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Dude seriously this fucking online pass system blows when I gamefly games and if I want to play them online I have to spend 10 bucks to do so go fuck yourselves.
"....that combats used sales..."
Is it a fight against pre-owned games? Or a way to recover some of the profit lost on a pre-owned game?
Not being petty or semantic there but it's a pretty big distinction to clarify and the way it's phrased in the article just begs for a million people to post unnecessary, angry comments with little to no thought dispensed.
Is it a fight against pre-owned games? Or a way to recover some of the profit lost on a pre-owned game?
Not being petty or semantic there but it's a pretty big distinction to clarify and the way it's phrased in the article just begs for a million people to post unnecessary, angry comments with little to no thought dispensed.
Give the first purchaser free shit, DLC, armour, guns, maps, different modes on the same maps, whatever.
Just don't take shit away from the used buyer, important shit, like online.
Just don't take shit away from the used buyer, important shit, like online.
Wait, THQ is doing that thing too? Wow. That's a slap in the face. That model is terrible. It just doesn't make any sense. It punishes you for not having the bones to buy new.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: For an industry whose target audience is the 20-something year old male, someone who most likely is schooling full-time or trying to make his way for the first time in his life, there's a huge investment demand asked of the average gamer in order to partake. Now we're going to start punishing people who've found a cheap copy secondhand? That's bullshit.
Used games help a developer and publisher more than they hurt. With this model publishers are just taking advantage of a weak ass argument to exploit their customers.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: For an industry whose target audience is the 20-something year old male, someone who most likely is schooling full-time or trying to make his way for the first time in his life, there's a huge investment demand asked of the average gamer in order to partake. Now we're going to start punishing people who've found a cheap copy secondhand? That's bullshit.
Used games help a developer and publisher more than they hurt. With this model publishers are just taking advantage of a weak ass argument to exploit their customers.
I wonder when these games companies are going to realise that locking content away from second-hand buyers and tying up important content in DLC pretty much guarantees that your game will not be cherished in the long-term, unlike classic games from our childhoods.
I don't trade in many games myself, but I can certainly see the importance of that wing of the industry. I traded in a few titles that I either owned on another system or were games that I considered absolute crap, an ended up being able to get DA2 for free. (Screw the haters, I love it!)
The online pass not only hurts used games but also rentals, which many people I know use to decide if there going to spend $60 on a game. And if they can't play the online on a game that has a 3 hour campaign, I don't think they'd be justified in picking it up.
The online pass not only hurts used games but also rentals, which many people I know use to decide if there going to spend $60 on a game. And if they can't play the online on a game that has a 3 hour campaign, I don't think they'd be justified in picking it up.
I don't trade in many games myself, but I can certainly see the importance of that wing of the industry. I traded in a few titles that I either owned on another system or were games that I considered absolute crap, an ended up being able to get DA2 for free. (Screw the haters, I love it!)
The online pass not only hurts used games but also rentals, which many people I know use to decide if there going to spend $60 on a game. And if they can't play the online on a game that has a 3 hour campaign, I don't think they'd be justified in picking it up.
The online pass not only hurts used games but also rentals, which many people I know use to decide if there going to spend $60 on a game. And if they can't play the online on a game that has a 3 hour campaign, I don't think they'd be justified in picking it up.
I've made a promise to myself never to pay full up money for a game again ('cept pokemon black that is). I do like to buy my games new however. All it means for me is a longer wait on the new releases until they see a drop at retail.
@Koryu
Zing. Couldn't have said it better myself - WWE, UFC...all redneck-y games to begin with. They'll be flipped for the newest FPS in a heartbeat, just as they always are.
Developers/publishers who take this sort of action against people trying to save a buck are only screwing themselves - as soon as people know they've got to put in a single-use key to play online, it nerfs not only your used sales, but your new sales as well. The only thing I've ever seen that used this kind of strategy well was ME2's Cerberus Network, and that wasn't required to get 100% of a game's promised functionality, just additional content.
