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5:00 PM on 06.16.2011
I can dig it. Thanks for the update. People will still bitch and accuse but, none the less, thank you.
I wonder how these "myths" got started and why they're being propagated... that would be a much more entertaining read.
10/10
I bought Deadly Premonition on word of mouth ALONE. The score was a 10, but the text was even more important in understanding why. One of the best examples of why the score might not even matter. Also I think it was literally the game to be reviewed after the 4.5 debacle. Which. Was. HILARIOUS.
I bought Deadly Premonition on word of mouth ALONE. The score was a 10, but the text was even more important in understanding why. One of the best examples of why the score might not even matter. Also I think it was literally the game to be reviewed after the 4.5 debacle. Which. Was. HILARIOUS.
I'm sorry could you repeat yourself, I only pay attention to the glowing red "below average critic" numbers
I think it's kinda sad fact of reviewing that this guide has to be published again and again. You'd hope that people would just get it and live with the fact that they might not agree with every review they read online. That being said, it's good to see Dtoid's policies made totally clear.
Typo
You spelled Mantra wrong.
FIX IT FATTY.
Also, I'm going to permacopy this link for every review hater to read.
(Destructoid=Joystq. Two stellar groups with two great communities.
But destructoid has Holmes and the Bennets. Dtoid wins!)
You spelled Mantra wrong.
FIX IT FATTY.
Also, I'm going to permacopy this link for every review hater to read.
(Destructoid=Joystq. Two stellar groups with two great communities.
But destructoid has Holmes and the Bennets. Dtoid wins!)
It's not the negative review scores it's the sensationalist opinion of Jim Sterling that draws in people. Recent example the decent game Duke Nukem Forever was crucified by Jim and there was probably an influx of people who came to read the review and lol.
I want to be a pro reviewer so I think I'll be controversial, over the top and edgy to be cool.
I want to be a pro reviewer so I think I'll be controversial, over the top and edgy to be cool.
Thanks Jim. It sucks that this has to be said every year for people who just don't get it, but the fact that Dtoid uses a FULL 10 point scale brings me back here. Dtoid reviewers, keep being awesome.
Haters gonna hate.
Haters gonna hate.
People who troll game reviewers for low scores need to get a life! If you don't like the review try it yourself (like im doing right now with DNF). I mean half of my most favorite games are trashed by reviews. But I don't give a damn and just play what games I wanna play
I think I'm one of the few people who prefer Destructoid's approach to reviewing than other sites. I mean, you go on any other site, and they slam Dynasty Warriors, a series I love. I come to Destructoid and it's reviewed by someone who also loves the franchise, the daring Mr Sterling, and I feel I get a fairer and more relevant to me review because of it.
Even if there's a reviewer who I know doesn't tend to like games I like, I can still read their reviews but with a pinch of salt, knowing that if I'm interested in the game then I should still check it out.
Whereas at Gamespot, IGN and the like I feel they're more just mindless drones who are looking for games to just tick a certain criteria so they can give them high scores.
Even if there's a reviewer who I know doesn't tend to like games I like, I can still read their reviews but with a pinch of salt, knowing that if I'm interested in the game then I should still check it out.
Whereas at Gamespot, IGN and the like I feel they're more just mindless drones who are looking for games to just tick a certain criteria so they can give them high scores.
Fair points, all. My only complaint with Dtoid reviews, and with all due respect Jim this one goes to you personally, is that when you DO decide to review negatively (not saying you do it unfairly often, but it does obviously happen) I find your tone to be somewhat harsher than I think it strictly needs to be.
I understand you pride yourself on not pulling punches. That's fine. But I find there to be a fine line between brutal honesty and unnecessary roughness. It's your writing style and you obviously have every right to say whatever you like. You don't need my permission for that. I just offer the constructive criticism as a counterpoint to your article.
I understand you pride yourself on not pulling punches. That's fine. But I find there to be a fine line between brutal honesty and unnecessary roughness. It's your writing style and you obviously have every right to say whatever you like. You don't need my permission for that. I just offer the constructive criticism as a counterpoint to your article.
Where is the review at the bottom? I don't know if I should be happy or upset over this article?! I like those stats in comparison and those myths are hilarious!
I really think people scroll to the bottom and then squeeze their capri sun all over their keyboads! They don't even bother to read the bulk of the message.
I love Dtoid, never stop being.
