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and Chad nails it in one. I will point to this article when I see that kind of silly talk. (no I won't. I'm lazy. But the rest of you should)
(also, you lay out articles really well.)
(also, you lay out articles really well.)
okay, i just wanted to get in there with the juvenile '4.5' joke before anybody else. I have actually read the post this time :) and i wholeheartedly agree. People take the score/percentage of a game too literally and this is a very good explanation of how it works.
Also, at the end of the day a score is a reviewers opinion. im sure we all have a game that we really enjoy which got slated by critics
Also, at the end of the day a score is a reviewers opinion. im sure we all have a game that we really enjoy which got slated by critics
I think the brussel sprout to chocolate cupcake analogy was perfect. One was the better example of what it was, but chocolate will always beat vegetable.
I generaly don't care about the score itself. I check gameplay videos and read what other people think, the score is more of a cherry on the cake to me.
So yeah, that's me.
So yeah, that's me.
Jim's review of Dragon Age was incorrect in many aspects, I could care less about the score just don't make shit up.
I understand why you post this but I don't think you'll get the point across. People look at scores for a game and see what other sites think. Depending upon which site's review they like better they'll comment on the other site about the score it was given on their favorite site.
Not all reviewers are the same and some are more critical on games than others. Which is why I think overall people should look up multiple reviews so they get different viewpoints on it. As a whole that should be what you base your decision on opposed to just one person's opinion of it.
Not all reviewers are the same and some are more critical on games than others. Which is why I think overall people should look up multiple reviews so they get different viewpoints on it. As a whole that should be what you base your decision on opposed to just one person's opinion of it.
@ MacV
i personally find that its all about the gameplay videos. A well trained gamer can spot bad gameplay a mile off
i personally find that its all about the gameplay videos. A well trained gamer can spot bad gameplay a mile off
I think that part of the reason why people compare review scores is because if they have to decide between game A and game B if game A has a higher score, they are more likely to buy it than game B. I think this put a new perspective on how I will view the scores though. I previously thought that a 5 was an average, middle of the road game (in my mind: Timeshift), and the rating was based off of that. Interesting to consider an internal comparison instead of a comparison against all other games...
@Sonvar: I don't know, he managed to get the point across to someone like me who has the attention span of a gnat, so I'd say that's a job well done.
and then i grow a bush of macaroni out of my head
sorry, i just liked the slightly chaotic writing i usually have as well
Thing is, destructoid does scoring (hehe, ahem) like you said, i hope everyone will remember that. But a lot of other sites|magazines or whatever there is, which reviews games, they may actually have some "unified game score", and comparing can be done. but then again, i'm loaded with beer now and say that grass is yellow
i love cheese
sorry, i just liked the slightly chaotic writing i usually have as well
Thing is, destructoid does scoring (hehe, ahem) like you said, i hope everyone will remember that. But a lot of other sites|magazines or whatever there is, which reviews games, they may actually have some "unified game score", and comparing can be done. but then again, i'm loaded with beer now and say that grass is yellow
i love cheese
Scores are good for nothing.
A well written review with a conclusion that not recommend, recommend or highly recommend. That would be perfect.
A well written review with a conclusion that not recommend, recommend or highly recommend. That would be perfect.
Having 5 be "average" makes no sense. When scoring or grading things in the United States, it's almost always referenced to the scales in school. 7 (70) is considered average. 50% is porous.
Awesome post Mr C, but I fear it will fall onto deaf ears. The type of person who gets upset about the number a stranger has personally assigned a game overall, really aren't interested in lateral thinking and sleeping with members of the opposite sex. They're too uptight about numbers and figures, the short hand. They can't be arsed to take the time and read a review properly, but they sure do like to make others read their protests. Arrogant bastards. Their heads get so swollen, I'm surprised they can see at all, which explains a lot. They're blinded by their own stupidity!
Oh yeah, I forgot to add. A score usually is a score based on a 1-10 scale on different aspects of the game resulting in the final score (Not necessarily this site) (This is kinda obvious facts tbh, not sure why I even type this.)
Let's say my score is devided by 1. Graphics. 2. Gameplay.
I give game (A) a 10 in graphics and a 1 in gameplay it will average a 5. Vice versa with game (B) (10 in gameplay and 1 in graphics) and it will average 5 aswell.
