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Was Jessica Nigri there and dressing up as Juliet for fun or on behalf of Warner Bros. as a promotional thing? If on behalf of Warner Bros., I hope they sue the shit out of PAX for asking her to change clothes or leave.
@Tristrix
Like I said earlier, if their outfit is highly relevant to the game, such as dressing up as a main character from the game their representing, and they actually know the product and is able to talk and answer questions about it, I see no problem with E3 booth babes.
Like I said earlier, if their outfit is highly relevant to the game, such as dressing up as a main character from the game their representing, and they actually know the product and is able to talk and answer questions about it, I see no problem with E3 booth babes.
ATTENDEES have been asked to leave/change their outfit at PAX previously as well. It's not only Booth Babes/Paid Cosplayers/whatever who are subject to this. The rules might be a little less stringent, but they still exist.
@arkane9
There ya go there, there's where we'll differ. I find the whole booth babe thing embarrassing and lame and I think that kind of thing panders to the worst kind of stereotypes about us as gaming enthusiasts.
That's just me, though. I don't expect everyone to agree on that, I can see how someone might find that silly. If I'm not mistaken, though, I believe PAX does agree with me about it, which would explain all this.
There ya go there, there's where we'll differ. I find the whole booth babe thing embarrassing and lame and I think that kind of thing panders to the worst kind of stereotypes about us as gaming enthusiasts.
That's just me, though. I don't expect everyone to agree on that, I can see how someone might find that silly. If I'm not mistaken, though, I believe PAX does agree with me about it, which would explain all this.
When 2K had the booth babes at the Duke Nukem Forever booth during PAX, were they asked to leave? Honest question, I don't remember the outcome. I recall people getting riled because they had booth babes there and the "No Booth Babe" rule.
@Tristrix
Not only do I disagree with your stance 100%, but I think this entire back-and-forth you're having with arkane9 is completely irrelevant to what happened. First she was told to change, and she did. Then she was told to change or leave, despite having worn the second outfit of Day 2 for the entire first day. I don't know if you've seen the original Juliet Starling outfit, but its a cheerleading outfit. Someone almost got kicked out because of a cheerleading outfit. The conversation you're having is based on a way of thinking that wasn't even applied in this situation.
And while I don't necessarily think it's sexism, I wouldn't be surprised if this played into someone's old way of thinking when it comes to video games. It's that male power fantasy, and in the male power fantasy there's no place for sloppy, unattractive men, or sexy, independent women. However there is room for shirtless, musclebound men. Because shirtless, musclebound men are totally badass, right?
Not only do I disagree with your stance 100%, but I think this entire back-and-forth you're having with arkane9 is completely irrelevant to what happened. First she was told to change, and she did. Then she was told to change or leave, despite having worn the second outfit of Day 2 for the entire first day. I don't know if you've seen the original Juliet Starling outfit, but its a cheerleading outfit. Someone almost got kicked out because of a cheerleading outfit. The conversation you're having is based on a way of thinking that wasn't even applied in this situation.
And while I don't necessarily think it's sexism, I wouldn't be surprised if this played into someone's old way of thinking when it comes to video games. It's that male power fantasy, and in the male power fantasy there's no place for sloppy, unattractive men, or sexy, independent women. However there is room for shirtless, musclebound men. Because shirtless, musclebound men are totally badass, right?
Having read the other comments I don't see what the controversy is over. He broke the rules he had just signed to be allowed back in after being kicked out last year. She was a "booth babe" which goes against their rules. WB should have known the rules before hand. As for not kicking her out the first day, people get away with things until they are caught. Seems pretty simple to me.
@The Juda
I don't believe they were told to change or leave. They were there for the duration of the event. Which is really shitty considering the PAX staff had to have helped them setup their area. But Suda51 doesn't pay the big bucks so...surprise, suddenly booth babes are an issue again.
I don't believe they were told to change or leave. They were there for the duration of the event. Which is really shitty considering the PAX staff had to have helped them setup their area. But Suda51 doesn't pay the big bucks so...surprise, suddenly booth babes are an issue again.
@Rabite
I think the point of the second issue is that this wasn't an issue for Duke Nukem Forever, which had a huge presence at PAX. Also "people get away with things until they are caught" is a rather weak excuse considering she was standing in the same area both days for rather long periods of time.
I think the point of the second issue is that this wasn't an issue for Duke Nukem Forever, which had a huge presence at PAX. Also "people get away with things until they are caught" is a rather weak excuse considering she was standing in the same area both days for rather long periods of time.