I really think people scroll to the bottom and then squeeze their capri sun all over their keyboads! They don't even bother to read the bulk of the message.
I love Dtoid, never stop being.
MAAAAAAANNNNNTTTAA RAAAY.
My house door is open, Jim. Enter when ready. I'm dripping with anticipation.
My house door is open, Jim. Enter when ready. I'm dripping with anticipation.
After defending Jim in the parody thread, I'm back on the warpath.
In your first two paragraphs, you claim to use the whole range of scores. You also claim here (and elsewhere) that the scores have certain meanings. 6's are alright, 5's are average, 4's are below average, etc.
However, according to your summary statistics (which I've read myself on metacritic, although it does help that you have them here as well), the average game ACTUALLY receives a 72%. How can 5 be average if the site average is over a 7? How can you claim to use the whole spectrum when you have the same upward bias as every other gaming site (including supposedly evil sites like IGN and Gamespot).
"It is our manta that reviews are subjective. The ideal of the "objective" review is nonsense. That would be more like a manual or a list of specifications." - If it is subjective, then you should add scores. I guess I get the whole "we need to get exposure!" idea, but it's not really a justification. It's like saying "I stole the food, so I could eat." It's a utility justification rather than moral. In an article where you're trying to defend your practices as.. well.. defensible, this doesn't really help your case.
In general, if your reviews are essentially just personal blogs about each game, you shouldn't use scores. If you do use scores, you should ATTEMPT to make them meaningful in a generalizable sort of way (imagine that?!). In other words, when I see a 9 on Dtoid, I should be able to say "oh, that's a good game." Instead, I have to make sure Jim isn't reviewing Dynasty Warriors, Chad is reviewing anything cute or indie, Holmes isn't reviewing a Nintendo game, etc. etc.
Listen, I understand objectivity isn't simple or easy. It would almost, dare I say, require an Reviews Editor who tries to do their job. All I desire is the attempt, which Dtoid is pretty @#$%ing far away from.
At the end of the day, Dtoid defends low scores by saying they use the whole spectrum, which they do not, and by citing subjectivity, which should clearly indicate that there shouldn't be any scores at all. It's same bullshit different day.
/rant
In your first two paragraphs, you claim to use the whole range of scores. You also claim here (and elsewhere) that the scores have certain meanings. 6's are alright, 5's are average, 4's are below average, etc.
However, according to your summary statistics (which I've read myself on metacritic, although it does help that you have them here as well), the average game ACTUALLY receives a 72%. How can 5 be average if the site average is over a 7? How can you claim to use the whole spectrum when you have the same upward bias as every other gaming site (including supposedly evil sites like IGN and Gamespot).
"It is our manta that reviews are subjective. The ideal of the "objective" review is nonsense. That would be more like a manual or a list of specifications." - If it is subjective, then you should add scores. I guess I get the whole "we need to get exposure!" idea, but it's not really a justification. It's like saying "I stole the food, so I could eat." It's a utility justification rather than moral. In an article where you're trying to defend your practices as.. well.. defensible, this doesn't really help your case.
In general, if your reviews are essentially just personal blogs about each game, you shouldn't use scores. If you do use scores, you should ATTEMPT to make them meaningful in a generalizable sort of way (imagine that?!). In other words, when I see a 9 on Dtoid, I should be able to say "oh, that's a good game." Instead, I have to make sure Jim isn't reviewing Dynasty Warriors, Chad is reviewing anything cute or indie, Holmes isn't reviewing a Nintendo game, etc. etc.
Listen, I understand objectivity isn't simple or easy. It would almost, dare I say, require an Reviews Editor who tries to do their job. All I desire is the attempt, which Dtoid is pretty @#$%ing far away from.
At the end of the day, Dtoid defends low scores by saying they use the whole spectrum, which they do not, and by citing subjectivity, which should clearly indicate that there shouldn't be any scores at all. It's same bullshit different day.
/rant
Keep on being Dtoid. You can't please everyone, but know that you have people that appreciate your efforts here to bring complete reviews for wary buyers...
I'd like to add that it's also tiresome to get hate mail for giving a game a "high" score.
People are still mad at me for voicing my positive opinion of Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop.
People are still mad at me for voicing my positive opinion of Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop.
Keep doing what you guys do best. I love this site and I think you have the best reviews around, even if I don't agree with them half the time.
