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Ten obnoxiously cheap ways of extending a game's length photo

As games have become more and more expensive, a focus on longevity has naturally become increasingly important. When we spend $60 on a videogame, we expect to get our money's worth, and that means we don't want a game that's finished in less than three hours.

While we are quite right to demand a certain amount of gameplay to justify the money spent, it unfortunately means that developers have had to come up with creative time-wasting schemes that don't give us the value we want, but merely create the illusion of value.

All too regularly, a game comes along that takes time-wasting to a whole new level, and you realize that what you've purchased is nothing but vapidity masquerading as substance, inconsequential padding that's desperately trying to fill an arbitrary length quota with meaningless activities and regurgitated setpieces. Developers have almost made an art form of tricking consumers into believing they got their money's worth. 

In this list column, itself an ironically cheap and easy way of filling up article space, we pay tribute to some of the most obnoxious and blatant attempts at wasting a player's time in the name of longevity. These are games that may advertise themselves as eight to fifty hour-long experiences, but typically only provide about thirty minutes of actual fresh material. Join us as we look at the ten cheapest ways of extending a game's length.

1: Collecting Meaningless Shit
Notable Offender: Sonic Unleashed

Replayability is a magic word in the games industry. If your game has replay value, then you can be certain that money was well spent. However, some people confuse "replayability" with "forcing players to do the same thing over and over again until they throw the disc at a wall." Popularized by Mario 64 but taken to absolute extremes by more recent games such as Sonic Unleashed, the whole "collect a convoluted amount of shiny things in old levels to unlock new ones" is one of the most lazy and obvious ways of falsely extending a game's length. 

Sticking with Sonic Unleashed as our prime example, a number of Sun and Moon Medals are hidden throughout each level. They can be incredibly well hidden, and even conflict with the main gameplay, since Sonic is usually too busy running fast to stop and hunt for obscure collectibles. You need both these Sun and Moon Medals to unlock night and day stages, respectively. Bear in mind that there are around 200 Sun and Moon Medals in the game each. Later levels can take hours of repeating old bits of gameplay ad nauseum in a meaningless search for shit, and just because Sonic Team wanted to make the game appear longer. 

A game should be replayed because a player wants to replay it, not because they were forced to. A developer that uses this tactic clearly has no faith in his own ability to design a good game. 

2: Grinding
Notable Offender: Most RPGs

Roleplaying games are famed for their length. Epic fifty-hour quests are boasted with glee on the back of many RPG packages, and players are sucked in by the promise of a game that will literally last them months. However, if you decide to discount the parts of an RPG where you are walking back and forth over a piece of map and randomly waiting to input the same commands until the number next to your name gets bigger, you'll find that many of those fifty hours are absolutely nothing. 

Grinding is one of the oldest tricks in the book. So popular is the idea of gaining experience points and strengthening a character that genres outside of RPGs have cottoned on and exploited it. Tacking on a grinding leveling system to a generic action game suddenly creates the illusion of depth, and keeps players hooked for longer as they level up their heroes in endlessly repetitive battles. 

I enjoy RPGs and typically dig acquisition-of-power gameplay, but let's not pretend that the idea of grinding is anything more than filler. It's not fifty hours of epic questing if most of that "journey" is spent walking around outside a town for thirty of those hours.

3: Backtracking
Notable Offender: Prince of Persia

Why bother developing 50% of a game when you can just repeat the first 50% but at NIGHT TIME? Backtracking is an all-too common little scheme found in many action games, where a game is falsely extended by simply repeating levels, usually with a few quick and easy changes to the color scheme. Recent examples include X-Blades, which makes you go forward through the levels, then back through all of them, Devil May Cry 4, which repeats many levels with the Niero and Dante characters, and of course, the most recent Prince of Persia, which is just one big backtracking simulator. 

The change of color and a few new enemies can obscure the lazy development, but most studios aren't clever enough to hide their blatantly obvious recycling. When a game's repetition accounts for an entire half of the experience, that's just plain rubbish. Don't even get me started on RPGs that make you fight your way to the heart of a dungeon, have a huge boss battle and then demand you FIGHT YOUR WAY BACK OUT AGAIN! DAMN YOU!

