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Gotta love the ten year old Ritalin-Heads that need to shit all over Zelda because they think it makes then cool.
Pitiful. LOL
Pitiful. LOL
Stupidity Impending.
But it's official, it's not gonna bend your obscure fan ideals whether you like this timeline or not.
The Timeline makes sense to me, and the fact one of the timeline split is the Hero of Time defeated raises eyebrows, but it does make sense.
Personally I think with this future Zelda games will form around the timeline, giving you a larger sense of story.
But it's official, it's not gonna bend your obscure fan ideals whether you like this timeline or not.
The Timeline makes sense to me, and the fact one of the timeline split is the Hero of Time defeated raises eyebrows, but it does make sense.
Personally I think with this future Zelda games will form around the timeline, giving you a larger sense of story.
So,
Hyrule, according to this "official timeline", WASN'T unified in TMC, even though it CLEARLY states in the game that the land is Hyrule. And it CLEARLY states in OoT that Hyrule wasn't a nation until AFTER the war. Which, according to this "official timeline", happens AFTER TMC.
*NEXT PARAGRAPH IS SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN"T FINISHED SKYWARD SWORD*
Also, assuming OoT's time travel-splt ending actually makes sense, then shouldn't there be a split after Skyward Sword's time travel ending? Yes, I understand Link and Demise fight in a realm beyond space and time in the game's finale, but the point it, Demise is gone in the past, meaning there is no need for him in the future. His "essence" that you fight in the present era of Skyward Sword should never appear. Meaning....the time travel mechanics in Skyward Sword need to be fully explained by the devs.
*END SPOILERS*
Nerd rage? YOU BET.
I find it odd, that after they kept the timeline in secrecy for soooo long, they quietly release it. I'm not entirely sure what to think until I hear them directly say "Oh yeah, that's the timeline we've been talking about for so long hidden away." Regardless, I'll take this as fact, for the time being. If it does end up being 100% official, I"ll just look to play the Zelda games as separate entries and stop trying to figure out timeline stuff, because this doesn't make much sense at all...
Hyrule, according to this "official timeline", WASN'T unified in TMC, even though it CLEARLY states in the game that the land is Hyrule. And it CLEARLY states in OoT that Hyrule wasn't a nation until AFTER the war. Which, according to this "official timeline", happens AFTER TMC.
*NEXT PARAGRAPH IS SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN"T FINISHED SKYWARD SWORD*
Also, assuming OoT's time travel-splt ending actually makes sense, then shouldn't there be a split after Skyward Sword's time travel ending? Yes, I understand Link and Demise fight in a realm beyond space and time in the game's finale, but the point it, Demise is gone in the past, meaning there is no need for him in the future. His "essence" that you fight in the present era of Skyward Sword should never appear. Meaning....the time travel mechanics in Skyward Sword need to be fully explained by the devs.
*END SPOILERS*
Nerd rage? YOU BET.
I find it odd, that after they kept the timeline in secrecy for soooo long, they quietly release it. I'm not entirely sure what to think until I hear them directly say "Oh yeah, that's the timeline we've been talking about for so long hidden away." Regardless, I'll take this as fact, for the time being. If it does end up being 100% official, I"ll just look to play the Zelda games as separate entries and stop trying to figure out timeline stuff, because this doesn't make much sense at all...
Also: To all those who say "What about when Link is defeated in other games?!", remember that OOT was a game where you changed time frequently, and since it was the only game to use frequent time-travel, it's the only one where dying creates an actual timeline.
@Magnalon
Wait wait wait, are you saying that when Link is sealed in the Sacred Realm for 7 years, he's essentially waking up in a different reality? How does that work? He isn't traveling into the future instantaneously, he's sitting around while time passes him by. How can the Link-less past become its own dimension since he's destined to come back in the future?
Or are you talking about some other moment where Link re-lifts the Master Sword? Even then, don't you travel to the future of the same timeline you're already in? I know this is the official timeline here, but I'm really having trouble understanding this. It's Crono Cross all over again <_<
Wait wait wait, are you saying that when Link is sealed in the Sacred Realm for 7 years, he's essentially waking up in a different reality? How does that work? He isn't traveling into the future instantaneously, he's sitting around while time passes him by. How can the Link-less past become its own dimension since he's destined to come back in the future?
Or are you talking about some other moment where Link re-lifts the Master Sword? Even then, don't you travel to the future of the same timeline you're already in? I know this is the official timeline here, but I'm really having trouble understanding this. It's Crono Cross all over again <_<
Does this mean we're going to see an ultimate compilation?
