Fresh from the hacker's pantry, here are the
uncut scenes from Rockstar's controversy magnet/attention whore,
Manhunt 2. In all its bleak and bloodsoaked glory, this showreel of murder is taken from the hacked PSP version that I reported on in an
earlier post and that Nex
added to just a moment ago.
I've never been a fan of the term 'torture porn' when it comes to videogames, but if ever a game deserved such a label, this would be it. Watching these scenes, I feel like they're not meant for my eyes, like they were intended for more perverse minds to enjoy. I wasn't disgusted, nor was I shocked, I felt ... nothing watching this. No emotion whatsoever. The bleak and needlessly grim way with which these scenes are carried out just fills me with emptiness.
There's something about this nasty little showreel that makes me feel one thing, though -- an overwhelming urge to never buy
Manhunt 2 -- edited, hacked or otherwise. I also find myself filled with more words than a mainpage normally allows, so please hit the jump. I have a lot to say about this artistic vision of Rockstar's.
There is a reason why games like this aren't made, and it's a reason that disproves the entire 'violent games' argument from people like Thompson. We as gamers love violence, that is certainly true ... but not like this. This is too real. This is the closest to murder simulation that you can get. It's not over the top, crazy violence with explosions and un-natural fountains of blood -- that's fun. This isn't fun. It's dreary, it's drab and it's far too real. It's downright creepy.
I realize now what makes the Manhunt games different from violence in other games and movies. The content of the above video is no worse than the cult movie Ichi the Killer, or Peter Jackson's early splatter movies like Braindead, but it lacks something that those films had -- flare, class and entertainment value. The violence was stylized and well crafted and it had its place. I do not see this in the murders of Manhunt 2. Where the image of a man being beaten to death with a bag over his head could be made either funny or terrifying, or at least have a point, Manhunt 2's rendition of such an event is so devoid of feeling, panaché or amusement that it could easily be taken as something intended only for disturbed people to get off on.
I will uphold that Manhunt 2 should have been allowed a release in its true form, regardless of how tasteless it is, but I also want to maintain that, despite my beliefs of artistic freedom, I am not impressed with the crap in that video, and it is crap. You can make sawing into someone's skull fun, but that footage did not look fun to me. That's difficult to do, but Rockstar's unfeeling, psychopathic take on the scenario sucked out any enjoyment I could have had.
I don't think
Manhunt 2 is damaging to children, nor is it some great social evil -- that gives the content entirely too much credit. The reactionaries are still idiots for screaming about the sickening, outrageous violence, but at the same time, the BBFC had a point when it said the game's 'casual approach of sadism' was relevant. Certainly not grounds for banning or scaremongering, but foundation enough for gamers to make their own choice -- and to say with their dollars that they have no interest in shallow, meaningless bullsh*t that
doesn't even try to be enjoyable.
Perhaps this is some great and meaningful statement of Rockstar's, showing us that for all the hyper-real violence we love, the reality just isn't fun. In making a game that isn't entertaining in the least, Rockstar has shown that realistic violence is not what we enjoy, and proven that actual simulation of murder is horrible. Of course ... I am wary of giving Rockstar that kind of credit. Far more likely, all this time I've been campaigning for the uncensored release of an artistic vision that's just ... rubbish. It doesn't make my belief all the less zealous, but it certainly, fittingly, takes the fun out of it. If anything, I'm angry at the BBFC not because it robbed me of my choice to buy Manhunt 2, but because it robbed me of my choice NOT to buy Manhunt 2.
As I think about it, I guess I lied at the beginning when I said that this footage got no emotion from me. I do feel something as I watch this video ...
Disappointment.
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"This isn't fun. It's dreary, it's drab and it's far too real. It's downright creepy."
Well said man, I totally agree with you. This game is fucking messed up to the point where I think it just should be completely ignored.
Strange, I remember this video actually being released (or to my knowledge) last week on a different site.
However, it's still pretty brutal, though the blood and gore effects upon weapon contact don't vary too much.
Amen, brother, amen.
Well said. Unfortunately the embeded player doesn't have a stop or pause function because about a minute or so in to it I grew tired of it and had no choice but to refresh the page.
I wish all this controversy could have been better spent on a violent game worth playing.