I would say that the game with the better gameplay is better, but you can't really compare the two. So yeah, kinda pointless post I guess.
Let's say my score is devided by 1. Graphics. 2. Gameplay.
I give game (A) a 10 in graphics and a 1 in gameplay it will average a 5. Vice versa with game (B) (10 in gameplay and 1 in graphics) and it will average 5 aswell.
I would say that the game with the better gameplay is better, but you can't really compare the two. So yeah, kinda pointless post I guess.
I can see your point. But a universal scoring system like the one that exists (more or less) today tends to encourage, even demand comparison.
More evidence that the numering rating system is crap?
More evidence that the numering rating system is crap?
What Sonvar said. No one should rely on any single review to get the whole picture. For something as expensive as a $60 purchase, multiple viewpoints are required.
Good points, however, I think it misses out on what the reader generally expects from a review. Readers expect scores to be a standard, so a 8.0 comes off as being higher recommended than a 8.0 (this feeling is helped by the fact that your site's revies have an explanation of what scores translates to at the end of reviews). Quite frankly, I second the opinion of whoever aaid this article should be linked at the top of each review, because otherwise, I don't think most readers would have assumed this was the case otherwise.
I get the problem with reviews, the only real quantifiable stats of a game (gameplay responsiveness, graphics, framerates, length) would constitute a fairly boring review, but everything else is subjective. I do understand as well how an 8.0 could be better than a 9.0 (perhaps the game is so great, you don't mind slightly wonky controls etc, but we marked it off anyway). And I can see how indie games or casual games could be graded on a different scale than traditional games (indie 8.0 does not equal traditional 8.0 etc), but if you are going to make the review scores so intangible, you are probably better off leaving them out completely.
I get the problem with reviews, the only real quantifiable stats of a game (gameplay responsiveness, graphics, framerates, length) would constitute a fairly boring review, but everything else is subjective. I do understand as well how an 8.0 could be better than a 9.0 (perhaps the game is so great, you don't mind slightly wonky controls etc, but we marked it off anyway). And I can see how indie games or casual games could be graded on a different scale than traditional games (indie 8.0 does not equal traditional 8.0 etc), but if you are going to make the review scores so intangible, you are probably better off leaving them out completely.
So, Chad, is this the official game scoring policy of Destructiod? If so, perhaps it should have been posted soon and in an official capacity.
Unfortunately, when something is posted as an 'editorial,' like your article is, that lies in direct opposition to the claim your article makes.
Unfortunately, when something is posted as an 'editorial,' like your article is, that lies in direct opposition to the claim your article makes.
@Lydeck
Seriously!? I hear this argument a lot but let me just say. If you don't see how on a scale of 1-10 5, the number directly between the two, being the middle makes more sense than having 7 you need help. Yes it's different in schools but no one said we were supposed to be grading like in schools.
Seriously!? I hear this argument a lot but let me just say. If you don't see how on a scale of 1-10 5, the number directly between the two, being the middle makes more sense than having 7 you need help. Yes it's different in schools but no one said we were supposed to be grading like in schools.
I agree with this. I've never disputed one of your scores. I really want an updated version of Planet Puzzle League on the Wii!
I get your point and all but it still comes down to the straight score for me. I mean this whole "potential of what the game could be" thing makes sense but that's not how reviews work. I mean every game should have the potential to be a 10 so in the end if a game gets a 9 and another game gets a 2. The 9 should be all that much better because they are both on the "100% potential scale". I mean, what if I were to say I was going to make a game that had a stick figure that could move to the left and right and that's it. It's only potential would be that it will have a guy that moves left and right. So as long as it does that you think the game should get a perfect 10? It is living up to all its potential after all. You even said yourself:
"The point of this article is to not dissect review scores"
So keep it simple then. a 9 is better than a 5. always.
p.s. the cake/ brussel sprout analogy only works if your comparing two different foods (games)to each other(which is a little stupid I admit). But if you were to see a cake that had 9/10 satisfied customers and a cake that had 5/10... tell me what one you would pick.
"The point of this article is to not dissect review scores"
So keep it simple then. a 9 is better than a 5. always.
p.s. the cake/ brussel sprout analogy only works if your comparing two different foods (games)to each other(which is a little stupid I admit). But if you were to see a cake that had 9/10 satisfied customers and a cake that had 5/10... tell me what one you would pick.
