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Valkyria producer upset by Wii Fit and 'casual' games photo

A couple of us can't wait to see some solid JRPG action heading to the PS3, and Sega's Valkyria Chronicles appears to be the answer we're looking for. This tactical RPG looks pretty and producer Akira Nishino certainly thinks we should all be playing it, but one thing he's less enthusiastic about is the success of certain so-called "casual" games on another so-called "casual" system.  In an interview with a Japanese site, Nishino had this to say about the future of the games industry:

"There is a problem with the platforms ... Its a shame that games like Wii Fit sell ... They aren't games ... I did make some casual titles too ... But really ... Wii Fit and Wii Sports should be the gateway for the non-gamers ... But ultimately they should play proper games like Valkyria Chronicles."

Aside from the fact that it's amusing to see a producer telling us that we should all ultimately be playing his "proper" game, it's also interesting to note yet another Japanese developer criticizing the Wii's mainstream edge. No More Heroes creator Suda 51 has already noted how Nintendo doesn't take care of third parties, and here's the producer of a PS3-exclusive, traditional Japanese game disconcerted with Nintendo's current direction.

Are these stalwarts feeling threatened by the myth of casual gaming? He does somewhat have a point in remarking that Wii Fit isn't a proper game (it really isn't), but does that necessarily mean it shouldn't sell?

Regardless, it's not so much Wii Fit that's the problem -- it's this insistence everybody has on drawing a thick dividing line between hardcore and casual gamers, something Nishino himself has just been guilty of. Until companies stop marketing certain games to a certain crowd and other games to another, how are we expected to see growth in this industry? If Nintendo and companies like it stopped trying to split its audience into idealistic, black-and-white pigeonholes and actually marketed games to gamers, regardless of their playing preferences, perhaps we'd actually see "proper" games selling as well as others. 

Or maybe not, since people are stupid and never bought Gitaroo Man. Never know until you try though.


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30 comments | showing # 1 to 30
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Professor Pew's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:31
Professor Pew
"But really ... weed and shrooms should be the gateway for the non-users ... But ultimately they should use proper drugs like meth."

I dunno about not targeting gaming preferences for the industry as it has grown into. It feels like saying: target consumers instead of teens with money or working class males in their 30's. Ohhh wait, now I see! ;)

You know, in 20 years we're gonna get a documentary called The King of Wii. About two grannies who got the highest score on Wii Sports bowling when they were still milfs.
Boolean's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:32
Boolean
Wii fit? He should be complaining about how stupid fucking Mario and Sonic at the Goddam retard Olympics managed to break 5 million fucking copies.
Koobert's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:39
Koobert
I would disagree. I feel that casual games and more intensive, complex, or artistic games can co-exist. Why not? As for Wii Fit itself, I'm going to buy it, because I like the general idea behind it... and I'm always up for help and motivation in exercising. Combining that with gameplay certainly is not a bad idea.
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:39
Dexter345
I don't think it's necessarily a shame that stuff like Wii Fit sells, even if it's not technically a game. It's a product that people apparently want, and you need a Wii to use it, so what?

Nor do I necessarily think that Wii Sports or Wii Fit should be the gateway to Final Fantasy or Call of Duty. Some people--and there is a market like this--are perfectly content to buy a Wii and only play Wii Sports on it. There was no chance they'd play Valkyria to begin with; it's not like they're choosing between Wii Fit and his game.

There are still plenty of "proper" games that do sell, and in those cases, it's a function of franchise power, hype, and ultimately the quality of the game.
Mxyzptlk's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:43
Mxyzptlk
Yes, because all gamers should play the games I want them to, and not what they personally enjoy. They should also read the books, watch the movies, and listen to the music I pick out for them.
Anus Mcphanus's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:49
Anus Mcphanus
I think wii fit is a great idea and does help the industry because it demonstrates that games consoles can do more than just play games and movies. I may not buy it myself but I definitely recognize it for helping expand the market and help the industry evolve.

As for the "thick dividing line between hardcore and casual gamers" it's a shame that everyone is so insistent on segregating people's tastes but it's unavoidable really since games are still not as highly regarded as music and film are and are hence more looked down upon by the public. So for casual games to sell they are marketed as "games for non-geeks" which is bullshit
Kaspar's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 07:58
Kaspar
Less whining, more delivering.
Axle's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 08:03
Axle
Patently Nishino-san has not read your article on types of gamers, in which you dismiss any notion of 'casual gaming'.

