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I remember when everyone was complaining about the SNES' inferior technology and how it held them back from creating extraordinary games that provide a timeless experience which still holds up today.
Wait a sec ...
Wait a sec ...
Another day, another big publishing exec tries to get shareholders back on board. EA and Ubisoft put up huge numbers on the back of digital services, yet still can't manage to get people interested in buying shares.
They'll blame everyone and everything for their stock woes, as long as they feel it will placate the shareholders.
They'll blame everyone and everything for their stock woes, as long as they feel it will placate the shareholders.
Penalized? In which way? By NOT making a lot of money for shitty games? Oh "poor" ubisoft.
And how do they call the fact that I bought Driver and it simply DOESNT WORK because of their shitty DRM? A gift perhaps?
Fucking pricks. Can't even make a decent pc port. They're the ones that can't grasp technology, and penalize customers for that. Bunch of fuckers.
And how do they call the fact that I bought Driver and it simply DOESNT WORK because of their shitty DRM? A gift perhaps?
Fucking pricks. Can't even make a decent pc port. They're the ones that can't grasp technology, and penalize customers for that. Bunch of fuckers.
I strongly disagree. If a new generation arrives with bloated development cost and higher cost for the customer we are gonna see almost zero innovation.
Imagine how few risks will be taken when even more money is on the line
Imagine how few risks will be taken when even more money is on the line
"...it's important for the entire industry to have new consoles because it helps creativity."
He would have had a point twenty years ago. The reason why the SNES had so many classics was because most of them were series or ideas that started off in NES. The NES was so weak that when the powerful SNES came out it was like unchaining the creative beast.
We have reached the point where the next generation console won't be able to do anything that the current gen can't do aside from graphical improvements. Sure you can make the main hero's cape not clip into his legs, but that isn't a major gameplay feature.
It's just Ubisoft being Ubisoft.
He would have had a point twenty years ago. The reason why the SNES had so many classics was because most of them were series or ideas that started off in NES. The NES was so weak that when the powerful SNES came out it was like unchaining the creative beast.
We have reached the point where the next generation console won't be able to do anything that the current gen can't do aside from graphical improvements. Sure you can make the main hero's cape not clip into his legs, but that isn't a major gameplay feature.
It's just Ubisoft being Ubisoft.
hey, everyone know best than the executives that have actual real numbers, stats and studies about the matter.
hurray internet!
hurray internet!
Industry penalized by continuing existence of Ubisoft. Nuff said.
Seriously it's almost impossible to get stuff out on the existing hardware. That's why most of the Indie devs don't even bother and stay on PC where it doesn't matter that much if your graphics aren't "ZOMG PRETTY" .
Seriously it's almost impossible to get stuff out on the existing hardware. That's why most of the Indie devs don't even bother and stay on PC where it doesn't matter that much if your graphics aren't "ZOMG PRETTY" .
The most creativity nowadays come from indie developers who typically don't create games with AAA graphIcs, and I doubt they'd care about a shiny new console.
Sony releases a new system every 6 years, if all of the rumors for the PS4 hold true we'll probably see that system late next year or early 2014 .. so it would be 7 years after the PS3's release (not too far off of Sony's trend).
The Wii-U is pretty much being released on par with Nintendo's 5 year cycle.
....Please, enlighten me on how this generation of consoles has somehow lasted painfully long compared to past ones?
The Wii-U is pretty much being released on par with Nintendo's 5 year cycle.
....Please, enlighten me on how this generation of consoles has somehow lasted painfully long compared to past ones?
Yes, raising production costs is always the way to make more money. Gamers love buying new console too. It's the only way to make your old console obsolete.
" I understand the manufacturers don't want them too often because it's expensive, but it's important for the entire industry to have new consoles because it helps creativity"
What? What? Was I in another dimension that whole time the best stuff was coming out at the end of a consoles lifespan when the technology and dev.tools were perfected? And since when does a new console just magically equate to pure creative potential? These days it has just as much potential as the console that preceded it.
The only thing console manufacturers can rely on now are gimmicks and buying out other companies' exclusivity. THAT'S what you're waiting for ubi? Because it seems like that's already here...
