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Teh Bias: The Simpler Things

4:20 PM on 08.13.2010   |   ThaJinx

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[For his Monthly Musing, ThaJinx shares his dislike for what he views to be overly-complicated games, and tells us why he thinks simpler is better. Want to post your own Monthly Musing? Post your own blog now! -- JRo]

It's important to me for you to know that I'm not a troll. I'm going to say things in this article that will irritate a good chunk of you, and I need you to understand why. Pulling a page from Douglas Adams, I will alleviate you of any stresses or anxieties you may feel while reading this by saying that I've played the titles I crucify in this article, from start to finish, multiple times, and enjoyed doing so. I need you to know this so that you will understand when I say that these are terribly designed games, and that the quality of a game's design does not directly correlate to the amount of fun one may have while playing it. Fun is subjective. Quality of design is objective.

I was asked some months ago by a friend of mine whether I felt that large, complex games lacked the ability for strong design and construction that seems almost implicit in more minimal titles, and while my answer to that question was and still is "no," it certainly raised the issue of a possible bias, which I'm willing to acknowledge here and now. It's true, I'm more likely to buy a game made by Team ICO than I am nearly any other group or developer, but it's not because I have loyalty to the brand so much as what they've put out into the industry.

I prefer the simpler things in gaming. I would absolutely qualify that preference as a bias.



There's a (perhaps unfair) perspective that the more a company attempts to hype a game before its release, the more likely it is that that game will probably not be too great. Whether deserved or not, I tend to feel that same way about the level of production value that goes into a game. Knowing that a company has dumped millions of dollars into licensing fees, voice acting, and technology almost always makes me immediately suspicious of the true quality of a title. This apprehension, I suspect, stems from the feeling that a well-designed game relies on a solid construction of control and level design, as well as an ingenious implementation of story if necessary. If the money and time are being dropped into celebrity voicing, new technology, and orchestral scores, then clearly the much more important foundational elements of the game should be polished to perfection, right? I've seldom found this to be the case.

Take, for example, Super Mario Galaxy, a game that has received what should certainly be called unanimous praise and tremendous commercial success. I hate it, honestly and sincerely. I've gone so far as to consider putting a bounty on my soul, because to hate a game that everyone loves means that I must not have one, or that it's at least vacated its vessel. But it's true, I view Galaxy as a terrible example of quality game design due to its spoon-feeding puzzle and level construction, its arbitrary gameplay mechanics, and its unnecessary control decisions. So much of the experience is based on the wow factor supplied by the game's impressive musical score, visual gusto, and technical wizardry that it is so incredibly easy to completely miss the fact that it mostly plays itself and treats its players like idiots.



An easier example could be found in Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, one of the most expensive games ever made (around $60 million), as well as one of the most terribly designed. So much was piled into the theatrics of the title that it somehow managed to digress into parody, collapsing under its own weight because the mechanics of play couldn't support the indulgences of the plot.

I've even stated my apprehensions about Metroid: Other M, which has yet to even be released. It's a title that appears to have more production value pumped into it than any of the preceding titles in the series, one that will focus much more on story and the communication of plot, which I fear has the potential to completely unmake the gameplay that I treasure and revere in the Metroid franchise. I haven't played it, and I haven't read any reviews of it. Do I have a reason to trash-talk it? Absolutely not. But I am suspicious.

My qualm is based in a theory of necessity, that the elements that do not directly enhance gameplay will instead hinder or distract from it. These unnecessary additions should be purged, stripped away, until such a time that they are valuable to the overall experience instead of trying to be the overall experience. In other words, I am a minimalist.

It should be no small wonder that games like Another World, ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are landmarks of game design to me. I don't feel that Mario has quite reached the bar he set in Super Mario Bros. 3. I still feel that Super Metroid is one of few uniquely sublime game experiences. What sets these games apart is that their mechanics and controls are simple but compelling, their level design brilliant, their environments telling what story you actually need to know. You are not constantly buried in exposition, forced to endure cutscenes that rob you of the experience of plot through play. You are not told how you should feel, you simply do it.



These are titles that prove that the mechanics of a game don't have to be incredibly complex to be good, they just have to be strong, sturdy, capable of holding up the structure of the entire game. Just as a car without an engine is just a shell, a game that's not propelled by play is not a proper game. Without strong gameplay, you can't have the type of level design that truly takes advantage of those mechanics, and if you don't have that then why should anyone actually care about the type of story you're trying to tell? These games tell their stories through the worlds that they pull you into. Those worlds are communicated through the atmosphere of the game's levels. Those levels are made possible by strong, fundamental design.