Sell me maps, sell me costumes, sell me whatever you want to, but taking away the ability to play online is like taking a drink away from a meal - it just leaves you missing something important. You can finish eating just fine, but it will be an uncomfortable experience, and not likely to draw in repeat clients, you dig?
Zing. Couldn't have said it better myself - WWE, UFC...all redneck-y games to begin with. They'll be flipped for the newest FPS in a heartbeat, just as they always are.
Developers/publishers who take this sort of action against people trying to save a buck are only screwing themselves - as soon as people know they've got to put in a single-use key to play online, it nerfs not only your used sales, but your new sales as well. The only thing I've ever seen that used this kind of strategy well was ME2's Cerberus Network, and that wasn't required to get 100% of a game's promised functionality, just additional content.
Sell me maps, sell me costumes, sell me whatever you want to, but taking away the ability to play online is like taking a drink away from a meal - it just leaves you missing something important. You can finish eating just fine, but it will be an uncomfortable experience, and not likely to draw in repeat clients, you dig?
@bakewell
I think what Jim is getting at and has said before is that there isn't really a profit loss when a person buys a preowned game.
@Sexualchocolate
Doesn't it work the same way if you just say they are giving you online play?
Also some may think maps are "important shit".
I think what Jim is getting at and has said before is that there isn't really a profit loss when a person buys a preowned game.
@Sexualchocolate
Doesn't it work the same way if you just say they are giving you online play?
Also some may think maps are "important shit".
Part of my take on that is if I am buying your game primarily for the online play (which I wouldn't unless it was an online only game) you have already failed at game design and odds are I wouldn't be purchasing your game period let alone used.
I could understand and companies would have a warrant to bitch about used game sales if they continued to endlessly publish games from launch until the end of time. Unfortunately they don't, they support them for as long as they deem them profitable and then drop all support like a hot-potato around the time they lay off the developers and buy a new corporate jet.
I could understand and companies would have a warrant to bitch about used game sales if they continued to endlessly publish games from launch until the end of time. Unfortunately they don't, they support them for as long as they deem them profitable and then drop all support like a hot-potato around the time they lay off the developers and buy a new corporate jet.
Bakewell: Whatever reason they state for PR purposes, it makes used games less attractive, less valuable and, ultimately, a less viable option for the consumer. So it is a pretty strong attack on used sales.
And the recuperating lost profit angle simply does not work. This isn't piracy, where a game has been obtained without a sale. This is a copy that was already bought and paid for, with a consumer exercising one's right to re-sell the physical property after use.
Publishers have grown very rich thanks to capitalism, but cry "unfair" when those very same capitalistic methods cut them out of extra cash. Sorry, but that's the ruthless world of business -- a world that they have enjoyed very much.
And the recuperating lost profit angle simply does not work. This isn't piracy, where a game has been obtained without a sale. This is a copy that was already bought and paid for, with a consumer exercising one's right to re-sell the physical property after use.
Publishers have grown very rich thanks to capitalism, but cry "unfair" when those very same capitalistic methods cut them out of extra cash. Sorry, but that's the ruthless world of business -- a world that they have enjoyed very much.
Ive gamed this out some, and I actually think that the whole crusade against used could be good for gamers. However, these 10 dollar passes HAVE to be combined with price cuts on new games to really be effective. Sadly, I don't think that will happen...
@jim
No need to apologise for something that is beyond our control and something that i understand well enough.
My point was to clarify whether they are battling second hand sales or just trying to obtain more money FROM a second hand sale because there is a massive difference in the distinction of those 2 actions.
No need to apologise for something that is beyond our control and something that i understand well enough.
My point was to clarify whether they are battling second hand sales or just trying to obtain more money FROM a second hand sale because there is a massive difference in the distinction of those 2 actions.
@killias2
Or they could just release quality games that people enjoy, that way they don't trade them in and there is one less used game transaction. That would be good for gamers.
