Truthiness.

I think gamers tend to assume that because games like Farmville don't have the same budgets as games like Call of Duty or what have you, comparing the two in terms of how we pay for them is moot point. But ultimately you're right; they're both games that people have gotten thousands (millions?) of hours of entertainment from, so why pretend one is a more legitimate "game" than the other?

I would argue that the people who play Halo and CoD are just as stupid as the "casual gamers".

I would also argue that people spending money on Farmville is no different from people buying map packs in CoD - both are optional and are a measure of what the player feels the experience is worth.

Oh and just because something is popular doesn't make it good.

Also

Console gamers are the stupid ones.

/flameshield

@Monodi: IMO, it's not the fact that you buy DLC that would make you stupid. It's those people who laugh at farmville players for spending money on those extras, then turn right around and buy DLC like it's perfectly acceptable.

Those who don't make such a distinction between farmville purchases and DLC purchases probably aren't so stupid.

oh ok

When did CoD and Halo players become hardcore?
I think casual gamers are... sad.. Kinda
Here we have a new art-form just waiting to be explored, but these people limit themselves to massproduced crap. There are loads of different genres, there's something for everyone and more and more games are released (almost) every day.

Do you think a person who only watch Disney shorts is smart?
Probably not

I play games to experience a story, which is why I find RPGs such as Mass Effect and Final Fantasy so enjoyable. In 10 years, will these casual gamers be saying "Jeeze remember that time I gave Bob that cow? That was such a great plot twist!" Hell, I doubt anyone will remember the Farmvilles and Mafia Wars of today. While these games are free to play and enjoy as long as one would want, in the end, the experiences will still not be the same and people will not remember these titles like the FF6s, Chrono Triggers, and Golden Eyes of yesteryear simply because these games have touched peoples lives whereas the Facebook games are just a way to waste time until the next season of American Idol starts.

This immediately became less about casual gamers in general and more specifically about Farmville players.

People who play Facebook games aren't the only kind of casual gamer. Look at all of the shovelware on the DS and Wii. Now, I love both of these systems for the awesome games they do have, but there's a hueg amount of shit available as well. And people actually buy these games and play them.

I'd also argue that most games on the iPhone or iPad are also casual, but that's a different debate.

Until I start seeing fanboys amongst the casual gamers I would be inclined to agree. The fact that I have never seen a single person arguing to the teeth that Farmville (or whatever) is better than such and such else pretty much makes it a fact that they are smarter than us. Oh and yeah, eff all the people who spend stupid money on stupid dlc. People complain about Bad Companies maps but shit, I don't have to spend more money to keep enjoying that game with the rest of the community.

@syphonicsniper: Different ppl play games for different reasons. For some it's the experience more so than the story. If you've read the articles Jim and others have written about frontierville, you'd realize that sometimes you can have quite the experience playing these games.

Destructoid's Frontierville articles have made me seriously consider trying it out for myself, and this video is just further evidence that there is something special about "casual games" that regular gamers can't grasp. I'm all about broadening my gaming horizons, so I'm looking forward to what I will experience when I give it (or a similar game) a try.

You're totally right. Then again, I can't remember the last time I bought a title at full retail price.

@king kong five - The important difference isn't in the budgets. It's in things like complexity, competitiveness, and narrative.

I wouldn't call casual gamers stupid. Casual gamers are, in terms of the hobby of playing video games, unsophisticated. They play casual games because that's all they really know how to play, and a large percent of them aren't interested in ever playing anything more complex. They click on things on their screen, they see cute figures moving about doing things, their level numbers go up to tell them their doing well, and they never have to face a "GAME OVER" or "YOU LOSE" screen. It's an ego stroke, it makes them feel good, and their friends probably like it, too.

We can't look down on these people, because every "hardcore" gamer was a "casual" gamer at one point. At some point in the life of every person reading this site, FarmVille was the most complex game that person could handle. Of course, for most of us, that would be when we were little kids, and since we grew up playing games, we soon grew out of that. And some people, even adults, playing FarmVille now will want a more challenging or more fulfilling experience and move up to something closer to what we'd actually call a video game.

Most won't, though. And they'll continue to be entertained, to some level or another, by FarmVille and its like, most of which they can play for free if they want. Does that make them smarter than us, those of us who can't really appreciate FarmVille anymore and need the challenge, need the complexity, need the narrative of "actual video games"? I don't think so. While "they" might be getting some level of base enjoyment out of their farm-clicking, there's really no question that we're getting the better experience. We are the ones who get to test our reflexes or tactical thinking or grand strategy. We are the ones experiencing narratives that we feel a part of, and in some cases can even affect. We are the ones testing and sharpening our skills against others.

Is all that worth $60 a game, when we could be playing FarmVille for free? Easily. And some of those FarmVille players will eventually come to think so, too.

I think the reason why many hardcore gamers look down on games like Farmville and such is that they don't really (at the risk of sounding arrogant here) advance the medium. We have games like Mass Effect and such that try to make these great stories and draw the player in, whereas Farmville just seems like it has no purpose, though some could argue all videogames are like that lol. Now I haven't played Farmville, so I'm just assuming.

Also, WHERE THE F*** DO YOU FIND THESE PICTURES JIM.

