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ARGH!!! I JUST FUCKING POSTED ABOUT THIS!!!
I call MASSIVE BULLSHIT! I don't care about the L4D line personally. I owned the first one. I liked it... but it wasn't that deep of gameplay they had first promised it to be. Then they said there was going to be DLC...
Here's the issue(and Valve isn't giving anyone fucking ANYTHING give me a goddamn break), you release a game, say there will be DLC and support, and then start to release the 2nd version BEFORE YOU EVEN DEFINE what the dlc content is...
It's creating anxiety. People don't have money to just sling around buying 80 dollar games all willy nilly like. So when someone says don't worry we will support your 80 dollar investment with some more content later and it will be awesome.
You come back to that same company a year later and they are somehow developing more on a title they said they would support. Meanwhile you've been waiting for something to happen BASED on their own words. But without any detail or scheduled timeline it's a crapshoot and it seems somewhat devious in nature. So instead of crying about what you've posted and said from the beginning Valve, how about just saying hey man sorry we didn't tell you when it was coming, this new title doesn't mean we are not bringing stuff out... but buyers remorse is a tough thing to quell when the company itself shows signs of moving on without your interests part of their own. And then to turn around and call your customers whiney is fucking gross.
Leap frogging your promises with traditionally supplemental autonomous content is going to cause a massive rift with people because you've turned them into regretful anxious freaks wondering if they made the same move or not.
Just reassure your user base that it's going to be satisfied and THEN SUPPLY content and schedules. Fuck this ooooooh it's secret it'll make you so happy bullshit. You have to show and promise before you get anything of a tight following... Fuck I shouldn't have to spell this out but apparently when you get so high on your high horse you forget what being a fucking consumer is.
Fuckin finger pointin retards...
I call MASSIVE BULLSHIT! I don't care about the L4D line personally. I owned the first one. I liked it... but it wasn't that deep of gameplay they had first promised it to be. Then they said there was going to be DLC...
Here's the issue(and Valve isn't giving anyone fucking ANYTHING give me a goddamn break), you release a game, say there will be DLC and support, and then start to release the 2nd version BEFORE YOU EVEN DEFINE what the dlc content is...
It's creating anxiety. People don't have money to just sling around buying 80 dollar games all willy nilly like. So when someone says don't worry we will support your 80 dollar investment with some more content later and it will be awesome.
You come back to that same company a year later and they are somehow developing more on a title they said they would support. Meanwhile you've been waiting for something to happen BASED on their own words. But without any detail or scheduled timeline it's a crapshoot and it seems somewhat devious in nature. So instead of crying about what you've posted and said from the beginning Valve, how about just saying hey man sorry we didn't tell you when it was coming, this new title doesn't mean we are not bringing stuff out... but buyers remorse is a tough thing to quell when the company itself shows signs of moving on without your interests part of their own. And then to turn around and call your customers whiney is fucking gross.
Leap frogging your promises with traditionally supplemental autonomous content is going to cause a massive rift with people because you've turned them into regretful anxious freaks wondering if they made the same move or not.
Just reassure your user base that it's going to be satisfied and THEN SUPPLY content and schedules. Fuck this ooooooh it's secret it'll make you so happy bullshit. You have to show and promise before you get anything of a tight following... Fuck I shouldn't have to spell this out but apparently when you get so high on your high horse you forget what being a fucking consumer is.
Fuckin finger pointin retards...
Go Wooficer, you nailed it :-D
It's pretty funny that the studio which put the idea of DLC on the map for most gamers with the continuation of Half Life 2, has absolutely no clue how to handle the concept in the first place. I'm not saying that everything they do is wrong ( the TF2 updates are good, although unfortunately not for consoles), but it seems to me they talked about stuff they couldn't (or wouldn't realise). The fact that Episode 3 isn't even out yet is another example. For me personally the idea of DLC means you can extend the lifespan of a game in the short run to keep players interested and build a stronger community / less trade-ins, but it seems to me that Valve defines DLC differently.