Maybe you could understand how, after years of watching games of this caliber float under the radar while truly mediocre big-budget games reap big profits, I have begun to equate production value and hype with a notable lack of quality. Believe me when I say that while for the most part I feel this is typical, I also realize that this is simply not fair to hold it as a rule.

It's so easy for me to overlook true quality in games with a high degree of production value. The Gears of Wars and the Half-Life 2s are easy for me to ignore when they garner such a high degree of universal praise, as though the recognition of the world at large absolves me from recognizing their greatness. It is truly an elitist stance to suppose that I must champion the more experimental and minimal games, upholding them as the model of what every other game in the world should aspire to be like. It rarely dawns on me that the fact that these games are the exception is part of what makes them exceptional.

Minimalism is not a guarantee that a game will be any good, but the ones I prefer tend to have minimalistic qualities to them, which indicates my bias against games with greater production values. I must constantly remind myself that large, complex games are not unlike Howard Hughes' H-4 Hercules, in that the scale or weight of the undertaking is well and truly irrelevant; so long as it follows simple rules, it can fly.








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65 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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PlayHangman's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/04/2010 03:19
PlayHangman
As much as I'd love to be all over simplicity when it comes to design and storytelling, I don't find this minimalist style particularly compelling. The user Byronic Man said it much better than I ever could:

"Well, I can't really jump on this idea because storytelling that is exclusive to gaming - that is, told through game mechanics - happens to be fairly minimalistic as far as narrative goes. If you consider your examples of SotC, Silent Hill and GoW, the storytelling-as-mechanics is largely relegated to an extrapolation of theme which, while sophistocated in form, does not offer a gripping experience to the player. It's good and nice but unless good storytelling is supplementing a story, you need something else (which is where, for me, 'fun' comes into... play)."

I find this minimalist style to be compelling in the form of gameplay, but in story there still needs to be that "something else" to make it truly engaging. I don't know if I'm the only one who feels this way. Nonetheless, good blog.
Agent Oli's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/04/2010 05:41
Agent Oli
Play is a sphere of activity with a disposition unto itself, and its rules can be unclear and temporary form one moment to the next.

Play occurs within games, but at what length games go to impose rules directly affects player freedom.

I understand your point of view when you mention Mario Galaxy(1?), a game one would expect to should encourage play. Instead imposes linearity and limits exploration.

I agree a strong design should give you room, and freedom to just play, this is not to say Noby Noby Boy is the pinnacle of good design. As we all play games in search of around four different outcomes; victory, play(exploration), social interaction or to combat others.
PvPPY's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/04/2010 08:30
PvPPY
I feel the same way about AAA titles. They don't focus on the fundamental aspects of what they're trying to deliver. While I love flashy graphics and all that, I'll often find myself playing something on PSP when I could be gaming on a high-def console just because the limited hardware forces the developers to focus harder on the game itself than the presentation or extras.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/04/2010 09:41
Occams electric toothbrush
I have found sublime simplicity in the video posted on Stevil's Blog. It's an old lady getting hit in the head with a shovel. It's a near perfect moment. Perhaps if I was drinking a beer and eating a cupcake while watching it I could feel the love my father never gave me warm my withered, bat heart.
mjw282's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/04/2010 18:04
mjw282
Good post, I enjoyed it and it got me thinking. I have trouble, however, understanding how the amount of fun you have with a game has no correlation to the quality of game design. I had a ton of fun playing MGS4, I consider it's gameplay for the most part tight and responsive, deep, and engaging. If there is one problem with the MGS series, it would be that the long and sometimes convoluted story feels too separate from the actual gameplay. The fact that the game basically begs you to skip every cut scene after your first playthrough is proof. I don't know if this is bad game design or not. The story is good, the gameplay is great, the game is fun. Isn't the hallmark of a great game the fact that you'll play through it again and again long after the story gets stale? MGS4 is always fun for me to play whereas Mario Galaxy (which I have not played) sounds like it would get tedious by the way you describe it and I wouldn't play it twice, but that's because it isn't fun. Fun and game design are peas in a pod.
ThaJinx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/04/2010 19:43
ThaJinx
@mjw282: The reason I say that design and fun aren't necessarily connected is specifically because "fun" is something dependent entirely on the player, whereas there are certain staples of good game design. I felt like Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 3 were the most successful of the franchise, but that Metal Gear Solid 4 kind of lost sight of what made those games successful. But I still had a lot of fun playing them.

