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Valve, I can't put another gold star on your chart because you have too many.
Best game company in the world.
Best game company in the world.
It's obviously ridiculous. I don't even know what they were thinking over at EA. They engage in the exact same price cutting when it suits their interests....
Steam sales help games reach a wider audience. The hardcore fans will still buy the game at full price on day 1. However with so many more options out there, sales are a natural way a marketable product gets into the hands of a consumer.
Good sales also combat the used game situation, and is a better way for game companies to bite into the money from used games instead of using DRM. Some people would rather just buy it steeply discounted, than to go get it used.
Good sales also combat the used game situation, and is a better way for game companies to bite into the money from used games instead of using DRM. Some people would rather just buy it steeply discounted, than to go get it used.
Steam dosent force the developers into the sales right? Or do they have the power to say "screw you guys, its 80% off time" ?
I would be so bold as to say Valve is one of the very few companies that are in the actual game industry.
Most other companies I would argue are just in the money industry.
Most other companies I would argue are just in the money industry.
@Jack Dandy
My sentiments exactly. EA reps shouldn't even be allowed in the same room as Valve folk. They two companies are on such vastly different levels. Valve has generated so much consumer good will and trust, that if Valve asked us to go to war for them we probably would. ;)
At least if the fight were against EA scum of the earth.
"Electronic Arts" My ass.
My sentiments exactly. EA reps shouldn't even be allowed in the same room as Valve folk. They two companies are on such vastly different levels. Valve has generated so much consumer good will and trust, that if Valve asked us to go to war for them we probably would. ;)
At least if the fight were against EA scum of the earth.
"Electronic Arts" My ass.
I wonder how much money is made on games that are sold during these sales that are then never installed by the user, as the have a MASSIVE BACKLOG.
Also, just look at these message boards. I wonder if EA looks at boards like these and sees all the Hate for them and all the unrepentant love for Valve.
I wonder if they understand why it's this way? Do you think they are that self aware? Given their practices I'd guess not.
I wonder if they understand why it's this way? Do you think they are that self aware? Given their practices I'd guess not.
@Themuad
No they do not. That's the absolutely ridiculous thing about EA's bullshit. Right this minute Crysis 2 is discounted 70% which EA had to agree to. And at the same time they try to tell us that they think it kills their franchises.
If it does, why not just tell Steam, not to discount their games.
Oh yeah that's right I forgt, they sell copies by the metric ton during those sales.
No they do not. That's the absolutely ridiculous thing about EA's bullshit. Right this minute Crysis 2 is discounted 70% which EA had to agree to. And at the same time they try to tell us that they think it kills their franchises.
If it does, why not just tell Steam, not to discount their games.
Oh yeah that's right I forgt, they sell copies by the metric ton during those sales.
EA doesn't belong in the same multiverse as Valve, much less do they have any room to cast dispersione on how Valve runs Steam.
I view EA's statement as an insult and insults are usually thrown at what isn't understood and what the person(s) is afraid of.
EA seems to think they don't understand Valve because they don't(and most likely won't) have the user base and PC gaming influence to rival steam with origin. EA and others fear Valve because they are the #1 example that you don't have to be a penny counting, job cutting asshole of a company to make strides in this industry.
Valve is putting us first, few companies in general do these days.
EA seems to think they don't understand Valve because they don't(and most likely won't) have the user base and PC gaming influence to rival steam with origin. EA and others fear Valve because they are the #1 example that you don't have to be a penny counting, job cutting asshole of a company to make strides in this industry.
Valve is putting us first, few companies in general do these days.
There was a time when I thought "Game devs HAVE to charge us this much, games are expensive to make. If they could charge us less and still make money, they would." But after seeing all of this I now know game devs are just as greedy as everyone thinks they are. Good on you Valve. At least one company still knows how to sell their brand without selling their soul to satan.
EA should look at the long term effects. You expose an ip to a greater audience and in addition ips / games that haven't exposed to an audience for a long time, find exposure again. It's like advertising and gaining money of it. Head explodes! Also most of the heavily discounted games already broke even. Everything besides is a +! And can we guess where the money is going besides a quick blow and a cheap companion for sexual intercourse? Oh yes! Making more games you can sell! Life can be wonderful sometimes!
Also not every game is discounted that heavily. Some are just 10% - 20% off and I've seen enough without the "Take me away, we will discuss your finances later, okay?"-tag on it. But now I've got to go. I've got to call to the doctor, to know how long I can be without food.
Also not every game is discounted that heavily. Some are just 10% - 20% off and I've seen enough without the "Take me away, we will discuss your finances later, okay?"-tag on it. But now I've got to go. I've got to call to the doctor, to know how long I can be without food.
