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The Podcastle episode 11: When Sterling met Thompson
5:31 PM on 05.01.2008, Jim Sterling 155 comments

The Podcastle episode 11: When Sterling met Thompson photo
     The Podcastle

What happens when two of the biggest egos in games media sit back and discuss arguably the biggest release in videogame history? We'll let you be the judge of that, as we welcome controversial defense attorney Jack Thompson to The Podcastle to discuss Grand Theft Auto with yours truly.

This week, we have a very short first half as the usual crew of Jim Sterling, Wardrox and Atheistium chat about Grand Theft Auto IV, and announce a special contest -- simply use our Community Blogs and find an inventive way to mix the worlds of Jack Thompson and Grand Theft Auto together. Be it a short story, image, video, song or -- my favorite -- interpretive dance, the best four entries will receive redemption codes from Atheistium, allowing them to download Xbox Live GTA IV picture packs -- for nothing! 

Then we introduce the main event, as Jim Sterling speaks to Jack Thompson for the very first time. In this historic event, Jack Thompson actually makes good on his promise to appear on a videogames podcast. How do I manage to keep the volatile attorney on the phone for almost fifty minutes? How do I manage to get even a single word in edgewise? Did Jack Thompson confess that his son plays GTA? All these questions are for you to decide the answers for, but here are the highlights:

Jack Thompson thanked by a gamer? Jacko tells us why.

Jim isn't interested in Jack's testicles. 

What is a "murder simulator?" Also, Jack's expert is better than Jim's expert, apparently.

Tom & Jerry needs to be less fun!

What was in Ted Bundy's Xbox?

Jim tries to explain why Take-Two threatening Walmart is a ridiculous idea.

Jack tries to explain why Grand Theft Auto IV is illegal pornography.

Jack asks Jim to file an American lawsuit, even though he's British.

Thompson is a gangsta rap expert.

At least Jim & Jack agree that IGN getting an exclusive review was rubbish.

Jack pushes for the final solution.

"Have I had my Wii Fix?"

Thompson's terrifying vision of the future.

I really hope you enjoy the show, and that I did videogamers and Destructoid proud. I would also like to thank Jack Thompson for his time, despite the nature of his exit, and tip my hat at someone who, I must confess, was a pretty challenging arguer. As always, check out our Podcastle page to listen or download. Alternatively, we can be found on iTunes.

Enjoy.


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MaxVest's Avatar
MaxVest at 05/01/2008 17:34
I would also like to thank Jack Thompson for his time, despite the nature of his exit

SPOILERS
wardrox's Avatar
wardrox at 05/01/2008 17:34
JT is my BFF
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar
Phoenix Gamma at 05/01/2008 17:34
I love this photo so much. His head is rolling over his shirt and his face is all unshaven. Maybe he's been playing GTA4 a lot...
Vlambo's Avatar
Vlambo at 05/01/2008 17:35
This is the way to follow up last weeks Epic episode
liquidninja's Avatar
liquidninja at 05/01/2008 17:36
@Vlambo
I don't see how that's possible.
Fishstick's Avatar
Fishstick at 05/01/2008 17:46
Damn ... Thompson's eyes ... so full of liquid crazy. I wonder if he even remembers when the hinges came off.
CountingConflict's Avatar
CountingConflict at 05/01/2008 17:49
Jack rolled lawl
Holyetheline's Avatar
Holyetheline at 05/01/2008 17:49
This is epic. I can't wait to go home and listen to this while I play GTA IV
Murumasa123's Avatar
Murumasa123 at 05/01/2008 17:54
Wow cant believe u got him.
And cant believe more that Jim was so fucking CALM (compartively)
Vlambo's Avatar
Vlambo at 05/01/2008 17:55
There were 2 ways that follow up last weeks episode.

1. To have Jacko
OR
2. Have Rambo ride a flaming motorcycle through the Gates of Hell while fighting an army of Robo-Hitlers with "Princes of the Universe" by Queen playing in the background.

I know we want the latter but sometimes you gotta take the lesser.
Greg's Avatar
Greg at 05/01/2008 18:02
"If you keep talking over me i don't think the audience is gonna hear both of us"

So awesome.
Bioautographical's Avatar
Bioautographical at 05/01/2008 18:15
He basically argues like a lawyer - he expects no questions to have any rhetorical elements to them. Whenever Jim would get close enough to make a point, he'd stomp on the rhetorical end of it and try to answer it at face value.