To give you an example in the opposite direction, I felt that Bioshock was, for the most part, a very decently designed experience, but I never once in the two times I played it thought that it was a fun game. I honestly couldn't play it for more than 45 minutes to an hour, because it was not, for me, personally, a fun game to play. I really like Bioshock, but I hated playing it.

I honestly agree that it sounds absurd to say that a good game can be not fun to play, and a terrible game can be a lot of fun to play, but I mean it when I say that it can be true in a completely non-ironic sense. I hate comparing films and games, but this sort of warrants it: have you ever seen Live Free or Die Hard? I love that movie, but I would never, eve under pain of death, say that it was a good film. But I don't love it because it's *bad* either, it was just a fun ride while it lasted. I feel that when you strip away Metal Gear Solid 4's more masturbatory constructs (namely the cutscenes) the gameplay experience tends to be a lot like that: still full of the unnecessary puzzle and design decisions that don't make any sense, but still a lot of fun in a lot of places.

Obviously, I feel that a well designed game should be fun. But I don't think that having a well designed game ensures that said game is fun. Either way, you made some great points that I really need to spend some time thinking about. Thanks a lot for the response.
Beyamor's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/05/2010 08:59
Beyamor
I like this. It reflects some ideas I'm playing with. I don't know if it's right, but I'm not sure such metrics matter. Still, thanks for the read.
Bluth Banana Stand's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/11/2010 13:16
Bluth Banana Stand
Fapped just for the Another World nod! Flashback was great too.
Toadofsky's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 16:33
Toadofsky
Thank you for putting the words I've wanted to write so long about the problems I have with modern games.

I've become more and more distant and less enthralled with gaming today, it just doesn't really have much to interest me these days.

Again, great article.
fetusmilk's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 16:40
fetusmilk
agreed
NoMoneyLeftBoy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 16:48
NoMoneyLeftBoy
Is their scope for the addition of what addiction is in this discussion to?

I've been pondering recently why, for example, a game like Modnation Racers has me currently wanting to repeatedly play it, as opposed to the 'get it done' approach I've found myself taking with so many other blockbuster titles recently.

I'm so glad you mention Mario Galaxy to as I think its a prime example of a game that hampered by its self-confidence in a way earlier iterations never were. It convinces the player (like a game show host) that they're having a great time with a great game when in actual fact they're staring at a levitating, star-swirling Mario who's filling them up with a bitter hollow sense of accomplishment.
rockydil's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 16:53
rockydil
As I read this, I couldn't stop thinking about Katamari Damacy. To me this game was the ultimate in "simpler is better" game design. Using visual cues to dual-thumbstick around until your ball got big enough not only opens doors for all kinds of neat design options, but when combined with a buttload of GOODIES to roll up (in a sense, player rewards), was really fun too.

I wonder what kind of esteem the blogger holds KD in...
Jomonoe's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 16:56
Jomonoe
Well deserving of front page, for me at least.

I think I am the opposite of you in some regards. I tend to buy into hype for games I love such as Mass Effect 2, Brutal Legend, MGS4, etc. and get disappointed with them afterwords. There's only one game I've played that truly lived up to all of my expectations and more and that is Valkyria Chronicles.

Have you played that game? I think that it strikes a balance between minimal controls and compelling gameplay. It's the only game I've played that has a story that works in tandem with the gameplay mechanics.
Shinta 2's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:02
Shinta 2
"I view Galaxy as a terrible example of quality game design [...] it mostly plays itself and treats its players like idiots."

Sorry, but you sound like an idiot. Did you play anything beyond world 1? Because I have a hard time believing you did. Did you get the purple coins in the toy galaxy? I would bet money you didn't. And why on earth would you cite Mario 3 as the best one, but ignore 64, and Sunshine? Sunshine was super difficult at times.

You have every right to not like the game. But if you actually want to say that Mario Galaxy is bad game design, then that's just contrarian bullshit. Galaxy is one of the most polished and original games in recent memory. Did you ever see the matter splatter galaxy? There are 100 different reasons why you're wrong on this one.
Mr Andy Dixon's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:02
Mr Andy Dixon
Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing!
DaTgUy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:04
DaTgUy
I completely agree with you.

