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Sounds like he's trying to take credit for little work. Every game can be anti-anything.
"Oh, Bowser is a symbol of smoking and Peach is the life that he steals, while Mario is the strength to quit."
La, la la. Write a game like BioShock if you're going to make a commentary on an issue and you want people to listen.
"Oh, Bowser is a symbol of smoking and Peach is the life that he steals, while Mario is the strength to quit."
La, la la. Write a game like BioShock if you're going to make a commentary on an issue and you want people to listen.
Who is the enemy?
The British! Has he never seen star wars?
I'm all for games being deeper, but going beyond the good/evil of a game like Bioshock is risking walking down the middle ground.
Forcing you to one poll or the other imho is good, makes you question and a bit uncomfortable at times.
The British! Has he never seen star wars?
I'm all for games being deeper, but going beyond the good/evil of a game like Bioshock is risking walking down the middle ground.
Forcing you to one poll or the other imho is good, makes you question and a bit uncomfortable at times.
Never really thought Blacksite Area 51, was trying to be something it wasnt. Even with the demo, it felt like another shallow shooter. But with BioShock, you really were trapped in time. Unquestioned methods about humanity, and its diverse affects with the outcomes people decided for a society, to become doomed.
(sigh) anti-climactic is becoming the new "emo" in gaming.
(sigh) anti-climactic is becoming the new "emo" in gaming.
"I'm all for games being deeper, but going beyond the good/evil of a game like Bioshock is risking walking down the middle ground."
I don't know, I just think games can do more than draw an almost childlike line between saintly being of love and snarling devil fiend from Hell. The "moral choice" in BioShock was quite simple -- either you're a good man or an asshole. There was none of this "do I kill to survive?" questioning of personal ethics that we were led to expect. The game was, by and large, a very shallow title disguised as a deep experience by aesthetics.
BioShock was a great game, yes it was, but it was not the Holy Grail I've been waiting for. It was not the final Jackson sequence of Call of Duty 4.
I'm not asking for games to tread a middle ground, I'm asking for games to deliver what they promise. I wanted the choice to harvest Little Sisters go beyond just choosing whether or not to be an asshole. I wanted the choice to have meaning, to have impact. It did not.
I don't know, I just think games can do more than draw an almost childlike line between saintly being of love and snarling devil fiend from Hell. The "moral choice" in BioShock was quite simple -- either you're a good man or an asshole. There was none of this "do I kill to survive?" questioning of personal ethics that we were led to expect. The game was, by and large, a very shallow title disguised as a deep experience by aesthetics.
BioShock was a great game, yes it was, but it was not the Holy Grail I've been waiting for. It was not the final Jackson sequence of Call of Duty 4.
I'm not asking for games to tread a middle ground, I'm asking for games to deliver what they promise. I wanted the choice to harvest Little Sisters go beyond just choosing whether or not to be an asshole. I wanted the choice to have meaning, to have impact. It did not.
How could you not see the political commentary in Galaxy! It's all about universes, man! And how we're all drawn to stand on their backs! And the communist red and french blue Italian are here to stomp on our heads man!
Hmm, I can see your point Jim. Taking the example of Bioshock, either harvesting or saving yields similar life prospects. If this was changed would it not be the case that the average gamer would go with the choice which gives the best result, regardless of the virtual-morality? the ending to Deus Ex I guess would be the bare bones ideal on what your after, several choices, non of which being particularly ethical.
Saying that, I had to stop playing Bioshock for about an hour after harvesting a little sister for the first time. Are you saying you would liked to have that happen to everyone who plays the game?
Saying that, I had to stop playing Bioshock for about an hour after harvesting a little sister for the first time. Are you saying you would liked to have that happen to everyone who plays the game?
BioShock broke the ground that (hopefully) other game studios can hone and perfect. Hell, maybe they will even do that in BioShock 2. BioShock isn't perfect, but it was a damn noble effort.
Yeah, COD4 got close, but it sort of side stepped the whole thing with a fictional story and having you fight in the "Middle East". It never actually says where in the Middle East you are.
totally agree on bioshock. i love it, its just so shallow in the way its presented. my favorite game this year though... i don't think any game has touched me that much before.
and cod4 really does show "reality" more than any other game too. totally compelling story telling, i wonder if mass effect is up for it.
and cod4 really does show "reality" more than any other game too. totally compelling story telling, i wonder if mass effect is up for it.