I think this is first time that like I've totally agreed with you, Jim. :P
Christiangamer: Which means is the first time you've had the right idea. :-D
This... this is ribbish. This is what they banned? Jees. I just think this is lovely. Watching it has somewhat made me want Manhunt 2, except that these are the bits they took out, so I suppose all that's left is the bland stuff.
Really, I can see why some of that stuff would offend people, but most of it was so bland, such fake controvacy... like the whole hot coffee thing that I was led to believe for a long time was the addition of an actual sex scene, when really it was just two standard character models dry humping. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Is anyone else hard?
Somebody must have put some carpet fresh into gordon freeman's cocaine. That would make anyone go psycho.
The visuals are too unrealistic to warrant the attention that the game has gotten.
I played some of the uncut Manhunt 2, and I didn't think it was awful or anything.
It was basically more of the first game, which I was a fan of...I'm one of the seven or eight fans.
I hope the people that trash the game for being full of graphic violence for graphic violence's sake don't go into the Phantasmagoria post from a few days ago and cream their pants over the game.
For the record, being a big fan of video game violence, I thought both games were great at satisfying that...blood thirst? Whatever.
Mr. Dynasty Warriors/ KOEI Represenative/ Jim Sterling: Whatever! lol
This really wasn't as bad as I was expecting. I'm pretty queasy when it comes to gruesome stuff (Saw makes me nauseous), but aside from a lot of the decapitations and the garden shears, this isn't nearly as gruesome as I thought it would be, especially with all the ado about it.
That said, I'm still uninterested in the game, considering I just spent six minutes watching what the whole point of the game is.
Does this game have anyone interested in buying it for anything reason apart from controversy?
I did have a sinking feeling in my stomach when I saw the sawing of heads off. It reminded me of a video of a real man getting his head sawed off and it's not cool funny or rad. It's fucking sick.
We all like that over the top zombie tearing people to pieces violence, it makes us laugh and joke around, but when violence like this reminds us of a real act, it is disturbing.
I totally agree that I would have liked to have voted against this non-entertaining violence by not buying it.
I must reiterate: I was not shocked, horrified or disgusted by anything in that footage. My problem lies in the total lack of feeling or anything resembling entertainment. Where this differs from the mentioned Phantasmagoria is that the latter game at least had over-the-top splatter sensibilities that made the violence enjoyable in a squeamish, "eeew" kinda way. The kind of way that you can laugh at because it's so out-there.
Manhunt 2 isn't out-there, it's just ... fucking shit.
Actually, let me be more specific. I wouldn't buy this game, because I think Rockstar make terrible games. Moreover, my games would be far, FAR more graphic than this. More realistic, more grimey and gritty, more disturbing, and far better made. Because honestly, I can't defend the game for being good anyway if it's honestly a shitty game.
Man, if this is artistic vision, then they need new glasses!
"Torture porn" describes this very well. I hope it's just as you mentioned--that they're trying to make a point about surrealism vs. realism, because I just can't see myself ever wanting this game after seeing that. Maybe this is the videogame equivalent of "Supersize Me" or something.
I absolutely loved games like GTA and Carmageddon and such, but this... I just can't put it into words. No. Just no. I guess if anyone's got the cash to waste on development just for the sake of making a statement, though, it's gonna be Rockstar.
It's kind of like telling Hellen Keller jokes to a couple of your friends and you see a retarded kid and your Rockstar friend starts making fun of him. Then it's not funny anymore and then it justs gets awkward and you kinda just slowly walk away from him and you kinda regret telling him all those Hellen Keller jokes.
If Rockstar wants to release a game to for the sake of being controversial, then hell, let 'em. But personally, I wouldn't even consider renting this. I hope they're not expecting a big return on this. But hey, they have GTA to fall back on, at least theres quality and depth in those titles.
"Manhunt 2 isn't out-there, it's just ... fucking shit."
Agreed.
The crappy polygon count doesnt allow me to recoil in disgust. Seems as though the game is as tired as its predecessor though.
that took a gorry minute. If your the one that controlls avatars help me out check out my blog post.
I couldn't have said it better myself. While I still think that people should have the choice to buy stuff like this if they really really want to (i.e. it shouldn't be banned), I personally hope that most people would choose not to buy this.
I mean, yeah, something like Ichi the Killer or Riki-Oh or whatever... like Jim says, this is just... different somehow.
