Destructoid is gaming news, community, videos, and sometimes love. Take the tour or jump in with Facebook:

 


Valve: Fight used sales by making good, supported games photo

While visiting Valve this past week to pop zombie heads in Left 4 Dead 2, we took the time to sit down with marketing VP Doug Lombardi to chat about two subjects very close to my heart -- used games and piracy. While Valve has used Steam as a great way of dealing with such issues, we wondered whether the studio's retail games suffered at all, and what they made of the whole used game debate. Lobardi's answer was quite refreshing.

"We always see these overall numbers, like how much money GameStop's making per year off of used game sales," he says, "but we really don't have a breakdown of details for those. I don't personally know, after being at Valve since Half-Life 1, how many copies of our games per year are sold used, and on the PC versus the 360, so I think there's a certain amount of information that's missing, sort of like piracy. I think a lot of folks cry piracy when a game fails to hit their forecast and it may or may not be part of the problem, and it may or may not be all of the problem, but I think to throw any one reason at any problem is probably a mistake, considering the lack of information on both fronts.

"Having said all that, though, I think that it's probably true to say that gamers tend to have affinity for the games that they like, so if you're doing your job and making a good game, and providing a high level of service for that game at the time of release and post-release, I'm guessing you're probably less of a victim of piracy and trade, because people want to have the full copy, the legal copy, and have all the updates.

"I think there are ways of curbing both piracy and used game sales by providing a higher level of service at the time of launch and post-launch. And I think what we're seeing, as platforms become more and more connected, that this problem will become less and less an issue as the idea of offering a service post-launch becomes more and more en vogue."

It's always good to see a developer that doesn't stomp its feet and have a trantrum because GameStop's exploiting the same free market that they exploit. I'm totally with Doug on this one -- people keep games that they like, and that they feel they can get their money's worth from. If your game wasn't made to be worth keeping, you shouldn't whine and moan when it's sitting on a GameStop shelf a week later.


Continue: More Valve stories





prev next

42 comments | showing # 1 to 42

Sexualchocolate's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:06
Sexualchocolate
I just bought Fight Night round 4 at lunchtime, the "dude" at the counter say "It's on offer at £29.99, but we've got pre-owned at £27.99" so as any normal person would I've gone "£2 is a pint, i'll take the pre-owned"

Publishers HATE me.
The-Excel's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:09
The-Excel
The thing is that for each person that wants to buy the game, there's an uncertain number of people who will pirate it. The best way to counter that is just to be fair to the customers (EA) and maximize the first number. There will always be thieves in the world, and it is refreshing to see a company recognize that and submit to that fact instead of blaming it on someone and unwittingly maximizing the second number.
RICHARD BLOCKER's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:09
RICHARD BLOCKER
@ Jim Sterling-

I would just like to thank you for all the L4D2 coverage. This is a highly anticipated game for me and anything I can read on the subject is appreciated.
c0med1an's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:18
c0med1an
I know Gamestop leads in used sales, but what about all the other companies following now? Best Buy and Toys R Us are now doing it. What about all the small shops that run based on used games like CGX, Game Xchange, and Play n Trade? I think instead of just pinning gamestop, you pin ALL of them.
s0mni0's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:19
s0mni0
Valve can't pull the good service card anymore ... TF2 for 360 was supposed to be updated 2 years ago.
Magesx's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:22
Magesx
Valve seems like the wrong company to say this. People don't really buy used PC games, and Steam eliminates that all together.
Arkhon's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:25
Arkhon
Publishers could always buy back used games themselves and resell them if they really want to make profit on used games.
brainboy77's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:32
brainboy77
This from the people who shipped L4D with vs. mode with only two of the four maps? Yeah, greatly supported game.
Br0th3rGr1mm's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:38
Br0th3rGr1mm
To what extent are publishers/Devs allowed to use the system to circomvent used game sales? If every game came with a code that was required (and only good ONCE) to open a highly desireable piece of content in the game, would that be going too far? I certainly think such a tactic is well within their power and right to do so, but does it unfairly attack a segment of the gaming industry that players obviously want and use?

Debate:
Sexualchocolate's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:42
Sexualchocolate
I think unlockable content and codes in the new games is a brilliant idea, I would pay the extra £2 for some "only available to new purchasers" content.
FatherChesz's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:47
FatherChesz
Fight used sales by creating good, supported games. Oh yeah, and use a distribution and activation system that makes it impossible to sell used copies of the game. Valve, I love you, but you're seriously talking out of your ass on this one.

@ Br0th3rGr1mm: Valve currently does this with every piece of PC software they sell, albeit that desirable piece of content is the ENTIRE GAME.
Chronic Logic's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:50
Chronic Logic
It sucks when you buy a used PC game and can't play multiplayer.
ChaosTeaCup's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 10:50
ChaosTeaCup
Me too, SC, me too... And 2 pound for a pint!?!?!

