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I have two playthoughs. One I consider canon, to me, and the other a "What if."
I'm my Canonical run I try to do the right thing, even if the end result is worse than before.
I'm my Canonical run I try to do the right thing, even if the end result is worse than before.
My guess is that most people just don't want to potentially ruin their game or risk being punished for doing something "wrong".
I just completed Starved for Help two days ago. I didn't take the food and I usually try to do the right thing. (even though ironically, I killed both of the brothers)
@tmak94
Definitely. I had already disappointed her a couple times throughout the episode, I wasn't about to do it again.
Definitely. I had already disappointed her a couple times throughout the episode, I wasn't about to do it again.
The options are all pretty grey, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' and when I hear telltale talk about it in those terms, it bothers me.
Also some of the decisions are only really made clear once you complete the episode. For instance... SPOILERS!
When you can chop the guys leg at the start of the episode, if you think about it logically, chopping a dudes leg off, especially with an axe that you just killed a zombie with (infection risk?) should not be the first choice. I tried everything I could to not chop his leg, knowing that if I did he would likely turn on me or at the very least be down a leg. So I didn't intentionally leave him behind, I just refused to axe an innocent man with a nasty axe. But the way the choice is phrased in the video makes it seem like that was a 'bad' decision or something. Kind of annoying.
When you can chop the guys leg at the start of the episode, if you think about it logically, chopping a dudes leg off, especially with an axe that you just killed a zombie with (infection risk?) should not be the first choice. I tried everything I could to not chop his leg, knowing that if I did he would likely turn on me or at the very least be down a leg. So I didn't intentionally leave him behind, I just refused to axe an innocent man with a nasty axe. But the way the choice is phrased in the video makes it seem like that was a 'bad' decision or something. Kind of annoying.
The most interesting thing I find - which I did as well - is that most people killed Danny but not Andy...
Clemmie is precious to me and I'll do whatever I can to protect her, even when it means doing terrible things in front of her. My Lee would kill for her for the same reasons I'd die for her.
She deserves better than the savage world she's thrown in to.
She deserves better than the savage world she's thrown in to.
I try and do the "right" thing. A lot of the time though I have something different in mind than the game does. Like that food choice, I didn't want to take it but I didn't want to leave it either--I was hoping to be able to wait around to see if the people it belonged to came back.
@Nathaniel607
I did the same. For me it was Danny was clearly batshit crazy, who had killed people before without much pause and would almost certainly do so again.
With Andy, he was a broken man, and I was already forced to kill the other two members of the family and he was no longer a threat. Sometimes there's enough violence and even if you probably SHOULD deal with someone, just let it go.
At first I felt bad that Clem had to see me kill Danny, but I'm glad the game lets you talk to her about why you did it, Lee says exactly what I would have said, that he was a bad man and couldn't be stopped any other way. She's smart enough to understand now, and honestly its not like the world is ever going to fix itself, she's going to need that lesson.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is... OMG I want the third episode =(
I did the same. For me it was Danny was clearly batshit crazy, who had killed people before without much pause and would almost certainly do so again.
With Andy, he was a broken man, and I was already forced to kill the other two members of the family and he was no longer a threat. Sometimes there's enough violence and even if you probably SHOULD deal with someone, just let it go.
At first I felt bad that Clem had to see me kill Danny, but I'm glad the game lets you talk to her about why you did it, Lee says exactly what I would have said, that he was a bad man and couldn't be stopped any other way. She's smart enough to understand now, and honestly its not like the world is ever going to fix itself, she's going to need that lesson.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is... OMG I want the third episode =(
i have a really hard time being the "bad guy", even in games. most games make it pretty easy, the "bad guy" choice generally being more asshole (a la most bioware games) than actual bad person. TWD has been really good in that regard, making it more who you side with and reason vs. emotion.
On my second playthrough, hitting buttons quicker, I saw that dude's lip quiver before the block dropped.
Sinister Telltale. Sinister.
Sinister Telltale. Sinister.
@MrShine
See, I think what you said to Clem about Danny there is just wrong, lol. I said that I screwed up. We didn't have to kill him at all... no real reason to. I now feel like you're just trying to justify killing Danny to yourself lol! What a meta-game...
See, I think what you said to Clem about Danny there is just wrong, lol. I said that I screwed up. We didn't have to kill him at all... no real reason to. I now feel like you're just trying to justify killing Danny to yourself lol! What a meta-game...
