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I love the thumbnails of all the other videos. PLAGIARISM looks like Jim is calling me a homosexual reptilian, the Zelda video thumbnail looks like he just thwarted me in a freestyle rap battle.
Good points. Over-the-top action crazyness is what makes video games awesome. Anyone who thinks that war is anything like Call of Duty would have you believe is a blithering idiot.
Watch Saving Private Ryan. That's about as realistic as it gets, and that's still Hollywooded up for the peeplz.
Watch Saving Private Ryan. That's about as realistic as it gets, and that's still Hollywooded up for the peeplz.
I'm pretty desensitized, 4chan having been a big help from years past. Therefore, I wasn't shocked or disturbed at all.
Yes! I'm so sick of gratuitous violence and was desensitised to it last generation, never mind this one and it's just boring now.
Yea I'm not into realistic violence. I like that shit over the top. There needs to be eyeballs flying, blood splattering, flesh exploding, organs jumping... and that's just the melee weapons.
Something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be. Desensitized to everything, what became of subtlety?
Jim, I really like what your trying to do here.This is a very contemporary debate and it's good that your willing to put your message across. I do however think that the video would benefit from a little editing.
Anyway,
agreeing with your angle I also think that a lot of the problem comes from the fact that many of these gamers haven't actually experienced extreme real-life violence. So, their introduction to this type of violence is via videogames. Videogames DO glamorize violence. Like Jim says, Hollywood glamorizes the punch with an enchanting "bosh* sound just as videogames add visceral drama to war. I feel that when these game playing individuals go on gun toting violent rampages, that perhaps their expectations of such actions have been tainted and glorified. Its not until such a person has committed a violent crime that they get a realization of their actions.
Anyway,
agreeing with your angle I also think that a lot of the problem comes from the fact that many of these gamers haven't actually experienced extreme real-life violence. So, their introduction to this type of violence is via videogames. Videogames DO glamorize violence. Like Jim says, Hollywood glamorizes the punch with an enchanting "bosh* sound just as videogames add visceral drama to war. I feel that when these game playing individuals go on gun toting violent rampages, that perhaps their expectations of such actions have been tainted and glorified. Its not until such a person has committed a violent crime that they get a realization of their actions.
I remember seeing the Bud Dwyer footage on Faces of Death when I was a teenager and it not bothering me a lick. Glad to see it again and realize its pretty damn awful. Suppose that means I'm a real live grow up on some level. Great video. Real violence is nothing like movies or games. It's like watching Sonny Chiba's Street Fighter then watching two black belts fight. They are two completely different things. For me, its that complete lack or realism that makes it ok for me to watch. If the violence were too realistic I wouldn't want to see it as it would just make me sad and angry.
I very seldom leave comments on many sites, but thank you for making the points you did in this video Jim.
I was deeply disturbed by that video footage of that man shooting himself (I have seen it before) and real violence makes me cringe while I'm able to laugh at the ridiculous over the top violence in games.
I don't think I could ever laugh at that footage you showed or any real violence for that matter. Those are REAL people, not polygons and pixels
I was deeply disturbed by that video footage of that man shooting himself (I have seen it before) and real violence makes me cringe while I'm able to laugh at the ridiculous over the top violence in games.
I don't think I could ever laugh at that footage you showed or any real violence for that matter. Those are REAL people, not polygons and pixels
I skipped past the inserted footage.. But even just hearing Jim talking about it made me feel uneasy.
I've seen that footage before a couple months ago, so I knew what to expect of course it made me feel desensitized and terrible but I'm pretty sure it's do to a repeat viewing. Very good point to make, there is a humongous disconnect between real world violence and fantasy violence. I think people get up in arms about fantasy violence is because most of leave in a protected society and have never had to experience real life violence.
On reading her article, it seems she hasn't spent much time actually playing shooter games or she would very quickly realize that they are just GAMES - nothing more and nothing less. Running around and firing dualwielding akimbo shotguns is no more realistic doing it in a game or seeing Arnie do it in a movie - it doesn't work in real life. We all know that, we don't care.
I don't think she realizes that right now, shooter games are some of the few online populated team sports. There are clans, tournaments, strategies, practice sessions... it's much closer to playing hockey or football than it is to actual war.