Jeez, London is expensive (but worth it)!
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 11:16
Holyetheline
Valve is just so chill about everything, I love them.
CRAZYAPE69's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 11:23
CRAZYAPE69
Used are crap, the last used game i bought from game was BF:BC and the multiplayer froze all the time. That was about a year ago.
GoldenGamerXero's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 11:29
GoldenGamerXero
Someone direct these people to Ubisoft, Activision and Southpeak! It's a matter of great importantance that could change the future of the gaming industry with the almighty power of CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!
Hawks's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:01
Hawks
I use to buy games at EBgames(gamestop in canada) but most of the time nowadays Bestbuy has the same games NEW for a bit cheaper than EB's used games. Theyre like right across the parking lot from eachother.

That and the fact that I only go out to buy games I actually want(very few these days) and Id rather pay a couple extra bucks and support the developer than some retailer, who constantly hounds me to buy things when I walk into their store.

Of course if there is a game that I want but I dont support the developer/publisher for whatever reason, Ill buy it used or borrow it from a friend.
gamadaya's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:17
gamadaya
@S0mnio
That's probably not Valve's fault you know. And there was an update just a week ago.
gamadaya's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:19
gamadaya
Shit. Sorry for the double post, but I just have to say Valve is right. I pirate fucking everything. Last game I bought? Orange Box. Next game might be LFD2.
Losari's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:27
Losari
I don't see the point of buying used games, much less buying games from Gamestop. Used games are only $5 cheaper and I never trust their condition. Combine that with Gamestop's horrid return policy and you've got yourself a non-customer.

Piracy, on the other hand, seems to be an art that will never fade.
aaronf's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:40
aaronf
@Losari,

Sign up for GameStop's newsletter and they constantly send you %25 off used games coupons via email. This discount stacks with the 10% you get from the Edge card. So that's 35% off a used game (up to 3 games). I only buy used from GameStop with these discounts, so you really save a lot.
liam12360's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:43
liam12360
He's right, i torrented The orange box and L4D, then i went out and bought every valve game ever made, and since they got me hooked to steam, thats the only place i buy games now.
rsquad's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 12:47
rsquad
How many Valve/Left 4 Dead stories are you guys gonna run on this site? There's at least 2 every fucking day!
Qraze's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 13:08
Qraze
any company who says used game sales are wrong should go and buy a new house, a new car, a new bong and everything else in their life new. used products are here to stay and be sold, its a waste to our environment and resources to buy everything new. gun makers don't get mad when people buy old guns and they kill people!
DJP3DRO's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 13:10
DJP3DRO
"...so if you're doing your job and making a good game, and providing a high level of service for that game at the time of release and post-release, I'm guessing you're probably less of a victim of piracy and trade, because people want to have the full copy, the legal copy, and have all the updates."

*charges $60 for content that was promised for free to flesh out a barebones game*
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 13:28
Dexter345
Somehow, I knew L4D2 bitching would come up from this story.
s0mni0's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 13:31
s0mni0
@gamadaya they need to focus on giving the content and map updates they promised. I stopped playing TF2 a long time ago when I realized the cake is a lie. Valve threw the companion cube for the 360 in the fire a long time ago.
gamadaya's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 13:42
gamadaya
@s0mni0
Although I like your analogies, the problem isn't on Valve's end. Nothing's free on the 360. They can't release the updates at the pace they are made, as they are forced to release through XBox Live. By the time MS finishes tacking on charges, it'll be like $30 extra. Easier to release a lot of stuff in one big update.
Kyousuke Nanbu's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 13:54
Kyousuke Nanbu
Valve really needs to STFU and just keep making their shitty, repetitive overrated shooters, they sound like morons everytime they talk.

Also, LOL at all the people that support Valve but pirate everything else, you're still a thief no matter how you look at it and you aren't sticking it to anybody because you think the game isn't good for you to buy(yet I imagine you still complete it.)
silvain's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 14:08
silvain
...and auto makers need to support their vehicles so that they can combat used sales too!
brainderailment's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 14:11
brainderailment
I mostly buy new games simply because I want my box and disk to be immaculate. I will wait for the price to drop well below $60 though.
akathatoneguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 14:13
akathatoneguy
Easy for Valve to say. Most of their games have some kind of multiplayer component that makes them replayable longer than a single-player game would be.

@ gamadaya-

Is that right? Then why do we see so much praise for EA regarding Burnout Paradise's free content? Should we be praising MS instead since apparently they make all the pricing decisions? It's funny how nobody can seem to decide who is responsible for DLC pricing. When people want to like a company that is releasing overpriced DLC, they blame MS...but yet we can praise the devs of Burnout Paradise for all the free content that supposedly they do not have the authority to decide upon a price for in the first place?
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 15:03
Sharpless
@brainboy77
...which they then provided free-of-charge, shortly after release. Oh, and they also threw in another game mode with that same update.
Etalyx's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 15:20
Etalyx
@brainboy77 - Amen.