Honestly if your game has a 1week turnaround from purchase to resale, your doing something wrong. I don't know about most people but when I buy a game I do my research and I don't intend to ever trade it in. Usually when I buy a used game its because there is either no other way to get the game any longer or there is a bitchen' B1G1 or X%OFF sale going on.
But its easier to release the same standard of games with some restriction tossed on it to make used sales less palatable. I guess that is good for gamers too, it tells me what games I don't need to bother looking twice at before I take another game up to the register :)
Or they could just release quality games that people enjoy, that way they don't trade them in and there is one less used game transaction. That would be good for gamers.
Honestly if your game has a 1week turnaround from purchase to resale, your doing something wrong. I don't know about most people but when I buy a game I do my research and I don't intend to ever trade it in. Usually when I buy a used game its because there is either no other way to get the game any longer or there is a bitchen' B1G1 or X%OFF sale going on.
But its easier to release the same standard of games with some restriction tossed on it to make used sales less palatable. I guess that is good for gamers too, it tells me what games I don't need to bother looking twice at before I take another game up to the register :)
@Jim
"Publishers have grown very rich thanks to capitalism, but cry "unfair" when those very same capitalistic methods cut them out of extra cash. "
Goose and gander.
Pot and kettle.
Great and point.
"Publishers have grown very rich thanks to capitalism, but cry "unfair" when those very same capitalistic methods cut them out of extra cash. "
Goose and gander.
Pot and kettle.
Great and point.
I always buy new and never trade anything in. judging from other posts i'm in the minority. And probably didn't need to post anything
@Bakewell
It is both.
They are battling second hand sales by making them look less attractive for the purpose of getting the public to buy the new version.
also
They are putting in a secondary purchase for those to buy used to obtain more money.
It is both.
They are battling second hand sales by making them look less attractive for the purpose of getting the public to buy the new version.
also
They are putting in a secondary purchase for those to buy used to obtain more money.
A crucial cog for Gamestop. An annoyance for everyone else, including consumers who don't want to buy used games.
The online pass system sucks. Really, if they are interested in keeping their gamers playing the game then make the game interesting. And also don't have to make it feel like you are committing a crime if you buy a used game. I mean to buy a triple A title used you are only paying possibly 5 to 10 dollars less at places like Gamestop/EB games, so why would the used game buyer spend more than they wanted to on a new game when also purchasing a key to unlock online gaming? The online pass would suck for games like HALO franchise and Call of Duty. Those two games are keeping the game interesting by their DLC that is for sure. But DLC is another issue I have and for a different subject, but I think the sooner pay to play online is gone, the better.
Everybody wants to complain about Gamestop, but does anybody remember when Death Smiles came out there was at least 2 or 3 boxes in every store. They are supporting companies with the money they milk from used sales. Seriously, Death Smiles had that much support when the game is as Niche as you can get.
I don't like a lot of other things about GS, but at least they are helping this market.
I don't like a lot of other things about GS, but at least they are helping this market.
FUCK EA'S ONLINE PASS. Borrowed my friend's copy of Bulletstorm, wanted to play online? SHIT OUT OF LUCK. Picked it up at Gamestop, employee tried to sell me a used copy of the game, I informed him about the online pass. Hey guy, want to sell that used game? SHIT OUT OF LUCK. It would have cost me more to buy the game used + stupid online pass than to just get a new copy and not deal with the hassle. But I guess that's what they want, they want to make less sales and punish consumers.
Also, guy at Gamestop gave me extra Gears 3 beta code for friend and a Duke Nukem beta code, so props to him. Also, the header is fucking hilarious.
@ElektroDragon
Here's the thing: Gamestop is in existence because of its ability to profit from used games - and they are also the #1 speciality store chain in the United States when it comes to games and accessories. Publishers would do well to stand behind the used game market in some respect, as it keeps the storefronts that market the fuck out of their new product through preorders and (ironically enough) trade-in bonuses in business. It extends their reach, and while they may not like their side-bonus potential, they damn sure appreciate their marketing clout when there's something new to get out there.