I believe another title which this shows is MW2's multiplayer. IMO they took the shooter out of the shooter, and made a MP experience that more or less plays itself.
copyofcopy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:14
copyofcopy
mario galaxy (and its sequel) give the player the option to play through to 'the end' of the game in a mostly resistance-free path, but also offer, to those who want it, some extremely difficult and satisfying levels. it doesn't sound like you really gave the game a chance.
Gol-D-Roger's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:17
Gol-D-Roger
I wholly agree when you say, "that a good game can be not fun to play, and a terible game can be alot of fun to play". I've felt like that for years, and one of the reasons I disagree with putting a score at the end of a review. But I couldn't disagree more, when you say that Gears of War is an excepton to the minimalism rule.
jawshoeuh's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:18
jawshoeuh
Great read!

As much as I love the MGS series and enjoyed MGS4 I couldn't help but feel the same way. When I completed the game the first time I felt that I had spent something like 80% of the game watching and 20% playing.

As much as I want to like Bioshock I still haven't finished the first game! I keep putting it in occasionally and after an hour or so I'm usually done. I'm often confused on where to go next. There's an almost constant barrage of security bots coming after me and MOST of the time I'm not sure what I did to trigger them. When a mix of security bots and/or splicers and/or big daddies get together the combat is so visually bat shit fucking crazy insane that I can't see what the hell is going on and the game becomes all about firing blindly and hoping I have enough health packs to survive. Trying to switch between weapons and plasmids on the fly is a frustrated mess (especially considering the afore mentioned visual meltdown happening on screen during fire fights) and I finally figured out that it was much better to rely on using the weapon/plasmid selection wheel to effectively pause the game so that I could choose my desired smite tool.

I just realized that maybe I DON'T want to like Bioshock as much as I thought as I could continue that rant with several more points. ha.

Half Life 2 is another one that I really want to love (and in a lot of ways I do love it), but I can say that I had almost no fun whatsoever playing that game.The premise, the environments, the characters, etc all call out to me, but the gameplay usually just made my head hurt. It's a fantastic game and I'm happy to say I've completed all the episodes thus far, but I look back on my time with that game as a total chore. Pace was the trick with that game and imho the pacing was way out of whack. Most of the cool stuff was over in a flash while most of the tedious stuff tended to go on forever (driving sections anyone?). What I liked most about Half Life 2 was... Portal. hahaha

I've been pretty addicted to Fallout 3 lately and that's another game that feels a lot more like work than fun. GTA IV and Red Dead are in that same basket for me as well.

I feel like with a lot of these games I want to immerse myself in their worlds only to find that existing in those worlds isn't really very fun at all.

I'll stop rambling and just say again, awesome article.
bobyoko's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:19
bobyoko
you lost me at mario galaxy plays itself, that's a truly ignorant statement. judging by the games you cite as great works (and they undeniably are), it's obvious that you just like trial and error gameplay. i might point out that trial and error gameplay isn't that hard to create, you just leave all the explanations out of the game.
ThaJinx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:27
ThaJinx
@Shinta
I included a precursory disclaimer for people just like you. I played Mario Galaxy all the way through (120 stars) twice. So yes, I did play beyond world 1, I did get the purple coins in the toy galaxy, I did play the matter splatter galaxy. I did all of it with Mario, and I did all of it with Luigi.

I'm not trying to be contrarian. I said, straight out, that I had fun playing it. And I did! The best parts of it were those part that you've described, the elements that do rely on the player to have good reflexes and a firm understanding of the game's controls. I do, however, feel that overall, the game is poorly designed, and I'm totally willing to talk with you about why.

For the majority of the game, whenever you pick a star to pursue, all of the unnecessary portions of the level are blocked off or otherwise absent, effectively roping you off into only the are of play that the designers feel you should be taking advantage of. If there are any props nearby, like a branch, or spring, or swing, then they are only there because at that exact moment, for that exact objective, they are absolutely necessary for you to use. As actionbutton.net put it, because you CAN use them, you MUST use them. If that knowledge is not enough, the camera pans or zooms to focus on those props and how they relate to the rest of the landscape, putting the pieces together for you before you can put 2 and 2 together on your own. Blue stars are always within view of the camera when necessary. There are characters literally everywhere to offer you hints on exactly what you're supposed to be doing, when you're supposed to be doing it.

