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Update: Fallout 3's 200 endings aren't really endings, but permutations

7:37 AM on 03.25.2008, Colette Bennett 51 comments

Update: Fallout 3's 200 endings aren't really endings, but permutations photo
     Fallout

If you read yesterday's post concerning Fallout 3 and its endless endings, you may either be more excited than ever about the game's upcoming release or slightly confused about who has time to play a game through 200 times to get every ending beyond crazed completionists. Thanks to an update from Fallout 3: A Post Nuclear Blog, it seems that we're wrong to think there are 200 individual endings. Kind of.

Direct quote from Todd Howard on the OXM podcast:

Todd Howard: Being that we are Bethesda…everything gets a bit big. So as of last week we’re over 200 endings. That is not an exaggeration, but it deserves some description. 200 endings…that’s a lot. So originally when we started, we had various iterations of the ending. The ending is kind of cinematic, that’s dynamic based on the things you’ve done.

When we started, it was kind of fuzzy, it was like “well there’s like 9 maybe 12″ and we started adding things to it. So if you had done this or not this, you’d get this other tweak to the ending. And we kept doing that. And you know even just two weeks ago someone had this idea, “Oh we should add this idea to the ending” (sorry I’m not going to spoil what that is). And I said, “oh that’s a genius idea, we have to do that.” But then it became, “oh, but there’s four versions of that.” So i was like, “okay there’s like four different versions of that part,” and that multiplies by, at the time we were at about 60 endings…so now there’s four versions of that, so now there are around 240 versions.”

The games on paper when we get started…they’re alot smaller, and then as we go they get bigger…we can’t stop ourselves. We’re have tons of people with good ideas here, and if they’re good and fit the tone, we’re going to try to jam as much into the game as possible. Fallout is probably twice the size of what we originally had on paper…it’s pretty big, so that’s what’s happened with the endings.

So some of that stuff is the big things of what you do very late in the game, some of those are things like your karma — how you’ve lived your life from the beginning of the game — you get certain scenes based on your karma. But we kind of like the ending as much as like the game itself at the beginning is you tailoring your character and then you play throughout this game, and unlike Elder Scrolls, where it’s a game where you can keep playing, Fallout 3 has a definite ending. So we wanted to go to efforts to make sure that the actual ending you get when you finish and get the ending, and make that ending reflect and make it individual to the user’s experience. We’ve definitely gone a little overboard.

As far as I'm concerned the point of concern is left unchanged, but this does mean that each player will likely have an entirely different experience playing Fallout 3. That is a very unique thing for any game to offer. Regardless, some gamers will feel cheated in that they may never achieve every nuance of this game without an unrealitic devotion of time and effort, and that's an issue worth discussion. 

Does the fact that the 200 endings could contain 150 permutations mean anything to you as a gamer? Are 10 great endings better than 200 miniscule deviations? Somehow I feel sure that math is coming into this very soon, and I hate math. I leave you to discuss amongst yourselves.

[Thanks Briosafreak]


Next page: More Fallout stories




catsithx's Avatar
catsithx at 03/25/2008 07:40
I guess there trying to break crono triggers 12 endings record
dyslixec's Avatar
dyslixec at 03/25/2008 07:44
I'm still quite excited about this. Simply for the reason that you could play through this game so many different ways and get something different in the end. Now how drastic is that difference? We will have to see, but if they are bold enough to make a statement that there will be 200 different unique experiences, then I am all for that.

Play through fallout 3, mess around and do your own thing after you beat it. Months pass and you start downloading custom addons for the game (like oblivion / morrowind has) and you eventually stumble upon more endings while going through the experience. Then a couple of years pass and you miss the experience of fallout 3. Now perhaps you will get something different from the first time you played through. \

Like I said they havent really described how different the endings are from eachother, they could be very very small differences, but if they are large, then by george I'll take it!
ScottyG's Avatar
ScottyG at 03/25/2008 07:51
Permutations or not, completionists need to steer clear of this game unless they want it to be the last thing they do. ;)
reticulate's Avatar
reticulate at 03/25/2008 07:52
This is just like the first two games. Hopefully they get Ron Perlman to do voiceover for the endings, that would kick ass.
hjd uk's Avatar
hjd uk at 03/25/2008 07:53
Par Example: Ending options.
Good/Bad (2) * Male/Female(2) * Rich/Poor(2) * SavedNPCBob/Didn't(2) * ReachedLevel:2,5,10,20(4) = 64 endings.
RJG's Avatar
RJG at 03/25/2008 08:02
Not to sound like a dick, but I thought that was exactly what it was when I first read it.

The great thing about Bethesda is the mods. The community will step up and fix everything wrong with Fallout 3. Like they did with Oblivion. And Morrowind.

