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Not really. Nintendo just happens to be smart enough to capitalize on it and yet at the same time be able to retain loyal customers.
If you were worried about the fall of hardcore gaming, I would have started worrying right around the time that cute character 3D platformer/shooters flooded the market. To worry about it now is mailing a letter from the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.
Maybe this will cause developers to step up their games and make some real solid titles instead of rehashing the same crap year after year and copying the biggest trends...
Oh who am I kidding, this won't affect shit
Oh who am I kidding, this won't affect shit
Eh, I don't think things are as apocalyptic as all that. I mean, it's natural that, with all things, the mainstream will sink its claws into everything we hold dear, but like Tubatic said, it's happened already.
Before the Wii, we had Singstar and all that karaoke crap, and everyone's played Mario. Besides which, whatever the Wii does, I don't think that's going to stop the PS3 and the 360 tailoring to their hardcore market, who are also their core market.
Besides, anything that further legitamises games in the eyes of the many is a good thing. It makes games harder to ban, it's harder for fuckers like Jack Thompson to find a voice. Casual gaming is the key to we hardcore gamers winning the war. Like with music and television, we'll eventually have our medium accepted and the dissenters will have to find some new form of entertainment to demonise.
This is a good thing.
Before the Wii, we had Singstar and all that karaoke crap, and everyone's played Mario. Besides which, whatever the Wii does, I don't think that's going to stop the PS3 and the 360 tailoring to their hardcore market, who are also their core market.
Besides, anything that further legitamises games in the eyes of the many is a good thing. It makes games harder to ban, it's harder for fuckers like Jack Thompson to find a voice. Casual gaming is the key to we hardcore gamers winning the war. Like with music and television, we'll eventually have our medium accepted and the dissenters will have to find some new form of entertainment to demonise.
This is a good thing.
What I'm saying is that our genre will fragment much like movies and music. We are the new arthouse.
It's hard for me to convey and for you guys to really see what's going on behind the scenes, so I'll accept the blind criticism, Kannon. That's fine.
Face it, if there is a market for it, it will be made. If the 'hardcore' games go away, blame yourselves.
Well look on the bright side, it's just Ubisoft. It's not like we're losing games like Dragon Quest or Parasite Eve to this trend. At least we still have people like David Jaffe still hard at work for us.
...wait a second. Shit.
...wait a second. Shit.
I agree with Summa, that gaming is fragmenting into more widespread genres. And when other development houses step out of the hardcore arena to pursue more general interests, perhaps new ones will come in to take their place and take those risks.
I have feared this for a long time...there were many warning signs (EA/Madden, Playstation, DS, XBL) and not much can be done to undo it...
I hope that among the multitude of completely worthless casual bs games that gems of greatness will shine through...and in all honesty I can only deal with so many AAA games a year...so keep shoveling the casuals crap to devour and save the main course for the gamers.
I hope that among the multitude of completely worthless casual bs games that gems of greatness will shine through...and in all honesty I can only deal with so many AAA games a year...so keep shoveling the casuals crap to devour and save the main course for the gamers.
My God Summa, someday, I'm going to pass out from an anger induced heart attack because of you. You are Totally blowing things out of proportion. Nintendo isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before. Look at DDR and Guitar Hero for christ's sake. They have simple controls that anybody can play that are more focused to a wider audience yet I haven't heard you bitch about them. You try to justify hating the wii for oversimplifying things and making it more mainstream even though videogames had already started switching over to the mainstream. The ps2 is more responsible for this then anything else, but it's not a bad thing. More people getting into this industry can't be anything but a good thing because games will get bigger budgets and need I remind you that it's the casual gamer's that insure a systems success. How do you think the ps2 was so successful? By marketing to strictly hardcore gamers? If you think that you are a bigger idiot than I thought.
Goddamit, this is not a unique phenomenon to videogames, the diversifying and broadening of a market has happened to every industry, the only reason why the games industry is taking this new step in the right direction so badly, is that it is made up of 16-35 year old males who have the most marginalised ignorant view of an interaactive artform they just assume they understand but actually don't.
Just one example form many: The car industry got much better once they realised there was money to make from the female car market, going back even further, the mini changed the definition of car forever, for the better. The Wii is like a mini.
Hardcore gamers have had over twenty years of having things their way, and what exactly has that done for the industry? I'll tell you - an industry made up of shooting, driving or hitting something, an industry still at a caveman level of interaction. It is just so fitting that such an immature, blinkered group such as hardcore gamers can't see the irony in calling the Wii a kiddie machine or blaming the only real design company (Nintendo) left in the industry, for the demise of "proper" gaming.
When are people going to wake up and actually see what is happening before their eyes, games are evolving for the better, this is the worst it will ever get, the teething stage...you know what? I'm wasting my time here.
Just one example form many: The car industry got much better once they realised there was money to make from the female car market, going back even further, the mini changed the definition of car forever, for the better. The Wii is like a mini.
