning guy, but he is blinded by the past. Makes a nice connection with the ago on adventure and move forward theme that is central to WW and it's sequels
MetaTotoro's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 22:42
MetaTotoro
@Yamagato333, Hahaa... I went searching for it too...

http://www.zelda-infinite.com/files/manga/majora/view.php?chap=10&page=1

This is a fan translation, though... I think in mine, Fierce Deity Link calls the mask salesman a 'little wretch' after slicing up his masks and chasing him away (aweeesome)
Sonintega's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 22:51
Sonintega
Majora's Mask is totally my favorite Zelda game too, but I'm in no way tired of Ganondorf returning again and again. To me, a Zelda game just doesn't make sense if there's a Zelda, a Link, but no Ganon to round out the struggle over the triforce. That said, it's completely okay that Ganon's not in Majora's mask (no mention of the triforce, it's not the central struggle), Link's Awakening (same thing), Minish Cap (don't remember it as much as you guys do, but I don't think shrinky-dinks had anything to do with it), or Oracle of Ages/Seasons (until you throw the two together), but at any point that the Triforce returns as a narrative device Ganon should return because he, Link, and Zelda, in any incarnation, are inherently linked to the thing. Sure, Nintendo could go a long ways to making Ganon a more interesting adversary (hell, only the bit characters ever have any personality in these games. Tingle is more fleshed out than the big three, and that's a huge problem), but just swapping him out with another random baddie with little explanation into his/her motivation to rule/destroy the world or bring back Ganon so he can do it instead (see Agahnim, the guys from Ages/Seasons, Vaati, metro-dude in the upcoming game) isn't a fix, it's just sleight of hand so they can keep making the same game with only superficial changes.

At least reusing Ganon is honest to the core conceit of the series in that all the games are very similar, and most of the time that's not a bad thing. My favorite in the series is Majora's Mask, not because the end boss is different, but that the gameplay is diversified and the main purpose becomes more about finding away to stay ahead of the clock and save as many of the (suddenly interesting and sympathetic) people around Termina, and not just putting the pointy end of the sword into the big bad. None of the other Zelda games tried so hard to make you care about the people in the world, and that's a real shame, because they did it so well. Also, bunny hood mask. That is all.
Gamer-e's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 22:52
Gamer-e
Man, Majora's Mask itself was a much better villain than Ganondorf ever was.

The thing possessed a kid desperate for friends, fucked over every individual race and the area they lived in more than one way, screwed over almost everyone in the game individually, and was planning to top it all off by dropping the moon on everyone, except only after allowing everyone to suffer for a while because it's a sadistic asshole.

It did all of this just for nothing other than shits and giggles. The worst thing about it all is that rewinding reset everything back to the way Majora's Mask had it before you intervened. Hell, the only way to even begin saving the world is to allow Majora to almost destroy it since that's the only time you can even confront the thing after it severely de-powers you!

The only Zelda game I can honestly say I felt anything for Ganondorf in was the Wind Waker, but he waited until the very end to tell anyone anything about his character. I still like him best in that game, though.

That said, I'm not that bothered by Ganondorf being the villain. The appeal of any of the main Zelda games' stories is the path traveled to Ganondorf, not Ganondorf himself. He's kinda like Dracula in that, under normal circumstances, no matter what happens before the end of the game, he's going to be the main villain. I would, however, like to see a villain other than Ganondorf. He's nowhere near as important to Zelda's universe (in either timeline) as Dracula is to Castlevania's, his back story isn't as interesting as Dracula's, and he has less in-story excuses for constantly coming back in some form.
KingSigy's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 23:23
KingSigy
OOO, nice job on the front page. Congrats. It's always good to see some Zelda love and critiques being honored.

Also, I really love Majora's, though it's not my favorite.
skullskullskull's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/11/2011 23:50
skullskullskull
Very good article, really.
I actually felt a bit that way when I played A Link to the Past, and saw that Ganon was back, again. Instead of Aghanim Nintendo decided to play it safe... Oh well, Nintendo.
And again as the years go by and more Zeldas are added to the pile, I've come to the conclusion that nothing will equal the experience of Majora, this game was really an exception. That being said I too enjoy Zelda but I'm not expecting anything new here, maybe just some visual updates and couples of cool gameplay features, oh and Ganon...


Majora's was a exception to the rule, a risky game (at least for Nintendo)
Hiltz's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 00:38
Hiltz
I haven't played Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask, but I really liked Ganondorf's presence in Wind Waker because the character revealed a more humane side to him. Despite still being a psycho, Ganon did show Link mercy when he said that he doesn't wish to kill him, but to merely take his piece of the Triforce. In addition, Ganon expressed his jealousy over the peaceful and prosperous Hyrule while he grew up in a harsh desert which felt cursed by suffering and death and there was nothing he could do to change it.While Ganon already possessed magical powers, it kind of revealed Ganon's reason for wanting to have more power, the power of the Triforce so that he could use it to change his fate and defy the Gods.
Wally's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 00:45
Wally
Great blog. The first Zelda game I had play was Wind Waker, and I thought he was your typical villain. Then I played Ocarina of Time 3D, and I can understand your "not clouded by nostalgia" statement. While a fun game, I don't think it's the perfect masterpiece everyone claims it is.

