Valve explains why L4D2 mods on Xbox 360 'can't' work

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Home Left 4 Dead

10:40 AM on 11.09.2009, Jim Sterling

50 comments

Valve explains why L4D2 mods on Xbox 360 'can't' work photo

#Left 4 Dead #Mods #PC #Valve #Xbox 360

If there's one thing that PC versions of (non-Infinity Ward) games have over console versions, it's the excellent modding community. PC gamers have been able to extend the longevity of their favorite games almost infinitely by designing their own variations, be they serious or funny. It's something that would be awesome to have on the Xbox 360 version of Left 4 Dead 2, but Valve has explained why something like that could never happen.

"One of the problems now when you look at a lot of the mods that are made is they can't run on low-end PCs, they can't even run on mid-end PCs often -- they can only run on high-end PCs. They can't run on Xbox 360," explains writer Chet Faliszek. "There's a lot of work we do to get things to the performance levels that are acceptable for us. You look at a lot of the modders and obviously that's a very technical thing; you have to know the engine and the tools very well.

"... The coolest thing we could ever do would be to take something that was made by the community and share it with everybody -- including Xbox 360 owners. How that happens and what work needs to be done is a little bit complicated."

And here we thought it was just Microsoft being a c*nt.

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49 comments | showing # 1 to 49

TheLegendaryMan

So he is telling us the Xbox isnt powerfull enough to process mods.
I cant buy that.But on the other hand PS3 does...and it has orange box...
maybe...nah it would never happen.

Fiat Mediocrity

Really? You didn't know?

Cyber Altair

By that logic the PS3 is a high-end PC since the PS3 UT3 version has mods.

The-Excel

And let's not forget the fact that console mods depend on inserting files into the hard drive or the disc, which many console users can't do.

Carl Sagan

Maybe next generation.

linuxguy

'when you look at a lot of the mods that are made is they can't run on low-end PCs'
but a lot of them do, also UT3 on the ps3 is calling your bullshit.

Holyetheline

I think they should still try to port some of the more successful mods to 360 and make them DLC if it's possible.

Tarvu

So the only console Valve support isn't poerful enough to do what they want on it.

molath

Also, a lot of mods make use of copyright material, that would be an absolute nightmare to license.

foolishwolf

Valve is a bunch of twats. Talented as they are, they are still a bunch of twats.

Exostenza

I am amazed people think the Xbox 360 has a reasonable amount of power compared to todays technology in computers. Considering this I am also amazed that people think the graphics on the consoles are still good. The Xbox 360 is almost 5 years old and it really, really shows!

ssboisen

I think the problem lies in the optimization, what you guys have to realize is that the code on the xbox 360 has to be much much more optimized for that platform than something running on a pc has to be, because the pc is so much more powerfull. And since mods obviously aren't optimized for the xbox 360 it becomes a problem. With regards to mods for UT3 - it's a totally different engine so how mods work could be vastly different from L4D

El Mabo

Well, having worked with the source engine, I can say that a lot of optimizing need to be done to have a decent frame rate! And this was in a gaming school, with professionals who know the tool from previous mod experience. Even with all the resources thrown at the project, we sometimes had problems fixing all the issues.

Now that I use professionnal, internally developed tool at a big video game company, I see a whole department dedicated to optimize the game, especially for console!

A lot of work is needed to achieve a decent frame rate on consoles, and the moding community simply doesn't have the resources and time to fix everything.

Then again, I'm speaking of the Source Engine. The UT engine may be different somehow? Anyone know more about that?

dj-anon

ssboisen: I agree because the Source engine is a mess.

Drakengard

I can understand why they are saying this. PC games are stuctured in a way in which they are scaled to the specs of the PC. For the console, the games are not built with the idea that more content will be added to it and are optimized for one specific hardware set.

Now, certainly small mods would work just fine. I mean, if the console doesn't have room for a few measly megabytes of data for a tweaked character model or something then there's a real issue with the game to begin with. But adding a whole new game mode like Prop Hunt to Team Fortress 2 is another story most likely.

gamadaya

UT3 mods on PS3 doesn't prove shit, as some non-moron above said. But I still do think the main obstacle here is Microsoft. Even if Valve allowed for free DLC that they created from user mods, MS wouldn't.