Based on what little I've cared to see of Manhunt 2, I'll just quote The Angry Video Game Nerd: What a shitload of fuck.
This game looks like absolute shit (and not just the graphics). It looks like this game has no substance other than "OMG PUSH 1 BUTTON THEN WATCH FOR 10 SECONDS WHILE WE DO RIDICULOUS HOSTEL/SAW LIKE THINGS!! HEY KIDS LOOK IT'S XXXXXXXTREME!"
@DangerousD
The only person who controls avatars around here is you. Try editing your profile.
On the topic of the post, I have to agree with what Dexter345 said. There's no real reason to buy the game now that I've seen what was cut out of it, and that's a shame because the original Manhunt was the very first game that I bought for the PS2 and I liked it.
Personally, I don't see a gigantic difference between the two.
Phantasmagoria is misogynistic violence for misogynistic violence's sake.
Manhunt 2 is deplorable violence for deplorable violence's sake.
They're both likely offensive to the majority of people out there, though what we view as offensive is purely objective. Personally, if I had to choose to be more offended by one, Phantasmagoria would get the nod, simply for the use of FMVs. I'm not offended by either at all, though. Go go desensitizing.
Purely subjective, rather. That's subjective.
It's late.
I'm not offended by either myself. My point is, Phantasmagoria's death scenes were entertaining while Manhunt's 2 are completely devoid of any heart whatsoever.
Brutal.
Who's to say that it doesn't? I found it very entertaining in that Tarantino-style, cartoony violence. Stabbing someone? Not funny. While doing it in piggy-back? Hilarious. Made me giggle for sure.
It's a very subjective matter.
Jim, I agree with you completely.
The footage just seems lack of anything what-so-ever to make it entertaining.
It does my heart good to see that the majority of people here also feel the same way.
This kind of shit shouldn't be able to garner as much attention as it has, simply because it doesn't represent what games are meant to be. Which, to me, is entertainment. And that...
Is just god awful.
Rockstar's New motto: "Creating controversey for controversey's sake, since GTA."
I'm amused by both collections of death scenes.
Different strokes, I suppose.
I have to agree Jim. There is no thought behind the violence in those clips. It's brutality for the sake of brutality.
How does anyone find this entertaining? Gears of War was insanely gory, but you were blowing away alien ass. This is all just over the top insane, torture, psychopath murdering.
It's different in grand theft auto because you don't feel a sense of...torture and it's all in a cartoony fashion but this...I don't know. I would never have fun with this. I still don't think it should be banned, but why would you want this?
It seems as if they sat in a room and said, "how can we kill people in the most sickening and horrifying way for no reason at all?"
"I know! We'll shovel a guy's head off!"
...I feel bad for saying that this game is too much for no reason, but it's true. And I'd sound like a hypocrite for playing games like Mortal Kombat and Gears of War, to other people, but I know as gamers you guys understand the difference between a good spirited fatality and ripping someone's testicles off with some pliers just for the fuck of it.
I disagree.
I think that the brutality has a purpose. It's letting us, the player, take a glimpse at the sadism of Leo Kasper, and how he has influenced Daniel Lamb into becoming a violent serial killer. The brutality could also be a form of outlet for the personality of "Leo". A way of letting "it all out" at those he feels has wronged him somehow.
That's my way of seeing, anyway
It looks horrible.
I completely agree about the lack of emotion. For the same reason I don't like slasher movies, the only thing the scenes will evoke out of me is wincing.
...
That's the problem with snuff in general I suppose. You go into it already knowing the ending. At least throw out some witty (or even cringe-worthy) one liners! Hand saw a guy from anus to neck? Make a comment on how he shouldn't be constipated anymore. Smother him with a shopping bag? Drop the classic "paper of plastic" line.
...
On a related note, how exactly does one who isn't an little child die from a plastic bag choking? I mean, it a friggen' plastic bag, just rip it. Maybe I just haven't explored it enough, but it seems pretty simple to me. :p
an +A for creativity...
I mean, to bad the game play is so bad, i would loved playing a game like this if you actually had the control, not just trigger some action sequence. that is what sucks about this game. but watching people get messed up like this is really funny... LOL
ITS FICTION! so its fun...
I agree with everything you just said.
Well yeah, the game sure looks like poo, but i guess it will be a hit among pubescent boys, maybe a little bit like the faces of death movies or rotten was back in my teenager days.