4: Reincarnation
Notable Offender: Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, Dead Rising

This is a rare technique, but no less irritating for it. Some games are designed to not be completed the first time around, and force players into a Groundhog Day series of reincarnations. These rare games allow players to carry over their increased stats with each new game, and think that then gives them carte blanche to extend the game's length by making it so that you might as well keep dying, restarting the game, and getting stronger. 

Making the player repeat the first hour of gameplay several times over is pretty clever, even if it is irritating. Also, I don't care what anybody says, Dragon Quarter was a load of crap, and this was a big reason. 

5: Repeated Animations
Notable Offender: Project Altered Beast 

A nice and cheap way of filling up time is to make some sort of animation sequence, and then repeat it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. The absolutely terrible Project Altered Beast had repetitive transformation FMVs every time you switched between human and beast form, which confused me since the game was so unbearable that decreasing the length would have worked in its favor. 

Lengthy attack sequences in RPGs and various special moves in action games that take ages to charge up or perform are all guilty of doing this, and those extra seconds of animation can really pile up to make a game feel longer, even if the players themselves are bored of seeing the same old long-winded finishing move time and time again. Watching a sword go through a generic soldier's face is great the first time, but it loses its appeal on the on the fortieth rehash.

6: Trial and Error
Notable Offender: Mega Man 9

I hate trial and error gameplay with a passion. It's cheap design, and a big reason why old games seem to be so short when they once felt really long. A game designed to kill the player until they become trained to learn the one and only way to complete a level is just sub-par game design, in my opinion, and it takes far more intelligence to design a well balanced game that challenges without ambushing players. 

Resident Evil 5 had a particularly inventive and infuriation method of doing this by sneaking instant-death Quick Time Events in the middle of cutscenes. Nearly all of them caught me off guard during the game because I was doing what most people do during a cutscene and watching them. Recent Sonic games also use Sonic's speed as a way of falling back on trial and error, since you need to play levels constantly to know when to turn and when not to fall into the ridiculously numerous pitfalls. 

Many old school players love this kind of thing, and when Mega Man 9 came along, they openly wept with gratitude. I just don't have time for that kind of design, unfortunately. Trial and error is bullshit. 

7. Walking. Lots of Walking
Notable Offender: Gears of War

Why have gameplay when you can have walking? A number of action games have cottoned on to the fact that you can accumulate huge amounts of "play time" simply by making the character walk through parts of a level with absolutely no action whatsoever. I suppose we're to marvel at the architecture or something, but it can get really dull and there are games out there who unashamedly add in extra, unnecessary segments of just ... walking. 

Gears of War invented a really good way of using this "nothing walk" mechanic. Epic Games didn't even have to make impressive environments and long pathways to simulate the act of walking while doing fuck-all, they just made the characters walk really, really slowly. A number of times during the game, Marcus Fenix and pals all stop and put their fingers in their ears to talk to someone on a radio. Of course, the only way to talk on the radio is to move at a snail's pace, and in doing so, you can add some impressive minutes to your game clock. 

I expect to see that technique used more and more. A recent game I played (but cannot talk about due to embargo) has made liberal use of the tactic. Walking for the win!

8. The "Jason Voorhees" School of Boss Battles
Notable Offender: Devil May Cry

Very much like a good slasher film villain, some videogame bosses just don't seem to die. However, unlike a good slasher film villain, the repetition of a boss battle is usually quite unwelcome. The Devil May Cry series is famed for its reliance on rehashing boss battles. Viewtiful Joe even went so far as to make you play the entire game's worth of bosses, one after the other, right before the end battle. Capcom's pretty good at this shit, I'd say. 

Many of these battles are just straight repeats. The boss looks practically the same, does the same attacks, and is killed in the same way. They are ostensibly pointless exercises in tedium, especially since we're not going to be intimidated by something we've already seen and beaten. I grant you that, sometimes, a repeated boss isn't a bad thing. A deliberately recurring enemy or a boss that does different things whenever you face it can be quite entertaining. However, a boss battle that exists purely to distract you while the game does absolutely nothing new is shameful. 