Muetank

Little things like new gun models and skins that are easy to change on PC isn't so easy on consoles but like UT3 shows, it can be done. The bigger problem is finding a way to implement it with other games just as easy. Total conversion mods are a different thing though. High rez textures in mods would seriously hinder the performance on a console. All the new maps and models would take up a serious chunk of hard drive space too.

Magnalon

I love how Microsoft is holding their own console back from breaking into the PC market by refusing to have free DLC (mods) they don't even have to make.

linuxguy

@gamadaya: morons? don't you think it's a bit much?

Qraze

its really because ms won't allow user created content on their closed network without charging for it and then they would have to pay the creaters, which they wouldn't want to do in the first place. that's the main reason along with all the other excuses.

Knives

Why are people bringing up the PS3 and UT3 when he's specifically talking about the 360?

brainderailment

Bullshit

wutang4ever

yea I'd believe that but theres this game called unreal tournament III for the PS3 and it supported mods and most of them ran pretty well. Split-screen + mods = endless replayablility

SnatchTease

Pimp bomb explosions w/ flying zombie limbs on 360 look like poop compared to the PC version. Love how the zombies still disappear in a puff of smoke w/ limbs added as some sort of after-effect.

Jon B

So, that lo-res pack for TF2 requires more power now, does it?

@Knives
Because the PS3 version of UT3 supports mods perfectly fine with no problems.

Locke

LOL

IF there is one thing... PC gaming is better in almost ALL regards. Only the EXCEPTIONS are better for console gaming... lol

but it doesn't take a very high end systems... what is "high end"? I would say a $400 computer is pretty high end and can run pretty much every mod I have heard of...

I can't think of one that couldn't

sprldr

Valve are simply lying. They don't give a shit about the console versions of their games, or the console gamers themselves.

silentdawn7

:Translation: MS will not let you download these to your 360 for free and since this is user content we can not charge you for it and so we can not sell it to you either. We at valve do not want to upset MS by pointing this out so instead of telling you this we are giving you this lame excuse in attempts to dodge a bullet.

Best wishes
Valve.

pedrovay2003

Maybe they should support the console that can handle mods, then.

Knives

@Job B
Yeah i know, but why bring up the PS3 when he's not talking, referring or mentioning it at all when he's talking about mods in the interview?

I mean, he's saying "xbox360 can't run mods", why is the counterpoint "Lies! the ps3 can!!" ? Just doesn't make much sense to me.

SPY-V

I don't think people are asking for top quality pc graphics. I think they just want to mod. it can be done as with ut3 and lbp on the ps3. I think valve wants the control because of steam and MS wants the control for DLC money...end of story.

oldskool

A console running a particular game that uses a particular engine can play mods, so Valve's a liar about their own game not being able to run mods of a different engine on a different console.

In other news, the Modern Warfare 2 manual is lying when it says you can't move your character by shaking the controller, because that's totally how the Wii FPS games work.

hpv

Funny, mods work on UT3 on Playstation. Valve just suck and don't know how to make games properly. And Gabe Newell is a big, fat idiot.

sprldr

@knives

He's saying that mods on Xbox 360 "can't" work, but his boss says that the PS3 is a "waste of everybody's time", despite the fact that the PS3 has been proven capable of supporting mods. The irony is bitter.

Miguelcar808

According to Epic mods can be implemented on the 360 but MS said no.
If I'm not mistaken Epic has released user made maps packs for the 360.

Malachi Constant

Let's not forget that Microsoft would never allow mods. They'd never allow anything extending the longevity of a game on their platform without a $10 price tag on it. Basically Valve is saying this because MS wouldn't appreciate Valve calling them out for being the greedy dicks that they are. The reason UT3 mods were playable on PS3 is because PS3 is a less restricted system, where content can be distributed in more or less whatever way the developer wants.

dgschrei

Anybody who has played Fakefactory's Cinematic Mod for Half Life 2 knows that this is the truth. Damn that mod by now requires a 64 bit Operating System because all the High Res Textures take up such crazy amounts of Ram.
But oh does it make HL2 look good. Especially in Full HD. A feat which both consoles can't even achieve with the standard version. But my 80 � Graphics card can. ^^

Here are some comparison pics to drool over. The lower ones of each pair is the Cinematic mod. As if one couldn't see the difference immediately.