It's just for showing off, not actually enjoying it or anything.
Lame comparison, i know.
"The video you requested is for mature audiences only. According to your player settings you do not meet the minimum age requirements to view this content."
What the hell?
This isn't artistic. This is violence for the sake of violence. What makes this enjoyable? Rockstar should stick to beating whores with bats and ping pong.
Yeah it just felt empty. It might be because all the scenes are out of context, but I doubt it.
I don't have a lot more to say besides agreeing with Jim.
If they made it like a survivor horror game with real people rather than zombies it would be fun. Like sam fisher escaping from a jail using only what he can find lying around
I'm with Fullgore, and Knives brings up a good point. The video was meant to be a demonstration of the various kills. Just because you can use them, doesn't mean you need to in every possible scenario. Obviously, the brutality makes more sense within the context of the story...more particularly when you realize how fucked up the characters are.
By the way, if you guys think Manhunt is 100% devoid of any sort of artistic quality or merit, you need to educate yourself on a series called "August Underground".
That's the real deplorable shit that has no place on this planet.
I just laughed and laughed while I watched that.
I found it hilarious, that corporate actually approved this and hired full time developers to make this. People are fucking stupid and demented. Sure, I can reason that coders and animators need jobs, and they'll do whatever they need to keep said jobs, but someone had to make the decision that "This is the direction we want to move in".
And what a great direction it is. I just roofled at the different amount of ways that were animated to kill. Someone was being very creative there. What a crying shame - they couldve focused at a more productive direction and maybe accentuate the better things about Grand Theft Auto instead of taking the hooker beating simulator and expanding on it.
I kinda get the feeling that most people judge the game based solely on the showreel. Not even bothering to check the game out themselves. I may be wrong, and I'm just assuming here but seriously, that's the vibe I'm getting here.
If you haven't, then...
It's empty because you haven't invested any time actually playing the part that comes before these. The tension of finding a proper hiding place, the thrill of inching your way towards your target, the uneasiness you get when you decide to leave the safety of the shadows, the suspense you get when hear those far-off noises, the satisfaction you get when finally manage to bring down your would-be killer. Without these prior moments, your right, these are just acts without emotion, without "heart". Not entertaining at all.
oh man, that handsaw to the anus.
umm...back to hello kitty island adventure for me.
Well said Jim. I'm as much for videogame violence as the next gamer, I am for the next Gears of War or Mortal Kombat. But this crap seems far too real and something that should never reach store shelves. It was tasteless, pointless, and plus the graphics suck. Good thing this game wasn't built for the PS3 or 360.
I couldn't even watch that whole video - I can't even see how anyone can call that fun. It's like having to sit through all those damn Japanese RPG cutscenes that you just can't skip, except instead of funky haired big eye children talking about saving the Earth from the evil corporation, you're stick will seeing a man getting half his faced pulled off with a crow bar.
Seriously it's true, Rockstar can't do anything but make a GTA game, everything else they do is undeserving of any attention no matter how retarded/violent the subject matter is.
lol the saw kills were the best.
Also, someone should superimpose Jack Thompson's head onto all of the victims and have that Benny Hill song playing in the background :)
Couldn't have put it better, Jim. Nice writeup.
Couldn't have put it better, Jim. Nice writeup.
@Fullgore
I know the feeling i would get watching any of those scenes while playing the game would be different, but still, the lack of emotion is a turn off, at least to me.
I admit that I haven't played Manhunt, but you mention being tense, feeling satisfaction and all that while playing, why is that not reflected in the character in those vids? I could be missing something critical for not playing the game or maybe they just cut out some stuff, but is that how the character is supposed to act?
i agree it goes to far when..well you cant really call it killing because its overdone if its suppose to be about stealth what ever happened to just slitting the enemies throat instead he stabs them multiple times(more than needed) or puts a bag on there heads and beats the shit outta them and its not like i have a problem with violence(hell my dad plays GTA with me sometimes)its just that this kind of violence is tasteless
I'm glad Manhunt 2 exists. Is it boring as hell? Probably. Will I buy or rent it? Nope. Did I even finish that clip reel? Nah, I stopped it about 2 minutes in. But regardless of it's quality I am appreciative of the folks who try to "push the limits" of any given art medium. There NEEDS to be those people who push the boundaries of what's acceptable, extreme, boring, tasteless, vulgar, shocking, etc. I'm not debating whether or not this is a good game or if it's even worth playing. Radical pieces of art whether it be films, books or even video games keep things interesting, creates dialog among people and most importantly exercises and puts to the test our first amendment rights.
