First Podcastle I will ever listen to. Nothing against you guys, just that I already get behind with Podtoid and RetroForce, and I'm not British so I wouldn't be able to relate to your Rock Band and Brawl woes.

I would also like to thank Jack Thompson for his time, despite the nature of his exit

SPOILERS

I love this photo so much. His head is rolling over his shirt and his face is all unshaven. Maybe he's been playing GTA4 a lot...

@Vlambo
I don't see how that's possible.

Jack rolled lawl

Wow cant believe u got him.
And cant believe more that Jim was so fucking CALM (compartively)

"If you keep talking over me i don't think the audience is gonna hear both of us"

So awesome.

"I can't kill anyone without auto-aim." - Jim Sterling


Win.

I think both arguers should have had a time limit to get their point across before the next person can rebutt it. I love you, Jim, but it's kinda frustrating to have you both talk over one another.

downloading now. this should be good. bullhorn

I do have to wonder what he will do after his license is revoked. Obviously he will still go after the game industry, but I wonder if the major news outlets will listen to him after it is gone. BTW Loved listening to this. Between this and the NPR incident, today is looking a little bit better.

Yeah, this was extremely frustrating to listen to. Jim, I know you did your best, but when you have a raging lunatic on the other end talking over you while also getting angry at you for trying to squeeze in a point or two, it doesn't make for good radio. You get a win for the effort though.

P.s. - Nice touch with the politeness, I would have just called him a cunt and hung up the phone the first time he repeated my name in an attempt to try and quell my rebutles.

"Hey Jim, did you ever hear of Cain slaying Abel?"

I thought you did exceptionally well, Jim, kept your cool at moments where I would have blown my top. I noticed that whenever you had him in a tight spot (e.g. over having even played enough of the game himself to have encountered any 'sex') he would laugh heartily at your apparent naivety and say something unbelievably patronising and off-topic. But there you go. You did well.

Christ, Jacko was a prick, he never let Jim talk and he was accusing him that he was being interrupted? Oh god..Kudos for you Jim for still staying calm with Jacko, still, I wished that he would let you talk.

Trouble is after hearing it all his idea of children not playing those games is solid.
Yeah sure u cant control parents at home letting them play but it is sortof fair that if movies in cinemas are restricted then games must be too. Its an arguement that its harmful in excess but so is drink and drugs.
Jack as i said is too fuckign stupid to realise that just becuase it made someone kill another it doesn't mean thats the problem!
Look at his logic for fuck sake! Clearly that guy is fucked up already! Moron what a moron.
Jim realease an article of what youv'e had said i was almost interested, or next time give a 2 min limit between each persons speaking to stop interuption.
I waited for you to say "What a CUNT" at the end Jim you dissapointed me a little...

I have to admit Jum, you were a bit out of your league in this debate. Perhaps with a moderator it would have gone better, but jack was a lot better at taking control over the debate.

Bricfa: Yeah, that's the nature of the position I was in. As you see at the end, taking control away from him makes him leave. If I'd have done what I was forcing myself not to do, it would have been a very short podcast.

A moderator would have been a good idea. I had to balance myself as a debater with myself as a host. It was a very difficult scenario to be in.

you tried jim thats all we ask for but i couldve used more usage of the word "cunt"

Downloading.

A Conversation About The Weather Between Jim and Tom
By Heretic

Jim: Oh boy the weat-
Tom: WAS THAT A QUESTION?
Jim: No I wa-
Tom: YOUR CUTTING ME OFF.......O.K. go
Jim:..um it sure
Tom: IT LOOKS TERRIBLE TODAY!
Jim: I actually think it looks-
Tom: IF YOU CUT ME OFF AGAIN I'M GONNA PUNCH YOU!!

Christ, Jack Thompson is a rude bastard. He hates getting interrupted but he'll open his mouth whenever someone else is talking. Hypocrite.

Jack needs to study criminal psychology A LOT more than this...

BUT... what Jack does bring up, and it's something I don't see from the gaming community, is marketing and the power of PR. This seems to be the soul of his crusade, and I frankly condone it.