He really should be more erudite about the key elements and ideologies of videogames in the future.
Roel's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 08:03
Roel
[quote]Until companies stop marketing certain games to a certain crowd and other games to another, how are we expected to see growth in this industry? If Nintendo and companies like it stopped trying to split its audience into idealistic, black-and-white pigeonholes and actually marketed games to gamers, regardless of their playing preferences, perhaps we'd actually see "proper" games selling as well as others.[/quote]

I think you got that backwards, Jim. If the games industry ever wants to grow up, their marketing strategies should be diversified rather than generalised. The fact that not all gamers are alike needs to be firmly planted into the designers', producers' and publishers' heads. The casual/hardcore division is of course utter nonsense, but so is what you appear to be suggesting here - that every game is suitable for every gamer. That's about as sensible as claiming that every song is suitable for every listener.

To put it another way, if you made a horror movie, would you mrket it to "all moviegoers", "casual moviegoers" or "hardcore moviegoers"? The answer is of course none of the above. You would market it towards those moviegoers who enjoy the horror genre.

So, is marketing certain games to a certain crowd and other games to another a good idea? You bet it is! The problem is, the crowds are currently just horribly misidentified...
MmhmBeer's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 08:12
MmhmBeer
Who gives a shit it's just the Japanese buying this crap anyways. I don't know one person who is planning on buying this game, or has more than two games for the Wii. I have a Wii and haven't seen much sense in getting anything but No More Heroes and Metroid Prime. Although I will prolly be getting brawl, either way these games selling is an Asian phenomenon.
Mizruko's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 08:16
Mizruko
I agree you cant really call the current crop of wii crap much but to make a statement saying they are not real games well it just yells SOUR GRAPES to me. That aside i think casual gamers are making the slow migration from things like wii sports to more conventional games with a story line ect.
Hughesmar's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 09:49
Hughesmar
Seriously, fuck this guy. Who is he to tell me what games I should be playing?
ajay42's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 10:05
ajay42
@mmmbeer "I have a Wii and haven't seen much sense in getting anything but No More Heroes and Metroid Prime. Although I will prolly be getting brawl, either way these games selling is an Asian phenomenon."

Why not Galaxy? Or Zak and Wiki? Too 'kiddie'? Anyway, I'm pretty sure Wii Fit will sell as well if not much better in health-regiment obsessed America. Its not like Wiis w/ Wii Sports aren't flying off the shelves here too.

"I feel that casual games and more intensive, complex, or artistic games can co-exist."

Of course I agree, but when ever I see people lament the 'divide' as casual vs. 'mature' or 'artistic' I wonder what the hell they are talking about. Whats so 'mature' or 'artistic' about the vast majority of so-called 'hardcore' titles? T and A? Bigger Guns? Are these the measure of maturity and artistic quality? If gamers/games critics want people to start taking games seriously as an artistic medium (and to have more grounds for the claim themselves beyond the Duchamp 'its art cause i say it is' argument) they need to start thinking long and hard about what the criteria for artistry in games is; what the ultimate essence or essences of the medium are that drives it in a uniquely different direction from other media. What is its cannon and why? (and then the post-cannon critique of what is excluded , principles of exclusion, etc.) As it stands now, what stands in for 'maturity' in gaming is adolescent male fantasy and what stands in for artistry is seldom even addressed, its just assumed. Are there games that have come out recently that are big guns-mature but also legitimately artistic? Sure, bioshock and possibly mass-effect come quickly to mind. But if I think about a certain interactivity and experience being the basis of the medium of games and a subsequent different understanding of personal perspective and narrative engagement, then I could easily argue that Portal or Super Mario Galaxy are of greater artistic content than either of those two games.
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 10:05
Holyetheline
Valkarya Chronicles... I don't even know what that is. I bet it's not nearly as fun as Wii Fit though. I want to do the Skiing.
DonWii's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 10:13
DonWii
And it is harder for "the casuals" to make a transition from Wii Sports to "proper games" if developers like you don't put a lot more of them on the Wii, so that there are more choices.

These "casuals" aren't going to invest in a new system to play "proper games".
sweetchuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 10:16
sweetchuck
@Roel
I agree, especially at how misidentified target markets are. The games industry is definately in an awkward place right now, with mass media thinking gamers are all teen boys, and developers and gamers alike pushing people into one of two categories. It will take some time, but things will get sorted out. Gamers shouldn't care if it's "casual" or "hardcore", just if it's good. Developers should do the same, but usually it's all about the benjamins.
RJG's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 10:24
RJG
And here I was thinking those hours of fun I had with casual stuff like Audiosurf were valid.

How wrong I was.