If their medium is "suck," Rockstar's certainly pushing the limits of it.
If their medium is "suck," Rockstar's certainly pushing the limits of it.
Jim, I couldn't have said it better myself. (Although, I could probably make that statement to you in regards to most of your posts. :P) I found that video incredibly disturbing. Not shocking per se, because what the hell is there left in the world to be shocked by, at this point? But there's just something... ugly and, as you said, creepy about these kills. It's like Rockstar missed the point and tried to make the game as unpleasant and vile as possible, everything else be damned. It doesn't seem to achieve anything other than crappiness, simply put.
Whether or not this game is damaging to children is irrelevent, since it's not supposed to be freaking played by children in the first place. What the game is, is torture porn - and I mean that in the worst sense possible. As you said, it's gone beyond violence as entertainment. I can't even finish the video; it all becomes a mind-numbing blur, after the first few minutes.
@ChristianGamer
That baby gif was perfect.
What a bunch of wusses first off, secondly any game can be reduced from any story it has by showing the most gruesome of its gameplay. We as gamers should...be aware that any media can be dumbed down to its most goriest moments and be villanized.
What if we reduce Gears of War purely to repeated chain saw killings, the view would become thats purely a Chainsaw Massacre game.
I think its somewhat ridiculous that you and everyone else can condemn the game in the same way that the mass media does it, which puts you guys on their level, which is sad.
Sorry, but that's a terrible example. The chainsaw kills in Gears of War are a relatively small, and fairly inconsequential, aspect of the game. This Manhunt 2 video, on the other hand, shows dozens of different kills that are a major (though not necessary[?]) aspect of the game. In fact, it's the game's number one gimmick. And, as Jim said, Gears is relatively cartoonish in its chainsaw scenes. Manhunt is just... bleh.
Incidentally, did it ever occur to you that not everything the mass media says is - GASP - completely wrong? No one's saying they've been totally accurate about this, but maybe some of us have some common ground with them, now. Is that wrong? Grow up, dude. You're welcome to enjoy this game, but don't just call us all batshit sell-outs because we're not being rebellious and countercultural and agreeing with you. Most of us are just calling it as we see it.
I remember at one point that Rockstar called this game a "masterpiece". After watching this, it's abundantly clear that they're just trying to push buttons. I ultimately had to decide between this game and Fire Emblem, and I can't tell you how glad I am that I chose the latter.
I totally still have to disagree, and here is my retort in full here.
I've seen this video several tines and theres something thats always seemed a bit odd to me. I've never hit someone upside the head with a flashlight but I'm pretty damn sure that unless you're the Goddamn Hulk you can't knock three quarters of their head off.
Also, as some who owns MH2, that even censored it is still a dark, gruesom game that should not be played by little children. And any parent who buys this game for their kids is a horrible human being.
I've seen this video several tines and theres something thats always seemed a bit odd to me. I've never hit someone upside the head with a flashlight but I'm pretty damn sure that unless you're the Goddamn Hulk you can't knock three quarters of their head off.
Also, as some who owns MH2, that even censored it is still a dark, gruesom game that should not be played by little children. And any parent who buys this game for their kids is a horrible human being.
@onomelon That last part I do agree with completely. As I am the Hulk I can attest to the possibility of knocking someones block off.
That's what they censored? Seriously? I can see more violence on cable.
Games like these have a purpose (whether its intended by the developer or not): to show you that videogame violence does induce an emotional effect on players.
I'm not gonna say anymore, because from then on its opinion.
But you can't watch this and say it doesn't affect you at all. The sound effects and animations are realistic enough to have an effect on any 'normal' person. So Jim, while I pretty much agree with everything you've said, you seem to be extremely vengeful towards Rockstar for making this game. I hope its not because you defended their rights as a developer when trying to sell the game. If so, and im probably wrong, but if it is, then you should probably take a chill pill and realize that you knew what they were making when you were defending them.
Thats my two cents, now go crazy
Hopefully it should be obvious to everyone why the BBFC might have had a slight problem with the game.