It's pretty funny that the studio which put the idea of DLC on the map for most gamers with the continuation of Half Life 2, has absolutely no clue how to handle the concept in the first place. I'm not saying that everything they do is wrong ( the TF2 updates are good, although unfortunately not for consoles), but it seems to me they talked about stuff they couldn't (or wouldn't realise). The fact that Episode 3 isn't even out yet is another example. For me personally the idea of DLC means you can extend the lifespan of a game in the short run to keep players interested and build a stronger community / less trade-ins, but it seems to me that Valve defines DLC differently.
I agree with Woocifer.
The problem as I see it is that they have obviously kept their best ideas for use in the sequel. The DLC once promised is now going to be of an intrinsically inferior nature to what we might have originally expected because all the best stuff is going to come at the price of buying a whole new game. A game which looks for the most part identical to the first except for said additional content.
I love Valve and I'm not boycotting anything, but when you have a loyal fanbase and you are well known for your high standards, OF COURSE you can expect backlash for jumping on the yearly sequel bandwagon, and promising great DLC on one hand, while simultaneously keeping your good ideas for a full-price sequel.
I think Valve were a little short-sighted not to expect this from fans. It's only BECAUSE we all love them so much that people care enough to voice their opinions on their business decisions.
What are your real thoughts on this, Jim?
I'm personally just disappointed that there's no sight of a new Half-Life anywhere on the horizon.
The problem as I see it is that they have obviously kept their best ideas for use in the sequel. The DLC once promised is now going to be of an intrinsically inferior nature to what we might have originally expected because all the best stuff is going to come at the price of buying a whole new game. A game which looks for the most part identical to the first except for said additional content.
I love Valve and I'm not boycotting anything, but when you have a loyal fanbase and you are well known for your high standards, OF COURSE you can expect backlash for jumping on the yearly sequel bandwagon, and promising great DLC on one hand, while simultaneously keeping your good ideas for a full-price sequel.
I think Valve were a little short-sighted not to expect this from fans. It's only BECAUSE we all love them so much that people care enough to voice their opinions on their business decisions.
What are your real thoughts on this, Jim?
I'm personally just disappointed that there's no sight of a new Half-Life anywhere on the horizon.
That's the reason that when I assume my rightfull place as the world commander , I'll kill everyone BUT some select few of the Dtoid community , then I'll use my magic powers to create japanese sex slaves and the world will be a nice place again .
No one gave a shit until the announced L4D2. If it wasn't announced, all this "abandonment" bullshit would never have started and people would still be playing L4D how it is. But because of the bitching, they have to address the issue and probably release it earlier than expected. It's not like there was a firm date on the second wave of DLC.
Jim, you're kind of beating this story into the ground, buddy.
I can see where the L4D zealots are coming from. It was mentioned in multipke places that they were going to get massive updates in line with Team Fortress 2. Then the sequel is announced for 6 months later. It was always logical to assume that a game will laregely get left behind when a sequel hits. I can understand the disappointment.
Are things different now that Valve is actually showing that they are going to make good on some of those promises? Sure. Were they overreacting in the first place regardless? Absolutely. But the only time I hear anybody say anything about this story anymore, it's usually listening or reading your thoughts on how stupid they are. Maybe I'm sheltered on this one, but it really seems like you're going as far overboard as anyone with this.
I can see where the L4D zealots are coming from. It was mentioned in multipke places that they were going to get massive updates in line with Team Fortress 2. Then the sequel is announced for 6 months later. It was always logical to assume that a game will laregely get left behind when a sequel hits. I can understand the disappointment.
Are things different now that Valve is actually showing that they are going to make good on some of those promises? Sure. Were they overreacting in the first place regardless? Absolutely. But the only time I hear anybody say anything about this story anymore, it's usually listening or reading your thoughts on how stupid they are. Maybe I'm sheltered on this one, but it really seems like you're going as far overboard as anyone with this.