The power-ups are no better; when this game was released, there were more power-ups in it than there were in any other Mario game ever made, to the point where the only way they can be implemented is when they are absolutely necessary. They are not bonuses, like in other Mario titles. They are there because you have no other choice but to use them, and you can bet that when you see one, that the puzzle is meant for is literally right next to it. You are given absolutely no other recourse.

This is not gameplay. This is an interactive instruction manual. A painstakingly designed interactive instruction manual, I should add. Yes, it's polished, but you are literally led by the nose through the majority of it, and that is bad design.

I find it interesting that you call me out on feeling that Super Mario 3 is the superior title in the franchise, though, because that's not something I'm alone on. I don't talk trash on Super Mario Sunshine, because the hidden platformer levels in it were as perfect as anything in the Mario world could possibly be. But even Destructoid has had a vote cast on the series (http://www.destructoid.com/game-debate-to-the-death-super-mario-series-part-2-156071.phtml), and both Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World were favored to Mario 64. This is not just me being a retro junkie, and I'm not alone on it. It's fine that you disagree, but there's no reason to hurl personal insult into the mix.
Shinta 2's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:33
Shinta 2
@ThaJinx: I guess it's a good thing I didn't bet money lol.

I just can't believe you said it plays itself. I beat Ninja Gaiden 2 on Master Ninja and some of the stars on Galaxy were driving me insane. Lots of others were easy of course.

"It's fine that you disagree, but there's no reason to hurl personal insult into the mix."

All right, fine. My bad for doing that.
ThaJinx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:36
ThaJinx
@bobyoko
Is trial and error gameplay the spectral opposite of having your hand held? Because if it is, in that case you may be right. I don't feel like it's wrong of me to prefer to be able to examine a situation and figure out the answer to a problem on my own. If a game is going to present you with a problem, and then systematically show you how to solve it, what exactly are you getting out of playing it? That's the qualm I have with Super Mario Galaxy, and it's one I've arrived at through the experience of having played it to death.
Matt Welch's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 17:46
Matt Welch
"I hate it, honestly and sincerely."

You and I both know this is trolling. Saying "I'm not trolling" is not the same as not trolling.

"I'm not trying to be contrarian"

Saying Mario Galaxy is poorly designed is being contrarian. It's the very definition of doing so.
ndschroede23's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:03
ndschroede23
@Matt Welch

What? Trolling - if I'm not mistaken - is the citation of inflammatory opinions with the sole intent of receiving inflammatory responses - for the lulz, if you will. Examples include (sometimes) sexualchocolate and (arguably) Jim Sterling. He's using this admittedly unpopular and uncommon opinion in the process of proving a point. Trolling would be "Super Mario Galaxy sucks, anyone who thinks otherwise is a retard."

And that statement IS contrarian, you're right. Contrarian in the sense that it's contrary to the popular opinion. But what I'm sure he meant was that it wasn't his intention to be contrary, but rather it was an accidental outcome. He formed an opinion, it just happened to be the opposite of the popular opinion.
TheOrangeFellow's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:29
TheOrangeFellow
The games you like are about trial and error. That's not actually gameplay.
bobyoko's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:39
bobyoko
so, if i'm reading the comments here correctly, you 100% galaxy while thinking it was a poorly built game? you spent the, what, eight or more hours it takes to play a game that you say you hate? that's something i have a hard time finding sense with. anyway, on to my main point. when you say that the game only gives you an item when absolutely need it to complete a course, you're not quite correct. i remember more than a few instances where power ups were given out only so you could have fun with them. is what you say true about being required to use power ups in a certain way to finish levels true? yes, of course. does that constitute poor design? i don't think it does when you consider everything else that the game did. also, following your logic, the ENTIRE fps genre is guilty of poor design. same goes for the rpg genre, and many other huge names in gaming.

now, i've got to say that i do agree with your idea that current day games hold your hand too much of the time. it is an element that detracts from gameplay, and i would also like to see these tendencies of the industry go away. the thing is, it's never going to happen. as more people pick up the hobby, it forces devs to make games to the least common denominator, games for dumbasses. for the rest of us, that love what gaming used to be, there are indie games.

both your article and comments have given me a reason to actually think today, thanks for that.
burningsoup's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:39
burningsoup
Simplicity is in the eye of the beholder. It's an understandable bias to have. But you contradict yourself so much in this article, it's difficult to take seriously.
sqlrob's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:46
sqlrob
@TheOrangeFellow:

Having the solution not immediately next to the problem is not the same as trial and error. If you have to resort to trial and error, it's a poorly designed game.
Marioland's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:50
Marioland
I agree with the most of the article except the SMG part. Yes, the game has bombastic tunes and it bears the title of graphical Mekka for the Wii, but I find the gameplay simple enough and well structured. In fact, better than the most games of this generation. It doesn't lose itself on taking it off the player from the game itself, like Metal Gear (all of them) at one point of another. It lacks cinematics and a touching backstory. It's all gameplay and the exploition of it. But that's a matter of opinion I guess. I agree with the general idea though! Thanks for the great read!
Electrium's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 18:59
Electrium
I have such a hard time these days trying to understand why some people consider games an "interactive tutorial," where others "build on the same mechanics."