9. Opening Doors
Notable Offender: Most Action Games

I don't generally consider Quick Time Events as cheap ways of extending a game's length. No, I consider QTEs as cheap ways of doing cool things that the studio is too lazy to make more interactive. However, the QTE has spawned a bastard child that definitely has no justification in a game, other than to draw out the process of playing. How many times have you had to hammer one of your controller's buttons just to open a door? How many times in just one game? Yes, merely opening a door has been turned into a beautifully wasteful experience. 

Examples I can quickly pull from the top of my head include Viking: Battle For Asgard and THQ's most recent Conan game. Both games make opening a door look like some Herculean effort, as the character goes through the same mundane animation while you repeatedly tap a single button. It's not challenging, it's not very fun, so why is it in my fucking videogame? The simple fact of the matter is that it doesn't need to be in the game at all. Nobody has ever raved about the awesome "door opening mechanics" in a game, and nobody will until there is a miraculously awesome door opening mechanic. Hammering a button and watching a dreary animation is not awesome. It's certainly not gameplay. 

It amazes me that so many games have been able to do this, too, and they're all getting away with it. This is mostly because it's so boring and dull, that most players can't be bothered to talk about it when they review or discuss the videogame as a whole. That almost qualifies as genius -- a gameplay element so tiresome that you actually forget it exists, so can't call the studio out on it.

Well, I've remembered it this time. There is no escape for rubbish faux-gameplay extensions. 

10. The Valkyrie
Only Offender: Too Human

One could argue that the entirety of Denis Dyack's magnum opus, Too Human, is a futile exercise in wasting time, but our friends at Silicon Knights chose to hammer that point home by introducing one of the most blatant, despicable and trashy little bits of false game longevity known to mankind -- The Valkyrie. 

In the spirit of this article, rather than present you with new material, I am just going to rehash a portion of our Too Human review. If repeating yourself to extend length is good enough for games, it's good enough for this article:

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the worst piece of game design I have had the displeasure of suffering through in the past five years. Every time you die, you are forced to watch a 25-second-long cutscene in which a Valkyrie descends and carries Baldur off. It is the same scene every time -- the same animation, the same awful music, and the same length. All of it unskippable, and all of it happening often. It may not sound like much, but when you experience it for yourself, the frustration is almost unbearable. The game itself has been designed to kill you, and often, and one can only surmise that it's because the developers have found this idea of the Valkyrie so important, so damn compelling, that we all have to pay attention to it over and over again. Well it's not important, nor is it compelling, and it's not clever in the least. If you are going to play Too Human, then it is advisable that you bring a book with you. You are going to need something to do during the regular, obnoxious periods of forced downtime. 

It's great because it combined a number of things we've already discussed. The basic principals of trial and error gameplay, reincarnation, lots of walking and repeated animations all rolled into one antagonizing piece of pigshit. Without the Valkyrie, Too Human might have been a bearable game.

It wouldn't be very long, though.


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183 comments | showing # 1 to 50

BlackFreefall's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:05
BlackFreefall
Before I even read the article, I had a feeling that repeated boss battles is going to be on this list. (Curse you Devil May Cry).

Is a good list.
eternalplayer2345's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:05
eternalplayer2345
Great list Jim. Trail and error reminds me of how difficult mario 2 (jp) really is I felt like I had to carve the level layout into my brain with a rusty nail before I could beat some of the levels.
Justice's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:12
Justice
All good points Jim, but I think the walking in Gears of War didn't detract from the game like most of these other methods do. To me it added more, since it felt right, as in the scope of the levels.
Timmeh's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:12
Timmeh
What, no Far Cry 2? 80% of the game seemed to be filler. Without the checkpoints and enemy vehicles that are always faster it probably would have taken about 5 hours to complete the game :P
kavorka's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:19
kavorka
Level grinding and trial & error. We hates them.

Especially trial and error. I'm a good enough gamer that if a game is put together right, the only times I'll die/lose are due to human error. Dying because there was NO POSSIBLE WAY to portent an obstacle or AI strategy is supremely annoying. I'm sure the rest of you have experienced this. (Valkyria Chronicles, anyone?)
Exquisitor's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:22
Exquisitor
Assassin's creed is the king of padding with useless missions and collectibles.