Scoff at it all you want, but it's as vital to the business ecosystem as you could ever imagine.
Here's the thing: Gamestop is in existence because of its ability to profit from used games - and they are also the #1 speciality store chain in the United States when it comes to games and accessories. Publishers would do well to stand behind the used game market in some respect, as it keeps the storefronts that market the fuck out of their new product through preorders and (ironically enough) trade-in bonuses in business. It extends their reach, and while they may not like their side-bonus potential, they damn sure appreciate their marketing clout when there's something new to get out there.
Scoff at it all you want, but it's as vital to the business ecosystem as you could ever imagine.
Back in my younger days I bought more used stuff and traded more stuff in or sold it on eBay 'cause I was flat broke and in debt. These days I'm living more comfortably and out of debt so I buy everything new and haven't traded anything in this entire console generation.
It's not about getting past level five - it's about paying for the privilege of playing online, something that a console online service allows you to do in the first place. Where additional content keys for purchasing new is incentive to do so, nerfing your product's advertised functionality is unacceptable, and a very douchey way to get back at both the secondhand retailer as well as the more frugal consumer.
The pre-owned market is clearly a good thing. I rely upon it heavily and wouldn't function as a person if it was to collapse. However, the way the pre-owned market operates - in Britain at least - is really pretty unfair. Absolutely nothing goes towards the people who worked on the game; the people who are truly deserving of my money. This means that many developers are coming up with ways to get a bit of well-deserved money for their efforts. And I, for one, can't blame them, even if I'm not willing to pay.
@FKinthecoffee
This is why DLC is often a good thing. If they have extra content at the ready that they directly profit from, they win in the end, even if they win a smaller amount.
This is why DLC is often a good thing. If they have extra content at the ready that they directly profit from, they win in the end, even if they win a smaller amount.
I'll support an online pass system if they reduce the price of retail games and/or give new copy owners something free, like DLC. The online pass system as it is now will do nothing but hurt the pre-owned market, or kill online play. It's hard enough to play a multiplayer game beyond the latest blockbuster (CoD, Halo, Killzone, etc) after a few weeks. The player base already has a hard time not drying up, no need to hinder it further.
@Commandant Oreo
Wow you...have no clue what you're talking about do you?
What these keys do is they allow people who buy new games to play online right out of the box. However for people who can't afford that and who buy used games it forces them to purchase a $10 "key" to access any online content. It keeps part of the game from you, for some a pretty big part of the game because you didn't buy it brand new. No online multiplayer, in some cases no DLC. You bought the product and they're telling you you can't have part of it.
You you get what you pay for, right? Well what you paid for is a full game. Nevermind how you paid for it, nor ehow much you paid for it, whatever you paid you paid for a full game. For anyone to say you are not allowed to the entirety of the product you bought, based by the way on very bullshitty grounds that you essentially don't deserve it, is completely fucking wrong.
That's like saying you can buy this used car, which is almost as good as new and has all the features inside it working at peak condition, however becase you bought it new we're gonna gut the AC system, tear the seats up, wear down the tires, and put about few thousand miles on it for good measure. You can still drive the car but it's definitely not the car you paid for. You paid the used price for a used car with all the features intact however because you bought used those features are fucked. Not because the features in the car were fucked to begin with.
Of course you can always pay the $10,000 on top of what you paid for on the car to get it all fixed up.
Wow you...have no clue what you're talking about do you?
What these keys do is they allow people who buy new games to play online right out of the box. However for people who can't afford that and who buy used games it forces them to purchase a $10 "key" to access any online content. It keeps part of the game from you, for some a pretty big part of the game because you didn't buy it brand new. No online multiplayer, in some cases no DLC. You bought the product and they're telling you you can't have part of it.