*now: liberal "bs"*

We are not free. we are being controlled in every step of the way in out everyday life by our cultural and social situation. Everything in our mind is manipulated by what we see and what we can get a hold of.

Jack talks about behavioral psychology which I find very interesting, as it connects to perceptional psychology, which, in turn, is the primal focus here.

If you strip away all his ignorance about what videogames actually are, there are some psychological and sociological aspects of his arguments that are very, very interesting to look into. The gaming community badly, badly needs to look into these kinds of things before lashing out at Jack Thompson just because of the fact that he obviously haven't played a videogame nor understands the fundamental aspects of interactive media.

Even if you can't stand the guy, look at what he's actually saying. Don't focus on the videogame regulations he's talking about or how he's cutting off Jim all the time; focus on what he's saying about marketing and psychology, because you might find something of value there.

@unitqm

I've brought this up before. Sterling apparently believes the people demand it so he's gonna keep doing it.

I don't think people want to hear anymore about this idiot with down syndrome. We know his positions, we know he's wrong. Let him go.

All you're doing is glorifying your own need to obsess over him.

"I don't think people want to hear anymore about this idiot with down syndrome. We know his positions."

Then you haven't read the comments here, or the unprecedented 100+ comments to our pre-show post.

There is no supply where there is not demand. I am merely giving my readers what they want.

My last gripe with Jack's words... Waste of time... I entirely agree with you that one could practically say that about everything.

I hate that frame of thought that just because someone does something that another person does not - it's suddenly a waste of time.

Breakdancing? Pfft, that's such a waste of time. Going to a bar? Pfft, that's such a waste of time. So on and so forth. It's a self chosen hobby/activity that can vary from playing video games to lending a hand without pay at the elderly home. And it certainly is not a freaking waste of time. It's extremely ignorant for anyone to make that comment.

@ Jim Sterling

How you you expect Jack to be responsible when you clearly are not.

"There is no supply where there is not demand. I am merely giving my readers what they want."

What a community wants vs. what a community needs are two different things. This is exactly what I addressed with my kid in a candy story analogy. You are the parent. It is time to say, "NO." A word that has lost it's meaning to some. The blame is on all of our shoulders for Idiots like Thomson giving them a mouth piece. I am of the position that it is Destructoids goal to improve the Gaming Community. Not to continue the dumbing down of America by saying, "Let them eat Cake." Yeah we all want to come together to say Thomson is stupid but are we that small and unsure of ourselves?

What did Ted Bundy have in his Xbox? I love you, Jim.

God damn, that was a really hard podcast to listen to. I think both of you guys are bad at debating and are extremely stubborn. Some of the points both of you guys were making were enough to make me cringe at its short sightedness. Kudos for doing it though, I was curious enough to listen.

I'm amazed that he mentions WWE so many times and doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact that they themselves are a form of violent entertainment with sexual aspects that aims it's product to kids.

Jim...I applaud the way you handled that. Even listening got me rather riled when he would just keep going off on one about points that didnt matter - Just STFU for a minute Jack! I dont know how you kept your cool without smashing your face through your monitor, but however you managed it, Bravo.

Hm. I am thinking that since Jack doesn't seem to understand the very concept of Silence. Or the concept of "I am done talking" "I should talk now"..

I am thinking that since that is the situation. Perhaps you should have told Jack midway through the topic "Since I keep getting interrupted, and apparently interrupting you. We should just start saying "Over" when we are done speaking for that moment."

.. Jack had to have been the rudest bastard ever spoken to courteously. He was interrupting you at every turn, yet when you say anything - even after he's finished a sentence, he starts whining like a child. I felt embarassed for him.

Nice try Jim. Jack Thompson is really long winded and will ignore your points and bring up his own.

Wow, I truly never thought that Jack was an ignorant guy, but after this I feel that he is truly ignorant and not just an attention whore. He talks plenty about common sense but I think that his definition of common only stretches to him and his peers. Maybe if he reached out to more people and had an intelligent conversation (lol, no) with not only people on his side he would see that common is not a proper description of what he sees is right. Or maybe he just doesn't read the body of the studies, just the results. "Well, a professor on my side says the results are a 100% affirmative, so maybe I should just skim the text and not question how the tests are performed... and not search for multiple variables that contribute nor simple say that such things as excite... This fake quote has gone on long enough, you get the point.