Unbelievable that Kieth Apacary was asked to leave. If I had the option to go to a sweet event like this it would be such a highlight to meet someone like Keith Apacary, or Jim Sterling, or Jonathan Holmes. I can't believe he got the boot... He is the life of the party.
Also that girl who is supposed to look like a video game character, and does look like it, but that is apparently bad? WTF!?
Also that girl who is supposed to look like a video game character, and does look like it, but that is apparently bad? WTF!?
Don't care if it's a "weak excuse". It's simple. The first day of any convention or show is going to be hectic. People are still figuring out last minute preparations, etc. The second day things are more orderly and things can be dealt with that weren't as major as making sure the show was running smoothly.
@Tristrix
Fair enough. I usually find booth babes embarrassing and lame too, because rarely are the conditions I mentioned met. In this case however, my conditions were met because I found the costume relevant enough and my impression of Jessica from earlier is that she knows her games and can probably talk about this game too.
@TheGreatEscape
I don't think it was irrelevant. It was about were the line goes whether a person is a cosplayer or a booth babe, if booth babes and provocative cosplayers are ok or not, and if pax is being hypocritical by allowing provocative cosplayers but not when they are defined as "booth babes". Things which are related to this situation.
Fair enough. I usually find booth babes embarrassing and lame too, because rarely are the conditions I mentioned met. In this case however, my conditions were met because I found the costume relevant enough and my impression of Jessica from earlier is that she knows her games and can probably talk about this game too.
@TheGreatEscape
I don't think it was irrelevant. It was about were the line goes whether a person is a cosplayer or a booth babe, if booth babes and provocative cosplayers are ok or not, and if pax is being hypocritical by allowing provocative cosplayers but not when they are defined as "booth babes". Things which are related to this situation.
I completely agree with any convention that bans Keith Apicary for whatever reason. Sounds like some dipshit actions on the cosplayer, though.
Claiming this is about protecting "children" is a bullshit excuse. There are rated M games openly presented at these cons. One year when Left 4 Dead was shown, the booth was decorated with zombies and gore. You should go into a con expecting 17+ material. If you're offended by an outfit that reveals LESS skin than a bikini, stay home.
Step 1: Boycott PAX because of this!
Step 2: Boycott E3 because of SOPA!
Step 3: Shit there are no more video game expos
Step 4: Why did we go to video game expos anyway, the only thing that happened there was a bunch of game devs delivering wooden speeches about halfway done games while being haunted by the specter of past public relations
Step 5: Video games are saved
Also, I cannot figure out how the outfit in the photo works. Is there some sort of underboob harness? That's dedication to the craft.
Step 2: Boycott E3 because of SOPA!
Step 3: Shit there are no more video game expos
Step 4: Why did we go to video game expos anyway, the only thing that happened there was a bunch of game devs delivering wooden speeches about halfway done games while being haunted by the specter of past public relations
Step 5: Video games are saved
Also, I cannot figure out how the outfit in the photo works. Is there some sort of underboob harness? That's dedication to the craft.
@arkane9
"Fair enough. I usually find booth babes embarrassing and lame too, because rarely are the conditions I mentioned met. In this case however, my conditions were met because I found the costume relevant enough and my impression of Jessica from earlier is that she knows her games and can probably talk about this game too."
I'd say you're probably right, and I did concede earlier that I have sympathy for the cosplayer vs booth babe argument. However, if we're going to take an anti-booth babe stance, and I think it's a good idea for them to do so, I don't think you get to sit around nitpicking about who qualifies as one and who doesn't. I mean, all I'd have to do to make your garden variety clueless booth babe somewhat savvy on the topic is have her watch a 3 minute trailer for the game she's selling and presto, now she's a knowledgeable cosplayer, right? In the strictest sense it has to count, ya know?
Thus we avoid all the pussyfooting around and splitting hairs by just lumping in sponsored cosplay and forbidding all of it, which I think is probably the best solution. It does unfortunately lead to situations like this, but I do think it's better than the alternative (E3).
"Fair enough. I usually find booth babes embarrassing and lame too, because rarely are the conditions I mentioned met. In this case however, my conditions were met because I found the costume relevant enough and my impression of Jessica from earlier is that she knows her games and can probably talk about this game too."
I'd say you're probably right, and I did concede earlier that I have sympathy for the cosplayer vs booth babe argument. However, if we're going to take an anti-booth babe stance, and I think it's a good idea for them to do so, I don't think you get to sit around nitpicking about who qualifies as one and who doesn't. I mean, all I'd have to do to make your garden variety clueless booth babe somewhat savvy on the topic is have her watch a 3 minute trailer for the game she's selling and presto, now she's a knowledgeable cosplayer, right? In the strictest sense it has to count, ya know?