One thing that really really upsets me is when the only reward for the collection quests is an achievement. Back in the NES era, you were rewarded for doing things like this. Finish Metroid in record time, and you get a special ending. Complete the Legend of Zelda and you unlock a second game that doubles the replay value of the game. Assasin's Creed: You collected all of the flags in the game... here's some useless gamer points.
de BLOO's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:22
de BLOO
The walking in Gears never bothered me...

But a went MLG with that game so I played Multiplayer mainly.
hitnrun's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:24
hitnrun
Oh, come on. Mega Man 9 can be beaten in under an hour if you don't die more than a few times. Obviously if the game were easy enough that you could do that on your first try the game would be a rip-off.

Most of the list is good, though. Feels like you stetched it out just a weee bit to make 10. Lols on the Valkyrie. Also, JRPG grinding deserves its own paragraph. The amount of grinding I'm willing to tolerate in an RPG stems from the quality of the rest of the game. It isn't a contributor to the rest of the game, as certain painfully overrated products seem to think nowadays.
Hiltz's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:27
Hiltz
Good: MadWorld


Bad: No More Heroes

As great as No More Heroes is, it forced you to do fairly boring and repetitive side-jobs/mini-games over and over again inbetween the much more enjoyable main ranked missions. The only cool thing that helped extend the game's length was searching through the trash bings to collect stuff.

With MadWorld it trimmed the fat off of the meat. Sure, the game's length could have been just a bit longer and it did try to offer some additional variety with the few motorycle driving sections but the advantage is that the game primarily focused on the best part of what made the game fun and kept the pacing going well.
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:30
Jim Sterling
"Oh, come on. Mega Man 9 can be beaten in under an hour if you don't die more than a few times. Obviously if the game were easy enough that you could do that on your first try the game would be a rip-off."

Yeah, do you not see that you just argued my entire point for me?
jaworsky's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:30
jaworsky
I think some of these (like the button mashing to open doors) are used to reduce the need for load screens. Good article though.

Megaman 9 is a piece of ass.
hitnrun's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:35
hitnrun
^^So when you sat down to play Mega Man 9, you were thinking "wow, I can't wait to play a new exemplar of 21st Century game design that probably caters to my refined expectations and really just *looks* like 8-Bit Mega Man"?

At any rate, Tomb Raider would have made for a worse example, or other games where the challenge *is* just dying from the obstacle the first time and moving out of the way the second time. Most of the "trial and error" from MM9 is just taking your brain back in time 20 years. Once it's there it's actually pretty easy.
jaworsky's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:40
jaworsky
I had hope MM9 would be fun. My mistake.
There's really no excuse for putting out a bad game, "retro" or otherwise.
Jonathan Holmes's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:52
Jonathan Holmes
Trial and error? Really?

I'm trying to think of one good game that didn't involve trial and error gameplay in someway; which I guess would be a game with no bosses, no exploration, or any sort of learning curve at all.

I can't think of one.

Every game I have ever enjoyed has required me to learn, mostly via trial and error, what methods will and wont be effective at beating the game. The "deeper" the game, the more complex and potentially effective methods available to the player, all learned from trial and error.

I agree that un-forewarned, instant death is pretty cheap though (except in the case of Dr Salvador, when it is awesome).
Arlo infidel's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:54
Arlo infidel
For some reason the level grinding in the older RPG's; FF3, Secret of Mana/Evermore ect., never really bothered me. Was it because it was less abundant in those games? Or because I was younger and could pass time more easily in front of SNES?
Now though in the newer RPG's, those for the DS really stick out in my mind, it's like a thorn in my side whenever I pick one up from the store. I know I will enjoy the story, but I am going to have to sit through damn grinding in order to beat a boss and see some crappy voice acting...
UCHU's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 13:59
UCHU
To be honest, I don't really understand the complaints about Megaman 9's difficulty. Did everyone suddenly forget about how retardedly difficult the first one was or something?
Corak's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:01
Corak
I completly agree here. Especially the trial and error part. Running along, doo de doo, bam, a piece of floor drops out from under you with no prior warning. Or something pops up out of a tube/floor that wasn't there before you jumped over it. Some people I know like that sadism, I for one can't stand it. Also I completly agree on that RPG grinding. I think its the reason I never finish most of them. I play the game for quite some time, did some extra stuff and I get to the last battles and for the life of me I can't beat this guy. Then I ask around, and go online and find out that I'm too low of a level to finish the fight and have to grind out more to really stand a chance. Fuck you, I played this game for 36+ hours total and now I have to grind out levels. If thats not a break in a games flow I don't know what is.
Spartacus's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:02
Spartacus
I thought Metal Gear Solid 2 had some pretty good door opening mechanics.
E Assassin's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:03
E Assassin
Brilliant article Jim. Way to shed light on some of ridiculous shit we as gamers have to put up with due to laziness, lack of creativity and money.
ParaParaKing's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:04
ParaParaKing
Great list. I love it.