I love the humility of a company like Valve. Even after several issues turned up (the whole Mutant Mudds/Revelations 2012 debacle), the Greenlight program came across to me like Valve were at least LISTENING to the complaints, which is a lot more than most other companies appear (Of course companies like Capcom, Namco, etc. listen to complaints with care and respect, but Valve know how to deal with them quickly, it seems).
Does anyone know how this works? I was always curious. When they sell something for 75% off, does that just close the margin between Valve and the consumer while not affecting the original owner?
Say I was selling a game over Steam and it normally sells for 20 bucks. I get 15 dollars for each sale and Valve gets five for hosting it. Now it goes on sale for 15 dollars. Does that mean I would only get 10 dollars now
Was just always curious about this though I know it is never this simple.
Say I was selling a game over Steam and it normally sells for 20 bucks. I get 15 dollars for each sale and Valve gets five for hosting it. Now it goes on sale for 15 dollars. Does that mean I would only get 10 dollars now
Was just always curious about this though I know it is never this simple.
I stopped reading when EA were trying to take the moral high-ground and 'defend the value of IPs'.
Valve can do stuff wrong sometimes, but selling people's games to lots of people is not one of them.
Valve can do stuff wrong sometimes, but selling people's games to lots of people is not one of them.
The only way their sales have ever cheapened IP is when DRM breaks the game because too many people are buying/playing a game.
@Themuad and dgschrei
No, that's not how it works. Developers still get the same cut whether it sold at full price or half price. Valve takes the hit, not the developers.
No, that's not how it works. Developers still get the same cut whether it sold at full price or half price. Valve takes the hit, not the developers.
@ Leigh Davidson:
Wow, I always thought it would be like Steam taking 25% and if there is a discount it would be still 25% to Steam and 75% to the publisher... but with that news - wow
PS 25 / 75 are just examples, I really don't know that.
Wow, I always thought it would be like Steam taking 25% and if there is a discount it would be still 25% to Steam and 75% to the publisher... but with that news - wow
PS 25 / 75 are just examples, I really don't know that.
EA are just getting a little pathetic at this point. By all means try your best (lol) to compete with Steam, just don't fling shit when your service is the desperately inferior one.
Hey, EA. We're infinitely smarter than you. Just assume what we do is correct and try to keep up. - Valve
EA: "Hey... hey! Stop making our digital distribution service look so bad by offering all those great sales."
Valve: "Fuck youuuu!"
Valve: "Fuck youuuu!"
If I want a game BADLY at launch(for instance: Skyrim, Rage, Borderlands 1 and 2) I will just pre-order it on steam regardless of the fact that it will go on sale in 3 or 4 months, that is because I want to play the game ASAP.
If I'm interested in a game, but not THAT interested(for instance: WH40 Space Marine, Serious Sam BFE, Batman Arkham City), I'll just wait for a steam sale and buy it then.
The industry has always worked like this, with "Value" or "Classics" repacks coming some time after the game was launched and wasn't selling that well anymore. The only thing valve does with those sales is speed up the process: instead of waiting a year for the price to drop, there are smal weekly promotions and huge promotions every six months, and if the price is low enough for you then, you can buy the game.
Since there's waiting and chance involved, I don't really see how those promotions would canibalize sales. Those who want the game now and can afford it, will pay the price for ordering it near launch, those who wouldn't be able to afford the game at launch price, will have the opportunity to purchase later at a more affordable price.
Simple like that.
If I'm interested in a game, but not THAT interested(for instance: WH40 Space Marine, Serious Sam BFE, Batman Arkham City), I'll just wait for a steam sale and buy it then.
The industry has always worked like this, with "Value" or "Classics" repacks coming some time after the game was launched and wasn't selling that well anymore. The only thing valve does with those sales is speed up the process: instead of waiting a year for the price to drop, there are smal weekly promotions and huge promotions every six months, and if the price is low enough for you then, you can buy the game.
Since there's waiting and chance involved, I don't really see how those promotions would canibalize sales. Those who want the game now and can afford it, will pay the price for ordering it near launch, those who wouldn't be able to afford the game at launch price, will have the opportunity to purchase later at a more affordable price.
Simple like that.
Just found this, it's great stuff:
"When the EA CommentBot was informed of Valve's retort, it was quoted as saying 'Technically, it does cheapen the IP. As a matter of facts, the IP becomes cheaper when it is put on sale on Steam. This, in turn, nets us less money'.