Of course players try and do the "right" thing - because it is a game and they wanna get the "best" ending or something. In a real-life zombie apocalypse, it would be all those zombie movie clichés all over again. People tend to get less noble in the face of almost certain death for sure.
Anyway, I for one made some of those "logical" decisions because when I play moral choice games, I try to be absolutely honest. Too bad the game is petty much straight forward - there are no ultimately "wrong" decisions, or so it seems...
Anyway, I for one made some of those "logical" decisions because when I play moral choice games, I try to be absolutely honest. Too bad the game is petty much straight forward - there are no ultimately "wrong" decisions, or so it seems...
"My guess is that most people just don't want to potentially ruin their game or risk being punished for doing something "wrong"."
I manipulate and analyse data and stats professionally, and I would bet money that this is by *far* the single biggest factor in people's behaviour in these games.
As for me, where possible I play these games honestly, and therefore logically, trying to reflect what I would do. But it's rare to be able to actually do that as most games give you the best stuff for being 100% 'blue' or 'red'. And most games don't come close to being able to make me RP in them to the point of giving up in game shit for the fluff.
I manipulate and analyse data and stats professionally, and I would bet money that this is by *far* the single biggest factor in people's behaviour in these games.
As for me, where possible I play these games honestly, and therefore logically, trying to reflect what I would do. But it's rare to be able to actually do that as most games give you the best stuff for being 100% 'blue' or 'red'. And most games don't come close to being able to make me RP in them to the point of giving up in game shit for the fluff.
I kind of want to see who gave who food. Also, I think Episode 2 had too many obvious choices for me... The only things I agonised over were killing Danny and whether I should take the supplies or not. I can't wait for Episode 3 though. Shit gonna be cray.
I wouldn't say that is surprising. Gamers are conditioned into performing noble actions to progress in games, lest they lose a life or miss opportunities to achieve the "true" ending etc...
Doing the good, positive, right thing has been traditionally rewarded over the decades so we tend to follow the unwritten rules we are familiar with.
Doing the good, positive, right thing has been traditionally rewarded over the decades so we tend to follow the unwritten rules we are familiar with.
I wouldn't say that is surprising. Gamers are conditioned into performing noble actions to progress in games, lest they lose a life or miss opportunities to achieve the "true" ending etc...
Doing the good, positive, right thing has been traditionally rewarded over the decades so we tend to follow the unwritten rules we are familiar with.
Doing the good, positive, right thing has been traditionally rewarded over the decades so we tend to follow the unwritten rules we are familiar with.
I try to be logical and help anyone I can, and choose what's best for the group, but I didn't take the food. It's basically saying to Clem that stealing's ok, and Lilly was right, we might be ruining someone's lives. Also I just generally help characters that seem more useful, Carley over Doug (Good shooting), Lilly over Kenny (He's an asshole).
I think it depends heavily on how much you actually think about the decisions.
For some people, they see a choice like 'take the food?' and they only go as far as 'stealing is bad! don't steal!'. A very simplistic mindset. But if you really think about it, that car was abandoned, and left on. If you were actually in the zombie apocalypse, those supplies would be vitally important to you. The only logical explanation is that a person or people had to abandon those supplies and/or is already dead. They probably took what they could and moved on already. Worst comes to worst, they could come by your camp and you could share with them and help them at that time, but there's no need to leave abandoned supplies in a car, where they may never be used by anyone, especially when your group is so low on supplies.
For some people, they see a choice like 'take the food?' and they only go as far as 'stealing is bad! don't steal!'. A very simplistic mindset. But if you really think about it, that car was abandoned, and left on. If you were actually in the zombie apocalypse, those supplies would be vitally important to you. The only logical explanation is that a person or people had to abandon those supplies and/or is already dead. They probably took what they could and moved on already. Worst comes to worst, they could come by your camp and you could share with them and help them at that time, but there's no need to leave abandoned supplies in a car, where they may never be used by anyone, especially when your group is so low on supplies.
I noticed in the stat round up at the end of EP2 that most people had made the decisions I had except on the stealing food decision which was close to 50/50. I took the food. Clem's love seems unconditional and her group's survival is more important than moral sustainability.
I think most people are generally good and that comes through in their gameplay. Seriosly, how many people harvested Little Sisters, or at least didn't feel bad about it?
I think it's easy for people to be moral when their lives aren't actually on the line, but were it "real life" as it were, I bet a lot more people would be inclined towards the darkness if their life was actually in the balance.