I won't link the video again, but bottom line:
Gabe promised new weapons and characters before launch in an interview, and said they'd be coming soon, and often.
That didn't happen. We got the ability to "make our own maps", and one more promised update before the launch of L4D2, which may or may not be one more survival level (that's my guess).
That's why the boycotters are boycotting. It's not "unbelievable".
Gabe promised new weapons and characters before launch in an interview, and said they'd be coming soon, and often.
That didn't happen. We got the ability to "make our own maps", and one more promised update before the launch of L4D2, which may or may not be one more survival level (that's my guess).
That's why the boycotters are boycotting. It's not "unbelievable".
VALVe has never, in its 100+ centuries of existence, EVER, EVER done anything wrong by its fans/users/consumerbase. Therefore they are the darlings of the industry and are allowed to do WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. Now Woocifer, I didn't even bother to read your bitch/whine/cry post as I already know what it contains. VALVe can put $5 in a box and sell it for $10 and people will buy it. They have EARNED that right with YEARS AND YEARS of QUALITY.
That is all.
That is all.
If you guys can't have a proper consistent argument(as most people don't seem to be able anyway) then by all means spread yer slag all over here. Just because I made a point that goes against a company that people may hold 'dear' without seeing they are just a company like the rest of the companies in this world, you jump up and down my spine.
If you can't see the absolute ridiculous nature of what the writer(not Jim, the Valve douche) said and what his brash smug commentary on US is then yer as blind as your comments are.
Just keep bending over and taking it from another person that trails the jackasses along with another carrot dangling from a string.
Plainly put Valve should have done what any business should do and that is inform your customer of the continued value of a product they sell in order to prevent consumer remorse.
The thing that is aggravating is the fact that they believe they are so good and have done so much for the community(yeah...you know...those 2 games that are exactly alike for the past 15 years that they keep repackaging and selling?) that they don't need to be responsible for their business organization and public relations. They think that throwing a few mods or whatnot onto Steam, maybe dropping the prices here and there, and then saying yes DLC is coming is plain enough to responsibly manage their user base. Unfortunately they forgot some serious points here...they over promised...but they didn't tell you what exactly they have promised. Therefor how can we even argue that they have ANY leg to stand on when we STILL don't know what they are going to bring out that will make everyone feel satisfied they didn't just buy a shell or engine for a game that might possibly come out later on in the year for an extra 20-30 bucks that is fueling the game they REALLY wanted to make that they will ship as another title?
I dunno...maybe I'm just a little sharper than that, but that is a lot of smoke and mirrors for me to shut up and smile as they shovel more backhanded compliments to their users.
But if you feel inclined to bow down to that, then go right ahead and do so... and while you're at it, take your nose out of Jim's asshole...it's really unsettling that not only do you suck the cocks of massive enterprises but you also love the smell of someone elses steaming corn hole.
If you can't see the absolute ridiculous nature of what the writer(not Jim, the Valve douche) said and what his brash smug commentary on US is then yer as blind as your comments are.
Just keep bending over and taking it from another person that trails the jackasses along with another carrot dangling from a string.
Plainly put Valve should have done what any business should do and that is inform your customer of the continued value of a product they sell in order to prevent consumer remorse.
The thing that is aggravating is the fact that they believe they are so good and have done so much for the community(yeah...you know...those 2 games that are exactly alike for the past 15 years that they keep repackaging and selling?) that they don't need to be responsible for their business organization and public relations. They think that throwing a few mods or whatnot onto Steam, maybe dropping the prices here and there, and then saying yes DLC is coming is plain enough to responsibly manage their user base. Unfortunately they forgot some serious points here...they over promised...but they didn't tell you what exactly they have promised. Therefor how can we even argue that they have ANY leg to stand on when we STILL don't know what they are going to bring out that will make everyone feel satisfied they didn't just buy a shell or engine for a game that might possibly come out later on in the year for an extra 20-30 bucks that is fueling the game they REALLY wanted to make that they will ship as another title?