Yehat

I actually did a quick blog post on Source Engine mods (PIMP MY BLOG http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Yehat/mod-watch-half-life-2-multiplayer-mods--154457.phtml:D )

A lot of Source mods really push the engine beyond its design parameters and if you look back and compare Half-Life 1 to the popular mod Natural-Selection(1) you'll find that NS actually requires a 32bit video card which is NOT required to play Half-Life 1. Of course that's an extreme case but there are others such as Sven Co-Op and Paranoia. Sometimes the things designed in the mod just plain ole weren't optimized for the engine.

El Mabo
^^^
This guy is 100% correct too.

Also a thing to remember about UT3 is for the most part a lot of the bigger mods were just not portable to the PS3 because there are limitations for mods on the PS3. For example what was only just fixed recently was that NO NEW audio could be added for UT3s PS3 version. However other limitations still persist that keep mods like The Haunted from showing up on the PS3.

Nickosha

Consoles have a hard enough time running the games at 30 FPS. Only some content mods might be able to work, but even then it would be a hard time because of licensing and having to guarantee they'll play smoothly. If you want mods, then why did you buy a console?

I think Valve's statement is trying to appease console gamers, even. Unless they have some whacked sense of the word midrange, they are totally wrong. IMO, midrange is like a $600 PC and I don't think there are any mods that they can't handle. Midrange pc's can actually play most games on very high at resolutions higher than 720p, so there's no problem there. Except for mods that vastly increase the graphics, even a low-end machine can handle mods.

Locke

if you want mods just expect to own a PC. consoles wont have many mods until the users of consoles can create the mods n the console.

mrsatan

And yet he claims the 360 has a stronger community? Funny how you contradict yourself Gabe.

WarZombie

Yeah, sorry Valve, but I have to disagree with you here. UT3 on PS3 has mods, which completely invalidates your argument. As different as the engine may be, if Epic somehow found a way to make it work, then Valve certainly can. Then again, I'm no games developer, so I don't really know, but I'm just talking about what I'm noticing here. Even if it wasn't possible, I would love to see some of the better mods make their way to 360 in the form of DLC. Even if MS charges, some of those Campaigns look amazing.

Wedge

Yeah I'm pretty sure if you could test mod work on a 360 like with the XNA kit, you could make something optimized to run on it just fine. But nice try to make excuses.

Aksumka

It's funny reading comments from people who have no idea what they are talking about. Read some of the intelligent comments, what Valve says (REGARDING THE SOURCE ENGINE BTW. No idea why people keep bringing up Unreal...) is true.

Take a look a user made TF2 map and then at a Valve made one. The amount of work they put in to optimize the maps is insane.

Wedge

Yeah so that totally explains why user made maps never make it in to the official updates. Oh wait...

Just because there are a lot of junky poorly optimized maps on PC doesn't mean better mappers aren't capable of making things that would run fine. We all know there is no way Microsoft would EVER allow free mod content to make it's way onto games on their platform. Valve just seems to be on this weird kick of trying to excuse having their games be on 360 and not PS3 lately for some reason.

shinigamiDude

Captain Obvious said PC > Xbox360 T__T

Locke

PC's arent better; they are better 90% of the time. Plus you save money considering almost everyone who owns a console owns a computer too. The games are cheaper, you get more features and mods for free almost always better graphics cheaper $20 games from steam and other palces... You CAN choose a community and friends with dedicated servers. The computer can serve as your HTPC as well with DVR and you can still use an XBox controller, and blu ray is cheaper on pc. The only thing it loses is split screen. Really thats it.

Snickersnee

PC superior to the Xbox Shocker. hey guys when you want too pick up your knuckles and get into real gaming get a PC. k thx bye

Enossir

I think its the fact the the pc gaming master race does not wish for the dirty console peasants to play with there toys less they think to rise above there station.

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