All the games in one package, in-order for the wii u in 2013..
U heard it here first!!
All the games in one package, in-order for the wii u in 2013..
U heard it here first!!
The only thing that doesn't make sense is the "Ganon is revived" part of A Link to the Past. If Link failed in Ocarina, Ganon wouldn't need to be revived, would he?
Then again, now matter how you play, you DO defeat him. Eh, whatever.
Then again, now matter how you play, you DO defeat him. Eh, whatever.
So fucking cool. I like how they did not just put the games in a line but that they explained all the events that took place.
Doesn't make sense. In the prologue to Link to the Past, the good guys clearly won. Meanwhile, in the prologue to Wind Waker, the good guys clearly lost. Other than that switch, I can accept this.
@PhunkyPhazon
I said this in the other tread:
When you think about it, the events of Ocarina of Time naturally lead to three timelines instead of two, for one simple thing: when Link removes the Master Sword, he is not ready.
This implies not only that failure is possible, but that it indeed happened, and that is the reason he get's put in stasis for 7 years.
Basically, when he grabs the sword time splits in two: one line where he goes and fights Ganondorf and loses, and another where he is put in stasis for 7 years. Then, when Zelda sends him back in time to before they met, time splits again.
I said this in the other tread:
When you think about it, the events of Ocarina of Time naturally lead to three timelines instead of two, for one simple thing: when Link removes the Master Sword, he is not ready.
This implies not only that failure is possible, but that it indeed happened, and that is the reason he get's put in stasis for 7 years.
Basically, when he grabs the sword time splits in two: one line where he goes and fights Ganondorf and loses, and another where he is put in stasis for 7 years. Then, when Zelda sends him back in time to before they met, time splits again.
"A few days ago"
Yesterday, or Jim is in the time warp again.
"The existence of an official "timeline" has been a source of frantic debate among gamers."
Well then count me in then, because I swear on the Triforce itself that the timeline existed in the early 2000's on the official Zelda website, around the time Wind Waker came out.
"One would think that this timeline will put an end to one of the oddest gamer controversies around, but something tells me that many still won't be satisfied."
Western gamers won't because they're only having to rely on shoddy fan translations of the book(theres not much of a way to know unless you know the language and import the book yourself). Give the west access to this book, translated by the company who makes it or a reputable western publisher, THEN maybe people around these parts will accept it better. Otherwise, places who rushed to make infographics like Kotaku did or this person's chard don't mean a whole lot without someone official coming along and saying "yeah, they got it right"
Yesterday, or Jim is in the time warp again.
"The existence of an official "timeline" has been a source of frantic debate among gamers."
Well then count me in then, because I swear on the Triforce itself that the timeline existed in the early 2000's on the official Zelda website, around the time Wind Waker came out.
"One would think that this timeline will put an end to one of the oddest gamer controversies around, but something tells me that many still won't be satisfied."
Western gamers won't because they're only having to rely on shoddy fan translations of the book(theres not much of a way to know unless you know the language and import the book yourself). Give the west access to this book, translated by the company who makes it or a reputable western publisher, THEN maybe people around these parts will accept it better. Otherwise, places who rushed to make infographics like Kotaku did or this person's chard don't mean a whole lot without someone official coming along and saying "yeah, they got it right"
@killias2
"Doesn't make sense. In the prologue to Link to the Past, the good guys clearly won. Meanwhile, in the prologue to Wind Waker, the good guys clearly lost."
In the prologue of AlttP, the Sages and Knights of Hyrule seal Gannon away. There's no Link/Hero of Time involved.
In the prologue of Wind Waker, the Hero of Time defeats Gannon, then disappears and doesn't come back when Gannon does.
The timeline matches with the above.
"Doesn't make sense. In the prologue to Link to the Past, the good guys clearly won. Meanwhile, in the prologue to Wind Waker, the good guys clearly lost."
In the prologue of AlttP, the Sages and Knights of Hyrule seal Gannon away. There's no Link/Hero of Time involved.
In the prologue of Wind Waker, the Hero of Time defeats Gannon, then disappears and doesn't come back when Gannon does.
The timeline matches with the above.
@BoomingEchoes
"Well then count me in then, because I swear on the Triforce itself that the timeline existed in the early 2000's on the official Zelda website, around the time Wind Waker came out."
I remember that. People used it to deny the "slit timeline" theory later on (yeah, it existed even then) because it was lineal.
Problem is, this was a Nintendo of America thing, and they changed stuff to make it fit, like making the Zelda from Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link the same Zelda.
