At the moment, I didn't like GTA4 either, so I am tempted to try out Saints Row 2 and decide whether to get it or not. It seems like a GTA clone, but from what you said, its probably done everything RIGHT.
Wow, what a shocking and outrageous post Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are so "out there" and controversial.
Not.
What I got was a game that impressed me at so many moments and gave me so much pure JOY that it's become one of my favourite games ever.
It's like injecting yourself with pure fun...without the horror of injecting yourself with anything.
PIMP
CANE
SHOTGUN
Does GTA4 allow you drive around in a septic tanker truck and smear shit on everything while your passenger cracks jokes?
Also Jim Sterling, you can't just go around publishing your facts on the internet.
That's fucked up.
I agree that the multiplayer was botched in GTA4 (they should have really went for crackdown style co-op), but the attention to detail really brought me into the world of liberty city
the major problem with the game is that the story was too linear and the relationships with friends didn't really lead to any exciting side-quests/missions and the mafia stuff near the end of the game sucked... and yeah there could have been more interiors to more buildings and more things to do (like an arcade or going to a mall), but they really started from scratch for this game whereas saint's row 2 is a 2nd iteration of the same engine... i'm sure GTA4: Vice City/London/Tokyo/San Andreas will have more of the stuff that is glaringly missing from GTA4
I haven't picked up SR2 yet, but I will at some point for sure, after I get through Fallout 3 and some others.
Anyways, I agree with some of your points for sure.
Frankly, I couldn't be happier with the situation, if GTA 5 is further in the 'serious' and 'realistic' direction, I'll be happy, just as long as SR3 puts Gary Busy in the next game and, I don't know, something crazy like a breifcase bomb full of C4 and dildos. If they both continue to diverge into distinct experiences, I'll be happy.
I like GTAIV but seriously...I can't stick with it long. i'm in and out and i've had the game since launch and haven't beaten it.
While I like the new approach, Saints Row filled the gap for me in terms of just having stupid fun by doing a lot of stupid things. I'm really eager to get my hands on Saints Row 2.
Good show Sterling, I find myself agreeing with you more and more, that thought confuses me quite a bit.
multi tiered story-
the fact that there are multiple gangs that don't have to have the missions in a series makes the main story line far more fun
nut shots-
you get respect for nut shots need I say more
picking stuff up in the environment-
I really like the fact that you can rip a parking meter out of the ground (and pick up the $ for extra cash) or pick up newspaper stands, chairs, pizza boxes, computers, etc and clobber people with it- in GTA you have to find a brick or a bottle or such if you don't have a weapon- in SR2 if you need to you can grab a trash can and chuck it at someone.
car games-
pretty much every vehicle has some kind of option for minigames- taxis (reminds me a lot of crazy taxi playing it), ambulances and even regular cars where if a passenger is in it you can play a hostage minigame.
human shield and throw-
I don't know why, but if you played the warriors (rockstar) on psp- you were able to grab people, throw them, beat their heads against the wall- in GTA4 you could just punch and shoot. In SR2 you can grab people and throw them off of balconies and railings, perform executions in a chokehold- it is waaaaay more fun.
gang takeovers-
randomly if you piss a gang off they try to take your turf and the battles are pretty brutal- but fun
I haven't had much time to play lately, but I purposely haven't gotten any games since SR2 because I do reallly want to play more- I am only about 4 or 5 missions into each gang- and have only explored about 1/3 of the map at this point... gonna try to take some time to play this weekend.
The community did better than I expected! Good job.
That said, I don't understand the problem you people had with the driving. I love the realism. It felt really great when I got every thing down.
I love it so much that I'm afraid Saints Row's driving physics will annoy me. I hate it when vehicles go far too arcade-like.
This is why I can never play Midnight Club, but can play Need for Speed. Need for Speed vehicles feel a bit realistic while being arcade. It's when things get too precise that I'm turned off.
I don't know. It's probably because I'm a sim racer fan. I still think you're all crazy.
Also, in case some of you didn't realize, I wasn't picking sides. It's impossible for me to pick a game if I haven't played one.
Gonna go check out the latest Zero Punctuation instead: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/312-Saints-Row-2
HAY... hold on a minute?!?
Can't agree that one is superior than the other because of that Jim. But you made good points when contrasting them.
For me it is GOTY and deservingly so.
Come in Rock* your time is up.
Is this what my beloved destructoid has become?!
I'm getting really tired of people complaining about the respect meter - I'm playing on hardcore mode and after completing level 6 on ONE activity I had enough respect to almost finish one gang storyline. It really wasn't hard at all to build up respect - not to mention that you get respect for killing people, car surfing, reckless driving, tagging, collecting cd's, etc. My complaint is that it was TOO easy to build up respect. I now have infinite respect and i haven't even started the sons or brotherhood missions.
Also the activities unlocked sick super guns and attribute bonuses - even more reason to play them. And if you say that insurance fraud, heli attack, fuzz, etc were boring then maybe you should go play "Cabela's Big Game Hunter"
I'm getting really tired of people complaining about the respect meter - I'm playing on hardcore mode and after completing level 6 on ONE activity I had enough respect to almost finish one gang storyline. It really wasn't hard at all to build up respect - not to mention that you get respect for killing people, car surfing, reckless driving, tagging, collecting cd's, etc. My complaint is that it was TOO easy to build up respect. I now have infinite respect and i haven't even started the sons or brotherhood missions.
Also the activities unlocked sick super guns and attribute bonuses - even more reason to play them. And if you say that insurance fraud, heli attack, fuzz, etc were boring then maybe you should go play "Cabela's Big Game Hunter"
The Realism of GTA in every way made it completely different to mostly every other game in its brave to sacrafice certain aspects of fun. GTA and saints row 2 are such opposites that i hate it that there seen as the same.
All just a matter of preference in what you want and im tired of mindless shooterthons. Though GTA does need mroe stuff to bloody do to spend money on. A gang, businesses, residential property, more guns, more cars, ANYTHING!
People stil play GTAIV, and even more will start playing again when the DLC comes out.
Also, I won't be surprised one bit if GTA IV wins game of the year.
It seems to me that Volition realized that they are making a GAME and that when it comes down to it, a game will be judged on its FUN, so they made it fun.
Speaking just for myself, I brought them all up then.
Part of the realism in GTA IV begins with the city itself. Have you take your time to take a walk (or a cab) all over Liberty City? My God, I have New York in my TV... And I can interact with it!
Of course it's great to be a dick in a sandbox game, yet I don't feel that would make a game better than a realistic one.
I'll give a try to SR2 though, and I'll make my own impressions about it.

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