Jonathan Holmes: Guitar Hero has no trial and error. You are told exactly what to do and if you can't do it, you just lack skill.
gamadaya's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:08
gamadaya
I don't get the trial and error thing. Trial and error is not always bad. It's not like Megaman tricks you or anything, or ambushes you with shit that will kill you if you don't know it's there. Megaman is just hard, and you're going to need to play levels a bunch of times before you get good enough to beat them. I think Megaman games are superbly designed because they still manage to be fun in spite of the repetition.
AKK's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:12
AKK
Okami pissed me off because it forced you to fight a boss three times with absolutely NO difference between the fights. That was the only thing I didn't really like about it, but it made me incredibly angry.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:18
Tubatic
@gamadaya

See, I'd like to say exactly what you've said but there was that one enemy type in MM9 that came out of nowhere, grabbed you, and dropped you into one-hit kill spikes. Very cheap, indeed.

But, as you'd agree, you get over it. Honestly, whenever they showed up, the game gave you a freaking tell. And once that particular enemy gets you, guess what: you know where he is now. How cheap and unfair, I have to repeat a level. The horror...


I can dig most of the other ones, but I call bullshit on Trial and Error being bullshit. If anything, building a game around the requirement of obscure and exacting process (ala Splinter Cell) is cheap. Mega Man games, though, are well designed in terms of presenting an obstacle that you'll learn, execute and overcome, sometimes with a number of different methods. Certainly not for everyone, but I don't think its an indication of poor design.
notdryad's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:19
notdryad
@ParaParaKing

And yet, it takes repetitive plays to know when the difficult sections are coming and when to save your Star Power. Gee, it sure sounds like the harder songs become a matter of trial and error until you get it down.
Sheir's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:19
Sheir
Final Fantasy VIII: Repeated animations. The GFs take so fucking long to attack, and "Boost" doesn't make it any more bearable.
Tubatic's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:22
Tubatic
@tubatic

Sorry, broken thought up there: the "tell" being that there's a sudden lull in enemies, and wide open space. Its like when the music goes all quiet in a horror movie. You've got ot know KNOW something's coming, and it can't be that easy...
otogi guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:24
otogi guy
i think "walking" added maybe a whole 2 minutes to Gears length
LLIINNKK's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:25
LLIINNKK
1. Collecting meaningless shit - Yes, you are right, but the Mario 64 mention doesn't make any sense. The coins are never obnoxiously placed, and the stars you get are OPTIONAL. Most games do have this problem, but the reference is straight up retarded.

2. Grinding - Ok, I'll give you this one.

3. Back Tracking - Prince of Persia? Honestly? Ok, you have to return to the main area to get your new spells, but aside from that you have different areas that keep unlocking. Best part? YOU CAN FUCKING WARP. Your X-Blades example holds far more weight, because it's obnoxious as fuck. I'll agree that I hate backtracking, but don't make your main example a game that has warp options.

4. Reincarnation - I guess, but Dead Rising is meant to be played how the player wants, and completed how a player wants. I'll agree that the leveling system is bullshit and shouldn't take two playthroughs, but the game is still great.

5. Repeated Animations - I don't care.

6. Trial and Error - Hate with a passion? Hmmm... Mega Man, Mario, Mirror's Edge, Every old school game ever, etc... I forgot that old games are fucking terrible, and games that requires skill and patience suck. Fuck you, buddy. And Mega Man 9 and Mirror's Edge are incredible and the best games of 08. Go back to Killzone, shitty Fallout 3, and your next-gen bullshit that requires one button to complete. Trial and Error is in every excellent game for the most part, and whoever made the Tomb Raider reference made a far better point about the problem. When you can't avoid the death, then fine, but calling out Mega Man, which requires skill, is a joke.