"It is our manta that reviews are subjective. The ideal of the "objective" review is nonsense."
I disagree with this. I think a GOOD review needs to have a certain amount of objectivity, or it becomes meaningless to anyone but the reviewer themselves.
For example, I don't like platformers. Never really have, even when they were by far the dominate genre in video gaming. But if I were asked to review a Mario game, I wouldn't simply say, "this game sucks, it's a lot of platforming, it gets a 2.5". I would try my best to be relatively objective about which aspects I thought worked and those which didn't.
A totally subjective review would have no reasoning behind the opinions, no explanations. If you want other people to be able to relate to what you are saying, to understand WHY you hold a particular opinion, then there needs to be some measure of objective analysis involved.
I disagree with this. I think a GOOD review needs to have a certain amount of objectivity, or it becomes meaningless to anyone but the reviewer themselves.
For example, I don't like platformers. Never really have, even when they were by far the dominate genre in video gaming. But if I were asked to review a Mario game, I wouldn't simply say, "this game sucks, it's a lot of platforming, it gets a 2.5". I would try my best to be relatively objective about which aspects I thought worked and those which didn't.
A totally subjective review would have no reasoning behind the opinions, no explanations. If you want other people to be able to relate to what you are saying, to understand WHY you hold a particular opinion, then there needs to be some measure of objective analysis involved.
Tristrix:
You certainly make a point. There IS a line between criticizing a game with brutal honesty and tearing it to shreds in an unhelpful way. I am fully aware that my tone is seen as "unfair" to some people, but that's simply the way I write -- I write all reviews with a very genuine passion, because I adore reviewing games and I put pretty much everything I have into them, more than any other type of article.
When it comes to reviews, I'm all about the cereal business. I might crack a little joke within the review, but the review itself is genuine and heartfelt. That may mean I am sometimes pretty damn vicious, but it's not because I am trying to put on an act. I'm just trying to express my thoughts on a game as genuinely as possible.
If that makes sense. I could be talking bollocks.
You certainly make a point. There IS a line between criticizing a game with brutal honesty and tearing it to shreds in an unhelpful way. I am fully aware that my tone is seen as "unfair" to some people, but that's simply the way I write -- I write all reviews with a very genuine passion, because I adore reviewing games and I put pretty much everything I have into them, more than any other type of article.
When it comes to reviews, I'm all about the cereal business. I might crack a little joke within the review, but the review itself is genuine and heartfelt. That may mean I am sometimes pretty damn vicious, but it's not because I am trying to put on an act. I'm just trying to express my thoughts on a game as genuinely as possible.
If that makes sense. I could be talking bollocks.
All looks good to me. I'll never agree with every single review but im more than happy with the majority. Keep up the fine work.
@killias2: "It would almost, dare I say, require an Reviews Editor who tries to do their job."
That was a petty insult. You might have had a good argument, but you ruined it with that bullshit.
That was a petty insult. You might have had a good argument, but you ruined it with that bullshit.
But what about the fact that Destructoid actually gives good scores to video games that aren't Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto? WHAT ABOUT THAT BULLSHIT!?
I often argue against a 10 point scale and think reviews should be out of four or five, but with sites like Metacritic, people will still bitch. I think this is one of the best and most concise review guides I've seen for a while.
I'd give it a 9.67437. Some may say it deserved only a 9.23434 but I think that's a bit harsh.
I'd give it a 9.67437. Some may say it deserved only a 9.23434 but I think that's a bit harsh.
People take opinions way too seriously these days. They also have this misconception that reviewers try to force opinions on people, where it is actually the complete opposite. The people always try to make the reviewer change their opinion, because for whatever reason it's scary to be an individual these days. People need to fuck off and let the reviewers say what they want, because the reviewers sure as hell let the people say what they want. I mean, is that not what this site is about? Everyone able to have their own opinion without the fear of someone tearing it limb from limb? Because I sure see a lot of it.
I think the reason you may receive hate mail is likely the tone and more brash content than most reviewers put into their work. Certainly many reviewers get nailed for "being paid by Company X" as part of hate mail, or have their sexual orientations called into question when someone has a disagreement. Welcome to the Internet, sadly.
However, your reviews and stories in particular tend to feature more vulgarity, sexual descriptors and "creative" imagery. It's a very divisive way to write, but then again, it's also why you've gotten the reputation and following that you have. Like it or lump it, it's the Sterling methodology.