I do hope they release Majora's Mask for the 3DS; from the sounds of it, the game suits my taste more than Ocarina. I have also played Four Swords, but I highly doubt Vaati is much of a villain that one is looking for.
Shinobi13's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 02:38
Shinobi13
Bitching about Ganondorf being overused in Legend of Zelda games is like bitching about Zelda or Link.
Sick of them? Go play another series. The Triforce and familiarity (Using memorable characters, towns, reimagined) are what seperates The Legend of Zelda from it's clones. The series has a very rich history or characters, weapons, items, mechanics (Bomb arrow!), and icons. By using the same things reimagined, it builds history for them. The Legend of Lon Lon Ranch, anyone? Yeah? Yeah!

If I wanted all of the Zelda mechanics but none of the things like Ganondorf or any other familiarity in it, I'd pick up Darksiders if I were you.
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 02:39
Yamagato333
@KingSigy, thank you. Like I said earlier, your 'villains' blog post reminded me of how cool Ganondorf was in the Wind Waker. It's actually the reason I'm going to be playing it this week!

Thank you for the responses everyone, whether you agreed with me or not!

I'm glad I could get some of you to give Majora's Mask a chance. It really is a special game. The clock actually adds a sense of constant terror that no other game has captured since. You really do feel as if the world is going to end. As if there is really something at stake.
Yamagato333's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 02:47
Yamagato333
@Shinobi13, I could never finish Darksiders. Strange.
Cudgeon's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 03:38
Cudgeon
I love you for liking Majora's Mask more than OOT. Nough Said. Oh, and I hated TP too.
mmmpek's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 06:40
mmmpek
nice post man! majora's mask is my least favourite console zelda overall, but i loved how the cursed mask created a villain out of the skull kid. and yeah the moon was terrifying.

also, the first thing i thought when i watched a skyward sword trailer was 'god i hope gannon doesnt pop up at the end and wreck it'.
thulsado0m's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 08:09
thulsado0m
i stopped reading after you said you LIKED majora's mask.
thulsado0m's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 08:17
thulsado0m
people dont realize that the entire concept of zelda is that it revolves around the triforce and link, zelda, and el pigman represent a 1/3 of the triforce each.

not to mention he's been the main villain from the start.
do people complain that bowser has been the main villain for about 85% of the mario games? no because its what we expect, you're supposed to take the story for what it is...

an everlasting re-occurrence of the same story.
the creators just make the environment and circumstances different but it always boils down to the the aspects of power (ganon), wisdom (zelda), and courage (link).
Cudgeon's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 09:22
Cudgeon
@ Thulsadoom
That would be Ganon not Ganondorf.
MyCoolWhiteLies's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 10:46
MyCoolWhiteLies
I totally understand where you're coming from. Gannondorf doesn't bother me TOO much, but for the reasons you stated, Majora's Mask is also my favorite Zelda, by a wide margin. That's saying something too, as I love the whole series.
Garlador's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 11:28
Garlador
Twilight Princess was the ONLY time I was disappointed with Ganondorf showing up. They pulled a "Star Fox Adventures" on us (though SFA was MUCH worse. MUCH MUCH worse. You don't even fight the main bad guy at all and series regular Andross shows up at the VERY end as the REAL bad guy...)

That said, the Zelda series has usually had plenty of different "main" villains. Vaati, Majora, Bellum, Nightmare, Malladus. And there have been many major villains that could've been the main enemies: Agahnim, Zant, General Onox, Veran.

I like Ganondorf... but I do like games without him too.
Dr-Peace's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/12/2011 11:32
Dr-Peace
@KingSigy

Ganon is resurrected by Zant, leeching off of Zant's power.


-----


I don't really agree with the blog, Ganon is pretty cool in my opinion.


Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time was a pretty basic villain even though he has a cool design, you can't argue with that.


In Wind Waker, Ganondorf divulges some of his backstory. He talks about how he came from a land where his people suffered, and his jealousy of Hyrule was overwhleming. It's only a little bit but makes him more relatable.


As for Zant? HE IS JUST LIKE OCARINA GANON. He is a very basic villain that whilst exotic, only wants power. He was kinda boring. When the twist came about, it just made Ganondorf look even stronger. His battle was also rather epic.


Majora's Mask is definitely the best in the series but I don't see why you have to lose your love of Ocarina to like it. Skull Kid isn't the real villain, the Mask is. The Skull Kid is worthy of pity, whilst the mask is the embodiment of chaotic, purposeless evil. It's a sweet setup, but it's the time mechanics that make it so much more powerful.


As I said I like Ganondorf, mainly as I see his potential. A story concerning young Ganondorf could be pretty special.
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