Also, he is a rude babbling cunt and I am surprised a jury could even be patient enough to hear him out. Actually, maybe they weren't and zoned out half-way through the hearing.

Good job, Jim, that was insanely hilarious and informative.

Circular logic works because Circular logic works because circular logic works because circular logic works because

Just FYI Pornography is defined as
"obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit." or something "SEXUALLY EXPLICIT."

god, I really dislike this man. He really does just talk and talk and talk. This wasn't a debate. This was Jack Thompson talking for 5 minutes, Jim Sterling trying to make a point and then Jack Thompson making a smart remark and re-explaining what he just said in the past 5 minutes.

I'm sorry it ended up like this Jim :[

this guy pisses me off when he doesnt shut the fuck up i just wanna yell shut the fuck up for a second

I bet Ted Bundy would have liked Fusion Frenzy.

I wish I could say I liked the interview. I think Jack is a retarded blow-hard, but I do agree with his comments that Rockstar should be doing their part to withhold stock of GTA from retailers who don't check ID with sales of GTAIV (yes, including the all powerful Walmart). It's pretty clear IMO that Rockstar is marketing this game not just toward adults, but also teens. I think most of us who have reached the age of majority can enjoy the sadistic humor, black comedy, and over-the-top violence for what it is: grown-up entertainment. But if Rockstar is really creating a product meant to be enjoyed by adults only, why aren't they doing a better job at aiding retailers in policing the sale of their product to underage kids who don't meet the requirements for purchase? I don't think Rockstar deserves the blame solely, but I think if they, along with retailers and parents were doing their part at keeping this from being sold directly to minors, things would be great. I don't understand how any adult gamer could have an objection to that. Now, if parents want to buy this game for their kids, and they are sure they're mature enough to handle it, that's fine. Just like I should be able to take my kid into an R-rated film while supervised if I had kids and were so inclined. That way, the choice is in the hands of the parent, the responsibility is in the hands of the parent, and the media would have a harder time blaming the industry for violent video games being an unchecked malevolent force on the youth of America and the world at large.

Unfortunately, making snarky comments over Jack's reasonably well-spoken diatribes (wrong as they might be on some points) might make for entertaining podcasts for Destructoid's target audience, it doesn't do much to advance the idea that game-enthusiasts are a mature demographic appreciating a legitimate art-form. It just makes us seem like a group of petulant, whiny children who can't do anything but immaturely snicker when somebody doesn't know what a 'Wii Fit' is, and a bunch of folks who reflexively and blindly defend against any negative criticism of an industry that we love. I think both of you guys were putting up some pretty weak straw men, and both of you did your part to not advance the conversation in the least. Not that it's all your fault, Jim. Jack is a crazy MF...

also ZOMG they're selling the game to 17 year olds.....except on the box...M is for 17+ ass..

Am I the only one who thinks Thompson was on the money in this interview? I think Take Two should warn Wal-Mart or any other large retailer that if they sell Mature games to kids they'll lose their business.

It's called integrity.

So what if they're big companies with lot's of money involved, kids are playing stuff they shouldn't play.

I actually respect Thompson a lot more after actually hearing this back and forth. I think both parties got pretty heated, a lot of interrupting, but that was expected. He's not trying to end video games, he's trying to keep them out of the hands of minors....if we didn't have 'annoying' dudes like him making sure things don't get too out of hand I think games would be a lot more gratuitous with sex and drugs than they are now.


I'm married, and someday soon I'll be a father. I'd be pleased to know that it'd be just as difficult for my kid to get into a strip club as it is for him to do it in a game he shouldn't be playing. And I'd be comforted knowing that my kid won't see advertisements for strip clubs during the commercial breaks, or games that let you go into strip clubs.

I think most peoples' problems with the dude aren't what he does or the court cases he takes on, but his personal ideas about games and media...which are opinions and everyone's entitled to one....right?