Bethesda: We make games, you fix them, but we keep the cash.
psycho terror2's Avatar
psycho terror2 at 03/25/2008 08:11
seemed obvious from the beginning really - and it's not a new idea so i don't know why anyone was even surprised.

considering the different ending combinations you could get in fallout 2 for example 200 endings doesn't sound ridiculous at all. i never replayed it to get every possible ending, but it's nice to see something different each playthrough.
B-Radicate's Avatar
B-Radicate at 03/25/2008 08:24
As long as it's something akin to the ending for Marvel: UA where the story told at the end reflected your actions, although to a much more in-depth degree, that's cool with me. But 200 totally different endings would piss me off. It's not like I'd replay it that many times. Permutations are acceptable.
NotAZombie's Avatar
NotAZombie at 03/25/2008 08:32
@ RJG

Yeah same here. There is just no way you have 200 completely unique, from the ground up endings in a game.
dtomek's Avatar
dtomek at 03/25/2008 08:36
Doesn't seem much different than the original fallouts. As for whether I think it is a good idea? I sure do. Having an ending that is tailored around choices I actually made is not a bad thing in any way.
NukaCola's Avatar
NukaCola at 03/25/2008 08:44
Thanks for clearing that up. There were wayyyy too many people taking this news the wrong way. It was incredibly annoying.
BlackDove's Avatar
BlackDove at 03/25/2008 08:45
Works just like the original fallouts which is fine by me.
Niero's Avatar
Niero at 03/25/2008 08:50
THINK OF A.D.D. PEOPLES' FEELINGS! SO CRUEL!
AgentMOO's Avatar
AgentMOO at 03/25/2008 09:05
thanks shepherd for SAVING THE UNIVERSE despite YOUR TROUBLED PAST. As a reward you will get LOTS OF PIZZA ROLLS, and several FEMALE love slaves!
HarassmentPanda's Avatar
HarassmentPanda at 03/25/2008 09:09
It feels good to be validated:

"HarassmentPanda says:
03/24/2008 18:12
Yeah, I imagine Fallout 3 will have a lot of variables that produce different results in the conclusion. So, the "200 hundred endings" will be combinations of the different possible results."
Brilliam's Avatar
Brilliam at 03/25/2008 09:24
I remember hearing the 200 endings thing and thinking that it would jsut be permutations, but fuck it, this is EXACTLY what I want out of game endings. I want it to be similar to what my friends got, but not the same, so when we talk about it in the future, there will be differences in how it went down so we can talk about the little differences. I hope nobody tries to get all 200, but I certainly hope I get to see at least one or two, and my friends all see one or two so we can chat about them. THAT'S what I call social gaming.

As a MEGA fan of Fallout 1/2, and a total non-fan of Oblivion, I'm still excited! I hope Bethesda can do this as well as I hope!
Briosafreak's Avatar
Briosafreak at 03/25/2008 09:24
Thanks for clearing that up.

If you don't know how the Fallout games dealt with the end game ask someone who does, you'll see it's a very similar aproach.

If you do know the classic Fallout games then you just need to know that there will be less permutations (at this point) and karma will have a central role on how they will occur. But as I said before in the end it is very similar, on this issue there will be some continuity, and that's good.
king3vbo's Avatar
king3vbo at 03/25/2008 10:25
Dyslexic pretty much said it all for me. This sounds like a game I'm going to put a lot of hours into
CjnLion's Avatar
CjnLion at 03/25/2008 10:49
200 permutations was what I assumed from the original article. 200 unique endings... that's preposterous! It can't be done! IT CAN'T BE DONE!
Y0j1mb0's Avatar
Y0j1mb0 at 03/25/2008 10:56
That's cool. Now bring out the game.
Professor Pew's Avatar
Professor Pew at 03/25/2008 11:04
Who would've thought!
DinnertimeNinja's Avatar
DinnertimeNinja at 03/25/2008 11:22
Seemed pretty obvious from the first press release, really.

And I think this is totally in keeping with the previous Fallouts (1 and 2 at least) in that, no matter how many times I play through the damn game (and it's upwards of 5 or so each at this point) I feel like I'm seeing new stuff every time.

Well done, chaps. Well done.
tincow's Avatar
tincow at 03/25/2008 11:54
It's pretty crazy that anybody would care even if it was 200 completely different endings.

But then again, I also think it's crazy people get obsessed over dumb things like Gamerscores and Achievements...so I'm obviously baffled by "hardcore gamers" in general?
Cheeburga's Avatar
Cheeburga at 03/25/2008 12:32
That is horrible.
Whoever gets them all is a god.
brad drac's Avatar
brad drac at 03/25/2008 12:50
Complaining about too much content? Whut? I don't really see this as being much different than a technologically more advanced version of the fallout 1/2 ending system. I just don't get why people would feel the need to play every single tiny portion of a game in order to not be pissed off.
SubOrbital's Avatar
SubOrbital at 03/25/2008 13:09
Complaining about too much content = STFU.
mistic's Avatar
mistic at 03/25/2008 13:11
I love this idea! The personal experience being different for virtually every gamer is brilliant!

then we can compare "your" ending with that of fellow-gamers and see where the differences lie... I think its a great idea, plus I kinda needed that kind of engine anyway for the fakegame I posted on my blog last week :-)
ArrestedDeveloper's Avatar
ArrestedDeveloper at 03/25/2008 13:12
DOGMEAT!!!