You you get what you pay for, right? Well what you paid for is a full game. Nevermind how you paid for it, nor ehow much you paid for it, whatever you paid you paid for a full game. For anyone to say you are not allowed to the entirety of the product you bought, based by the way on very bullshitty grounds that you essentially don't deserve it, is completely fucking wrong.
That's like saying you can buy this used car, which is almost as good as new and has all the features inside it working at peak condition, however becase you bought it new we're gonna gut the AC system, tear the seats up, wear down the tires, and put about few thousand miles on it for good measure. You can still drive the car but it's definitely not the car you paid for. You paid the used price for a used car with all the features intact however because you bought used those features are fucked. Not because the features in the car were fucked to begin with.
Of course you can always pay the $10,000 on top of what you paid for on the car to get it all fixed up.
This actually makes sense. A new game is $60 a used copy in the first 6 months is $55 add $10 for online and it's cheaper to buy new.
The real qiestion here is does THQ really believe any of their games are even worth playing online?
The real qiestion here is does THQ really believe any of their games are even worth playing online?
The thing is this: in order to buy it used, someone had to have bought it as a new product first. Nobody's losing money here, except a publisher that wishes to see used copies of their titles erased from the equation entirely. The reason why you can find used copies of any game so soon after release speaks more to the level of quality inherent in the title in the first place - a very solid game probably wouldn't be so easy to find used until much later on, at which point a new sale would be a moot point from a rational standpoint, because who wouldn't want to save ten bucks a few months after product launch? At that point, there's still downloadable content likely being offered (if not even more in development or nearing release), so the publisher and developer still stand to make money off of a game that directly profited them in the first place, even if the second sale did nothing for them.
Why a company would want to throw a monkey wrench into a system that already benefits so many angles is beyond me. It's not perfect, but then again, nothing ever is. As good as it gets is good enough for now, don't go fucking with things that aren't that broken. I doubt you make the percieved problems any better.
Why a company would want to throw a monkey wrench into a system that already benefits so many angles is beyond me. It's not perfect, but then again, nothing ever is. As good as it gets is good enough for now, don't go fucking with things that aren't that broken. I doubt you make the percieved problems any better.
@Everyday Legend
The reason you see used games on the opening week is due highly to theft.*
Steal a new game, trade it in for cash, pay rent.
The reason you see used games on the opening week is due highly to theft.*
Steal a new game, trade it in for cash, pay rent.
Most game boxes on sales floors are empty, behind glass cases or packaged in elaborate plastic chastity belts with magnetic alarm triggers.
Get your stats straight.
Get your stats straight.
lol @ WWE/UFC being considered "Rednecky". It's all my "thug nigga" friends who buy those games and start clans and shit for them. Out of that group, I'm the only white "sorta-redneck" type and I can't stand those games. Give me Def Jam Fight For NY online please.
You are very naive to think this:
"Most game boxes on sales floors are empty, behind glass cases or packaged in elaborate plastic chastity belts with magnetic alarm triggers."
:means its hard to steal.
"Most game boxes on sales floors are empty, behind glass cases or packaged in elaborate plastic chastity belts with magnetic alarm triggers."
:means its hard to steal.
hey how about this. publishers just start dropping the prices of new games a little bit faster or more often (even if its by smaller increments). I am willing to guess that most of the money that a video game makes, or at least enough to determine if it is a success or not, is made within the first 6 weeks the game is out. why not after the first few months start lowering the price of the game a little bit just to keep up with used prices. if the new game price is close enough to the used game price, why would someone buy used? i mean used game prices dont really drop that much in the first year, you might be able to pick up a game for 10 bucks less than the new copy. so its not like they would be dropping the price too much and they would have already made most of the money that they are going to make off that game.
instead of taking value away form the consumer, why not give more value to the consumer, weither that is by better longer games, free/paid dlc, or price drops. makes sense to me.
instead of taking value away form the consumer, why not give more value to the consumer, weither that is by better longer games, free/paid dlc, or price drops. makes sense to me.