What? What? Was I in another dimension that whole time the best stuff was coming out at the end of a consoles lifespan when the technology and dev.tools were perfected? And since when does a new console just magically equate to pure creative potential? These days it has just as much potential as the console that preceded it.
The only thing console manufacturers can rely on now are gimmicks and buying out other companies' exclusivity. THAT'S what you're waiting for ubi? Because it seems like that's already here...
" I understand the manufacturers don't want them too often because it's expensive, but it's important for the entire industry to have new consoles because it helps creativity"
What? What? Was I in another dimension that whole time the best stuff was coming out at the end of a consoles lifespan when the technology and dev.tools were perfected? And since when does a new console just magically equate to pure creative potential? These days it has just as much potential as the console that preceded it.
The only thing console manufacturers can rely on now are gimmicks and buying out other companies' exclusivity. THAT'S what you're waiting for ubi? Because it seems like that's already here...
What? What? Was I in another dimension that whole time the best stuff was coming out at the end of a consoles lifespan when the technology and dev.tools were perfected? And since when does a new console just magically equate to pure creative potential? These days it has just as much potential as the console that preceded it.
The only thing console manufacturers can rely on now are gimmicks and buying out other companies' exclusivity. THAT'S what you're waiting for ubi? Because it seems like that's already here...
btw, "next gen games" are already being made, every major AAA game released on PC the last couple of years is pretty much a "Next Gen" Game, studios are already rendering with enhanced rendering setting and high rez assets for 1080p. Production cost increase? if so having 6 year old hardware make it more of a pain to optimize.
What I get from Yves statement is that new consoles make it easier to launch new franchises, looking back at story I tend to agree. How is that any bad?
What I get from Yves statement is that new consoles make it easier to launch new franchises, looking back at story I tend to agree. How is that any bad?
If having new consoles automatically mean better quality games, then I could see this as a valid complaint, but I'm of the opinion that developers really haven't utilized the current consoles to the fullest. I still don't feel like any of the major consoles has done anything particularly spectacular. I am still waiting for the PS3 to have the variety and diversity of the PS2. It's still too soon for new consoles IMO.
I see his point and agree that it's less risky to introduce new IP with new hardware.
Console launches always seem to have "goldrush" characterisics with developers seeking to stake their claim on the next big thing.
I think there's still interesting things to be had this gen, but lately it's been on the digital side of things (for me at least). XBLA has been a beast this year!
Console launches always seem to have "goldrush" characterisics with developers seeking to stake their claim on the next big thing.
I think there's still interesting things to be had this gen, but lately it's been on the digital side of things (for me at least). XBLA has been a beast this year!
I stopped caring about what Ubisoft has been saying a long time ago.
We all know if the new consoles were here we would still get Assqueef, Ghost Recon, Asscrease, continued butchering of splinter cell, and some more Asscreed.
I don't know, maybe they would annualize Watchdogs and Rainbow Six?
We all know if the new consoles were here we would still get Assqueef, Ghost Recon, Asscrease, continued butchering of splinter cell, and some more Asscreed.
I don't know, maybe they would annualize Watchdogs and Rainbow Six?
And when will publishers and devs learn it is their own willingness to be creative that will make new IPs.
That, and of course making a new IP that does not suck, that doesn't get critically panned.
That, and of course making a new IP that does not suck, that doesn't get critically panned.
the old consoles cycle just wasn't sustainable, in my uneducated opinion. Pushing for bigger and better really killed those studios. Saturation, stagnancy, these are some of the reasons, perhaps, to why pushing a bigger and better console may not be the answer.
Yet...people have money. Kickstarter funds are a testament to that. Especially that ouya console. But the ouya is the exception from other consoles; it's in no way bigger or better, just provides something different.
Yet...people have money. Kickstarter funds are a testament to that. Especially that ouya console. But the ouya is the exception from other consoles; it's in no way bigger or better, just provides something different.
This is coming from the studio that has put out 5 Assassin's Creed games this gen, and it working on their 6th (at least 9 if we count portables).
All they're going to do is launch one new IP, and whore it out for another 7 years.
All they're going to do is launch one new IP, and whore it out for another 7 years.
@Omar
I don't think anyone would argue a rise in production costs doesn't happen with a new console generation, or at least I've never seen anyone argue that games are cheapest to make when the hardware is at its newest.