7. Walking - Most games have run options. I don't know if you know this, but if you hold "A" in Gears of War, you run. Incredible concept.

8. Bosses not dying - I'll also give you this one.

9. Opening Doors - This does exist, mostly because God of War made such an extensive use of it, but I found it more annoying when opening chests. I don't know why, but it is irratating.

10. The Valkyrie - Didn't play the game longer than a half hour, so I have no opinion. I'll say you are more than correct simply because the game sucks.

I've been a reader for awhile, and you have a great way of being a total douchebag... in almost everything you write. I actually registered after reading this shit, because I'm curious why your lack in video game skill makes trial and error suck. I'd love to see some counterpoints over a ban, but have it your way.
aivan's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:30
aivan
I hated Phantom Hourglass for that stupid temple of the ocean king. Not only was there a time limit, an unnecessary stealth element, but you had to backtrack and re-do all the floors that you had already done earlier in the game.

Never bothered finishing it.
Clbull's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:37
Clbull
Majora's Mask sorta did the Reincarnation thing, when you constantly repeat the 3 day cycle, but use the time to travel through different dungeons and finally complete the game on the final cycle. I think it was done in a smart way though.

Whereas, the Dead Rising repeating thing was one reason why I didn't like it. You'd often have to repeat the same things again to get to a decent enough level to survive and then the nighttime parts were boring because you had to find sidequests to occupy your time until the next day.
Corak's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:41
Corak
@Lliinnkk

Jim Sterling has a quite a reputation of bring out the assholes that visit this site. Unfortunatly you are the newest, welcome. I'm sure you'll receive a warm reception from the rest of the community as well as Mr. Sterling himself. This is nothing new to the community and your attempts to discredit him or just plain mock him, or call him names like "douchebag" will most likely fall on deaf ears as its all been said before and disproven shortly after. You can disagree with him no one will try to take that from you, but there is a way you can go about it where you don't like an internet asshole, which you just honored yourself with being a new one here. As people say here, "welcome...don't suck" I guess its too late for that last part huh?
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:44
vexed alex
@ Jonathan Holmes: And most of the games I enjoy don't have that at all, or do it in a way that doesn't feel cheap and drawn out.
Professor Pew's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:44
Professor Pew
I would like non-progressive achievements to this personally. Why do I have to play through My Horse and Me 2 all over again on Amateur when I finished it on Professional?? Oh, and achievements :P
akathatoneguy's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:48
akathatoneguy
I would have liked to see a couple of additions to this list.

User Generated Content- Developers can now release a fairly bare-bones game on the PC, knowing that a rabid fanbase will do the work for them by designing mods that fix annoying issues or new maps to play on. Thus, players don't get bored of the game, but you didn't have to do shit!

Achievements That Require Several Playthroughs- Take advantage of the completionists and achievement whores by requiring them to beat your game multiple times to get all of the achievements! This also ties nicely into the "collect-a-thons" and other aspects of lazy developing.
Fleet3000's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:50
Fleet3000
reincarnation is one of the sole reasons i'll keep playing games over and over again. examples like chrono cross and the world ends with you. maybe i just like kicking the CRAP out of lower level guys when i'm a god. who knows.
MechaMonkey's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:50
MechaMonkey
So... you just don't like games?
Scroll's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:51
Scroll
I think some people don't get the trial error thing. We're talking about moments where you cannot predict you're demise. Where you literally have to memorise parts of levels to survive.
Mushman's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:52
Mushman
The only thing that makes grinding bearable is the fact that I can listen to my music on my swanky MP3 player whilst doing it. No important dialouge being said or story events unfolding when beating the living hell out of monsters, right?

Apart from that, I despise grinding, simply because you actually feel you are wasting your life, to me, a game should never, ever give heed to those feelings. Yet most old-school, and new, RPG's use grinding as an 'effective' means of longevity.