If anything the article did make me think, I'll give it that. Maybe I'll be back to articulate on stuff if I can wrap my head around everything.
Sven Van de Perre's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:29
Sven Van de Perre
The statement is true, but the main example is probably used to attract lots of feedback. MGS4 is a much better example. And so is Bioshock. Which is really a lesser version of System Shock 2 (a game the did years earlier). And System Shock II was just a blatant copy of System Shock 1 (By Looking Glass, I think). The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is another example. Both System Shock and Oblivion have an arrow at the top of the screen that shows you where to go. And if you turn it off, you're lost. Like a blind man having a guide dog and getting around, or having no guide dog and being hopelessly lost. The actual skill and brain activity to advance in the game, is being kept to a minimum, just because the designers aren't really designers, just guys who made it to the design chair, but don't really belong there.

Portal, that's game design. And so are old school games like UFO: Enemy Unknown (also known as X-Com... and don't even get me started on the FPS remake), Braid, Half Life 1, Street Fighter IV, Rez and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
ThaJinx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:34
ThaJinx
@mattrdroid
I never mentioned Super Mario Galaxy 2, because I've never played it. And I never said that I didn't enjoy it's predecessor, I said it was poorly designed, and that that's why I disliked it. The same goes for MGS4; I played through it several times, and loved doing it, but I don't identify it as the pinnacle of gaming that others might.

There's seriously no need to get huffy and call names; this article wasn't about those games, it was about admitting to a bias in terms of the games that I prefer. People should play what they like, and anyone who tries to tell them otherwise, or rob them of the pleasures they get from the experience, should be ashamed of themselves. I've only tried to state my own opinions and back them up with logical arguments, as I would expect anyone else to when stating a case. I'm sorry if I've upset you, but your opinion is still your own, and I'm not trying to change your mind.
BalloonFighter's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:51
BalloonFighter
I love Out of This World too but you have to admit that that game is almost like a Dragons Lair type game. Sure you don't have the flashes telling you where to go but you are forced through that story none the less. Again it is one of my favorites but I don't think it was a good example.
Bluth Banana Stand's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:52
Bluth Banana Stand
@TheJinx

I can't say I 100% agree with you (Mario) but you totally have some good things to say. Probably why I've traded so many next gen titles once I finished them while I still hold on to older cartridges and re-purchase classics on virtual console. I think you'd be more a Maniac Mansion type of person.

Re: hostility...that's what happens when you transcend the c-blogs.
BalloonFighter's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:54
BalloonFighter
I guess I mean "Out of This World" plays itself more than "Mario Galaxy".
Badpenny's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:57
Badpenny
I loved out of this world.
ndschroede23's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 19:59
ndschroede23
@mattrodroid

Yet here you are. Clearly your staggering superiority has not been significant enough to warrant your leaving.
Farenheit's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 20:02
Farenheit
I disagree, but good blog nonetheless.
ThaJinx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 20:33
ThaJinx
@mattrodroid
Simplicity is not a word I'm equating with ease of difficulty. Mario 3 has basic commands of run, jump, shoot, and that structure is simple enough to enable designers to make a lot of really incredible levels to form good gameplay.

I have also elaborated on my position on Super Mario Galaxy in this thread, so you're welcome to take the time to read the comments section.

On a personal note, I just want to make sure that I understand your perspective to mean that because it is highly likely that someone in this post will act like an asshole, you are entitled to do so, without any other good reason.
Malik's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 20:50
Malik
It's a nice article, but I would have liked you to juxtapose highly budgeted games that have the simplicity you desire against other high budget games that have faulty game design, by your definition. As is, your article seems to draw a line in the sand between the big budget games and "hyped*" games. I believe something like Mirror's Edge would fit. Well the time trial portion of the game anyway.


