surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
May the first person to mention the words "arrow" or "knee" after this comment suffer a syphilitic stroke.
Portal 2 would be another fine example (I'm using it over Portal 1 because in 2 you really get to know the laboratory). There is a cast of just four character, one which can't talk (and is the player), and you really to know this absolutely massive building, and you become attached to it while still remaining in awe at its mysteries. Who knows how big the lab really is? And yet it is a linear puzzle adventure.
The only problem I can see with this logic is that for its time, Metal Gear Solid was huge. Sure, it relied on one locale, but it was certainly part of, (if not the beginning of) the "games need to be bigger and more epic in every way" craze. Regardless, I still think it's certainly possible to create great games in both directions. I love Battlefield 3, but I also adore Frozen Synapse.
I used to be a CEO like you, but then i took a tumor to the.. Errr I mean ARROW in the KNEE. (what the hell I'm dead anyway)
Wow, I used to love Beneath a Steel Sky. Badass game. I recommend you all who haven't to get ScummVM and play it.
Also part of why I still have more love for Half-Life 1 than 2: Black Mesa.
It was just such an iconic environment that I went from wondering "when the heck am I gonna get out of here?" to dreading that moment like the ending of a good book :)
It was just such an iconic environment that I went from wondering "when the heck am I gonna get out of here?" to dreading that moment like the ending of a good book :)
"Such is the fate of the steak that cannot taste itself." It is indeed a hard row to hoe.
Another game in the same vein as the minimalist classics mentioned here, but encompassing a small town: It Came from the Desert. I'm hoping it will come to PC or iOS or Xbox Live or something like that, one day...
Another game in the same vein as the minimalist classics mentioned here, but encompassing a small town: It Came from the Desert. I'm hoping it will come to PC or iOS or Xbox Live or something like that, one day...
That’s kind of the whole point of Persona 4, spending a year in a small town and getting to know the people who live there, I think that’s why fans speak so fondly of the game and have so many in-jokes. I agree that games could some more intimacy with characters and environments.
Beneath a Steel Sky
FREE.
But beware, it's their xmas sale, you might get caught...
Good episode. I know Jim didn't like The Witcher 2, but what I liked was that it did areas with a richness of detail that was ridiculous. It didn't have the scale of Skyrim, but what was there was so well realized that it felt vast in its own way.
FREE.
But beware, it's their xmas sale, you might get caught...
Good episode. I know Jim didn't like The Witcher 2, but what I liked was that it did areas with a richness of detail that was ridiculous. It didn't have the scale of Skyrim, but what was there was so well realized that it felt vast in its own way.
I think the main reason you won't find many studios creating a compact, tightly scripted adventure in a small area is because it's much harder to carve off a chunk of the game and charge extra as DLC.
@Jim
Incite? More like Win-cite. Keep fucking my eyes with your awesomeness and we'll get along just fine...
Incite? More like Win-cite. Keep fucking my eyes with your awesomeness and we'll get along just fine...
Ya know what games combine the open world wonder of a Skyrim with the intimate familiarity of a Beneath a Steel Sky? Infamous 1 and 2. Not coincidentally, they're two of my favorite games this gen. While they have open world sensibilities, they bring their respective cities (particularly New Marais in the sequel) to live and make the cities characters in their own right.
Cole's means of travel around the cities is intimately tied to the cities themselves, and the player, by the end of the game, comes to know every power line and rail like the back of his hand. The city itself becomes one of the player's best allies.
Brilliant game design that I think perfectly illustrates Jim's point here.
Cole's means of travel around the cities is intimately tied to the cities themselves, and the player, by the end of the game, comes to know every power line and rail like the back of his hand. The city itself becomes one of the player's best allies.
Brilliant game design that I think perfectly illustrates Jim's point here.
Jim, you shouldn't want to taste yourself... Remember what happened to Pizza the Hutt? (Spaceballs reference? Anyone?)
