[Sundays with Sagat is a video series where a man named Sagat talks to you about videogames. This is serious business.]
Sick of Jonathan Holmes E3 10 videos yet? Well then, you're in for a treat, as his less comedic, more disorganized, multiple scarred alter-ego is back in full effect. I present to you the season 1 finale of Sundays with Sagat.
Originally, this video was over an hour long. Sagat chained together a massive word combo, defining all the different types of gamers; lapsed gamers, indie gamers, fantasy gamers, realism gamers, blockbuster-event gamers, connoisseur gamers, mono-game gamers, mascot gamers, online gamers, gore gamers, story gamers, art gamers, anime gamers, retro gamers, genre gamers, the list went on and on.
After all that, I managed to reel him in and get him to just focus on the much discussed Casual vs. Hardcore split. Still, his redefinitions are incomplete. I'm particularly annoyed with his use of the term "Nintendo gamers". It's just such a stupid generalization. In fact, aren't all generalizations stupid?
I was brave enough to actually confront the mighty Sagat with this controversial idea. "Why label games and gamers at all? Do you really know someone who perfectly fits any of your many definitions?" His response? "I know that, you know that, and most not-stupid people know that. However, it's human nature to name things. We crap, we eat, we sleep, we make whoopie, and we label stuff, including each other. It's unblockable. I'm just trying to reduce the chip damage."
It was pretty humble stuff coming from an ego maniac like Sagat. Magat would be proud.
Contest:
2:00 PM on 06.20.2010
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also the half hearted attempts at humor mixed with serious business is atrocious
Oddly, I feel like as soon as this generation came around, a lot of people saw that they had to draw a line between people who played games coming into the Wii phenominon, and people who just started because of it. And the result was a repurposing of Casual vs. Hardcore terminology. For instance, I always thought of some people who only played the original Playstation for sports games and the like as sort of "casual" since they were new gamers who didn't really think too much about what they were playing or if there was anything outside of the games they played exclusively then.
As such, I carried that sort of interpretation with me for a while, and still today, I think of certain individuals who drink beer and whoop-it-up to a game of Call of Duty every night, and are only interested in the next Call of Duty, as "casual gamers. " Just as some of might label someone with a Wii who only plays games that start with "Wii". That aside, I was quite young when I came up with these beliefs, and they aren't really that useful today.
But so it goes, people like to categorize groups quickly and easily. So I think the words "casual" and "hardcore", as flawed as they are, will be around for some time.
I mean, the idea behind the hardcore gamer is being pretentious and elitist about the hobby. You will be demeaning other players who are not at the same level as you in, order to justify your dedication to the medium, and how games should be made for the core players. (Because obviously hardcore gamers are the majority *rolleyes*)
Nintendo is amazing and I love everything they've done since the NES days. Pushing them aside everything in a single group and calling it the best thing ever, misses the point you were trying to make.
I made a comment on your Bit.Trip video talk about Hardcore gamers. It seems like it's a vicious circle, since each and everyone of us will see dedication committed to our hobby differently.
I'm not even sure if a proper term would be applicable for everybody either.
I consider myself to be a literate and an enthusiast of gaming. I try not to go in that elitist bullshit, that so many people seem to adopt.
Great ideas overall Mr.Sagat
Also, TIGER!
This video touched on some good points. It's a proud day to be a Nintendo gamer (a term which I take no offense to, since it described the type of games I enjoy the most precisely - though that by no means is to say I only play games by Nintendo)
DON'T FIRE SAGAT.
THINK OF HIS POOR MOTHER.
Rev, come back. Without you, the most interesting editor is Sterling. That's not a good thing.
I agree that the distinction between casual and hardcore gamers is 100% bullshit. Everybody has a different definition, so the divide has to be arbitrary. Though I'd take issue with the "Nintendo loyalists VS everyone else" model. Show me somebody that only plays games on the Wii or DS and I'll show you a man that already likes Darksiders, Shadow Complex, Castle Crashers, Bayonetta, etc; he just doesn't know it yet.
I just checked out your (super short) post history. You've made nothing but negative comments since you signed up. Easy, esé.
I agree that hardcore / casual gamers are really stupid categories to throw people in. Sure, there's family-oriented games or party-oriented games that don't cater to single player gamers or online competitive multi-player gamers, but to assume that everyone who bought Let's Dance is only interested in games like Wii Music, Wii Party, and Carnival Games? That's ridiculous. What's even more disappointing is that Nintendo seems to believe these categories exist (their E3 conference showed this), yet their most well-received games blur the line between "hardcore" and "casual."
"my mother..... Magat."
What's that you say? Did I even listen to the content in video? Yes I did. I can't argue or add anything to that so I'm focusing on the sweat and armpit hair.
I love these videos! I would like to see them rehearsed more though. Too often you seem to be trying to figure out what to say next.
My hobby is ruined...
I heard cycling was good for you?
what he said
Good points Jon.
Were all gamers at heart and we should just enjoy the games.
We all like different genres.
Keep it up!!!!! I want to see more of the Sagat Family.