I admit, you've crossed the line quite a few times in my view. However, I keep reading simply because you have the balls to do so.
However, your reviews and stories in particular tend to feature more vulgarity, sexual descriptors and "creative" imagery. It's a very divisive way to write, but then again, it's also why you've gotten the reputation and following that you have. Like it or lump it, it's the Sterling methodology.
I admit, you've crossed the line quite a few times in my view. However, I keep reading simply because you have the balls to do so.
"However, according to your summary statistics (which I've read myself on metacritic, although it does help that you have them here as well), the average game ACTUALLY receives a 72%. How can 5 be average if the site average is over a 7? How can you claim to use the whole spectrum when you have the same upward bias as every other gaming site (including supposedly evil sites like IGN and Gamespot)."
I think you're really misrepresenting a fair few facts here. For a start, our scoring system does NOT say five is "average." We say it is "mediocre." It's slap bang in the middle, neither good nor bad. It's tepid and uninteresting.
You also need to remember that we do not review every videogame ever made. In fact, as many reviews as we do write, we still only touch upon a fraction of the releases that year. There are many 5-worthy games that do not get reviewed BECAUSE they are mediocre and easily overlooked.
You would have a point IF we review every single game released in a given year. We do not.
I think you're really misrepresenting a fair few facts here. For a start, our scoring system does NOT say five is "average." We say it is "mediocre." It's slap bang in the middle, neither good nor bad. It's tepid and uninteresting.
You also need to remember that we do not review every videogame ever made. In fact, as many reviews as we do write, we still only touch upon a fraction of the releases that year. There are many 5-worthy games that do not get reviewed BECAUSE they are mediocre and easily overlooked.
You would have a point IF we review every single game released in a given year. We do not.
I still don't like this whole mentality of using the whole point scale.
Reeks too much of a bell curve.
Reeks too much of a bell curve.
@killias
An average score for a game and an average score of a game review site, are completely different things.
If Dtoid's average score is a 72, then the site as a whole thinks there are a lot of games that are better than average. Which means good things, that the gaming industry is doing all they can to make quality games. If the average score was for that of an average game, I'd be pissed because there would be far too many mundane games being released.
An average score for a game and an average score of a game review site, are completely different things.
If Dtoid's average score is a 72, then the site as a whole thinks there are a lot of games that are better than average. Which means good things, that the gaming industry is doing all they can to make quality games. If the average score was for that of an average game, I'd be pissed because there would be far too many mundane games being released.
Oh and this:
"It would almost, dare I say, require an Reviews Editor who tries to do their job."
You are more than welcome to come to my office and do it for a week.
"It would almost, dare I say, require an Reviews Editor who tries to do their job."
You are more than welcome to come to my office and do it for a week.
@Jim
Fair enough. I'm passionate about gaming too, and I'm certainly in no position to lecture you about how you do your job. I only bring it up because, honestly, your DNF review made me feel bad for the people that made it. I cringed hard.
It's not that you were wrong, or even that you were out of line. It's just that I know a lot of good, talented people worked for a very long time on that steaming load, and it seems poised to go down in history as the next Daikatana (remember John Romero?). I mean, this is the game that brought down one of the most storied and adored developers in gaming history. It's a goddamn tragedy, and even Yahoo picked up the story on the main page and quoted your review.
So... yeah. Point being, the whole DNF fiasco breaks my fucking heart, legit. I just don't want to kick them when they're down, ya know?
Fair enough. I'm passionate about gaming too, and I'm certainly in no position to lecture you about how you do your job. I only bring it up because, honestly, your DNF review made me feel bad for the people that made it. I cringed hard.
It's not that you were wrong, or even that you were out of line. It's just that I know a lot of good, talented people worked for a very long time on that steaming load, and it seems poised to go down in history as the next Daikatana (remember John Romero?). I mean, this is the game that brought down one of the most storied and adored developers in gaming history. It's a goddamn tragedy, and even Yahoo picked up the story on the main page and quoted your review.
So... yeah. Point being, the whole DNF fiasco breaks my fucking heart, legit. I just don't want to kick them when they're down, ya know?
dtoid reviewer tastes don't seem to align with mine on a pretty regular basis, but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with the reviews. reading the actual review that accompanies the score informs me well. don't ever stop, baby foot
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