Another game that took this "less is more, but we'll still shove a crapton of stuff down your throat" was the original Gothic. It was the first "breathing world" I think I ever experienced. That is to say, NPCs had daily routines and became very hostile when you started rummaging through their stuff. Your paths of advancement weren't easily a "good or evil" choice. Everything had shades of grey that didn't make you think "well, that's the evil choice and since I'm a good character I don't want that."
By comparison to Skyrim, it's pretty small size and content-wise. Hell, once you're able to survive you can walk end-to-end in maybe 10 minutes tops. But the shear amount of content that's been placed within that relatively small area is quite intense. It doesn't have a particularly engrossing story and by today's standards it's fairly feature-bare and clunky... but for the time, it was an achievement and to this day has more character than most video game offerings available. (This is, of course, an opinion.) This is despite the simplistic story and strange pacing.
Another game that took this "less is more, but we'll still shove a crapton of stuff down your throat" was the original Gothic. It was the first "breathing world" I think I ever experienced. That is to say, NPCs had daily routines and became very hostile when you started rummaging through their stuff. Your paths of advancement weren't easily a "good or evil" choice. Everything had shades of grey that didn't make you think "well, that's the evil choice and since I'm a good character I don't want that."
By comparison to Skyrim, it's pretty small size and content-wise. Hell, once you're able to survive you can walk end-to-end in maybe 10 minutes tops. But the shear amount of content that's been placed within that relatively small area is quite intense. It doesn't have a particularly engrossing story and by today's standards it's fairly feature-bare and clunky... but for the time, it was an achievement and to this day has more character than most video game offerings available. (This is, of course, an opinion.) This is despite the simplistic story and strange pacing.
Yay hyperbole.
"Level of freedom games have never dreamed of allowing". Aside from you know... other Bethesda games and open world games. I'm pretty sure you could fly in Morrowind, and I don't mean being smacked into space by giants.
Yes, well defined worlds with a strong sense of place is amongst the greatest things a game can do. Ambition is an entirely different beast and requires doing something challenging or out of the ordinary, a few simple rooms will not cut it these days.
"Level of freedom games have never dreamed of allowing". Aside from you know... other Bethesda games and open world games. I'm pretty sure you could fly in Morrowind, and I don't mean being smacked into space by giants.
Yes, well defined worlds with a strong sense of place is amongst the greatest things a game can do. Ambition is an entirely different beast and requires doing something challenging or out of the ordinary, a few simple rooms will not cut it these days.
I can see how the adventure games being shown are endearing and absorbing but I still can't see how Skyrim is.
But there are only a handful of characters in Skyrim that are actually important, and most of them share the same voice actor. The world of Skyrim isn't as "heuge" as it seems because of a shit tonne of unclimbable mountains and literally empty areas. There "freedom" in Skyrim is just an illusion, there isn't that much to do after completing the numerous fetch quests and the droll story of the game. If Skyrim does anything it's that it proves that big doesn't mean good.
@Zephreus
Lone Starr: A million? That's unfair.
Pizza the Hutt: Unfair to payor but not to payee. But you're gonna pay it, or else!
Barf: Or else what?
Pizza the Hutt: Tell him, Vinnie.
Vinnie: Or else pizza is gonna send out for *you*!
Lone Starr: A million? That's unfair.
Pizza the Hutt: Unfair to payor but not to payee. But you're gonna pay it, or else!
Barf: Or else what?
Pizza the Hutt: Tell him, Vinnie.
Vinnie: Or else pizza is gonna send out for *you*!
These truths remain self-evident. I used to LOVE the old Sierra adventure games (especially Space Quesst I-III), even though they would kill you in a cheap way. Starflight's twist ending was probably the first good mindfuck I ever had. These games aren't nearly as sophisticated as what we have now, but every bit as entertaining. Skyrim, however, is a different animal completely. I have been totally absorbed with its world, overlooking its shortcomings and quest-breaking bugs, that I wasn't too pissed off replaying six hours because I ENJOYED it.