Hardcore gamers have had over twenty years of having things their way, and what exactly has that done for the industry? I'll tell you - an industry made up of shooting, driving or hitting something, an industry still at a caveman level of interaction. It is just so fitting that such an immature, blinkered group such as hardcore gamers can't see the irony in calling the Wii a kiddie machine or blaming the only real design company (Nintendo) left in the industry, for the demise of "proper" gaming.
When are people going to wake up and actually see what is happening before their eyes, games are evolving for the better, this is the worst it will ever get, the teething stage...you know what? I'm wasting my time here.
There is no problem with the games industry, Summa is making shit up and being hysterical as usual, don't let his behind the scenes claim fool you, I work "behind the scenes" and the only threat to the games industry is the crapness of game developers. That's it and that is how it has always been and always will be, are developers going to rise to the challenge or not? If not then bye bye games industry.
The games industry is completely technology reliant, it has no choice but to keep evolving and innovating or else it becomes a pointless indusrty based on technology for the sake of technology. Sony started off so well with the Playstation (a near perfect home console) but with the PS3 they have let technology dictate the pace instead of evolving with the need for innovation. The Wii/DS movement was inevitable, and like I keep saying: If Nintendo didn't do it then someone else would eventually.
The games industry is completely technology reliant, it has no choice but to keep evolving and innovating or else it becomes a pointless indusrty based on technology for the sake of technology. Sony started off so well with the Playstation (a near perfect home console) but with the PS3 they have let technology dictate the pace instead of evolving with the need for innovation. The Wii/DS movement was inevitable, and like I keep saying: If Nintendo didn't do it then someone else would eventually.
Just to conclude, I don't know why Summa presents an either/or scneario. This is not how it works at all, it's not about hardcore games or softcore games, it is about harcdcore AND softcore. Just like car enthusiasts go out and spend a lot of money on a high end performnce car, most regualr people purchase a reliable, affordable car, perhaps one day they will fall in love with cars and then go on to buy one of the big boys, but the important thing is that the choice is there for everyone.
All companies working within a healthy, diverse market, create products for both ends of the spectrum. BMW produce the Mini and they also produce the BMW 7 Series, the car enthusiast and the casual driver are catered for, there is no problem. This is a business model which ca be applied to any industry, including the games industry.
So Summa taking a screenshot of a casual game to use as a propaganda peice for his apocalyptic outlook has no credibility whatsoever.
All companies working within a healthy, diverse market, create products for both ends of the spectrum. BMW produce the Mini and they also produce the BMW 7 Series, the car enthusiast and the casual driver are catered for, there is no problem. This is a business model which ca be applied to any industry, including the games industry.
So Summa taking a screenshot of a casual game to use as a propaganda peice for his apocalyptic outlook has no credibility whatsoever.
Man, I wish I was an automatic expert on stuff like Kannon :( If I was able to Type playstation into google and then copy the first thing that came up I could argue with people that know like 50 times more than me and almost not sound like a complete douche.
Eh... I'm not worried about casual gaming too much. I play plenty of hardcore and casual games and think there's room for both. There will always be those who want something with a little more depth than Cooking Mama.
Everybody really needs to chill on the Summa hating. The guys not really making a criticism of Nintendo here. Just seems like more of a general observation as to how the industry is moving and how this has been spurned on by Nintendos efforts. I don't think there is anyone who could seriously deny the industry is becoming more casual so the question is indeed where we as the 'hardcore' stand in this evolving industry. At what point (if indeed any) does it become financially inviable for companies to stop producing 'hardcore' titles. In 10 years time will Nintendo really care about dedicating 4 years and massive amounts of manpower into creating Zelda and Metroid when they can fire out the likes of Brain Training, Nintendogs, Wii Sports etc for a fraction of the time and cost and sell more copies of these games?
I second the cooling on Summa hating. The gaming industry is going more casual and has been for years. Blatent mixing of casual and hardcore games on one console is just the next step, and Summa and Sterling's discussion further up is spot on. If the Wii does come out on top, get used to more casual games, which we'll all have to adapt to. It won't be terrible, and we'll still have the dedicated franchises, but we will have to learn to be even more elitist, though I doubt that will be hard for most gamers.
My beef with casual games is that they're too easy and don't make you think. They're stupid, and people love them for it. PCs still offer the best hardcore experience, because the console developers don't want to bother with anything that "isn't accessable to everyone." I don't like having to buy expensive PCs to get my strategy game fix.
Guess what, dumbasses... not everyone likes the same thing. I'm not going to be entertained if your intention is to make me vegetate.
And yes, even 20 years ago, 90% of the software on the market sucks. Good software is rare and always will be, so stop this "fragmentation" BS. What bugs me is that more and more *good* developers are going casual.
Guess what, dumbasses... not everyone likes the same thing. I'm not going to be entertained if your intention is to make me vegetate.
And yes, even 20 years ago, 90% of the software on the market sucks. Good software is rare and always will be, so stop this "fragmentation" BS. What bugs me is that more and more *good* developers are going casual.
Anyone who calls themselves a "hardcore gamer" is already an elitist outsider, by their own proclamations. This changes nothing. If we see less bland generic "epic" shooters and such, and more games with mass market appeal that can legitimise gaming to the mainstream(and still y'know, be fun), mores the better.
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