I'd have loved to see more parental responsibility talked about, as well as the responsibility of the killers themselves, but the end of the cast explains WHY more words couldn't have been gotten in edgewise - he hopes to win his arguments by dominating everyone else and not letting them get a point in. "There's enough blame to go around" is a copout. Amongst the parents who let the guy play the game (IF he was even a juvenile when he started playing it) and the guy himself who felt it was okay to kill someone - he chooses to nitpick at an industry who has little, if any, blame. That's like suing McDonalds for the existence of fat kids, rather than expecting them to put down the burgers, or their parents to keep them out of their hands.

That said, Jack Thompson is a fucking tosser, and I think Jim handled the interview extremely well. He seems to only toss out his hysterical, overblown bullshit when there's no warm body to immediately call him on it (such as telling Jim to go rape children, that was a fun one). I'd have probably just called him a fucking cunt.
charliesuh's Avatar
charliesuh at 05/01/2008 18:19
"I can't kill anyone without auto-aim." - Jim Sterling


Win.
moot button's Avatar
moot button at 05/01/2008 18:27
Wow Jim! You're the Hunter Thompson to Jack Thompson's Richard M. Nixon!! Except with a monocle, and more mescaline!
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar
Phoenix Gamma at 05/01/2008 18:42
I think both arguers should have had a time limit to get their point across before the next person can rebutt it. I love you, Jim, but it's kinda frustrating to have you both talk over one another.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 05/01/2008 18:44
Phoenix: I agree, we should have. I didn't want to interrupt him or talk over him, but it was the only way to stop the thing being a monologue, sadly. Thompson didn't seem keen to have anyone else talk but him.
Qraze's Avatar
Qraze at 05/01/2008 18:47
downloading now. this should be good. bullhorn
Qraze's Avatar
Qraze at 05/01/2008 18:47
downloading now. this should be good. airhorn
rabidkeebler's Avatar
rabidkeebler at 05/01/2008 18:50
I do have to wonder what he will do after his license is revoked. Obviously he will still go after the game industry, but I wonder if the major news outlets will listen to him after it is gone. BTW Loved listening to this. Between this and the NPR incident, today is looking a little bit better.
Sarin's Avatar
Sarin at 05/01/2008 18:51
You have to cup the balls!!!!
DamnYouKrycek's Avatar
DamnYouKrycek at 05/01/2008 18:52
Yeah, this was extremely frustrating to listen to. Jim, I know you did your best, but when you have a raging lunatic on the other end talking over you while also getting angry at you for trying to squeeze in a point or two, it doesn't make for good radio. You get a win for the effort though.

P.s. - Nice touch with the politeness, I would have just called him a cunt and hung up the phone the first time he repeated my name in an attempt to try and quell my rebutles.
myaimistrue's Avatar
myaimistrue at 05/01/2008 18:53
"Hey Jim, did you ever hear of Cain slaying Abel?"
Neonie's Avatar
Neonie at 05/01/2008 18:57
and he just goes on.....and on....and on....
Mr Television's Avatar
Mr Television at 05/01/2008 19:02
I thought you did exceptionally well, Jim, kept your cool at moments where I would have blown my top. I noticed that whenever you had him in a tight spot (e.g. over having even played enough of the game himself to have encountered any 'sex') he would laugh heartily at your apparent naivety and say something unbelievably patronising and off-topic. But there you go. You did well.
Spartacus's Avatar
Spartacus at 05/01/2008 19:04
Oh, this should be epic. Downloading.
Passionate Styos's Avatar
Passionate Styos at 05/01/2008 19:06
Christ, Jacko was a prick, he never let Jim talk and he was accusing him that he was being interrupted? Oh god..Kudos for you Jim for still staying calm with Jacko, still, I wished that he would let you talk.
Dennen's Avatar
Dennen at 05/01/2008 19:12
You did well i'd have to say Jim.

Jack seemed like he was just all over the place. Keep on topic, he'll stick to it until he felt like going off topic. He entirely skipped around the idea that the world before the modern age as we know it was far more violent than it is today.

He's a fool to believe that todays world is more violent.

I also note. Why the hell was he talking to you as if you had a huge marketing pull with Take Two and every retailer across the US? Have I uncovered some insider information that George Bush goes by Jim Sterling on the internet and has a great ability to mimic the British accent?

But I do have to say. Him trying to get you to stop talking when he's talking was madness. He was practically cutting you off for every sentence you spoke. It's ridiculous.

And I think you made an excellent point with Take Two vs Wal Mart in terms of size and market range... Shortly after that he just became childish.