I dunno...maybe I'm just a little sharper than that, but that is a lot of smoke and mirrors for me to shut up and smile as they shovel more backhanded compliments to their users.
But if you feel inclined to bow down to that, then go right ahead and do so... and while you're at it, take your nose out of Jim's asshole...it's really unsettling that not only do you suck the cocks of massive enterprises but you also love the smell of someone elses steaming corn hole.
now where is the TF3? CSSS? WOW2? Are you saying that other companies released Stracraft 2 a year after releasing the 1st?
ohh way.. noo... you are talking about game companies.. humm
great games deserve great support!!! By GREAT COMPANYS...
and if they SAY so they do SO.. thats why they are great... now... I support Valve, but I cant be happy with l4d2...
Still I don't support Boycotting as Anti-Boycott like you do! -.-'
ohh way.. noo... you are talking about game companies.. humm
great games deserve great support!!! By GREAT COMPANYS...
and if they SAY so they do SO.. thats why they are great... now... I support Valve, but I cant be happy with l4d2...
Still I don't support Boycotting as Anti-Boycott like you do! -.-'
I love Valve. Not because I'm blind as I have no blind loyalty to one company - That's retarded - but I was smart enough to see a game that I too did not think was as good as it could be and you know what I did! I DIDN'T BUY IT! It's common sense.
Yes Valve has released a sequel that WILL break the user base and WILL be better than the last one but it's been a whole year. In that year if you haven't beaten and played Left 4 Dead in a way that your satified that's YOUR problem and this crowd of idiots is no different from the people who complain that Team Fortress 2 ruined Team Fortress. Besides the game isn't coming out for at least two years (or are you people unfamillar with Valve Time
Yes Valve has released a sequel that WILL break the user base and WILL be better than the last one but it's been a whole year. In that year if you haven't beaten and played Left 4 Dead in a way that your satified that's YOUR problem and this crowd of idiots is no different from the people who complain that Team Fortress 2 ruined Team Fortress. Besides the game isn't coming out for at least two years (or are you people unfamillar with Valve Time
Jim Sterling sez:
>Perhaps the lesson here is to never be nice to people.
No, the lesson here is to be more forthcoming with your future plans. We're talking about a game that prominently features internet-based multiplayer. When you release a sequel to a game largely based on its "community" features, you are almost certainly diminishing that community.
Many people bought into the game based not only on the bits and bytes in the box, but for those community features over time. So let's say you buy your ticket and you're expecting three years of an experience. That's absolutely great value for money as games go. But when it's said that your ticket's only good for a year at which point the community will be kneecapped.. you can't help but feel it's a bit of a dick move to remove value from your buy-in.
This illustrates part of the reason I am fundamentally against the game-as-service model that Valve has been moving towards since the release of Half-Life 2. I'm not saying Valve shouldn't release a new title in a franchise every year, but if that's their model they should be more up-front about it. If you need a more steady cash-flow out of a franchise, then just go ahead and make it into a full-on subscription service and charge by the month, quarter or year. But don't let everybody assume they're getting a three year buy-in when it's only going to be one year followed by a dramatic shift in the experience.
>Perhaps the lesson here is to never be nice to people.
No, the lesson here is to be more forthcoming with your future plans. We're talking about a game that prominently features internet-based multiplayer. When you release a sequel to a game largely based on its "community" features, you are almost certainly diminishing that community.
Many people bought into the game based not only on the bits and bytes in the box, but for those community features over time. So let's say you buy your ticket and you're expecting three years of an experience. That's absolutely great value for money as games go. But when it's said that your ticket's only good for a year at which point the community will be kneecapped.. you can't help but feel it's a bit of a dick move to remove value from your buy-in.