Thus we avoid all the pussyfooting around and splitting hairs by just lumping in sponsored cosplay and forbidding all of it, which I think is probably the best solution. It does unfortunately lead to situations like this, but I do think it's better than the alternative (E3).
Apparently she just had to tone down the costume.
https://twitter.com/#!/OJessicaNigri/status/188986181235642369/photo/1
https://twitter.com/#!/OJessicaNigri/status/188986181235642369/photo/1
Apparently it wasn't even about cosplaying/boothbabes thing, because Nigri is going to pax day 3 with a different outfit that is less revealing, yet sill very much relevant to the game. So yeah it was just about the skin, probably just the tit area considering how pushed up they were and emphasized.
He was in his underwear? Dang, I hear he's surprisingly lean and well-toned under those dorky shirts.
@The Random One: There's a small plastic wire holing the underboob together.
Strange, it was the first thing I noticed. I was like "GOTTA FIX THIS LOGICAL FALLACY," before "OH GOD DA BOOBS."
Strange, it was the first thing I noticed. I was like "GOTTA FIX THIS LOGICAL FALLACY," before "OH GOD DA BOOBS."
This whole controversy could have been avoided had PAX a rule that simply states that no one, no matter what gender,age or build, can show anything more than bare arms or legs(up to the mid-thighs).
Guys dressed up like Vega from Street Fighter only add to the aura of man musk such conventions are already infamous for.
At least people cosplaying as Ratchet or Krystal have to be wearing costumes which simulate a furry epidermis, so it has the effect of characters not wearing much clothing yet the cosplayers don't show any actual skin.
Hmm. That gives me an idea. How about this: The men get to wear false female breasts as part of their costumes while women get to wear false male pectorals as part of theirs. Everybody wins.
Guys dressed up like Vega from Street Fighter only add to the aura of man musk such conventions are already infamous for.
At least people cosplaying as Ratchet or Krystal have to be wearing costumes which simulate a furry epidermis, so it has the effect of characters not wearing much clothing yet the cosplayers don't show any actual skin.
Hmm. That gives me an idea. How about this: The men get to wear false female breasts as part of their costumes while women get to wear false male pectorals as part of theirs. Everybody wins.
Reading these comments are great. Apparently, to most people, it's impossible to both love cosplaying and also be hired for it. Gotta tell this to Jenni Källberg next time I meet her, since Nintendo paid her to attend as Zelda at GAMEX 2011, I guess she's 'just a boothbabe' then. Unlike when she walked around as Samus, that was clearly just her being a great fan.
I don't know man, they are already letting video companies come in and use the convention to peddle upcoming games and give it that commercialized feel that they dislike about E3. The no booth babe part seems a little arbitrary with all that in mind, especially with the Duke Nukem display last year.
I'm not too concerned about Apicary, I'm sure Nathan is creative enough to come up with a new character to try out.
I'm not too concerned about Apicary, I'm sure Nathan is creative enough to come up with a new character to try out.
It's ridiculous how an organization known for "dickerdoodles" and drawing penises every chance they get can't stand cosplaying. Fuck 'em.
Here's a thought:
There are probably still a lot of paid cosplayers wandering around PAX.
...they are just not disclosing that they were paid to be there.
There are probably still a lot of paid cosplayers wandering around PAX.
...they are just not disclosing that they were paid to be there.
Regardless of right or wrong, I wonder if in a few years an upstart videogame web comic will come along, skewering the industry and eventually expanding to host a non-corporate "games first" gaming get-together and mini-convention to counter corporate juggernauts like E3 and PAX.
You know, like Penny Arcade originally did, before they became one of the corporate juggernauts that they used to skewer. Back when they played games for more than 5-10 minutes, and before they became "part of the problem".
You know, like Penny Arcade originally did, before they became one of the corporate juggernauts that they used to skewer. Back when they played games for more than 5-10 minutes, and before they became "part of the problem".
To those who find Keith "harmless": I've spoken to more than one annoyed industry member today who described some of his antics (for instance, throwing himself down a flight of stairs), and the first word that popped to mind was liability. Perhaps the organizers were taking that into consideration.
Well said Joecam! MAGFest would accept those beautiful breast with open hands..Arms! I mean open arms....but yeah MAGFest is a shit ton better than PAX
I always found it strange that a webcomic well known for its usage of rape, murder, pedophilia, bestiality, and foul language would be so stringent when it comes to the standards and practices of its convention. I mean surely these people who are taking their kids to PAX must know about Penny Arcade? I mean seriously people, these are the men who drew a wolf whom's every limb was comprised of a huge veiny cock. A girl can't show a little skin? But we're totally okay with huge advertisements of gory violence and skimpily-dressed virtual girls? A pretty confusing message they're trying to send if you ask me.