I agree with the rest of the points, rather well-written and truthful blog Jim!
B-Radicate's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:54
B-Radicate
Every single one of these things make me want to make a game that has NONE of them.

Great article.
HerosPlayDumb's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:54
HerosPlayDumb
great article, agreed minus the trial and error.
Dexter345's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 14:56
Dexter345
I agree, trial and error gameplay is bullshit, and Mega Man is bullshit.
LLIINNKK's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:01
LLIINNKK
@corak

Sooo you are defending one internet douchebag, by also saying that I am an internet douchebag? I am no different than his overly opinionated self, the guys needs a taste of his own medicine. I obviously have no problem with people acting in said way, but he NEVER backs up any of his shit. He just cries about it, and then gets idiots like you to praise him for being a shitty writer. I'd like some non-smart ass comments back from him, but he's probably not clever enough to come up with any.
Bioautographical's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:01
Bioautographical
Trial and error gaming, to me, is exemplified in the carpet-ride level of the old Genesis 'Aladdin' game. You literally had to MEMORIZE the placement of the giant rocks and obstacles to make it through; you were GOING to die the first couple of times you played it, it had NOTHING to do with skill.

When a game requires you to be *clairvoyant* rather than skillful, it's straight trial-and-error.
flabzilla's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:03
flabzilla
So i guess rock band and guitar hero are bullshit? Ouenden, eleit beat agents too?

All those game feel like trial and error to me.

Thing with trial and error is it's bullshit if it's in some complex game where if you die you have to go through a shit load of menues and cutscenes to repeat the process and it makes the repeating part unbearable.

Megaman isn't like that, the levels are short and you get a continue point half way through to help so repeating sections and learning how to do it isn't that much trouble, at least to me it isn't any way.
Same with rythem games, the "levels" in those are short and easy to learn after a while.
Bioautographical's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:06
Bioautographical
@LLIINNKK

Except, he wasn't fucking addressing you. He's got a blunt, direct style of addressing his distaste for stuff, but it's not like he said, "HEY LLIINNKK YOU FUCKING CUNT, I HATE THIS GAME AND IF YOU LIKE IT YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!" That's what YOU obviously glean from it, if that's really even your problem at all.

So when YOU come in being a complete and utter douchebag, then expect non smart-ass points from him, that makes you even MORE of a douchebag. Maybe you if you want an actual discussion, some real POINTS debated, you should come off with less of a demanding attitude and more of a "Hey, man, could you explain this?" Jim has NEVER refused a decent discussion if requested of him decently.

With your response, I hope he DOES tell you to fuck off for being a douchebag. Which you are.
LLIINNKK's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:10
LLIINNKK
@bioautographical

Regardless of if he approached me saying "HEY LLIINNKK YOU FUCKING CUNT, I HATE THIS GAME AND IF YOU LIKE IT YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!"

He writes to ALL of his readers this way. I don't dislike his style, I dislike how egotistical and obnoxious his writing is. I understand that this is a heavily opinionated industry, but there are ways to go about it, and ways not to. If you read what I wrote, I actually made points. In the same way that he does... by being an asshole. Do you read what he writes? He swears and says whatever he wants, but when it's directed at him, it's wrong?

How about, Fuck you. That's about the only response you deserve.
buzski's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:10
buzski
I love grinding even if it's a filler
kwaselow's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:12
kwaselow
The worst part of bosses not dying is when they decide to make every boss in the game slightly more difficult and have yo fight them all again. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, ACTRAISER
AgentMOO's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:19
AgentMOO
I don't see why everyone is getting butt hurt over the inclusion of Mega Man 9 in the list. It's an example of a game design philosophy that we don't see as often in modern gaming but fits the context of the list.

Games these days have mostly downplayed the theme of losing or death - I find that extremes on either side would make for unique gaming experience. Like what if in failure you didn't die, but became scarred and your enemy kidnapped a member of your family? Or the other side, what if you died and someone took your place?
kwaselow's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/04/2009 15:22
kwaselow
@LLIINNKK

That's the way Mr. Monocle writes. He's not going to stop writing that way just because you don't like it. Quite frankly, as a lover of satire, I love the way Jim Sterling writes because he does it well, and he's consistent with it.
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