So for that, I congratulate you on a job well done Jim. You properly held your ground and he just made the same old commentary he always does - he did not even attempt to get off his high horse or even attempt to see things from your point of view as a gamer.
Murumasa123's Avatar
Murumasa123 at 05/01/2008 19:12
Trouble is after hearing it all his idea of children not playing those games is solid.
Yeah sure u cant control parents at home letting them play but it is sortof fair that if movies in cinemas are restricted then games must be too. Its an arguement that its harmful in excess but so is drink and drugs.
Jack as i said is too fuckign stupid to realise that just becuase it made someone kill another it doesn't mean thats the problem!
Look at his logic for fuck sake! Clearly that guy is fucked up already! Moron what a moron.
Jim realease an article of what youv'e had said i was almost interested, or next time give a 2 min limit between each persons speaking to stop interuption.
I waited for you to say "What a CUNT" at the end Jim you dissapointed me a little...
Dennen's Avatar
Dennen at 05/01/2008 19:18
I would also like to add. For all his talks of violent advertisement and all. I cannot say I recall advertisements for Doom or Counter Strike.

I have been playing games for longer than I can remember. I cannot say I am anywhere near as violent as the average high schooler that did not play games. As a matter of fact, I live my life very passively in terms of violence...

If what he was saying ended up as the truth, the world at large would be in total anarchy. Blocks in every street constantly burning. Mobs attacking federal buildings and police buildings. All of this brought on by the News, Movies and Video Games. But that just is not the case.

Yes games should be more restrictive of who they are sold to. But I think more important than that, parents need to become more aware of what their children are doing. Regardless of what Jack feels Wal-Mart or EB Games should do, the parents ALWAYS have the capability of restricting that access in their own home. And if the child is fleeing home to play it elsewhere because Timmy's mom doesn't know about the game. Then that's a failure on the part of the parents to be more active in their childs daily lives.

We cannot expect TV, Computers, Movies and Video Games to raise our children. Maybe if Jack focused his efforts less on bullying every company who makes a game he doesn't like. Maybe if he stopped threatening to sue police forces or grieving families for a list of computer documents and confiscated items. Maybe if he instead focused his efforts in attempting to educate the parents of this generation on how to restrict mature elements from their children IN GENERAL. Maybe he would have got something done.
Bricfa's Avatar
Bricfa at 05/01/2008 19:22
I have to admit Jum, you were a bit out of your league in this debate. Perhaps with a moderator it would have gone better, but jack was a lot better at taking control over the debate.
Craig Lewis's Avatar
Craig Lewis at 05/01/2008 19:23
For fucks sake. What a tosser.

He basically says that there are people out there, that if it weren't for games such as grand theft auto, then they wouldn't have killed.

How can he justify that?

I'm pretty sure when a person sets out to kill someone it's either A. Because they have a motive, or B. Are mentally unstable. - whether they played a game or not is irrelevant.


Also he says that games are training people to kill. But surely by this logic, a shooting gallery at the fair (which is aimed at kids) trains them to kill, as they are training with an air rifle to shoot targets. THEN THE KIDS ARE REWARDED WITH PRIZES FOR THE MORE TARGETS THEY HIT. IT'S SICK.


Perhaps if america stopped selling guns, and changed the law to make it illegal to sell games to minors, there would be less killings. But by the sound of it, Jack Thompson wants neither of these, considering he said the laws were fine.


gah, what an utter cunt.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 05/01/2008 19:25
Bricfa: Yeah, that's the nature of the position I was in. As you see at the end, taking control away from him makes him leave. If I'd have done what I was forcing myself not to do, it would have been a very short podcast.

A moderator would have been a good idea. I had to balance myself as a debater with myself as a host. It was a very difficult scenario to be in.
Bioautographical's Avatar
Bioautographical at 05/01/2008 19:27
Yeah - lawyers, by profession, ARE mediators. He's pulls this kind of shit in front of judges. I doubt he'd have had any problems just storming off if he thought he wasn't coming off as "the winner" or being allowed to drone on.

I think it was handled in the best way it could've been, for sure.
FreedomToast's Avatar
FreedomToast at 05/01/2008 19:29
you tried jim thats all we ask for but i couldve used more usage of the word "cunt"
Dennen's Avatar
Dennen at 05/01/2008 19:33
I also loved it when Jack would say "JIIiiim!".. That would have irritated the flying hell out of me so much.