If I buy L4D2 at all, it will probably be used, months after release. Then maybe all of their maps will be playable in multiplayer.

@Sharpless - If by "shortly" you mean "months" then yes, you are correct. After most people had had enough.
Yehat's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 16:07
Yehat
@akathatoneguy

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there also updates to Burnout Paradise that cost money?

Looking at them now there really appears to be vary content difference and no real standard: "Bikes are free, toy cars aren't. New online game modes are free, offline party mode isn't". In fact from the looks of things the free updates stopped in 2008. I'm not suggesting that some of the new updates aren't huge, such as Big Surf Island, but at the same time there appears to be no consistency other than time.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything despite brewing up a good can of worms here. Ultimately Microsoft has the last say on pricing for DLC so it begs the question "Is there a standard now to free DLC? (on the 360 at least)" is it based on Release time? Size? Sponsor? I'm not saying I know the answer but I personally do thing the issue of pricing DLC has gotten at least a little out of hand.
Yehat's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 16:25
Yehat
Sorry I sort went off on another tangent there. What I was suggesting was that Burnout Paradise's DLC was free within a timespan (via sponsorship from EA perhaps?) of their release, every update within 2008- free. After that the Carriage turns into a pumpkin, if you will. Since there's not much content size difference between Bikes and Toycars other than one came out in 2008 and the other in 2009.
Minamu's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/31/2009 18:35
Minamu
"doing your job and making a good game, and providing a high level of service for that game at the time of release and post-release"...Yet L4D1 is still lacking in the post-release area amiright? :D
KrazyKraut's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/01/2009 00:30
KrazyKraut
(*_*) (*_*) (*_*) (*_*) (*_*) (*_*) We luv used games, because the old games are made with passion and skill (*_*) (*_*) (*_*) (*_*) (*_*) (*_*)
Caelum Nocte's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/01/2009 01:23
Caelum Nocte
Meh, I'll wait to buy a game that I might like, such as Mass Effect, until it is 15 dollars used, as it is now. You can say 5 bucks, but I'd rather save 45 bucks personally.
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/01/2009 05:04
Sharpless
@Etalyx
Actually, judging from the large numbers of people who still play L4D on a regular basis (on both PC and 360) I'd say that very few of them have "had enough."
Etalyx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/01/2009 13:22
Etalyx
@Sharpless - Alright, alright it's still number 9 on the top Live games. Looks like Valve's leash is still holding strong.
Electrium's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/05/2009 15:03
Electrium
I don't really see the problem with used games. You don't see furniture manufactures whining about when their brand new bed frame is sold at rummage sales...(EXAGGERATION, I know). But I do understand the fight against piracy, and they hit the nail on the head. A significantly smaller amount of people will want to pirate a game if they miss out on awesome bonuses/features that come with purchasing the game.
prev next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!

 

   Got news?   tips@destructoid.com   |   Dtoid Twitter

New Videos

more videos


Reviews & Previews
BioShock 2 review
Dante's Inferno review
Chime review
Hustle Kings review
iPhone Review Round-up: January review
more reviews
Dawn of War II Chaos Rising
Metro 2033
A trip to the racetracks Days of Thunder Arcade
Double the pleasure, double the fun with Darwinia+
Wizarding world in plastic Lego Harry Potter Years 1-4
more previews


- The Dtoid Army is 56703 strong -

Showing Cblogs with 3+ faps   show all

Call for entries: the Areas of my Expertise

New to Dtoid? Read the survival guide


 Originals
Jonathan Holmes: Analyzing No More Heroes 2, part 2: The bosses, part 2





















More Destructoid Originals




We are Destructoid   tips@destructoid.com
Nick Chester
Editor-in-Chief
Niero
Founder, Big Boss
Jim Sterling
Reviews Editor
Hamza Aziz
Community Manager
Dale North
News Editor
Rey Gutierrez
Destructoid Video EIC
Anthony Burch
Features Editor
Brad Nicholson
Managing Editor
Tom Fronczak Colette Bennett
Ashley Davis Ben Perlee
Conrad
Zimmerman
Chad Concelmo
Jonathan Holmes Jonathan Ross
Brad Rice Jordan Devore
Will Maddock Matthew Razak
Josh Tolentino
Joseph Leray
Topher Cantler Samit Sarkar
     
  Adam Dork
Daniel Lingen
Hollie Bennett
Joe Burling
Mikey Turvey






 
 
  get involved

register or login
post a blog
post a forum
enter a contest
contribute a news tip
suggest a feature
be a guest editor
support

new member's guide
login assistance
tech support
report abuse
email our editors
read our dev blog
nuclear crisis?
keep in touch

RSS feed
Twitter
Facebook
Myspace
Flickr
Game nights
Meetup+play online
seriously

about Destructoid
advertising
terms of use
privacy policy
jobs at MM
buy our crap
our network

Tomopop
Japanator
Despingation?




Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
living the dream since March 16, 2006