Ok, so I can't goto a movie or a concert or anything without getting some holier than thou assholes opinion of the world shoved down my throat. My last refuge from the bullshit of the world is videogames, yet you want to invite them to become agenda and propaganda tools. Take for example the simcity devs talking about incorporating global warming "lessons" into the latest game. Now YOU may agree with that, but would you agree with a game which had a message the opposite of that? Let's say you are anti war, so you are all for a game with an anti-war message. But how would you feel about a game with a pro war message about a specific war? Wouldn't like that I figure, can we not just leave videogames as our one last refuge from the shit of the world???
Burritoclock: Actually, I have no interest in global warming preaching whatsoever. However, far be it from me to say a game can't put it in if it wants to.
And I'm not asking for preachy agenda, although I do have to accept that would be a byproduct. I'm after some serious commentary and provocation of thought. You might want every game to be completely devoid of mental substance, but I want something compelling.
And I'm not asking for preachy agenda, although I do have to accept that would be a byproduct. I'm after some serious commentary and provocation of thought. You might want every game to be completely devoid of mental substance, but I want something compelling.
The problem is that in order to do it beyond ramming it down our throats, it's going to have to be subtle (or invisible, in Jim Sterling's words). I mean, if there are moments in Area 51 that do at least show that maybe the good guys aren't that good, and you don't necessarily feel the greatest about what you're being forced to do in the game, then they've at least done something. I mean, if a game about KILLING ALIENS can have at least a glimmer of substance underneath the shiny, violent surface, then they deserve at least a little credit.
For the creator to drop IRAQ into the conversation might have been a tad iffy, but there will only be so much you can expect from shooters. Sorry guys, Deus Ex was not as good as you remember and it was painfully obvious from the get-go where they were taking that story.
For the creator to drop IRAQ into the conversation might have been a tad iffy, but there will only be so much you can expect from shooters. Sorry guys, Deus Ex was not as good as you remember and it was painfully obvious from the get-go where they were taking that story.
what a few people have already mentioned here is yes, when you deal with thought-provoking stuff, i reckon you better handle with care! it doesn't have to be something as painfully obvious as current war agendas, and even hot potatoes like those can be done well. in Mushroom Men, there's a conflict between edible mushrooms and poisonous mushrooms. it doesn't take a college degree to pull a parallel there. take your pick, we've got warring nations ta' boot! and when it's cartoony mushrooms, it's not brutally oppressive. it's down-right Dr. Seuss.
i do wish people would get less uppity about games that just so happen to touch on interesting topics, be it moral gray areas or real world parallels. gaming is a medium, and mediums tend to run the gamut. trust me, these games are far better than the absolutely offensive dreck that's out there now (Saints' Row couldn't be further apart from Grand Theft Auto). and don't you worry, simple playful shootin' and platformin' goodness isn't going anywhere!
but good lookin' out, Jim! Harvey Smith did an interview with Brandon Sheffield on the subversive last month. also, i talked a short bit about videogames and commentary a little while back. liked to hear your opinions!
i do wish people would get less uppity about games that just so happen to touch on interesting topics, be it moral gray areas or real world parallels. gaming is a medium, and mediums tend to run the gamut. trust me, these games are far better than the absolutely offensive dreck that's out there now (Saints' Row couldn't be further apart from Grand Theft Auto). and don't you worry, simple playful shootin' and platformin' goodness isn't going anywhere!
but good lookin' out, Jim! Harvey Smith did an interview with Brandon Sheffield on the subversive last month. also, i talked a short bit about videogames and commentary a little while back. liked to hear your opinions!
I think part of the problem with moral choices is that the technology isn't quite at the point where it's feasible to offer varying shades of gray along with the obvious good and evil choices. (That, or the technology is being used covering the world in bloom lighting.) Moral choices will hopefully get more intricate as technology continues to evolve.