Also, 200 permutations!
therob92's Avatar
therob92 at 03/25/2008 13:32
Sounds exactly like the other Fallouts, with a few more options maybe, no big deal. What I do wanna know though, is if they are gonna have the ending FEEL so segmented and transparent. I remember the first 2 basically going through each city and saying "you did this - this happened, you did that - some other thing happened". I would like some combined endings based on doing things in areas A, B, and C, as well as an overall ending that was also variable. Though, I guess an overall ending that isn't variable to push forth the original "life sucks, war never changes" type of message would be fine too, if not preferred.
Gstaff's Avatar
Gstaff at 03/25/2008 13:53
Well that's not exactly a directquote. I took a stab at transcribing the main point there. At any rate, if people are confused, I definitely think listening to the podcast helps.
Palidi's Avatar
Palidi at 03/25/2008 14:19
Although I like the idea of the endings being altered by the way certain events go down, there better be like 4-12 concrete ending categories. Like theres still the ending where you save the world, and one where you've dommed it, but they have all these little differences in them depending on what you've done throughout the game.
Necros's Avatar
Necros at 03/25/2008 14:41
I kind of guessed this was the case anyways.
Demtor's Avatar
Demtor at 03/25/2008 15:29
Bethseda does not make games for completionists, which is why I love them. Oblivion/Morrowind were the same way. Its really up to you to forge your own storyline for your character. I always felt if you didn't role play your in game character a little bit you didn't get as much enjoyment out of it. Me, I had about 10 different characters for Oblivion, each with their own look, style of fighting, sidequests I did or didn't do and factions I did and didn't join. (Yes, I nerded out on that game BIG TIME)

To me it seems they are taking that concept to the next level with endings to reward those choices, which is AMAZING! No matter how you played your game in Oblivion, the quests pretty much end the same without any really impact on the world itself, expansions being the only real exception. I can't wait for Fallout 3. Its going to fantastic.
Eschatos's Avatar
Eschatos at 03/25/2008 16:02
They should have just said how many real endings.
RobotsAlive's Avatar
RobotsAlive at 03/25/2008 16:31
http://snagwiremedia.com/consolepatrol/2008/03/fallout-3-has-a-ton-of-endings.html

when are we going to get to see some actual gameplay!?????
TheDirtyHobo's Avatar
TheDirtyHobo at 03/25/2008 16:51
200 endings isn't even that much, considering it doubles with each simple yes/no toggle switch. They'll be up to 800 endings if they just add two more "Did you do this? y/n?" checks to the game.

The good thing about having this many endings is that now the actions of what you did or didn't do in the game will stay true with the ending. If so-and-so gets killed during the final showdown, I doubt they'll be there to congratulate your heroism as soon as the fight is over. It keeps everything within the game consistant.
Fleet3000's Avatar
Fleet3000 at 03/25/2008 17:04
uch that makes the mind reel. so how do i know which ending i actually get? will it say at the end of the... ending or whatever?

psst... this was ending #144. only 199 left to go!
Wedge's Avatar
Wedge at 03/25/2008 18:30
Huh? You mean someone thought that's what they really meant?
Victor Stillwater's Avatar
Victor Stillwater at 03/25/2008 19:27
Death is an ending. What's the other 199 permutations. :)
Mr Lazy's Avatar
Mr Lazy at 03/25/2008 21:03
this game wasn't even on my radar until a few days ago now its right behind GTA4 as my most anticipated games of the year
Im OK's Avatar
Im OK at 03/25/2008 21:13
Soooooooo.... it's basically like Fallout 1 and 2 then? That's what I would have expected anyway.

I'm sure someone has already said this, which basically makes this here comment pointless. Yeah, due to lack of time at the moment, I haven't read the preceding comments of this article and I missed the last article entirely until now.
animateria's Avatar
animateria at 03/25/2008 23:19
Duh?
Seventh Rectory's Avatar
Seventh Rectory at 03/26/2008 00:43
"and unlike Elder Scrolls, where it’s a game where you can keep playing, Fallout 3 has a definite ending."

Thank you Jesus!
CreamyGoodness7's Avatar
CreamyGoodness7 at 03/26/2008 03:59
ending # 36 - You find daddy and have 4 children, happily ever after!
ending # 37 - You find daddy and have 5 children, happily ever after!
Vecktor's Avatar
Vecktor at 03/26/2008 09:58
@therob92: Actually fallout 1 & 2 had more possible permutations, because it had more endings for each town.

Extracted from NMA
"Fo1 has 19 different endings, with 360 possible permutations. Fo2 has 47 endings with 1,105,920 permutations. If 200 is the number of permutations for Fo3, they are seriously behind. That would correspond to maybe 10-20 endings. But I'm assuming they'd have to be talking about permutations since you should know when designing a game whether you'll have ~12 or ~200 endings. You don't accidentally hop from 12 to 200 endings late in the development process and send in an order for 188 additional voiceovers from Ron Perlman (because he will KILL YOU). With permutations it would be thinkable, at least."
Holyetheline's Avatar
Holyetheline at 03/26/2008 10:54
It was fun reading about how he explains it. The whole time I was like "Um, ok, wtf?"
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