The EA CommentBot was then reminded that EA's own business model focused more heavily on DLC/digital revenue tied to the games than on the games themselves, and that Steam sales would increase sales of DLC. Confronted with this failure in logic, the EA CommentBot became entangled in an infinite feedback loop and went thermonuclear.
EA headquarters was destroyed, along with 700 lifeless automatons and two depressed cats.
"When the EA CommentBot was informed of Valve's retort, it was quoted as saying 'Technically, it does cheapen the IP. As a matter of facts, the IP becomes cheaper when it is put on sale on Steam. This, in turn, nets us less money'.
The EA CommentBot was then reminded that EA's own business model focused more heavily on DLC/digital revenue tied to the games than on the games themselves, and that Steam sales would increase sales of DLC. Confronted with this failure in logic, the EA CommentBot became entangled in an infinite feedback loop and went thermonuclear.
EA headquarters was destroyed, along with 700 lifeless automatons and two depressed cats.
It all comes down to EA needing to please stockholders
You can do the things valve does and have happy stockholders, as stockholders are attached to percieved value and predictable tradtion rather than unpredictable and less-value per thing sold/achieved.
The only reason why valve can do the things it does, is because it is a privately owned company, and as such as room to experiment. You bet your ass EA would love to be on the Valve train right now - but they simply can't. They are a company that must abide by their stockholders.
You can do the things valve does and have happy stockholders, as stockholders are attached to percieved value and predictable tradtion rather than unpredictable and less-value per thing sold/achieved.
The only reason why valve can do the things it does, is because it is a privately owned company, and as such as room to experiment. You bet your ass EA would love to be on the Valve train right now - but they simply can't. They are a company that must abide by their stockholders.
You know, there are IPs I wouldn't even touch were it not for sales, some gamnes are currently over priced, others, I may not be much into the genre or concept to be willing to spend X amount.
Sales make it accesible for people less interested, and make win their interest for a future release. This is extremely valuable I think.
There is a price I'd be willing to play for a Call of Duty game, but it's not the one on price tags right now, not even on their sales, and see it as you may, it's money they could have but are are losing the opportunity to. I think a sale is of great value in winning new costumers and people who otherwise will never pay what you ask for the game. Companies don't seem to be aware that such people exist and that they could profit out of them too...
I've thought about it this way, sales could be offered individually to people who have not shown interest in a particular genre/franchise, for me it could be Assasins Creed or Call of Duty game, and if I like any of its iterations, I might just be willing to buy some other at a higher price tag.
Sales make it accesible for people less interested, and make win their interest for a future release. This is extremely valuable I think.
There is a price I'd be willing to play for a Call of Duty game, but it's not the one on price tags right now, not even on their sales, and see it as you may, it's money they could have but are are losing the opportunity to. I think a sale is of great value in winning new costumers and people who otherwise will never pay what you ask for the game. Companies don't seem to be aware that such people exist and that they could profit out of them too...
I've thought about it this way, sales could be offered individually to people who have not shown interest in a particular genre/franchise, for me it could be Assasins Creed or Call of Duty game, and if I like any of its iterations, I might just be willing to buy some other at a higher price tag.
EA has perpetual Short Man Syndrome. If they aren't talking about how they love everything Activision does and how they're going to rip them off wholesale, they are taking potshots at other companies that are doing it all better than they are. I think it might be a big factor in why they aren't #1 in pretty much anything.
@
Leigh Davidson
I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works.
Developers when they release a product on steam can state the max "sale price" that they are willing to let that product go down to. When something goes on sale, it is usually at this sale price that the developers agreed to never go down farther. This is why some games on steam never go on sale - because the developers chose to not have them be on sale.
At the same time though, Valve I believe sometimes does take a cut. I.E. they will sell certain games lower than the set sale price, at a cut to them if it is a very special promotion. Especially if it is a bundle package.
That said, this is all for the most part speculation based on rumors. Valve is very secretive about their price/profits breakdown and how their sales work, as its kind of a "trade secret" for them. The only thing for certain that we do know, is that any game that is on the "Top Sellers" list is done on a per-profit basis - I.E. a $5 game that is #1 on the top sellers list, is #1 because that game made the most amount of $$$, more than any other game on Steam, at that moment. It isn't done on a per-sold basis. It's a pretty common sight to see games like Dear Esther ($10) rake in more moment-to-moment profits than MW3 or Skyrim does when it goes on sale for example.
Leigh Davidson
I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works.
Developers when they release a product on steam can state the max "sale price" that they are willing to let that product go down to. When something goes on sale, it is usually at this sale price that the developers agreed to never go down farther. This is why some games on steam never go on sale - because the developers chose to not have them be on sale.