@ Boolean
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@ Boolean
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I think part of the problem with moral choices is that the technology isn't quite at the point where it's feasible to offer varying shades of gray along with the obvious good and evil choices. (That, or the technology is being used covering the world in bloom lighting.) Moral choices will hopefully get more intricate as technology continues to evolve.
@ Boolean
Huh?
@ Boolean
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@Necros
"I think part of the problem with moral choices is that the technology isn't quite at the point where it's feasible to offer varying shades of gray along with the obvious good and evil choices. (That, or the technology is being used covering the world in bloom lighting.)"
that just gave me flashbacks from Fable. but! i do think games are capable of it now! it's surprising how much an actual talented writer/creative director/project lead/etc. and some publisher leeway can accomplish!
"I think part of the problem with moral choices is that the technology isn't quite at the point where it's feasible to offer varying shades of gray along with the obvious good and evil choices. (That, or the technology is being used covering the world in bloom lighting.)"
that just gave me flashbacks from Fable. but! i do think games are capable of it now! it's surprising how much an actual talented writer/creative director/project lead/etc. and some publisher leeway can accomplish!
So let me get this straight...
There is a group of people that thinks the best way to voice their opinions on the situation in the Middle East and how the U.S. is handling it is through Area 51: Blacksite, a game about blowing the shit out of aliens. Do I have it mostly correct?
I have felt a great disturbance in the Force. It was as if millions of Public Relations workers around the world cried out in agony, and then were silenced.
There is a group of people that thinks the best way to voice their opinions on the situation in the Middle East and how the U.S. is handling it is through Area 51: Blacksite, a game about blowing the shit out of aliens. Do I have it mostly correct?
I have felt a great disturbance in the Force. It was as if millions of Public Relations workers around the world cried out in agony, and then were silenced.
The Tex Murphy games, the later ones, had about five different endings that fell along the moral sliding scale. Great games too.
Also, there are thought provoking games out there, like that Left-behind-after-the-rapture game. That provokes all kinds of thoughts in me.
Also, there are thought provoking games out there, like that Left-behind-after-the-rapture game. That provokes all kinds of thoughts in me.
There's as much political commentary in Blacksite as there is in 28 Weeks Later. The army is the main bad guy, the rest are pretty much involutary victims of their experiments at an undisclosed military base in the desert (Area 51?). They keep saying stuff like: "This is not the way the Army is supposed to treat its soldiers", like Iraq veteran treatment is the same as running tests on them back home.
They are nice touches though, too bad you see those bits over and over again, coz once you die, you have to wait 2 minutes to reload and retry and hear the same things over and over again :P
Maybe they tried and failed. Maybe Haze will make the same mistakes with their try to put political commentary in that game?
They are nice touches though, too bad you see those bits over and over again, coz once you die, you have to wait 2 minutes to reload and retry and hear the same things over and over again :P
Maybe they tried and failed. Maybe Haze will make the same mistakes with their try to put political commentary in that game?
Clive thompson over at wired provides a different take on the whole thing, interesting counter reading. Seems to be the difference between lofty expectations of subversiveness and being pleasantly surprised by the subtle satirical jabs. Personally, I think it's a shame an interesting idea is wrapped up in what seems to be such a mediocre game. I look forward to smith's next offering though, hopefully he won't overshoot by so much.
They're going, "Hey, you guys can't do this," and somebody else is saying, "The hell we can't."
With such well written and subtle dialog like this, it's such a shame it all fell short. (!)
If I wanted to hear such ham-fisted and awkward 'political commentary, I'd just join Moveon.org.
With such well written and subtle dialog like this, it's such a shame it all fell short. (!)
If I wanted to hear such ham-fisted and awkward 'political commentary, I'd just join Moveon.org.
I'm so sick of hearing this crap. I just read a WIRED article where they talked about how awesome Harvey Smith is for weaving in a political angle into the story of the game.
Everyone seems to forget one critical element about Blacksite: It wasn't fun. :X
Proving once again, that although we all crave it, demand it and require it the story in a video game doesn't matter.
Everyone seems to forget one critical element about Blacksite: It wasn't fun. :X
Proving once again, that although we all crave it, demand it and require it the story in a video game doesn't matter.
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