He sounded like a parent attempting to scold his child by just saying the childs name.
Cheeburga's Avatar
Cheeburga at 05/01/2008 19:33
Downloading.
liam2015's Avatar
liam2015 at 05/01/2008 19:33
Hot damn. This should be interesting. D-loading now.
Jake127's Avatar
Jake127 at 05/01/2008 19:36
I live in Canada, and the Government doesn't really care about games.
vexed alex's Avatar
vexed alex at 05/01/2008 19:41
Christ, Jack Thompson is a rude bastard. He hates getting interrupted but he'll open his mouth whenever someone else is talking. Hypocrite.
unitqm's Avatar
unitqm at 05/01/2008 19:42
Follow me on this one... We all know who and what Thompson stands for. So why does Destructiod, NPR, blog after blog after blog give him the time of day. I walk past crazy people every day on the way to work. "Spare some change?" "Have you heard the good news." "The end is near." I hear these people and I just lower my head and walk on by. I don't run up to them and ask them to justify themselves or give them a soapbox to stand on. Thompson is like a kid in a candy store and this site is the bad parent who bows to their every whim. Why do we do it? Is it because this is a business? Is it because hit counters go up every time a Jacky story hits the Blogs? Why do gamers feel the need to feed this stupid little mans ego? I urge Destructiod to take this in consideration. If there is a crazy man screaming on the moon does anyone hear him? No. Destructoid (media in general) gives Jack Thompson a voice. And John Q. Public loves it. We love debating about video games and violence. Let's examine the bigger picture... Uneducated... Poor... Apathetic... Self Centered... People who have no business having children are doing so. They use media in general to babysit for them and they do not raise their children properly. 5 minutes in a Halo3 Lobby will tell you that the youth of America are little Shits who need to have Jack Thomson kick the crap out of them.
xper's Avatar
xper at 05/01/2008 19:44
Jack needs to study criminal psychology A LOT more than this...

BUT... what Jack does bring up, and it's something I don't see from the gaming community, is marketing and the power of PR. This seems to be the soul of his crusade, and I frankly condone it.


*now: liberal "bs"*

We are not free. we are being controlled in every step of the way in out everyday life by our cultural and social situation. Everything in our mind is manipulated by what we see and what we can get a hold of.

Jack talks about behavioral psychology which I find very interesting, as it connects to perceptional psychology, which, in turn, is the primal focus here.

If you strip away all his ignorance about what videogames actually are, there are some psychological and sociological aspects of his arguments that are very, very interesting to look into. The gaming community badly, badly needs to look into these kinds of things before lashing out at Jack Thompson just because of the fact that he obviously haven't played a videogame nor understands the fundamental aspects of interactive media.

Even if you can't stand the guy, look at what he's actually saying. Don't focus on the videogame regulations he's talking about or how he's cutting off Jim all the time; focus on what he's saying about marketing and psychology, because you might find something of value there.
wardrox's Avatar
wardrox at 05/01/2008 19:48
@unitqm, we all know people like him are wrong. But we always just agree with ourself. Bringing somebody such as JT onto the show proves the other side. We did try to add a 20sided debate, which would be awesome, and we weren't too far off with this one.

I know people are sick of hearing his shit, but if we get rid of him, somebody else will come up, and they might actually be smart enough to be a real problem.
bruceleethree's Avatar
bruceleethree at 05/01/2008 19:48
@unitqm

I've brought this up before. Sterling apparently believes the people demand it so he's gonna keep doing it.

I don't think people want to hear anymore about this idiot with down syndrome. We know his positions, we know he's wrong. Let him go.

All you're doing is glorifying your own need to obsess over him.
Phoenix Gamma's Avatar
Phoenix Gamma at 05/01/2008 19:50
Oh I totally agree, Jim. Podcastle almost because Jackcastle within the first few moments of him talking about how some guy from someplace somewhere thanked him or something. At least with a time limit he'd have to shut up AND there'd be no interruptions.
Jim Sterling's Avatar
Jim Sterling at 05/01/2008 19:51
"I don't think people want to hear anymore about this idiot with down syndrome. We know his positions."

Then you haven't read the comments here, or the unprecedented 100+ comments to our pre-show post.

There is no supply where there is not demand. I am merely giving my readers what they want.
mrplow8's Avatar
mrplow8 at 05/01/2008 19:52
What Jack Thompson does is continue to talk and talk so that the other person doesn't get a chance to. He's done this in every interview/debate that I've seen him in. He goes on and on so that the other person finally has to interrupt him to get their point across, and then he accuses them of not letting him speak.

And I'm 22 years old and I watch WWE all the time. I know lots of people my age and older who watch WWE. WWE's biggest demographic are 18 to 25 year old males.
Dennen's Avatar
Dennen at 05/01/2008 19:56
My last gripe with Jack's words... Waste of time... I entirely agree with you that one could practically say that about everything.

I hate that frame of thought that just because someone does something that another person does not - it's suddenly a waste of time.

Breakdancing? Pfft, that's such a waste of time. Going to a bar? Pfft, that's such a waste of time. So on and so forth. It's a self chosen hobby/activity that can vary from playing video games to lending a hand without pay at the elderly home. And it certainly is not a freaking waste of time. It's extremely ignorant for anyone to make that comment.
FreedomToast's Avatar
FreedomToast at 05/01/2008 19:58
detructoid's new podcast "Legal talk with Jack"
Now with Dolphins (Jack-Dolphins not allowed!!!)
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