Her statement about men being "more interested" in shooter games also seems erroneous. I personally think that this is simply a reflection of our culture (and again, men's sports are also more popular than women's sports). Over time we are seeing more and more women attracted to shooter games because of the teamwork and social values - and not because we can kill people in a more realistic way than playing an RPG and killing them with a big ass sword or fireball.
I don't know.. but I think if I was a paid journalist I might be inclined to at least go on some of the forums for these games and check out what people are talking about (and see all the clan pages... of people playing the game as a social/competitive outlet)... or even ask the question of why people play shooter games. I think the answer might surprise her and I highly doubt it's anything to do with the male subverted instincts of being a hunter/gatherer... or wanting to anonymously live out some form of real war fantasy. Playing shooter games is one of the most social form of gaming currently available. It can be just fun with friends or can be competitive with friends... but it's rarely a lone wolf kinda thing.
... and no, we don't want realism. I've often said that "realism" in a war game would mean driving around for endlessly boring hours on patrol, then hitting a roadside bomb and dying instantly... with no option to respawn.
A very interesting Jimquisition!!
I don't think she realizes that right now, shooter games are some of the few online populated team sports. There are clans, tournaments, strategies, practice sessions... it's much closer to playing hockey or football than it is to actual war.
Her statement about men being "more interested" in shooter games also seems erroneous. I personally think that this is simply a reflection of our culture (and again, men's sports are also more popular than women's sports). Over time we are seeing more and more women attracted to shooter games because of the teamwork and social values - and not because we can kill people in a more realistic way than playing an RPG and killing them with a big ass sword or fireball.
I don't know.. but I think if I was a paid journalist I might be inclined to at least go on some of the forums for these games and check out what people are talking about (and see all the clan pages... of people playing the game as a social/competitive outlet)... or even ask the question of why people play shooter games. I think the answer might surprise her and I highly doubt it's anything to do with the male subverted instincts of being a hunter/gatherer... or wanting to anonymously live out some form of real war fantasy. Playing shooter games is one of the most social form of gaming currently available. It can be just fun with friends or can be competitive with friends... but it's rarely a lone wolf kinda thing.
... and no, we don't want realism. I've often said that "realism" in a war game would mean driving around for endlessly boring hours on patrol, then hitting a roadside bomb and dying instantly... with no option to respawn.
A very interesting Jimquisition!!
I didn't even watch the video (I scrolled down) and I was still disturbed by listening to the audio of that press conference.
I agree with you for the most part, but I felt that it was weird to say that real world violence is "boring." I'd say it's really more that it's shocking in a different and more human/emotional way.
it's not "OH MY GOD LOOK AT ALL THAT BLOOD AND THAT EXPLOSION!" like for movies and games,
it's
"Holy shit.
...
That guy just DIED.
...
He's DEAD.
...
Holy shit."
I agree with you for the most part, but I felt that it was weird to say that real world violence is "boring." I'd say it's really more that it's shocking in a different and more human/emotional way.
it's not "OH MY GOD LOOK AT ALL THAT BLOOD AND THAT EXPLOSION!" like for movies and games,
it's
"Holy shit.
...
That guy just DIED.
...
He's DEAD.
...
Holy shit."
hey man nice shot?. Don't plan on watching the video, since i also don't want to see realistic violence or dead bodies in video games. Video games usually use the cinematic take on killing. It's not real and thank god for that
I don't think I'll ever get used to Bud Dwyer's suicide for so many reasons. Even before he shoots himself, he makes that unintentional funny remark about standing back or someone will get hurt. It's all so friggin' desperate and there's something in the way he's not there anymore just by looking at his eyes. You can't capture something like that in fiction.
In games, victims are dead-eyed to begin with. The subconcious tells you that these are just marionettes from the way they don't act human enough through movements or AI actions. I don't think we'll ever get to the point where we see something as desperate as Bud Dwyer (or any other real life snuff clip) in videogames and I'm kinda glad we never will.
In games, victims are dead-eyed to begin with. The subconcious tells you that these are just marionettes from the way they don't act human enough through movements or AI actions. I don't think we'll ever get to the point where we see something as desperate as Bud Dwyer (or any other real life snuff clip) in videogames and I'm kinda glad we never will.
Damn dude, you didn't need to play that video. You really need to offer a quick description before you show that shit. Saying it's going to be "disturbing" is one thing, showing a dude kill himself is something completely different.