I love how people consider what other people do with their spare time to be a measure of intelligence. I mean, it's not really your choice to like things, it just is. Everybody is different. Everybody was raised differently.

My mother and father spend their evenings watching movies and TV shows, many of which are of questionable quality. My best friend and his girlfriend host Jersey Shore viewings at their place with almost everyone I know.

Does this make them stupid? Of course not. It's just the way they are. There are a multitude of reasons for stuff like this, with lack of time and stress levels being the two biggest culprits IMO. Most people just don't care enough to seek out better experiences whether it be in games, film, whatever.

How do I know this? Because shortly after I had kids I started acting the same way, spending nights poisoning my brain with low-brow shit that was easy to consume. It's not ideal, but whatever. I'll live with it. I know I'm not stupid, that's good enough for me.

I like to be involved in a story where I can see what my actions (or the character's) do.

I like it when my reflexes are put to use when I play a fighting game or a shooter.

I like it when I need a strategy to take down foes without losing any zerglings.

I like it when at the end of the day, I can put down my controller and think about "what will be different" the next time I play.


I really agree with you, Mr. Sterling, and since you've asked reasons why I'm "better" than a casual gamer, I wrote why I play games.

I think I have better reasons to play games.

I play games to learn things and to be told a nice little story.

I don't play for "mindless" fun or for simple pleasure.


I love you so much, Jim. I really do.

Your point is right, but to a hardcore gamer, they're getting far more out of the AAA titles than they ever will out of Farmville or Fish World. It's a higher level of gaming experience that costs more, takes more talent, and takes more time, to produce than a flash game on Facebook.

Not to mention actual games are more complex and require more out of the player; Be that thought or strategy, quick trigger fingers and good aiming skills, or simply more time for what seems like a better reward.

Graphics are actually a contender here as well. While normally Gameplay > Graphics, in this argument, Graphics > Graphics. Farmville looks like a children's cartoon book (Which it has to appeal to), while AAA titles typically have more detailed or real-looking environments.

In the end, the casual gamer might be "smarter", but from a hardcore gamer's perspective...They really aren't getting much. It's unrealistic to think that hardcore gamers could suddenly expect to pay nothing for big AAA projects. Farmville is simple and repetitive. Real video games can be so much more than that, and THAT's why they cost money.

Also...Farmville's just STUPID.

Also again...A smart gamer can spend 60 bucks on a game that lasts him/her three years. That's 20 bucks a year. I know Farmville idiots who spend that much a WEEK.

You're right on all points. Look at us, spending $80+ on preorders for games (and shitty bonuses. And no, LBP2 does not count) we haven't played and only buying it because people tell us it's going to be bad ass. And how often are we wrong? Or $15 Map Packs... or buying parts of games that should've been in there to begin w/, or unlock codes for content on the disc... when these people get just as much out of their free games as we do. Maybe even more...

I may be wrong, but I think you brought up a decent argument against Farmville in your own video. Depth, Farmville lacks it. I played it myself for a while, but after a week there really doesn't feel like there is much left to it. Other than that, I find it silly that Zynga still calls it a beta. It feels like they're using the word "beta" as an excuse for the lack of depth and for not charging to play.

I wouldn't say that the casual market is playing smarter than the hardcore market. Sure, the hardcore market is paying more, but they are paying for more polished material(though obviously, that isn't always what they get). While I understand the argument that hardcore gamers are forking over $60 just to get access, I also understand the idea and importance two things to hardcore gamers: Demos and reviews. Those two things help to decrease the risk that the investment of $60 proposes.

I do see the point though, and it is a disturbing one. A question though, since I can just go to my local park and watch a game of baseball between kids for free, does that mean I'm playing it smarter than hardcore sports enthusiasts? I'm not paying that huge fee for a ticket to a professional game or for cable television, but I am watching a significantly less sophisticated game.

If casuals are satisfied by rudimentary graphics, no story, and zero challenge then by all means, they should be playing facebook games and Nintendo Wii. I only wish I was so easily amused.

The only thing that justifies DLC is Rock Band and Guitar Hero... The other games are ust incompleted games that or the devplover went Lazy or they just want the Money...

"Here is a solid, convincing argument Jim: I Don't like Farmville. There is no story, there is no exciting gameplay."

Does fucking Tetris have a story? No, but people still consider it a game, don't they? You can make up all these BS excuses all you want to, but people playing casual games are just as much of a gamer as you are. Sure they're not as passionate about games as you, which is why they're described as casual, but they're still playing games none the less. So why are gamers, hating on other gamers? Its just stupid!

The reason that farmville isn't as valid as games such as Dragon age is purely from production value, and overall meaning. There are arguments that you could make fro games such as portal, braid, and others being artistic. You can't make a case for farmville being art. You just can't. Farmville flat out is not art, in and of itself. On the otherhand, Dragon Age: Origins is a form of art, because it's moral choice system allows players to learn about themselves based on the situations it puts them under.

Ya dumb cunt.

@TonyPonce That's the thing. They don't care.

Should it be shooting terrorists/aliens or planting beans, it doesn't matter.

Decent stories and originality doesn't matter to them, that's why I don't like casual gamers.