This illustrates part of the reason I am fundamentally against the game-as-service model that Valve has been moving towards since the release of Half-Life 2. I'm not saying Valve shouldn't release a new title in a franchise every year, but if that's their model they should be more up-front about it. If you need a more steady cash-flow out of a franchise, then just go ahead and make it into a full-on subscription service and charge by the month, quarter or year. But don't let everybody assume they're getting a three year buy-in when it's only going to be one year followed by a dramatic shift in the experience.
it would be nice if all these bitching people just jumped off a cliff into a bon fire of used valve games
Jim Sterling, master troll.
It's impossible to take these posts seriously any more, they are either done for page hits or Jim is just fantastically pig headed and stubborn about what got people pissed.
It's impossible to take these posts seriously any more, they are either done for page hits or Jim is just fantastically pig headed and stubborn about what got people pissed.
I only care if I can launch both titles from one .exe. Honestly, what's the point of updating L4D if 2 is out? I don't want to have 2 games installed just because I want to try something new in one that isn't on the other. I'll gladly pay $50 for the second, just make it work within the first one.
@Woocifer
"Here's the issue(and Valve isn't giving anyone fucking ANYTHING give me a goddamn break), you release a game, say there will be DLC and support, and then start to release the 2nd version BEFORE YOU EVEN DEFINE what the dlc content is... "
And that's why it's horshe shit to complain, man. If they said it will come, IT WILL FUCKING COME. They made a second version not to overlook the DLC but just have another settng.
Now drink your own piss on Kotaku, there is filled with people that will love you.
"Here's the issue(and Valve isn't giving anyone fucking ANYTHING give me a goddamn break), you release a game, say there will be DLC and support, and then start to release the 2nd version BEFORE YOU EVEN DEFINE what the dlc content is... "
And that's why it's horshe shit to complain, man. If they said it will come, IT WILL FUCKING COME. They made a second version not to overlook the DLC but just have another settng.
Now drink your own piss on Kotaku, there is filled with people that will love you.
DESTRUTIOD NEEDZ PAGE HITS. 1000 MORE SARCASTIC POSTS BY JIM "FAT ASSHOLE" STERLING ON THIS DEAD HORSE FORTHCOMING...
WooooOW! I didn't read all of the novels that people wrote in here, but let me take a stab the the basic gist: People are blaming Valve because they are releasing DLC for L4D too close to L4D2? Creating "anxiety"!? Jesus fucking Christ people. If you can't afford something you weigh the costs and benefits and then get the one you want most the earliest. It's not their job to manage your money.
Valve doesn't have confirm whats coming to anyone, they can pretty much do what they please regardless of what their "fanbase" thinks or does.
@babytalker,
Are you fucking kidding me?!
I can't side with someone like him. Jim, keep it up. I'm on your side now.
Are you fucking kidding me?!
I can't side with someone like him. Jim, keep it up. I'm on your side now.
>If you can't afford something you weigh the costs and benefits
The problem is that it's impossible to accurately weigh the cost/benefits when the service provider changes their offering over time. The marketroids are all too happy to whip people into a frenzy about added value in the future, then they are surprised about some backlash when that value is substantially diminished?
I don't buy it. This seems to me to be a case of modifying the expectation of what it is you're buying into when you buy a Valve multiplayer experience, but without just coming out and saying so. If they can't sustainably support a franchise on the same level as they do TF2 they could show more respect to the customer and indicate that clearly instead of slowly modifying perception over time.
The problem is that it's impossible to accurately weigh the cost/benefits when the service provider changes their offering over time. The marketroids are all too happy to whip people into a frenzy about added value in the future, then they are surprised about some backlash when that value is substantially diminished?
I don't buy it. This seems to me to be a case of modifying the expectation of what it is you're buying into when you buy a Valve multiplayer experience, but without just coming out and saying so. If they can't sustainably support a franchise on the same level as they do TF2 they could show more respect to the customer and indicate that clearly instead of slowly modifying perception over time.
