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I was thinking about this earlier. No one will make any money on FPS games IF they are CoD clones. Becuse why get a poor mans CoD when there is a new one out soon at any given time.
TF2 did well becuse its nothing like CoD yet still a competative shooter, give us some damn variation and we might start caring.
TF2 did well becuse its nothing like CoD yet still a competative shooter, give us some damn variation and we might start caring.
I have a suggestion. Make Timesplitters 4 and then we'll see how well FPS's outside Call of Duty sells.
No one buys them because the market is over saturated. For this industry to thrive I think developers need to get together. YES, they are all in the business to make money but I'm still trying to catch up from all the awesome 2011 games that were released...which I am doing now since releases are slowed.
Developers need to put aside some differences and talk, for the sake of the industry about unwritten agreements on releases. Could solve the problem of people buying used, great games not being bought at all (Resistance 3 for example) and many more if they just worked together on this a bit. Also the yearly release of franchises that aren't sports games isn't help either.
Developers need to put aside some differences and talk, for the sake of the industry about unwritten agreements on releases. Could solve the problem of people buying used, great games not being bought at all (Resistance 3 for example) and many more if they just worked together on this a bit. Also the yearly release of franchises that aren't sports games isn't help either.
@SephirothX - Both BF3 and SWTOR had massive marketing budgets EA spent on them, leading to lay off... er... "restructuring" of various divisions. The cuts were probably mild to DICE and Bioware, but the doofuses up top expected BF3 and SWTOR to recoup what EA overspent on advertising and marketing.
Stupidity of the publisher is why developers and gamers can't have nice things.
Stupidity of the publisher is why developers and gamers can't have nice things.
Yeah, when Left for Dead first released (back before every game was a zombie game) and when it tried this weird online co-op thing - it was a total loser. FPS games can be different and can make money.
It's too bad some publisher won't take a chance on Timesplitters 4... we needs some "fun factor" back in our FPS games. :(
It's too bad some publisher won't take a chance on Timesplitters 4... we needs some "fun factor" back in our FPS games. :(
f*** him and f*** crysis... f***in dude in a rubber muscle chicken suit.. can't they atleast do TS 2 & 3 in a HD collection? Im sure TS4 would sell more then their crysis games.. Crytek makes me cry.
I'd endure an online pass, or any other kind of DRM if it meant I could play TimeSplitters 4. I'd even pay 20$ if they brought the older ones to the Xbox arcade.
Back in the day, it was the reason I bought a PS2.
Back in the day, it was the reason I bought a PS2.
@SephirothX
Because out of the 100's of FPS's made this generation, only a few sell that number. Many don't sell in the millions, and while that doesn't mean they sold bad, it does mean that many of them did not recoup their development costs. Which is sad.
Because out of the 100's of FPS's made this generation, only a few sell that number. Many don't sell in the millions, and while that doesn't mean they sold bad, it does mean that many of them did not recoup their development costs. Which is sad.
@Sephiroth - It's all context. If it made 40mill in sales and cost 35 mill to make(or whatever), that's ok, once the legions of people that make it all get their money, then a profit on top. It's all about the numbers. And like it or not, there is clear data which flies completely in the face of the gaming communities claims that we buy new games.
Turns out, most people that buy games these days are not the gaming enthusiasts that we are.
Also Jim, companies aren't trying new things because trying new things costs people careers. I'm just playing devils advocate here, but would you put the jobs of yourself and your entire team, not to mention vast sums of YOUR money on a risky venture selling however many hundreds of thousands you'd need to sell, just to not have to go bankrupt anyway?
Why do you think the indie/arcade scenes are blowing up while the AAA market is growing stagnant?
Turns out, most people that buy games these days are not the gaming enthusiasts that we are.
Also Jim, companies aren't trying new things because trying new things costs people careers. I'm just playing devils advocate here, but would you put the jobs of yourself and your entire team, not to mention vast sums of YOUR money on a risky venture selling however many hundreds of thousands you'd need to sell, just to not have to go bankrupt anyway?
Why do you think the indie/arcade scenes are blowing up while the AAA market is growing stagnant?
He's absolutely right. No one's making FPSes these days. Like 343 with Halo 4, or Irrational Games with BioShock Infinite (which doesn't look like it has any quirky elements to it).
Saying FPSes don't make money is like saying Superhero films don't make money. Yeah, some of them don't do well (like Green Lantern), but others are bonefide hits with the right people behind them (like The Avengers is turning out to be).
Saying FPSes don't make money is like saying Superhero films don't make money. Yeah, some of them don't do well (like Green Lantern), but others are bonefide hits with the right people behind them (like The Avengers is turning out to be).
Borderlands? Bioshock? Half-Life? Left 4 Dead? Far Cry? Hell, even Brink sold well enough for a sequel. Crysis 2 was an OK game but the multiplayer sucked and the level design was mediocre.
Ugh... this industry has become too self aware.
I long for the days where passion and faith in ones ideas prevailed over genre definitions and "video game analysts".
I long for the days where passion and faith in ones ideas prevailed over genre definitions and "video game analysts".
"Nobody really buys any FPSes unless they’re called Call Of Duty,"
Meanwhile, elsewhere on Destructoid, we have a thread full of people who want Half Life 3.
Meanwhile, elsewhere on Destructoid, we have a thread full of people who want Half Life 3.
@Gorog - You do know you're pointing to enourmous and established franchises right? Doesn't really do your point any justice dude.
Also, back to being a bit less level headed and a bit more me - Timesplitters was a MAJOR PS2 franchise long before shooters were all over the fucking place. I remember a day when Timesplitters was king and COD was a weird bunch of boring looking WW2 shooters that not many people took an awful lot of notice of... It's a funny old world...
