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Turn 10's Greenawalt: Racers shouldn't be so punishing photo

There's a reason why I tend to tell people I'm not big into simulation racing -- those two words instantly make me think of harsh, realistic gameplay that requires me to know a hell of a lot about cars to perform well. When I want to play a videogame to have fun, which is the case 95% of the time, sim racing doesn't come to mind.

Forza Motorsport 3 director Dan Greenawalt, while much more of a simulation fan than myself, tends to agree. In an interview with Gamasutra, he gave his thoughts on the matter.

"The hardcore fans of the racing sim genre," according to Greenawalt, "in particular, are constantly calling to be punished more. It sounds weird. It sounds like we're in some strange sadomasochistic relationship." On the subject of being able to rewind upon crashing or simply making a bad move, he says he "can't go back to games that don't have it now."

"It doesn't hurt the tension," explains Greenawalt. "I think part of this is just embracing modern game design and realizing that people are different and what they're looking for is great entertainment, and entertainment does not have to be punishing. It can be, and it has been, but it doesn't have to be."

Since the man practically took the words right out of my mouth, I don't really have anything to add. Do any of you ever find yourself enjoying the unforgiving nature or some racing games?








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10 comments | showing # 1 to 10
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Topher Cantler's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 18:35
Topher Cantler
I agree. After DiRT 2, I don't even want to bother with a racing game that doesn't have rewind. It's not a matter of not wanting a hardcore experience, it's a matter of not being 15 anymore and not having time to fuck with a game that expects you to redo 30 minutes of work when you make one mistake. I just don't have time for that.

There's no reason a game can't be challenging and also respect your time. Stuff like those 2-hour endurance races in Gran Turismo is just bullshit. The challenge should be in the racing itself, not in how long it takes you to do it.
mourning orange's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 18:37
mourning orange
I'll never use the rewind button, but I don't mind it being there
CaseyJones77's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 19:30
CaseyJones77
i'm a huge fan of simulation racing, but i have to admit i love the rewind button in dirt 2/grid/forza3 etc.

although i find myself not concentrating as much as i have done in the past..and as such making mistakes..its nice not to have wasted a few minutes just for a silly mistake. its a game after all.

i was one of the ones calling for more punishment...like in formula one games, but now i've used rewind, it'll be hard to not have it in other games.
dsky's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 20:02
dsky
PC Sims like iRacing.com and rFactor are about 100 times more realistic than the Forza series, sorry!
donkeykong's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 20:17
donkeykong
Straight up I'm gonna say it: I feel like the rewind feature makes me a better driver. If you fuck up a corner in a game without the feature, you keep on driving but you still don't know the right way to take the corner. you can guess again in a couple minutes, on the next lap. The rewind feature allows you to analyze the turn carefully. I find that in general for my own mistakes I'll only correct a given corner once. Once you learn the track the rewind is more likely just to save you from the AI pitting you or something equally lame. Repeating a course because you're an awful driver is one thing, repeating a course because some jackass is up in your shiz is downright annoying.
Jon B's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 21:34
Jon B
@Topher, I agree completely on the endurance part. Gran Turismo is fucking ridiculous with its "More laps = More Challenge" policy.

I mean, a championship where each race takes 2 hours to complete? That's not a test of your skill. That's just fucking ridiculous.

@Mourning Orange
Hopefully there'll be an option to turn it off with a big reward as a result. I'd suspect that's the case. I prefer to not have that backup there, makes races more intense, in my opinion, but I can certainly see why people want it.
Poopface Morty's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/25/2009 23:29
Poopface Morty
What Topher said. I'm really satisfied with the direction they've gone with Forza. If it weren't for those changes in accessibility, I wouldn't have bothered, but as someone who knows nothing on automobiles, I'm still going to pick the game up. The demo was fantastic.
Kasreyn's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/26/2009 05:01
Kasreyn
I agree on hourlong endurance racing, who has the time necessary for that? But using that as an example is not entirely fair. Why would you need rewind on shorter circuits? Here I think it disturbs the flow of the race.

I think there is excitement without rewind. Quickly try to get back on the track. You might have lost first place but keep fighting for second or third. Folks, this is what racing and life is all about? Sometimes you screw up but that doesn't mean you have lost. A clever game splits up events into several challenges and sums up the scores at the end. Rank high enough overall and you win.
DaedHead8's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/26/2009 12:51
DaedHead8
Ever since I first played Full Auto a few years ago, I've been yearning for a rewind feature in simulation racing games. It's ridiculous to expect me to nail 20 perfect turns per lap in a 10 lap race. Giving users the ability to correct mistakes is one of the golden rules of usability design, so I'm overjoyed that it's found it's way into proper racing games.
ShinigamiByrd's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/26/2009 17:35
ShinigamiByrd
GRID is a fine example of punishment. Most memorably getting to Le Mans for the first time. Brutal. That game pissed me off to no end. I will stick with Forza personally. Turn 10 has it right.
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