"Faliszek adds that perhaps Valve could have made it more clear, but that people would probably have whined either way: 'So, there’s that -- taking the leap to do that clearly. Honestly though, I don’t know if that would have made a difference. I think there are just a lot of people who didn’t listen to that.'"
Yeah, actually I'm pretty sure plenty would have been satisfied.
Yeah, actually I'm pretty sure plenty would have been satisfied.
I think woocifer, and all that are agreeing with him didn't read this article. No one's pointing fingers. The article is pointing out that no matter what they do, they would get some sort of complaint. I think woocifer missed the part where valve is like "yeah we're still releasing everything we mentioned AND l4d2"
so everybody just calm down. Relax. You're still gunna get your zombie fix one way or another.
so everybody just calm down. Relax. You're still gunna get your zombie fix one way or another.
I would love to jump into some sort of alternate universe where corporations are generally more honest about their upcoming plans just to see how it would work out. If Valve just came out and said, "look guys, the economy is rough and we need more cash. We need to either kneecap L4D with a sequel or we can start charging a subscription to L4D. Here, vote on it!".
I am going to buy Left 4 Dead 2 when it comes out. Just throwing that out there. BUT valve has yet to release ANY DLC that shouldnt have already come with the game (except survival). The Dead Air + Death Toll versus should have been there in the first place and frankly survival sucks. They havent given us any new maps and the game came out 8months ago.
You motherfuckers should be glad *I* didn't write this post.
The more I think about the content in L4D2, the more it makes sense that it's an entirely separate game. Honestly, if Valve had simply released five entirely new campaigns, four new characters with entirely new dialogue, new zombies, and new weapons as a free update, people would be freaking out about how generous the company was being. As it is, you're getting something that will be bigger and stronger than L4D1 was right out of the box. If you didn't bitch about L4D1, then you probably shouldn't bitch about L4D2.
In short: Stop reacting without thinking, get out of "I'm on the Internet, I must complain!" mode, and actually think about it.
DISCLAIMER: I am a Valve fanboy, but I still think these views are reasonably well-balanced.
The more I think about the content in L4D2, the more it makes sense that it's an entirely separate game. Honestly, if Valve had simply released five entirely new campaigns, four new characters with entirely new dialogue, new zombies, and new weapons as a free update, people would be freaking out about how generous the company was being. As it is, you're getting something that will be bigger and stronger than L4D1 was right out of the box. If you didn't bitch about L4D1, then you probably shouldn't bitch about L4D2.
In short: Stop reacting without thinking, get out of "I'm on the Internet, I must complain!" mode, and actually think about it.
DISCLAIMER: I am a Valve fanboy, but I still think these views are reasonably well-balanced.
One upside of this debacle is that I've come to see a positive side of Jim Sterling's bastardry. It's as enjoyable to have on your side as it is annoying to have thrown in your face.
@Sharpless
Read the comments. The only people making rectionary statements are the ones telling everyone else to stfu.
Besides the morons only capable of posting one-line cliches, the responses here point out loud and clear why people are boycotting.
Read the comments. The only people making rectionary statements are the ones telling everyone else to stfu.
Besides the morons only capable of posting one-line cliches, the responses here point out loud and clear why people are boycotting.
"I am not boycotting Left 4 Dead 2 because I am fat."
Chicks dig fat guys...
http://dofb.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/fat-cat.jpg
Chicks dig fat guys...
http://dofb.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/fat-cat.jpg
"It's creating anxiety. People don't have money to just sling around buying 80 dollar games all willy nilly like. So when someone says don't worry we will support your 80 dollar investment with some more content later and it will be awesome."
Who the fuck paid 80 dollars for left 4 Dead?
Who the fuck paid 80 dollars for left 4 Dead?
Scroll sez:
>It's pretty terrible that some peoples comments are longer than the article.
lol i no rite? do u no if tonites ow my balls is new episode? rofl!
>It's pretty terrible that some peoples comments are longer than the article.
lol i no rite? do u no if tonites ow my balls is new episode? rofl!
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