There are at least a handful of ways your second point could be argued against, or at least its tone, but it would all be moot anyway. The only thing people should really take away as a matter of concrete shit from what Yves has said here is that shareholders aren't happy with the fact that they're not seeing returns, and that Ubisoft, like any of the larger publishers has done in the last few years, is going to make public statements concerning the fact that it is the market's fault, and not its own.
This is less gaming and more business. It's a message to the shareholders, not the average gaming consumer.
I don't think anyone would argue a rise in production costs doesn't happen with a new console generation, or at least I've never seen anyone argue that games are cheapest to make when the hardware is at its newest.
There are at least a handful of ways your second point could be argued against, or at least its tone, but it would all be moot anyway. The only thing people should really take away as a matter of concrete shit from what Yves has said here is that shareholders aren't happy with the fact that they're not seeing returns, and that Ubisoft, like any of the larger publishers has done in the last few years, is going to make public statements concerning the fact that it is the market's fault, and not its own.
This is less gaming and more business. It's a message to the shareholders, not the average gaming consumer.
Sigh, Ubisoft and its fucking bullshit statements.
It doesn't help creativity, I'm sorry. Sure having more "might" to work with probably helps, but where does it help really? Graphics and AI? isn't that usually where they (developers in general) bitch the most about needing new hardware?
AI I can see, because it means smarter enemies.. What I don't see about that is the fact that the enemies we end up seeing are rarely all that much smarter then the ones we saw in the last generation. Small leaps really don't make up for a lot.
And graphics? Well, Jim's already writen about why that shouldn't matter before. No need to retread that water.
The real "creativity" is in how you use and create gameplay experiences, something developers really haven't seemed to move very far forward on in this generation. And thats usually because something gets in the way, usually a budget, or a set of market research, or wanting to milk DLC. The business needs to change, not the hardware.
Now, I'm not saying we couldn't use new hardware, we probably could. What I am saying is that it probably won't change shit when developers get their hands on it. If the cycle is going to stay the same, then whats the fucking point?
(Also, it goes to show you that Ubisoft doesn't give a shit about burying console makers or their customers in a heap of costs, just so they could make a buck off their backs. Classy Ubisoft.)
""It's a lot less risky for us to create new IPs and new products when we're in the beginning of a new generation."
While I understand this to be true, having seen it myself, what I said still applies, as I don't believe Ubisoft will actually provide very many, if any, new IPs.
That said, this is another thing, call it a mindset, that just simply needs to change for everyeone, from the gamer all the way up the chain to the heads of publishers and console makers. This sentiment is acidic. Caustic to the point where it seems to be enforced simply to keep developers from really working to get the most out of what they have, while they lackadaisically demand newer hardware that they'll equally take for granted as soon as they get it, let alone at the end of its 5 year (or more) run.
For the consumer, its caustic because so few ever go for the new experience, so they never see that there even IS a new experience out there to play, while claiming there never is one. This is mostly due to the loss risk we take to our pockets, and not necessarily because "our friends are playing them too" (Dude pretty much just made a Holmes-esque "lemmings" comment, right there; simply to dodge the obvious).. And again, who's fault is that? Oh, right, the publishers who think selling brand new IP's for $60, basically throwing them under a bus before they get started, is a grand idea. Further proving the *business* of the industry is downright broken.
Overall its really a matter of pointing to the indie sector and saying "how come they can do it, or even do more, with inferior hardware and tons of limitations?". If there was one thing I'd have to pick right now, in this moment, that indie sector is good for, its blowing Ubisoft's bullshit reasoning out of the water.
And yeah, your right, Consoles, or the lack of new ones, didn't kill any of those developers.. It was all poor business choices or marketing pratfalls. 38 didn't go under because Amalur was a shitty game, because it was far from it. Hell, it didn't go under because it wasn't supported by EA, because EA supported the shit out of it. It went under because they made stupid business choices that bit them in the ass.. I'm serious when I say that developers looking to get into the industry should also be made to take a minor I business, simply to protect themselves.
It doesn't help creativity, I'm sorry. Sure having more "might" to work with probably helps, but where does it help really? Graphics and AI? isn't that usually where they (developers in general) bitch the most about needing new hardware?