Nintendo of Japan has since denied it's accuracy.
"Well then count me in then, because I swear on the Triforce itself that the timeline existed in the early 2000's on the official Zelda website, around the time Wind Waker came out."
I remember that. People used it to deny the "slit timeline" theory later on (yeah, it existed even then) because it was lineal.
Problem is, this was a Nintendo of America thing, and they changed stuff to make it fit, like making the Zelda from Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link the same Zelda.
Nintendo of Japan has since denied it's accuracy.
@Bob Muir
As long as Tingle Prime doesn't punch the universe wall, I think I'll be okay with that war.
As long as Tingle Prime doesn't punch the universe wall, I think I'll be okay with that war.
A timeline was made because orcarina of time, majoras mask, and wind waker made connections to previous games and fans were confused so they needed to be fed where the rest of the games fit. LoZ series is about a legend that is told and retold in different ways, as many legends are because people change and add details across different regions.
@El Conrado
Eh, I'm just happy someone else remembers it and I don't look quite as much like a crackpot any more saying it.
As for the accuracy, accuracy (and I might be using the term/phrase wrong) is subjective. Like, Someone said it last week in general chat in TOR: Fun part about fiction is they can do whatever they want.
Even 5 years from now when the next Zelda comes out (lets hope it doesn't take that long, I hope we at least get more handheld ones quicker then that) Nintendo of Japan could deny the accuracy of this new "official" timeline and we'll all be back at square one.
Eh, I'm just happy someone else remembers it and I don't look quite as much like a crackpot any more saying it.
As for the accuracy, accuracy (and I might be using the term/phrase wrong) is subjective. Like, Someone said it last week in general chat in TOR: Fun part about fiction is they can do whatever they want.
Even 5 years from now when the next Zelda comes out (lets hope it doesn't take that long, I hope we at least get more handheld ones quicker then that) Nintendo of Japan could deny the accuracy of this new "official" timeline and we'll all be back at square one.
@maxbraff
All Zelda games have always had conections. TThe series started with a single, easy to get timeline.
Legend was first, Adventure is it's direct sequel, Link to the Past is a prequel and Link's Awakening is a sequel to LttP. Ocarina was then made as a prequel to Link to the Past and Majora's Mask as the sequel to Ocarina.
So far so good.
Then Wind Waker happaned.
All Zelda games have always had conections. TThe series started with a single, easy to get timeline.
Legend was first, Adventure is it's direct sequel, Link to the Past is a prequel and Link's Awakening is a sequel to LttP. Ocarina was then made as a prequel to Link to the Past and Majora's Mask as the sequel to Ocarina.
So far so good.
Then Wind Waker happaned.
@BoomingEchoes
I guess that after reading so many comic books, canon becomes an added bonus.
People here need to get familiarized with the word "retcon".
I guess that after reading so many comic books, canon becomes an added bonus.
People here need to get familiarized with the word "retcon".
As a person who has only beaten the first game I'd say if I were to get into LoZ now the last thing I'd want to look at was the timeline.
@theplayer131
It isn't a different future. You going into the well and all that as a kid already happened, that's how he knew the song in the future; he knew it because you played it to him in the past after learning it from him in the future, so you could go back to him in the past and play it to him, so he could teach you it in the future, etc.
By this logic, if you were just a random bystander when child Link walks by,and wait 8 years or so, Link would defeat Ganondorf as an adult. Basically, it all exists in the same universe. Except that isn't how it works for the whole thing. :( I guess in that particular instance, what he done in the past already happened, so it didn't create an alternate universe, but some other things he may have done did... Anyway sorry if some of what I said didn't make sense, I haven't completed OoT, nor have I played every game in the Zelda series, just thought I'd mention that one thing.
It isn't a different future. You going into the well and all that as a kid already happened, that's how he knew the song in the future; he knew it because you played it to him in the past after learning it from him in the future, so you could go back to him in the past and play it to him, so he could teach you it in the future, etc.
By this logic, if you were just a random bystander when child Link walks by,and wait 8 years or so, Link would defeat Ganondorf as an adult. Basically, it all exists in the same universe. Except that isn't how it works for the whole thing. :( I guess in that particular instance, what he done in the past already happened, so it didn't create an alternate universe, but some other things he may have done did... Anyway sorry if some of what I said didn't make sense, I haven't completed OoT, nor have I played every game in the Zelda series, just thought I'd mention that one thing.