If we all had to play with this bastard's sense of fun, we'd all be performing in the maths olympics.

SRPGs are a very niche genre outside of Japan. I bet there are plenty of western gamers who would say that they're not even "proper" games because you don't actually control a character, only a menu.
Daynger777's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 11:30
Daynger777
I'd just like to say I tracked down, bought, beat, and love Gitaroo Man. Mojo King Bee FTW
MissHinasaki's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 11:36
MissHinasaki
I feel like ranting but I don't even know what to rant about. I think it's funny as hell when producers make shit out of the Wii, though. I respect them for having the balls to do that. But I've come to realize that causal gaming is not the spawn of Satan as we'd all like to believe it is. Everyone has the right to play video games. I just think what gets us all up in arms in when he catch wind on companies focusing more on causal games and thinking that marketing hardcore games should be a thing of the past. We should just set that god damn rumor mill on fucking fire.

Sure, the Wii's lineup can be considered annoying as all hell to a lot of hardcore gamers and I think it's wrong for Nintendo to only focus on causal games with cute lil waggle gimmicks, but.... wait.... I don't really know what I was trying to justify.

But anyways, hardcore gaming isn't going to just up and disappear, and I think companies realize that if they were going to do that, they wouldn't get away with it without a fight, so lets all just STFUAJPG and play nice with the other not so cool kids.
Corak's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 11:41
Corak
I won't be picking up the Wii Fit, but I can definatly see a market for it. If this can get a few tubby people/kids up to do some exercise then its a good thing. Behind smoking, obesity is the #2 leading cause of preventable death here in the states, and it will be #1 if trends continue.

Granted its not a true "game" but this guy is off his rocker if he thinks people shouldn't be buying what they want to and only what he thinks. Granted hes biased because of his position but come the fuck on dude. I own a PS3 and am biased towards it but I don't bash the 360 because its a great system to, just not for me.

Bottom line: Play the games you want to, not what some biased a-hole tells you to.
tincow's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 11:49
tincow
Translation:

"I want to cash-in by releasing a series of derivitative and boring JRPGs that fanboys will all buy no matter how bad they get, BUT my boss is seeing data that games with broader appeal and original ideas are selling great and is suggesting I try that -- Whatev!"

Hardcore games have dominated the market and even mediocre FPS/JRPG/Sandbox or Action games have been selling well. I smell fear on these people that this dominance is slipping and they might have to come up with an original idea.
Mr Jonson's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 11:54
Mr Jonson
If it's between Wii Fit or a tactical JRPG, I think i'd go for the feet waggle
kariomart's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 11:58
kariomart
What an asshole. Who is this guy to define what a "proper" game is? Personally, I don't see a novel's worth of text, turn based bore-fests , and another lame plot about saving the world as a proper game.
Burnt Meatloaf's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 14:42
Burnt Meatloaf
I think this is aimed more at investors.

I don't get upset when I see products like WiiFit on the market. I get upset when investors see that stuff like this sells, so they pull their cash out of traditional development.
Pixel Blue's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 16:39
Pixel Blue
RJG: If we all had to play with this bastard's sense of fun, we'd all be performing in the maths olympics.

That's certainly how he comes off, doesn't he? What an ass.

Hopefully his game isn't the stereotypical "hey, I'm pointlessly hard!" JRPG I've come to loathe. His comments don't instill a lot of confidence in me.
HarassmentPanda's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 18:27
HarassmentPanda
I don't think it's a shame that people are buying these games. Sure, "gamers" are buying them, but I think the large majority of people who do buy Wii Fit wouldn't be buying games at all if it wasn't for such titles--certainly not a more involved game like Valkyria Chronicles.
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 19:13
Wedge
I... just want that fucking Valkria game. A lot.
Necros's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/06/2008 21:08
Necros
You might have missed it, but the developer who made the Panzer Dragoon games and Phantom Dust lamented about the current Japanese obsession with casual games in a 1UP interview a while ago. He regretted how proper games with actual depth are getting harder to make over there.
Psychedelic Sex Machine's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/07/2008 00:39
Psychedelic Sex Machine
When a game developer tells me to buy his game, I listen because I know I'm getting good advice. These guys know their stuff.
ahelmert's Avatar - Comment posted on 03/07/2008 12:43
ahelmert
Gamers are elitist a$$holes. That is the only reason this article exists. This is just more proof that hardcore gamers will always try be superior to anyone who doesn't like the same things they do. Get off your high horse and accept that video games are becoming mainstream and will have multiple applications, serving many different markets. This, in the end, is a positive result because it creats more opportunities for development throughout the industry.
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