AI I can see, because it means smarter enemies.. What I don't see about that is the fact that the enemies we end up seeing are rarely all that much smarter then the ones we saw in the last generation. Small leaps really don't make up for a lot.
And graphics? Well, Jim's already writen about why that shouldn't matter before. No need to retread that water.
The real "creativity" is in how you use and create gameplay experiences, something developers really haven't seemed to move very far forward on in this generation. And thats usually because something gets in the way, usually a budget, or a set of market research, or wanting to milk DLC. The business needs to change, not the hardware.
Now, I'm not saying we couldn't use new hardware, we probably could. What I am saying is that it probably won't change shit when developers get their hands on it. If the cycle is going to stay the same, then whats the fucking point?
(Also, it goes to show you that Ubisoft doesn't give a shit about burying console makers or their customers in a heap of costs, just so they could make a buck off their backs. Classy Ubisoft.)
""It's a lot less risky for us to create new IPs and new products when we're in the beginning of a new generation."
While I understand this to be true, having seen it myself, what I said still applies, as I don't believe Ubisoft will actually provide very many, if any, new IPs.
That said, this is another thing, call it a mindset, that just simply needs to change for everyeone, from the gamer all the way up the chain to the heads of publishers and console makers. This sentiment is acidic. Caustic to the point where it seems to be enforced simply to keep developers from really working to get the most out of what they have, while they lackadaisically demand newer hardware that they'll equally take for granted as soon as they get it, let alone at the end of its 5 year (or more) run.
For the consumer, its caustic because so few ever go for the new experience, so they never see that there even IS a new experience out there to play, while claiming there never is one. This is mostly due to the loss risk we take to our pockets, and not necessarily because "our friends are playing them too" (Dude pretty much just made a Holmes-esque "lemmings" comment, right there; simply to dodge the obvious).. And again, who's fault is that? Oh, right, the publishers who think selling brand new IP's for $60, basically throwing them under a bus before they get started, is a grand idea. Further proving the *business* of the industry is downright broken.
Overall its really a matter of pointing to the indie sector and saying "how come they can do it, or even do more, with inferior hardware and tons of limitations?". If there was one thing I'd have to pick right now, in this moment, that indie sector is good for, its blowing Ubisoft's bullshit reasoning out of the water.
And yeah, your right, Consoles, or the lack of new ones, didn't kill any of those developers.. It was all poor business choices or marketing pratfalls. 38 didn't go under because Amalur was a shitty game, because it was far from it. Hell, it didn't go under because it wasn't supported by EA, because EA supported the shit out of it. It went under because they made stupid business choices that bit them in the ass.. I'm serious when I say that developers looking to get into the industry should also be made to take a minor I business, simply to protect themselves.
Definition of irony: this news hitting the internet on the same day that Ubisoft says, in a letter to Gamestop (source: Kotaku)
"We are currently in the process of creating a complementary development team that will begin working on post-launch episodic content to continue the Game of the Year experience that Assassin's Creed 3 will undoubtedly deliver...with a dedicated team specifically to this content [sic] we plan to set the bar for quality DLC in our industry".
Maybe if you want the industry to flourish, don't put all your bloated filthy eggs in a DLC basket months before your game is even out. I really like Ubisoft's games, but this is just slimy. There are so many slimy people making decisions about where this industry is heading right now. It makes me deeply unsettled.
"We are currently in the process of creating a complementary development team that will begin working on post-launch episodic content to continue the Game of the Year experience that Assassin's Creed 3 will undoubtedly deliver...with a dedicated team specifically to this content [sic] we plan to set the bar for quality DLC in our industry".
Maybe if you want the industry to flourish, don't put all your bloated filthy eggs in a DLC basket months before your game is even out. I really like Ubisoft's games, but this is just slimy. There are so many slimy people making decisions about where this industry is heading right now. It makes me deeply unsettled.
I would like some new IP though, and the next console generation will bring that, but only because developers are too lazy/scared/what have you to bring it now.
"It helps creativity" What a load of shit, technology doesn't equal creativity. As recently as last generation I was playing games with vastly more variety in their art style, ideas and designs. If anything this generation has proven all the graphics chasing just leads to an endless sludge of bland samey titles aimlessly competing for who can be the most realistic.