I agree, the nintendo games that are good seem to completely ignore a lot of this market research stuff (except for stuff like wii sports and whatever). Take for example Super Mario Galaxy 2; the style in the game is not exactly the stuff you would find in Barney or Dora the Explorer, but at the same time it is not really stuff that appeals to teenagers with violence or conflict. Market researchers would probably say that this is because they're trying to appeal to the widest audience possible, but I think what it is is that the people actually working on Super Mario Galaxy didn't care much for appealing to people, they just made what they wanted. Which is why I find it strange that Nintendo markets their games as "this appeals to this" and "this appeals to that". It's like the people developing the games and the people marketing the games for Nintendo (and many other developers) don't talk to each other that much.
@ Bigmoose85- Then why'd you keep watching it?
FOR SHAME!
Another awesome video BTW, thanks for making these!
He tried it again as an adult, but it just wasn't the same.
:(
Also great video
I know that personally, I'd part with my PS3 before I'd part with my Wii, but with Scott Pilgrim and The Last Guardian just on the horizon, it would be like a Sophie's Choice-level internal conflict.
Skyward Sword is the deal breaker. That game was fun.
@ Grimspoon- Sagat's weird like that. But don't worry, you'll get plenty of Fagot in future shows. That dude is a badass.
Keep 'em coming mate.
J. Holmes was awesome.
Sagat was weird pseudo-acting that degenerated into a rant that wasn't funny.
These two people have nothing in common.
Yesterday on the Gaijin games thread, trying to pick out different genres, I definitely thought of the distinct difference in content I'm willing to get into. LittleBigPlanet, Katamari Damacy, and Flower are Nintendo games under that genre idea. Sly Cooper would be a Nintendo game.
So... no. We can't just give that genre to Nintendo. Other companies are doing it too, albeit less so.
- RANDOM POINT OF CONTENTION for a different topic entirely: I think That is the sole biggest reason other companies can't get their "hardcore" titles to sell on Wii. They aren't Nintendo games, meaning they aren't quirky and happy enough. Sonic however, sells just f***ing fine.
- BACK ON TOPIC. When I actually describe the kinds of games I play, I do it solely by mood. "I like happy things with color."
So I am a Happy Gamer. Everything I want to play fits that: even Portal- which is hilarious, Mario, Zelda, WiiSports, Smash Bros... maybe less-so Shadow of the Colossus, but we're all going to have to make exceptions to any formula.
So there are Happy Gamers and there are ... eh, fuck it. We're just going to have to accept the use of such retarded black and white misnomers in the common media and clarify our tastes individually.
To be quite frank, they only separated us into two categories in the first place in order to make an easy to understand meme that they could make generalizations about. Correctness is not their concern.
Aside from that, Sagat is spot on.
The Hardcore/Casual divide is mainly separated by genre and that's bullshit. There are "casual" gamers logging tons of hours into videogames on a daily basis. That is definitely hardcore.
Please protect me from Sagat. You are my favorite editor ever. I am pretty sure I could withstand the full super meter, but I'd only just be barely living afterwards, and the fiery dog crap would probably deal the final blow to my itty bitty shred of leftover health.
(Which incidentally, is why Smash Bros is better than Street Fighter- I could totally just tech off the walls of my house and end up with a higher percentage of damage, rather than being killed by dog poo...)
I'm looking through the peep hole though, and I can't see him...
-They make kiddy games: Oh really?, so if a game is rated anything below M or T it sucks by default? Braid, Peggle and Plants vs Zombies disagree with you.
-The Wii has shovelware: uh-huh, like the PS2 and PS1 had zero of that, but ok, let's assume for one sec they didn't, is anyone forcing you to buy crap game #125641 instead of, let's say NMH2? no? then GTFO.
-Nintendo doesn't make good adult/western/genre_x games: ok, first, could you define "good western/adult/genre_x game"? if you want a shitload of blood, guns, explosions and the like go buy something else, every gamer worth it's title knows what to expect from Nintendo and that is plain good games, if they don't fit your tastes that's fine, but please don't make-up BS to excuse yourself for not liking them, have some balls and directly state that you simply don't, period.
-Nintendo abandoned the core: *rollseyes*, so 4 Marios, 2 Zeldas, 2 Metroids, 1 Wario, the return of Punch-Out, the return of DK (to name a few) is not enough for you? go check any of the Nintendo's previous consoles and tell me if they ever released as much consistently good games. Just because they make extra games that aim at a different demographic than yours they sold out? that's as stupid as i've ever heard and this year pretty fucking ironic for your cause considering Kinetic and Move. If you don't like Nintedo's IPs that's your problem, buy a X360, PS3 or 3rd party titles, which takes me to...
-Nintendo sets the bar too high for 3rd party games: of all BS excuses this just takes the cake, so it's Nintendo's fault that 3rd parties release shit on their console because they're afraid to be compared to 1st party titles? Jesus! the stuff you hear from so called homosapiens nowadays.
"casual gamer" is just the most recent label on a history of hating whatever console you don't have/like, it happened on every gen before and it will probably happen on every gen to come, like Yahtzee said "people can be filthy fanboys and join a faction and defend it to death or be glorious gaming masters and play good games no matter the platform including PC and handhelds"(more or less accurate), it's up to them.
My ex's mom used to ( at the time, I don't know 'bout now ) play at least 4 hours a day games like Cake mania, Bejeweled, Zuma, etc. I still consider her as the 'hardcorest' gamer I've ever met. Even thought all she played was 'casual' games.
I think Holmes was just kidding about Sagat coming to kill me.