I try to get a bit emotionally invested in the experience and think to myself what I would try to do if I were in Lee's shoes.
Episode 2 had me struggling for most of it and trying to make decisions I felt were crappy but ultimately what needed to be done. When Clem looked at me the way she did when I took those supplies, I felt like crap, but I also knew I was feeding her and that is what made it right for me.
Episode 2 had me struggling for most of it and trying to make decisions I felt were crappy but ultimately what needed to be done. When Clem looked at me the way she did when I took those supplies, I felt like crap, but I also knew I was feeding her and that is what made it right for me.
I try to get a bit emotionally invested in the experience and think to myself what I would try to do if I were in Lee's shoes.
Episode 2 had me struggling for most of it and trying to make decisions I felt were crappy but ultimately what needed to be done. When Clem looked at me the way she did when I took those supplies, I felt like crap, but I also knew I was feeding her and that is what made it right for me.
Episode 2 had me struggling for most of it and trying to make decisions I felt were crappy but ultimately what needed to be done. When Clem looked at me the way she did when I took those supplies, I felt like crap, but I also knew I was feeding her and that is what made it right for me.
I think a lot of this has to do with how well they have developed and portrayed the relationship between Clem and Lee, and avoided making Clem an "annoying child" type character (like Duck). I hope Last of Us does as good a job, it will be very important to that games success too.
I try to do the right thing as well, but only when it doesn't compromise my ability to survive. If I was starving in real life and found an abandoned car of stuff with food food, I sure as fuck would take it without second thought. Just like I did in the game. I didn't even hesitate.
TellTale has done a fantastic job of creating a set of characters that really do pull at your heartstrings and make you second guess yourself. I definitely felt a pang of guilt when Clem looked at me after I said we'd take the food... but in the end, it's my duty to keep my friends alive and safe. If I have to be a "bad guy" to do that, then let all the guilt fall on me. I'll carry the burden.
TellTale has done a fantastic job of creating a set of characters that really do pull at your heartstrings and make you second guess yourself. I definitely felt a pang of guilt when Clem looked at me after I said we'd take the food... but in the end, it's my duty to keep my friends alive and safe. If I have to be a "bad guy" to do that, then let all the guilt fall on me. I'll carry the burden.
Bah... I need to stop editing my posts partway through while distracted by something else.
I meant to say: "If I was starving in real life and found an abandoned car stuffed with food, I sure as fuck would take it without second thought.
I meant to say: "If I was starving in real life and found an abandoned car stuffed with food, I sure as fuck would take it without second thought.
I don't think this really represents anything. For example, I would have taken the supplies from the car in a realistic situation, because, afterall, our big group was starving to death and incredibly tired/stressed because of what happened, survival is a priority and there were enough supplies to leave a crate or two (the game doesn't let you take only part of the supplies, it's either all or nothing). But I choose not to take the supplies in the game because I didn't want to fack up my relation with Clementine. In my opinion it's much more irresponsible to let a child starve and freeze to death, but in the game I make the choices that I think it will lead to better rewards. Get it?
For me, I don't like being forced into all or nothing scenarios. If there's a possibility that the supplies belong to someone who's alive, why can't I just take half of them or something like that?
I can't be a bad guy in any game. Even when I try. My stupid fucking sense of empathy is too strong that if I start a game like, say Skyrim, intending to be a murdering asshole, I always even feel bad when I so much as steal.
Dammit, with two children depending on me, I DID WHAT I HAD TO DO! DON'T JUDGE ME! Sorry... excellent game, though.
I did the "right thing" but thats just how I roll.. Plus, yeah, like tmak94 said, I couldn't do it with Clem looking at me like that.
Telltale really needs to get that next episode out.
Telltale really needs to get that next episode out.
This isn't surprising. It's much easier to always take the moral high ground in a fictional setting.
Now if it truly was a life & death situation, people would be much more pragmatic.
Now if it truly was a life & death situation, people would be much more pragmatic.
I don't think it's at all surprising that people would gravitate toward being a good videogame character. In a world where being a good person is as easy as making relatively simple, well defined choice, as opposed to the real world where "good" is all but entirely subjective, people are almost always going to try and be the hero.
Remember the homeless guy outside Rivet City in Fallout 3? I rest my case.
Remember the homeless guy outside Rivet City in Fallout 3? I rest my case.
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