Also, back to being a bit less level headed and a bit more me - Timesplitters was a MAJOR PS2 franchise long before shooters were all over the fucking place. I remember a day when Timesplitters was king and COD was a weird bunch of boring looking WW2 shooters that not many people took an awful lot of notice of... It's a funny old world...
Finally, an excuse to post Gold Skeletor:
.
Also, remember Medal of Honor 2010? That game that no one really talked about? It sold 5 million copies. Established franchise or not, that's still more than "COD or Battlefield". Homefront shipped a modest 2.4 million copies, and sold over 1m.
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Also, remember Medal of Honor 2010? That game that no one really talked about? It sold 5 million copies. Established franchise or not, that's still more than "COD or Battlefield". Homefront shipped a modest 2.4 million copies, and sold over 1m.
Sorry to hear that publishers think we can only handle CoD clones, yet said clones don't make the money they expect them to make.....
Also there are examples of succesfull FPS games that aren't CoD clones.
My 6 year old cousin could make a wonderfull observation out of these.
Also there are examples of succesfull FPS games that aren't CoD clones.
My 6 year old cousin could make a wonderfull observation out of these.
Why don't companies do the smart thing and rerelease their old titles in dormant series on PSN and XBLA to act as gauges for player interest/funding campaigns?
I loved Timesplitters 2. It was my favorite multiplayer game for quite a while (when I had a Gamecube), but missed out on 3. I'd pay $10-15 for a an HD online-enabled edition.
Use those sales to garner interest and support for dormant series and get an ACTUAL estimate of potential success instead of spouting off drivel like this. There are plenty of FPS games out there that sell extremely well PRECISELY because they are not CoD (many have been mentioned before me).
I don't think the problem is lack of fan interest or "not being enough like CoD." Maybe the problem is that the pitch for the idea was poor (who knows?). Come up with something groundbreaking and refreshing again and a publisher will jump on it. Let's get this shit made.
I loved Timesplitters 2. It was my favorite multiplayer game for quite a while (when I had a Gamecube), but missed out on 3. I'd pay $10-15 for a an HD online-enabled edition.
Use those sales to garner interest and support for dormant series and get an ACTUAL estimate of potential success instead of spouting off drivel like this. There are plenty of FPS games out there that sell extremely well PRECISELY because they are not CoD (many have been mentioned before me).
I don't think the problem is lack of fan interest or "not being enough like CoD." Maybe the problem is that the pitch for the idea was poor (who knows?). Come up with something groundbreaking and refreshing again and a publisher will jump on it. Let's get this shit made.
Selling a lot of copies =/= success. If you spend make $100 million and spend 300 on development and advertisement, you've just lost a serious amount of change.
Crysis sold 2-3 million copies. I find it hard to believe that's not enough to recoup its dev costs. If not, and I'm no developer, aren't you doing something wrong?
Loved Timesplitters 3.
@mighty_marcos
Not FPS, FPPP (First person puzzle-platformer) :p
Loved Timesplitters 3.
@mighty_marcos
Not FPS, FPPP (First person puzzle-platformer) :p
Hey, why don't we also talk about how FRD was completely done with Battlefront 3, and working on Battlefront 4, when a change in guard at LucasArts canned them both because they didn't want to invest the money necessary to advertise a couple of Star Wars games?
Or how FRD was approached by Activision to do a new Goldeneye game, fairly cool considering they were a large part of the team that made the first, only to have the rug pulled out from them?
Anyone whose a fan of these guys owes it to themselves to read this article on the collapse of FRD. There is a ton of fucking depressing shit in there, pretty much solidified my view that the largest threat to gaming today are the large publishers at the top of the mountain.
Or how FRD was approached by Activision to do a new Goldeneye game, fairly cool considering they were a large part of the team that made the first, only to have the rug pulled out from them?
Anyone whose a fan of these guys owes it to themselves to read this article on the collapse of FRD. There is a ton of fucking depressing shit in there, pretty much solidified my view that the largest threat to gaming today are the large publishers at the top of the mountain.
I own and have played more of the TimeSplitters series, than I have of the call of duty series.
Actually, I have yet to own any call of duty game.
Actually, I have yet to own any call of duty game.
Hey here's an idea: how about making games with a smaller budget? Of course Crysis 2 didn't meet it's development costs: the game needed a computer built by God to run it on normal settings. With such huge costs, how are you planning on recouping those costs? The Timesplitters games had a very unique art style to them, a new one does NOT need the hyper advanced graphics of the Cry Engine, just make it for cheap and market the hell out of it. People have been crying out for another entry for years, might as well go with it
L2budgetmoney. It seems like most shooters sell a significant amount yet developers are still posting losses? I feel like they should prep themselves for realistic sales instead of CoD numbers. I mean...I know they just localize, but Atlus usually sell well under 100k and seem content with that...remember how happy they were when Catherine broke 200k?
I guess what he's saying, and he's mostly right, but seriously, his Battlefield and Crysis comment just made him sound hyperbolic and maybe slightly bitter. BF3 sold over 10 million copies in the first month, how's that just "okay"?
His Crysis 2 comment, though, really take the hyperbole cake. One year ago it was announced it sold had sold 3 million copies. Crysis 1 sold over a million and Crytek said it didn't lose money on it. Crysis 2 uses pretty much the same engine and sold 3 times as much. How the hell is that "not even close to recouping development costs?
His Crysis 2 comment, though, really take the hyperbole cake. One year ago it was announced it sold had sold 3 million copies. Crysis 1 sold over a million and Crytek said it didn't lose money on it. Crysis 2 uses pretty much the same engine and sold 3 times as much. How the hell is that "not even close to recouping development costs?
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