@El Conrado
Damn, I think you've got it! Having read through all the comments on this post I think you have the best explanation. I don't know the whole Zelda story but I've mainly played the games around OoT which seems to be the section causing the most confusion, and I'm satisfied with your explanation.
Damn, I think you've got it! Having read through all the comments on this post I think you have the best explanation. I don't know the whole Zelda story but I've mainly played the games around OoT which seems to be the section causing the most confusion, and I'm satisfied with your explanation.
Color me surprised; there are people that actually give a fuck. I just don't think the guys who worked on the games considered it that much.
They should have just had the Futurama guys explain it for people.
They should have just had the Futurama guys explain it for people.
@jeremiahvedder
I don't think that works for ANY comic with an expansive universe. Definitively not with DC, Marvel or Image.
I don't think that works for ANY comic with an expansive universe. Definitively not with DC, Marvel or Image.
----OOOOOOOH!
Wow! I GET IT NOW!
The Hero of Time disappeared because there was only one Link! Took me all day to realize that! :)
Awesome...
Wow! I GET IT NOW!
The Hero of Time disappeared because there was only one Link! Took me all day to realize that! :)
Awesome...
Well, I am glad they explain the deal of Link "failing" now. It sounded very cop-out from the Kotaku translation.
I guess I am going to try playing all of Link to the Past now, I am ashamed to admit I have never played it fully.
I guess I am going to try playing all of Link to the Past now, I am ashamed to admit I have never played it fully.
Ok, so I've only barely looked into timeline stuff before, but since the timeline forks out at the end of ocarina, we can basically say that Ocarina has 3 endings, in a sense.
So, Link gathers the spirit stones, sits in a stone room by himself for 7 years, and then he's all grown up, starts raiding temples and all that, like we've all done many times.
But the desert temple (that's the one that requires you to be there as child and adult, no?) hasn't changed. That's why you have to go there as a child first. So at the first moment you're adult, 7 years have passed and you've never been to that temple. This proves the existence of a timeline where the hero never went there, and as such never defeated Ganon. That's ending A, or the unsuccessful one.
After the time travel shenanigans, Link's an adult, everyone is allright and everything is cool. Zelda sends link back in time, and she lives in a world without him. This is ending B, which sets up Ganondorf's return (as described in Wind Waker's opening) and the "adult" timeline.
Once Link returns to being a kid, Majora's mask happens. The world he lives in is ending C.
I think the easiest way to think about it is that ending A is the "Story of Hyrule without a Hero". B is the "Story of "Hyrule after the Hero". And C is the "Story of Hyrule's hero".
Does that make sense/Do I have that right?
So, Link gathers the spirit stones, sits in a stone room by himself for 7 years, and then he's all grown up, starts raiding temples and all that, like we've all done many times.
But the desert temple (that's the one that requires you to be there as child and adult, no?) hasn't changed. That's why you have to go there as a child first. So at the first moment you're adult, 7 years have passed and you've never been to that temple. This proves the existence of a timeline where the hero never went there, and as such never defeated Ganon. That's ending A, or the unsuccessful one.
After the time travel shenanigans, Link's an adult, everyone is allright and everything is cool. Zelda sends link back in time, and she lives in a world without him. This is ending B, which sets up Ganondorf's return (as described in Wind Waker's opening) and the "adult" timeline.
Once Link returns to being a kid, Majora's mask happens. The world he lives in is ending C.
I think the easiest way to think about it is that ending A is the "Story of Hyrule without a Hero". B is the "Story of "Hyrule after the Hero". And C is the "Story of Hyrule's hero".
Does that make sense/Do I have that right?
@Roager
Yes, I think you've got it right. At least your post is the first post I actually understand without having doubts if the connections you made were right.
Good job!
And it all makes sense now!
Yes, I think you've got it right. At least your post is the first post I actually understand without having doubts if the connections you made were right.
Good job!
And it all makes sense now!
@Roager
I think that's about right?
To me its just the boiling point of Link jumping forward in time.
Branch A is the timeline for when child link disappears. No child link, no one to make things better. Its the future that "happens" on the contengency that Child Link never reappeared. Sages do his dirty work, and the SNES/NES world happens.
Branch B is what happens to child link when he returns from killing Gannon. Maj's mask, and stuff happens. no worry about the future, because that's all been handled nipping G-Man before he goes full pigman.
Branch C is the world where Child Link (no adult link) puts and end to Ganondorf and leaves town forever to go back an be Child Link again. Because there's only one Link, that world does not have a Link anymore. The Hero of Time effectively disappears as Child Link goes back and Majora's Mask happens.