Why don't we like this guy again?

So really what I got from Jack tonight is that GTA 4 is a murder simulator because Cain and Able teamed up against the Attorney General to get back at the prostitutes and extinguish innocent lives, all in the name of blurring the line between who is Tom and who is Jerry.

I mean, I might have heard it wrong, after all I don't speak the language that they do at Crazy Ass-hat University as well as Jack seems to.

I don't understand why some of my fellow d-toiders are thinking that Thompson made a good case.

Jack Thompson's arguments don't hold up to statistical evidence. Violent crime rates in the US have drastically decreased since the 1950s.

When this is data is taken into account Thompson's assumption that video games somehow increase violent tendencies is shown to be erroneous.

This would have been a great counter-point for Jim to bring-up.

I have one problem with everyone who speaks to Jack Thompson about GTA. Why does no one mention that the majority of civilian and police killing is completely optional and that the players are in no way forced to kill anyone outside of missions. Aside from the dirty cops in GTA:SA, I don't recall ever being forced to kill any police.

Also, why doesn't anyone tell it like it is when he says that the game rewards you for killing police? When you kill police it actually makes the game far more difficult for you and the longer you live while reeking having the larger the law enforcement squads you will be chased by and eventually even SWAT teams and the Army. That doesn't really sound rewarding to me.

Anyway, we can't take anything this idiot says serious especially when he's calling things pornographic that aren't. I mean going by the logic he uses a woman in a bathing suit would be considered pornographic. How can you call "gangster" rap pornographic? Verbally offensive or obscene, maybe. But pornographic is by definition only pertaining to imagery such as pictures, video, and drawling. Also, pornographic is pretty much defined as sexual intercourse of some kind, but where there is no nudity and actual intercourse of any kind, how can it be pornography?

Every second Jack Thompson was cutting Jim off and after five minute long rants when Jim decided to say something he acted like he was being cut off at every word. Honestly, Jim you should have been more aggressive with him. Why didn't you mention the book Grand Theft Childhood? I mean that's a huge study that goes against his claims and was back by the US government with over one million dollars funding it for over a period of five years I believe.

Also, it was sickening how he completely dismissed the fact that the majority of video game players, violent video game players, have done nothing wrong. I mean he actually had the nerve to say it was probably a higher percentage who've done nothing wrong, but then say it doesn't matter basically saying the mistake of a few should be pushed onto gamers as a whole.

Also, yes, we've heard of Cain and Abel, Jack. But, guess what, not everyone believe in that shit. Not everyone is a fanatical bible thumper, in fact not everyone had a religion. That's absolutely no proof that Cain and Abel, the same ones form the bible, had ever even existed as far as I know.

All of his arguments are nonsense twisting fact. What was his excuse when he was confronted about the FBI's records that had shown that youth violence had been on a drastic downward spiral since the popularity of video games began rising back around the release of the original DOOM? He claimed that the FBI or the schools just weren't reporting it. What a bunch of shit. Also, I liked how he brought up the shit about Postal being advertised to children, which isn't even a main stream video game, and has never once been advertised on television to my knowledge.

Also, I like how he complains about GTA being advertised on WWE programing while WWE's programming is pretty risque a lot of the time itself. Not to mention that during many of WWE's shows alcoholic drinks/beverages are advertise as well between breaks, yet no complaints about that? Odd. I mean, they don't have a problem with that, but they do have a problem with video games being advertised at 8PM-10PM/9PM-11PM? When should video games like GTA be advertised? Midnight on the Spice channel? Get some fucking sense idiot!

keep up that track record of yours jack :)

loves listening to himself talk, huh....

he should be a rabbi.

god forbid.

Someone needs to do real studies showing how without videogames, we'd all be killing each other more. Although, I guess that wouldn't stop him, since the only people who know anything are the people who Jack Thompson references.

1) GTA4 should not be sold to minors. Agreed! Vendors should be punished for doing so. Here, where I think Jack Thompson can actually make a difference, sounds just fine to me. I hope he wins and Wal-Mart gets the crap sued out of them (fuck Wal-Mart anyway).