What a major buzz kill - definitely makes me think twice about supporting the show next year.
PAX is definitely an environment where you should be allowed to express yourself if it's not hurting anyone else. That girls outfit was no worse than anything else I saw other girls wearing at the show - no worse than any infant could catch on local cable.
Ridiculous.
Oh and the T-Shirts sucked major balls again for the second year in a row, how about you do something besides change the date you lazy fucking pricks.
PAX is definitely an environment where you should be allowed to express yourself if it's not hurting anyone else. That girls outfit was no worse than anything else I saw other girls wearing at the show - no worse than any infant could catch on local cable.
Ridiculous.
Oh and the T-Shirts sucked major balls again for the second year in a row, how about you do something besides change the date you lazy fucking pricks.
Okay, fine, that pink costume does seem a little questionable in a family conference, but not the juliet starling one.
What's wrong Jonathan, you mad that there's one less set of boobs you can't confuse for belonging to a guy at PAX?
I hope everyone is well aware that Keith Apacary is a character, created by actor Nathan Barnatt. He has no 'medical' condition, and is in complete control of his own actions. He probably knew he was going to get kicked out, but just didn't give a damn. As for booth babe vs hired cosplay, its a pretty moot point. They are both showing off their tits in order to market a videogame. The PAX organizers need a clear definition of what is an isn't acceptable for representatives of game companies to wear at their booth.
As others have said, its pretty ironic that a comic that often jokes about rape, pedophilia, and beastiality, is taking such a hard lined, puritan approach to their convention. Sure they want to sell more tickets, but honestly, something like that isn't a place you should bring young children any way.
As others have said, its pretty ironic that a comic that often jokes about rape, pedophilia, and beastiality, is taking such a hard lined, puritan approach to their convention. Sure they want to sell more tickets, but honestly, something like that isn't a place you should bring young children any way.
"Also I will add that though I've been really looking forward to Lollipop Chainsaw and all this cheese is amusing in the context of the game, getting her to wander around conventions and PR events with her tits hanging out is really, really pathetic and if anything quite insulting."
Hypocrisy is fun AND easy! When you know how! Tits are okay in games but not in real life now! Opinions!
Hypocrisy is fun AND easy! When you know how! Tits are okay in games but not in real life now! Opinions!
"It's not really a question of if he did it or not, it's the fact that PAX is taking this hard of a stance on a guy that has only worked to make every event he attends more worth attending."
Thats totally subjective. I like Kieth, and he seems like a cool guy even when not being "on point" but if his shenanigans aren't deemed to be benefiting the show, then I don't really think the guy has a defense. He's just someone causing a disturbance --specially if no one knew he was going to do this, and/or wasn't paying him to appear like this.
As for Nigri -- Was she there to promote Lollipop Chainsaw, or was just there as every other ticket buyer was? Cause if it was the former then I expect the crew at PAX East have a little explaining to do, since she was being paid to be the character, and the character very much looks like that.. Then again, with all the DLC costumes there are in the game, maybe they think she could have changed into one of those instead, and keep the integrity of looking like the character? Still, a lot to ask that the PAX crew should have screened before hand.. I mean.. They have SEEN promo stuff for Lollipop Chainsaw, right?
Thats totally subjective. I like Kieth, and he seems like a cool guy even when not being "on point" but if his shenanigans aren't deemed to be benefiting the show, then I don't really think the guy has a defense. He's just someone causing a disturbance --specially if no one knew he was going to do this, and/or wasn't paying him to appear like this.
As for Nigri -- Was she there to promote Lollipop Chainsaw, or was just there as every other ticket buyer was? Cause if it was the former then I expect the crew at PAX East have a little explaining to do, since she was being paid to be the character, and the character very much looks like that.. Then again, with all the DLC costumes there are in the game, maybe they think she could have changed into one of those instead, and keep the integrity of looking like the character? Still, a lot to ask that the PAX crew should have screened before hand.. I mean.. They have SEEN promo stuff for Lollipop Chainsaw, right?
@El Conrado
There were more scantily clad booth babes, and they weren't hiding it, they were standing at booths.
There were more scantily clad booth babes, and they weren't hiding it, they were standing at booths.
People bitching about double-standards and integrity and letting the games stand on their own and family-friendliness can fuck right off when half the people in attendance are dressing more whorish than both of them.
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