Anyway, while I agree that violence in real life and violence in video games are different things, I definitely think there is a correlation there that can't be dismissed so easily.
I think the problem that a lot of people have is the very fact you point out; and that is that the violence in video games is so much more graphic that it is even in real life. And people eat it up. They crave it. Which is disturbing. It's sort of like how evolution is said to work: It's not immediate or sudden jumps, it's slow, progressive changes. Example: I guarantee you if you had shown this to any average person 30-40 years ago (once they got past the technology shock) they would be utterly appalled. Not so, today. Whether that's for the good or bad is up to the individual to decide.
I also think that portraying violence that way it is in video games does young people (18 and younger) a disservice. While I, personally, dismiss the idea that violent video games = violent people, I have to wonder how many young men and women go into the service with an unrealistic view of what it's going to be like over there when they get to war as a result of being exposed to things like MW2.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll get flamed into oblivion, but I thought I'd throw in my useless two pennies.
Anyway, while I agree that violence in real life and violence in video games are different things, I definitely think there is a correlation there that can't be dismissed so easily.
I think the problem that a lot of people have is the very fact you point out; and that is that the violence in video games is so much more graphic that it is even in real life. And people eat it up. They crave it. Which is disturbing. It's sort of like how evolution is said to work: It's not immediate or sudden jumps, it's slow, progressive changes. Example: I guarantee you if you had shown this to any average person 30-40 years ago (once they got past the technology shock) they would be utterly appalled. Not so, today. Whether that's for the good or bad is up to the individual to decide.
I also think that portraying violence that way it is in video games does young people (18 and younger) a disservice. While I, personally, dismiss the idea that violent video games = violent people, I have to wonder how many young men and women go into the service with an unrealistic view of what it's going to be like over there when they get to war as a result of being exposed to things like MW2.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll get flamed into oblivion, but I thought I'd throw in my useless two pennies.
I scrolled down to add my two-cents, but Stevil nailed it. Go read that again, because he said it good.
WHy the FUCK, did you really need to insert that footage to prove a point against someone's thoughts? I usually keep my mouth shut about things Mr.Sterling does, but this is just ridiculous. There was no need to show something like that to prove a point.
As for the rest of it, <I dont really care because im not into shooters>
As for the rest of it, <I dont really care because im not into shooters>
I lolled at the ending, so I guess that proves your point :D
One thing, though. It's not quite true that real violence is understated simply by evidence of that footage. You can find videos of more gruesome deaths online and they are still quite disturbing while lacking the subtlety of this man's death. A while ago I watched footage of a young soldier or three having their necks cut off in a certain middle eastern country. It was equally disturbing. So I would say the effect of watching real violence is due to something other than the flamboyance with which it is enacted.
This doesn't really detract from your point though. I liked the video. Good job on it, Jim.
One thing, though. It's not quite true that real violence is understated simply by evidence of that footage. You can find videos of more gruesome deaths online and they are still quite disturbing while lacking the subtlety of this man's death. A while ago I watched footage of a young soldier or three having their necks cut off in a certain middle eastern country. It was equally disturbing. So I would say the effect of watching real violence is due to something other than the flamboyance with which it is enacted.
This doesn't really detract from your point though. I liked the video. Good job on it, Jim.
Excellent work JimJim.
One of the most disturbing things I found about Bob Dwyer's death, was just how humane he was. "Stand back. This could hurt somebody." Seconds later he pulls the trigger and ends his own life.
He wasn't a brilliantly crafted character model, motion capped for our enjoyment. He was a living breathing human being and now he's dead.
Austin Powers would poke fun at this kind of thing, but it doesn't make the point any less true.
One of the most disturbing things I found about Bob Dwyer's death, was just how humane he was. "Stand back. This could hurt somebody." Seconds later he pulls the trigger and ends his own life.
He wasn't a brilliantly crafted character model, motion capped for our enjoyment. He was a living breathing human being and now he's dead.