So there's only one ending to OoT, but there are three timelines (That Nintendo is bothering to flesh out) that happen as a result of Link's timejump.
I love this stuff!
I think that's about right?
To me its just the boiling point of Link jumping forward in time.
Branch A is the timeline for when child link disappears. No child link, no one to make things better. Its the future that "happens" on the contengency that Child Link never reappeared. Sages do his dirty work, and the SNES/NES world happens.
Branch B is what happens to child link when he returns from killing Gannon. Maj's mask, and stuff happens. no worry about the future, because that's all been handled nipping G-Man before he goes full pigman.
Branch C is the world where Child Link (no adult link) puts and end to Ganondorf and leaves town forever to go back an be Child Link again. Because there's only one Link, that world does not have a Link anymore. The Hero of Time effectively disappears as Child Link goes back and Majora's Mask happens.
So there's only one ending to OoT, but there are three timelines (That Nintendo is bothering to flesh out) that happen as a result of Link's timejump.
I love this stuff!
@tubatic
No there are two endings. You kind off contradicted yourself ;p. There's the ending where the sages do his dirty work. And the ending where Link does the dirty work.
No there are two endings. You kind off contradicted yourself ;p. There's the ending where the sages do his dirty work. And the ending where Link does the dirty work.
@grovna
Enh, I don't so much consider that an ending, more an off shoot. Its a nerdy detail, to be sure.
When you play OoT, it has a story conclusion that happens. Links saves day, goes back to own time.
That first branch is less about an ending and more about what happens to Child LInk's world as a valid "What-If" scenario. If you consider time as a series of strings that branch out based solely on its reality at any given moment, Branch A is just flatly a world where Child LInk is not that after his jump. If Branch C is what happens to the world after Adult Link leaves. Branch as is what happens after Child Link leaves (and simply doesn't comeback)...
I mean I guess you could call it an "ending", but its not something designed/branched explicitly by OoT's game play.
/HEY LADY
Enh, I don't so much consider that an ending, more an off shoot. Its a nerdy detail, to be sure.
When you play OoT, it has a story conclusion that happens. Links saves day, goes back to own time.
That first branch is less about an ending and more about what happens to Child LInk's world as a valid "What-If" scenario. If you consider time as a series of strings that branch out based solely on its reality at any given moment, Branch A is just flatly a world where Child LInk is not that after his jump. If Branch C is what happens to the world after Adult Link leaves. Branch as is what happens after Child Link leaves (and simply doesn't comeback)...
I mean I guess you could call it an "ending", but its not something designed/branched explicitly by OoT's game play.
/HEY LADY
Tubatic: I don't think it matters whether he reappeared or not. If link emerges from the temple in a world where he never went to that Desert Temple as a child, he's doomed to fail.
Wait. If the point of Ocarina was to awaken the sages, then how did they seal Ganondorf without him in the unsuccessful line?
Wait. If the point of Ocarina was to awaken the sages, then how did they seal Ganondorf without him in the unsuccessful line?
There's a big gap in The Sky Era, so perhaps up next is a Skyward Sword sequel/successor. Don't have a Wii so I dunno if that's possible or practical though.
lol we probably can create a timeline for all the video games known to mankind. just create the 223412341095723094823059710923 parallel branches
What I like about this "3 Branches" idea is that it fit thematically with the legend as a whole:
The Triforce breaks in 3 parts, so the timeline does as well, and in each timeline it grants the wish of the people holding their respective piece.
In Timeline A, Gannon rules the Golden Land.
In Timeline B, Link becomes a hero on his own.
In Timeline C, Zelda rebuilds Hyrule.
The Triforce breaks in 3 parts, so the timeline does as well, and in each timeline it grants the wish of the people holding their respective piece.
In Timeline A, Gannon rules the Golden Land.
In Timeline B, Link becomes a hero on his own.
In Timeline C, Zelda rebuilds Hyrule.
Hmmm Link should really just stop killing these evil gods and instead focus on burning all Pheonix down's in Hyrule.....
El Conrado: I was proud of myself for deducing all this cool stuff, and then you outclass me with that. I applaud and resent you, you magnificent bastard.
Three time lines
Three triforce pieces
Makes sense i guess but im disappointed that Links Awakening isnt a direct sequel to Majoras Mask.
Three triforce pieces
Makes sense i guess but im disappointed that Links Awakening isnt a direct sequel to Majoras Mask.
Well, I guess I'll have to go find Ocarina of Time and make sure I fail to win so we can get the best games.
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