I wouldn't say it's penalizing creativity unless creativity translates into aesthetics. I'm going to call bull**** on anyone saying new hardware doesn't lead to more innovative gameplay though, there are so many games that have been hindered because adding certain elements just wasn't possible. Do you think Portal would have been possible on an SNES?
I'm gonna ask what at least one other D-toider might be wondering: How does The Punisher have a hairy upper body but has absolutely nothing going on downstairs?
Agreed. A lot of publishers are starting to complain about this now, they're ready to move forward with new tech, and MS and Sony want to drag their heels. If this is the way they're going to do business, then it's no wonder other types of devices started to permeate into the market and are getting a foothold.
This has gone on too long. The consoles are the only part of the tech sector right now that are refusing to move forward because they want to milk their current business models. It's sad that my not even four year PC gets more love these days because it can run games better than the Xbox 360 and PS3 can. I don't want devs to have to get "creative" now, when you use terms like that, that means you're being held back. They should have been able to have the tools they need to make the games look as pretty as they want. I want good looking games too.
This has gone on too long. The consoles are the only part of the tech sector right now that are refusing to move forward because they want to milk their current business models. It's sad that my not even four year PC gets more love these days because it can run games better than the Xbox 360 and PS3 can. I don't want devs to have to get "creative" now, when you use terms like that, that means you're being held back. They should have been able to have the tools they need to make the games look as pretty as they want. I want good looking games too.
What Ubisoft really means is that it is a lot harder to sell shitty games on the current generation of consoles than it would be on new ones. There are plenty of great games available on the current gen consoles so people aren't tempted settle for whatever crap is churned out for a new console. Red Steel was a perfect example of this. It sold fairly well only because it was a Wii launch title, not because it was a great game.
I agree that we need all new consoles right now, because Just Dance just isn't an immersive enough experience. Just imagine what they could do with all new hardware...perhaps make a game that actually recognizes your moves.
What I see:
"We released to shitty sequels to AC3 with little innovation and new stuff.... as we lack ideas to make better game we need new hardware to make better graphics"
"We released to shitty sequels to AC3 with little innovation and new stuff.... as we lack ideas to make better game we need new hardware to make better graphics"
There's less competition when there's a new console.
So ubisoft can release shit garbage like Red Steel and make a profit.
So ubisoft can release shit garbage like Red Steel and make a profit.
How do these buckle heads figure this? I'd actually prefer to see them push the next gen off even longer. For cripes sake just looking at the next God of War you can tell there just has to be plenty of juice left to be utilized in the PS3. As much as I like to poke fun at it, there's probably a little more juice to squeeze out of the litterbox too. If Microsoft would just drop the price tags on their hard drives to help make up for the DVD limitations anyway.
Except so far every "next gen" engine they've showed off is making a lot of headway in streamlining the process of development and making everything as painless and efficient as possible.
I can see games getting cheaper to make, but then again you can't really cry havoc over that kind of prospect and that doesn't generate hits.
I can see games getting cheaper to make, but then again you can't really cry havoc over that kind of prospect and that doesn't generate hits.
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Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ Ubisoft, we get that you're unhappy with the current console generation, but can you shut the fuck up?
Our current console generation hasn't been around as long as the PS2/XBOX, nor do I think that anyone (except maybe people like Rockstar and DICE etc) have pushed the boundaries of the systems that are out now. Maybe if you were to stop being fucking retarded about your PC DRM, and started developing these "next-gen" games that you have SOOOOOOOOO ready, except for the PC only, then the next console generation would start.
Hey Ubisoft, how about you get excited for the Ouya? Why aren't you? Oh, that's right, because you won't be able to get away with releasing the same franchise with minor updates for $60 more, with an additional $70+ in DLC.
Our current console generation hasn't been around as long as the PS2/XBOX, nor do I think that anyone (except maybe people like Rockstar and DICE etc) have pushed the boundaries of the systems that are out now. Maybe if you were to stop being fucking retarded about your PC DRM, and started developing these "next-gen" games that you have SOOOOOOOOO ready, except for the PC only, then the next console generation would start.
Hey Ubisoft, how about you get excited for the Ouya? Why aren't you? Oh, that's right, because you won't be able to get away with releasing the same franchise with minor updates for $60 more, with an additional $70+ in DLC.
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