*Obviously both ICO and Shadow of the Colossus featured plenty of acclaim after they were released by ICO was still undermentioned until SotC and there was plenty of skeptism all the way to the release of SotC.
Grimandi's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 21:32
Grimandi
This was mostly enjoyable to read and definitely thought provoking (I signed up to reply) but I think you are wrong on quite a few counts. And it all comes back to this:

Quality of design is objective

Because it isn't, definitely not in the way you are using it (or at least in the way it reads like you are using it.) I would say SMG is near perfectly designed because it does exactly what it sets out to do in making the game as fun as possible for the largest amount of people possible. It walks you through most of the "puzzles" because it isn't a puzzle game and many players need that help. But that is why I would say it is an example of quality design and you would not. Thus making design subjective.
ThaJinx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 21:37
ThaJinx
@Grimandi
I concur. Good call, I really appreciate your response.
Grimandi's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 22:05
Grimandi
Ah, I don't really know what to say now, I expected you to argue your side a bit harder! Interesting and well-written article nonetheless.
josmeister's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 22:14
josmeister
To add to what Grimaldi said, I think that you are thinking of Super Mario Galaxy as more than it really is, being fooled by its incredible production values and big planets and thus believing it is more than it really is: a linear platformer. The 3d in Mario could easily just be considered, moreso than most other games, as a way to improve the beauty of the game, while keeping the game as simple(going from the begining to the star) as super mario bros 3 or super mario world. I do, however wish that they had made a more extensive use of the power-ups, as they are extremely fun to use.
Toadofsky's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 23:06
Toadofsky
Seeing some of these comments, shows me what's wrong with gamers....
Adonai's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 23:27
Adonai
And of course, out come the Ninty fanboys to defend SMG2. ZOMG, someone's not fellating Mario??? Noes!!1
otogi_guy's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 23:31
otogi_guy
Wanda & the Collossus has weak controls, a camera that works against you, and the level design was hardly present (you push up or down to hold on, then push to stab, that is it). Three years in development along with an orchestral score from a star composer, and according to wiki, Sony putting its weight behind a massive advertising campaign.

If the money and time are being dropped into celebrity voicing, new technology, and orchestral scores, then clearly the much more important foundational elements of the game should be polished to perfection, right? I've seldom found this to be the case.
Advenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/13/2010 23:37
Advenger
I've been trying to compose my thoughts and feelings for nearly half and hour now, and I've come to the conclusion that I can't possibly understand your argument. The more I pour over it, I'm enraged not by the fact that you hate the games, but WHY you hate them. It is the why I can't understand, and that's what angers me. I'm trying hard to see this from your perspective, but it's so far out of skew of my own that his is an impossible task. I will say though, you seem to be preventing yourself from enjoying the simpler things about these games because you seem to be over-thinking their intent.


Also, two things:
1. I can't make any correlation to Douglas Adams, and trying to soften the blow;
2. 'The Spruce Goose' did fly.
Pseudo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/14/2010 00:17
Pseudo
I love it when gamers create this "show/tell" dichotomy and act like it's the be-all end-all of game design.

Yes, ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are sublime games. Yes, they show. Yes, this design decision works for those games. But it's not because video games are inherently better that way: it's because those games were designed with minimalistic, atmosphere-building elements from the ground up. It works in that style of game.

Persona 4 is also a sublime game. Sure, it shows (through often great dialogue), but in terms of gameplay elements it mostly tells, and that's a damn good thing. I personally think that figuring out the mechanics of Persona fusion on my own would be more frustrating than gratifying, and I think a majority of gamers agree with me.

It's funny that you say that Out of this World and Super Mario Galaxy are so disparate in quality when they're so similar gameplay-wise. In both games, you do the same basic actions over and over in slightly different ways. They're both hyper-linear, they both discourage adventuring (no, looking out the top window on the elevator does NOT count as exploration) and they're both beloved by the gaming community. I also played Super Mario Galaxy 1 (and 2) to completion, and I will tell you that the game did not play itself. Sure, the game told me how to do something on numerous occasions, but it was up to me as the player to do them. Out of this World lacks this, which often results in puzzles having questionable solutions. If this one arbitrary designation is what keeps these two great games so far apart in quality, then I highly suggest you reconsider your opinion on the matter. I also suggest you stop reading actionbutton.net, as it's pretty much the most pretentious (and bitter) gaming site out there.

In short, tutorials are a good thing 95% of the time, and I don't understand why people like you disagree.
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