I can understand an online pass thing to pay for something like dedicated servers in theory - in practice though most dedicated server games on the consoles aren't much better.
Of course they don't want to kill the used market. They just want a piece of it, now that they've found a potential way to horn in on it without doing anything.
Luckily, what I've found with games that have these silly online pass systems is that people who want to resell the game are now skipping out on multiplayer entirely because they know blowing that online pass just to dabble in a mediocre multiplayer devalues their product.
The best part: having an intact online pass doesn't increase the value of a used game, but not having one does lead to a nice price drop.
Luckily, what I've found with games that have these silly online pass systems is that people who want to resell the game are now skipping out on multiplayer entirely because they know blowing that online pass just to dabble in a mediocre multiplayer devalues their product.
The best part: having an intact online pass doesn't increase the value of a used game, but not having one does lead to a nice price drop.
I'm not naïve at all. I worked in videogame retail for close to a decade in no less than five different stores for three different companies. I know that side of the business from a shitload of firsthand experience.
Say I got a hundred copies of a UFC title traded in. Three of those would be stolen, and all one hundred would have driver's license information taken to complete the trade. Also, a game wouldn't net that much in cash value - while a system would do so much more, and would be more likely for thieves to attempt to resell rather than a new game, as the cash value would not begin to cover rent in the first place, and most assuredly not able to fund a sack of whatever you use to get lifted.
So, yeah. Experience in multiple instances. It makes for a good litmus.
Say I got a hundred copies of a UFC title traded in. Three of those would be stolen, and all one hundred would have driver's license information taken to complete the trade. Also, a game wouldn't net that much in cash value - while a system would do so much more, and would be more likely for thieves to attempt to resell rather than a new game, as the cash value would not begin to cover rent in the first place, and most assuredly not able to fund a sack of whatever you use to get lifted.
So, yeah. Experience in multiple instances. It makes for a good litmus.
I feel all games should be locked to your account like Steam. It is going to happen by the next Gen of console so get used to it. Used game sales are just as bad as pirating. Read the contract most game stay you cannot resell it.
We are talking about early trade ins and yes i have the same experience almost to the year. And yes you turn in your license but who cares there are no serial numbers on games vs systems which do have a way to track them.
How was your stores shrink? What was the allotted volume your 5 store gave for loss? Theft is there and yes it happened in the stores you worked in. They even admit it by the numbers I am asking for.
20$ is a lot of money if you have none.
How was your stores shrink? What was the allotted volume your 5 store gave for loss? Theft is there and yes it happened in the stores you worked in. They even admit it by the numbers I am asking for.
20$ is a lot of money if you have none.
@PalinRMA
At that point, it will move to an all digidistro system, and as likely as that seems as an eventuality, I doubt the next generation of consoles will eschew physical media. Too many people love to physically own their games - and I count myself among that crowd.
At that point, it will move to an all digidistro system, and as likely as that seems as an eventuality, I doubt the next generation of consoles will eschew physical media. Too many people love to physically own their games - and I count myself among that crowd.
I feel this is aimed at Gamestop, and their selling used games a mere $5 cheaper.
When this happens, this will instead inspire the buyer to just go with the game new, since you get in a format where it was never touched, get the pass to go online. Instead of getting the game incomplete, and paying to get the rest of the game.
In NYC btw, buying the game new, is about $65 with tax, and a used game selling at $55 assuming one has an edge card. If you buy the online pass, then you will end up paying the same.
I often compare the new/used price of a game, and if it's only a $5 diff, I would just go with the new copy.
When this happens, this will instead inspire the buyer to just go with the game new, since you get in a format where it was never touched, get the pass to go online. Instead of getting the game incomplete, and paying to get the rest of the game.
In NYC btw, buying the game new, is about $65 with tax, and a used game selling at $55 assuming one has an edge card. If you buy the online pass, then you will end up paying the same.
I often compare the new/used price of a game, and if it's only a $5 diff, I would just go with the new copy.
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