At the same time though, Valve I believe sometimes does take a cut. I.E. they will sell certain games lower than the set sale price, at a cut to them if it is a very special promotion. Especially if it is a bundle package.
That said, this is all for the most part speculation based on rumors. Valve is very secretive about their price/profits breakdown and how their sales work, as its kind of a "trade secret" for them. The only thing for certain that we do know, is that any game that is on the "Top Sellers" list is done on a per-profit basis - I.E. a $5 game that is #1 on the top sellers list, is #1 because that game made the most amount of $$$, more than any other game on Steam, at that moment. It isn't done on a per-sold basis. It's a pretty common sight to see games like Dear Esther ($10) rake in more moment-to-moment profits than MW3 or Skyrim does when it goes on sale for example.
My word, the commoner can afford video games now? You know what he should be doing instead of playing games? Working!
I think its less about hypocrisy and more about making their service attractive, they can complain about cheapening IP but people are going to go where the deals are. Especially when Origin is kind of seen as second fiddle to Steam to begin with.
Sale prices broaden the number of people that buy it. 25% of full price is better than zero, and online downloads mean don't have to pay for packaging and shipping.
I can completely see both sides of this argument, and neither is wrong. Valve is hardly judged in the same way as other companies, and the data is not going to be the same for everyone.
Timing is also important. If your game just came out, it's not a good idea to put it in a Steam sale. If you've tapped out all your possible existing sales at other higher price points, then I can see doing a Steam sale.
Valve can talk all day about their data, but devaluing is a legitimate concern. Look at the comments anytime SQEX puts out something on iOS - like all the entitled bitching about FFT daring to cost $18 (even though the OST would be a fucking bargain at $15, an artbook by Yoshida would be a steal at $50, and Matsuno wrote over 700,000 characters of text ... in Japanese, and then it was translated, and the game has over 100 hours of gameplay ... and got an HD upgrade and new touch controls).
OF COURSE consistently cheap prices devalue games.
Timing is also important. If your game just came out, it's not a good idea to put it in a Steam sale. If you've tapped out all your possible existing sales at other higher price points, then I can see doing a Steam sale.
Valve can talk all day about their data, but devaluing is a legitimate concern. Look at the comments anytime SQEX puts out something on iOS - like all the entitled bitching about FFT daring to cost $18 (even though the OST would be a fucking bargain at $15, an artbook by Yoshida would be a steal at $50, and Matsuno wrote over 700,000 characters of text ... in Japanese, and then it was translated, and the game has over 100 hours of gameplay ... and got an HD upgrade and new touch controls).
OF COURSE consistently cheap prices devalue games.
I own 173 games on Steam, a good 75% of which I've never even played. You can bet your ass that if it weren't for Steam's incredible sales, I wouldn't have purchased even half the games I have. Sounds pretty beneficial to the publishers to me.
If it hurts the total benefits or increases them depends heavily on each game's case.
Some games have a higher demand than others, and thus the profits by programmed low price sales affect them differently.
Examples:
A game's profits with a low demand will be hurt. Not many people in the fence.
A game's profits with a high demand will be benefitted, because many people are in the fence regarding buying it and might decide to do so once the price drops.
PD: That's why Catherine is 3200 Microsoft Points on XBL.
Some games have a higher demand than others, and thus the profits by programmed low price sales affect them differently.
Examples:
A game's profits with a low demand will be hurt. Not many people in the fence.
A game's profits with a high demand will be benefitted, because many people are in the fence regarding buying it and might decide to do so once the price drops.
PD: That's why Catherine is 3200 Microsoft Points on XBL.
All I know is that, from a personal perspective, Steam's amazing sales have led to me buying a fair few games I'd have never considered otherwise. I mean, when something's on sale at 90% off and costs less than a fiver, I'm far more likely to take a punt on it.
Valve are a fantastic company.
Valve are a fantastic company.
It's pretty funny that EA throws millions at DRM when the Steam sales have to be the best anti-piracy measure going!
I have the knowledge and ability to get games through those means but I don't. If i can't afford a game at it's release I wait for a steam sale knowing that they'll come around soon enough! (Arkham City for under £7!? Get in my basket!).....But then I also buy a shed load of games I wasn't planning to buy aswell. Whoops!
I have the knowledge and ability to get games through those means but I don't. If i can't afford a game at it's release I wait for a steam sale knowing that they'll come around soon enough! (Arkham City for under £7!? Get in my basket!).....But then I also buy a shed load of games I wasn't planning to buy aswell. Whoops!
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