Also, people should also realize that STANDARDS CHANGE OVER TIME! Wich is why it is possible for a sequel to score less than the prequel, even though the sequel improves upon the prequel.
Well written article Chad! Now do something about your cocaine addiction and give us RetroforceGo back! >:(
Well written article Chad! Now do something about your cocaine addiction and give us RetroforceGo back! >:(
ZOMG DESTRUCTOID IS BIASED AGAINST VEGGIES!
@Archwright
http://www.destructoid.com/destructoid-reviews-the-official-guide-54570.phtml
There was another one by Jim Sterling I believe.
@Archwright
http://www.destructoid.com/destructoid-reviews-the-official-guide-54570.phtml
There was another one by Jim Sterling I believe.
Finally someone official says it. It won't shut people up (even if you agree with this post exactly what a score means is still up for eternal debate) but this does make sense of the comparison debacle.
At least it's made a believer out of me. I always thought while scores should be compared they should be able to be compared. It think this argument overshadows mine though. Congrats.
At least it's made a believer out of me. I always thought while scores should be compared they should be able to be compared. It think this argument overshadows mine though. Congrats.
Wouldn't the world be a lot better if we just got away with review scores and just did a thumbs up thumbs down system? Then people would actually have to READ the reviews before they threw a hissy fit. A lot of people just see the score that a particular game gets and don't bother to read the reasons why it gets said score. Seriously, why do we need this totally arbitrary number attached to our games?
I point to the game Ar Tonelico II for example. I despise that game, however certain parts of it are really very good. The graphics are nice and niche and colorful, the music is...eh...I guess, but the gameplay was a steaming pile of donkey poo. It was so bad that I scored the game a 4/10 because a certain other website only lets you review in numerical score, where as I normally do a buy/rent/skip format. Now granted 3 of the 4 major review points of the game were fine (graphics, sound, control) but the gameplay was such a big issue that when pressed for a score, I honestly gave it what I thought it deserved. Of course it doesn't stop the fan boys from flaming me on the message boards. Not that I really care what people who like playing a game where girls leveling up involves taking a bath together.
I point to the game Ar Tonelico II for example. I despise that game, however certain parts of it are really very good. The graphics are nice and niche and colorful, the music is...eh...I guess, but the gameplay was a steaming pile of donkey poo. It was so bad that I scored the game a 4/10 because a certain other website only lets you review in numerical score, where as I normally do a buy/rent/skip format. Now granted 3 of the 4 major review points of the game were fine (graphics, sound, control) but the gameplay was such a big issue that when pressed for a score, I honestly gave it what I thought it deserved. Of course it doesn't stop the fan boys from flaming me on the message boards. Not that I really care what people who like playing a game where girls leveling up involves taking a bath together.
@Woverine,
I get what you are saying, but the point of the analogy was to prove two different videogames are not the same. Meaning: comparing two cupcakes to each other is not accurate. Puzzle games (cupcakes) should be reviewed differently than an epic RPG (brussel sprouts). True, the meaning of the 1-10 scale stays the same (1 is terrible, 10 is amazing), but if the puzzle game has much "simpler" components than the huge RPG, does that mean it can't get a 10? If the RPG has better graphics, a better story, and better technology, that doesn't automatically make it better than the puzzle game.
If the puzzle game is a perfect puzzle game, as simple as it is, it still warrants a high score.
If the RPG is great, but far from perfect, it should earn an appropriate score (7,8). That doesn't mean the RPG is a worse game, though.
Make sense? :)
I guess I am just trying to get people to not see two COMPLETLY different games, compare their scores, and assume which one is "better" based on scores alone. It doesn't make any sense!
Man, this is not "simple" at all. Haha. :)
I get what you are saying, but the point of the analogy was to prove two different videogames are not the same. Meaning: comparing two cupcakes to each other is not accurate. Puzzle games (cupcakes) should be reviewed differently than an epic RPG (brussel sprouts). True, the meaning of the 1-10 scale stays the same (1 is terrible, 10 is amazing), but if the puzzle game has much "simpler" components than the huge RPG, does that mean it can't get a 10? If the RPG has better graphics, a better story, and better technology, that doesn't automatically make it better than the puzzle game.