Austin Powers would poke fun at this kind of thing, but it doesn't make the point any less true.
nice post elsa.
also,
I actually really enjoy violent videogames. I LOVE the vicious thrill of manhunt. I want to lurk in the shadows and wait for my prey to wander around the corner ignorant to my presence. I want to sneak up and cave their hollow skulls in with a crowbar [that joyous noise], or wait as long as i possibly can so that i am able to do the most violent plastic bag kill on an unsuspecting victim. Then there is the glorious gun toting, murder rampage that is max payne. The wonderful feeling you get having danced your way through a room full of goons putting bullets in brains and dodging incoming fire. I REALLY enjoy this. But, i dont like to watch those horrible videos on the internet of people getting public beatings and i dont enjoy watching people fight in a bar. I dont like the idea of people getting sent to a REAL war and dying leaving their families hearts broken.
also,
I actually really enjoy violent videogames. I LOVE the vicious thrill of manhunt. I want to lurk in the shadows and wait for my prey to wander around the corner ignorant to my presence. I want to sneak up and cave their hollow skulls in with a crowbar [that joyous noise], or wait as long as i possibly can so that i am able to do the most violent plastic bag kill on an unsuspecting victim. Then there is the glorious gun toting, murder rampage that is max payne. The wonderful feeling you get having danced your way through a room full of goons putting bullets in brains and dodging incoming fire. I REALLY enjoy this. But, i dont like to watch those horrible videos on the internet of people getting public beatings and i dont enjoy watching people fight in a bar. I dont like the idea of people getting sent to a REAL war and dying leaving their families hearts broken.
To everyone complaining about the Dwyer clip, you had the ability to walk away. You are watching a Jimquisition, what did you expect? He even warned you it would be disturbing footage.
I'm going to listen to Matt & Kim now. I did the whole hand-over-head while repeating "Oh God No" when I watched that footage. First time I ever saw it, hope to god it's the last.
That was...yeah, I don't want to. Totally agree that we don't need or want stuff like that in video games.
That was...yeah, I don't want to. Totally agree that we don't need or want stuff like that in video games.
I have to agree that that section of the video was deeply disturbing - I actually couldn't watch it. I've been shown that clip before, but I have never seen the part where he pulls the trigger. Don't ever really plan to.
What are, possibly, more disturbing, though, are the comments that some people have posted. What could have happened to them to make them think that a person DYING wasn't disturbing?
But, I fully agree with your points, Mr. Sterling. It's just like with, say, Kill Bill. The violence is SOOO over the top, that it starts to be hilarious, as opposed to distressing. And the 'real violence' is what makes certain scenes in A Clockwork Orange, and Reservoir Dogs hard to watch.
What are, possibly, more disturbing, though, are the comments that some people have posted. What could have happened to them to make them think that a person DYING wasn't disturbing?
But, I fully agree with your points, Mr. Sterling. It's just like with, say, Kill Bill. The violence is SOOO over the top, that it starts to be hilarious, as opposed to distressing. And the 'real violence' is what makes certain scenes in A Clockwork Orange, and Reservoir Dogs hard to watch.
Great Jimquisition! I'll have to admit, I wasn't really ready for the inserted video clip, but I think that underscores your point. I am definitely NOT desensitized to violence. Up until you ran this, I would have assumed that I was. I am the type to unlock the gore ballet perk in Fallout 3 and LOL at the chaos the follows; but, to see the real thing in action is another matter entirely. Seeing an ACTUAL act of violence still chills me and leaves me with a sense of dread. Thanks, Jim. I hope you keep up your series, it seems you are really hitting your stride. : )
I'll admit it, I was disturbed by the footage. That said, hes right on the money. Video game violence is cartoonish if you've ever read, seen (or god forbid), experienced real gun violence/war situations. Try talking to soldiers who have experienced it and you can just look into their eyes and know, instinctively, 'he went through something people should NEVER have to go through.'
Ermmm... I was not distrubed by the film, just because I DIDN'T KNOW it was real. I thought it was just out of some film, then you were like "BTW, twas' real" and I was like HOLY SHITBAGS.
Truly amazing. I am in awe. I agree wholeheartedly and even though I have seen that suicide before, it was still unnerving.
In b 4 1,000,000 replies.
In b 4 1,000,000 replies.
i didn't even watched the video, (i had it on in a different tab, because im at work), but that audio was deeply disturbing. it was all the build up, people telling him not to do it, then the screams that followed. you could put similar screams in movies and video games, but it wont have nearly the same impact because at the end, you know the person in the movie didnt really die.
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