Only played a little bit of Beneath A Steel Sky (it's still free on Good Old Games by the way, but it's very cool. :)
@mangs
Which is why I said "these days".
A game as small scale as Beneath a Steel Sky could not be released today and honestly expect to get the respect it has, telling people those kinds of games are instantly going to get incredible acclaim (and be seen as ambitious) is outright bad advice.
If you can get Beneath a Steel Sky for free, then you're obviously not going to feel ripped off.
@Bluj162
Jim and some others want to believe that Skyrim is perfect, bugless and is a type of game that has totally never been done before.
Which is why I said "these days".
A game as small scale as Beneath a Steel Sky could not be released today and honestly expect to get the respect it has, telling people those kinds of games are instantly going to get incredible acclaim (and be seen as ambitious) is outright bad advice.
If you can get Beneath a Steel Sky for free, then you're obviously not going to feel ripped off.
@Bluj162
Jim and some others want to believe that Skyrim is perfect, bugless and is a type of game that has totally never been done before.
You can get this for free via Ubuntu Software Center if you're running Ubuntu.
I've been thinking about the ideas presented here a lot lately, might it be that the hometown in Zelda 3D-games (OoT and later) feels like a real hometown because you're forced to spend so much time there in the beginning of the game?
Anyway, great show, Jim!
I've been thinking about the ideas presented here a lot lately, might it be that the hometown in Zelda 3D-games (OoT and later) feels like a real hometown because you're forced to spend so much time there in the beginning of the game?
Anyway, great show, Jim!
For some reason, the Jimquisition always judders like crazy on my PC, even though no other video/trailer does. When it showed the Skyrim footage, the framerate felt strangely familiar.
I like the idea behind this Jimquisition, bigger doesn't always mean better. Sometimes the larger a game tries to be, the more stuff just gets lost in the clutter.
I would say they made a game this generation that thrives on small familiar environments - Dark Souls. While its certainly larger than a point-and-click adventure like Beneath a Steel Sky, its fairly small for a AAA title.
One of the greatest joys in that game is exploration. Everything and everywhere is so dangerous and mysterious that just poking your head around an unfamiliar corner becomes an exhilarating experience. Each environment is unique in its own way, from the scum and Basilisk infested sewers to the grand sunlit cathedrals of Anor Lando, and they are all threatening.
However, the Metroidvania inspired design and lack of hand-fed directions or maps means you will be doing a fair amount of back-tracking. Areas that were once impassable gauntlets of deathtraps and monsters become familiar routes and stomping grounds. A combination of better stats and (more importantly) greater familiarity and skill in the player transforms those once hostile environments into relatively safe-havens that the player feels comfortable in.
I spent so much time becoming accustomed to the world of Dark Souls I could probably draw a half-decent map just from memory. The only other games I think I could do that for are old NES and SNES titles like Zelda.
I would say they made a game this generation that thrives on small familiar environments - Dark Souls. While its certainly larger than a point-and-click adventure like Beneath a Steel Sky, its fairly small for a AAA title.
One of the greatest joys in that game is exploration. Everything and everywhere is so dangerous and mysterious that just poking your head around an unfamiliar corner becomes an exhilarating experience. Each environment is unique in its own way, from the scum and Basilisk infested sewers to the grand sunlit cathedrals of Anor Lando, and they are all threatening.
However, the Metroidvania inspired design and lack of hand-fed directions or maps means you will be doing a fair amount of back-tracking. Areas that were once impassable gauntlets of deathtraps and monsters become familiar routes and stomping grounds. A combination of better stats and (more importantly) greater familiarity and skill in the player transforms those once hostile environments into relatively safe-havens that the player feels comfortable in.
I spent so much time becoming accustomed to the world of Dark Souls I could probably draw a half-decent map just from memory. The only other games I think I could do that for are old NES and SNES titles like Zelda.
follow