If the puzzle game is a perfect puzzle game, as simple as it is, it still warrants a high score.
If the RPG is great, but far from perfect, it should earn an appropriate score (7,8). That doesn't mean the RPG is a worse game, though.
Make sense? :)
I guess I am just trying to get people to not see two COMPLETLY different games, compare their scores, and assume which one is "better" based on scores alone. It doesn't make any sense!
Man, this is not "simple" at all. Haha. :)
Exceedingly well done explanation of what is often in the back of my mind when reading reviews of simple games, and genres I simply do not like (Fight games, MMOs, team sports, games with glowing energy weapons, the list continues to grow).
There also seems to be growing evidence for me that there is little actual reward for making excellent games.
An excellent game once experienced seems to really invalidate the rest of the product line available on the platform.
I feel hesitant to suggest we are all rational consumers and that 'Perfect information' (HD video, large game screens, demos, accurate reviews and marketing) available to all people who sought to play only excellent games would really decrease game sales.
In my case however, it seems the more I know the less I want to buy, because I consistently feel developers do not even attempt to deliver quality that stresses the capacity of the platform.
A simple example would be infinity ward gimping their game to 600p for both platforms.
There also seems to be growing evidence for me that there is little actual reward for making excellent games.
An excellent game once experienced seems to really invalidate the rest of the product line available on the platform.
I feel hesitant to suggest we are all rational consumers and that 'Perfect information' (HD video, large game screens, demos, accurate reviews and marketing) available to all people who sought to play only excellent games would really decrease game sales.
In my case however, it seems the more I know the less I want to buy, because I consistently feel developers do not even attempt to deliver quality that stresses the capacity of the platform.
A simple example would be infinity ward gimping their game to 600p for both platforms.
This is one of the reasons I always read the "Super Reviews" at GamesRadar. They spell out, at the end of the review, whether the game in question is better or worse than other games in the same genre. Very helpful.
munkee: "i personally find that its all about the gameplay videos. A well trained gamer can spot bad gameplay a mile off"
Also, this.
munkee: "i personally find that its all about the gameplay videos. A well trained gamer can spot bad gameplay a mile off"
Also, this.
This is just another reason why review scores only work to hurt video games. You can't rank two totally different games with numerical scores based on their quality and not expect people to compare the two. As a reviewer, it's your job to provide the proper context your readers need to understand where the game succeeds in comparison to similar game experiences. Sites requiring their reviewers to slap on a score at the end demean the process and their readers.
As for your analyzing the percentage of a game's success or lack thereof to determine its score, I think that's just ridiculous. How can you tell people not to compare game scores to one another, then ask them to determine a numerical percentage of how much more successful it can be?
As for your analyzing the percentage of a game's success or lack thereof to determine its score, I think that's just ridiculous. How can you tell people not to compare game scores to one another, then ask them to determine a numerical percentage of how much more successful it can be?
@TheDirtyHobo,
I think our scoring system is in line with this article.
I am not saying we score our games wrong at all, or that we should change the way we evaluate individual games. If anything, I think we are more fair and realistic than most gaming sites out there! I just don't think people should compare all of our scores next to each other to determine which games are better than others.
That's what I was trying to say, at least. :)
I respect what you are saying, though. There may be some review inconsistencies every once and a while. That's hard to avoid. :)
I think our scoring system is in line with this article.
I am not saying we score our games wrong at all, or that we should change the way we evaluate individual games. If anything, I think we are more fair and realistic than most gaming sites out there! I just don't think people should compare all of our scores next to each other to determine which games are better than others.
That's what I was trying to say, at least. :)
I respect what you are saying, though. There may be some review inconsistencies every once and a while. That's hard to avoid. :)
Well said. I think it should be a mandatory read before commenting - we could avoid a lot of idiotic comments.
The amount-of-potential perspective also makes a lot more sense than most others I've heard around here. I wish scores could be ditched altogether, but since they're here to stay I just wish more sites would use the entire damned scale.
The amount-of-potential perspective also makes a lot more sense than most others I've heard around here. I wish scores could be ditched altogether, but since they're here to stay I just wish more sites would use the entire damned scale.
I've never thought about scores consciously this way, but it pretty much meshes with the general feel I got with reviews here. Kind of nice to have it defined and scientific.
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