Suda 51: No More Heroes needs a new platform

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5:20 PM on 07.02.2009, Jim Sterling

75 comments | 7038 views

Suda 51: No More Heroes needs a new platform photo

#No More Heroes #Suda 51 #wii

Eccentric game designer and all around mentalist f*ckpot Suda 51 has lent a little more fuel to the fire started by Marvelous earlier, stating that No More Heroes "needs" to move away from the Wii in order for it to have any legs. The cult design hero has stated that he wants NMH to be big, but it'll take looking beyond the little white waggle box in order to make it happen.

"I really want to make NMH a big franchise," states Suda, "and with this second episode have bigger success. I’m putting a lot of care into developing this IP, as I feel there’s a lot of potential.

"I think this is the last NMH that is going to be developed on Wii. To expand NMH to new possibilities, we need a new platform. Wii is a great platform, but we’ve done everything we can with it now."

It's not often you'll see a game designer who thinks that moving away from the Wii is a key to success, but most people don't think quite like Goichi Suda. NMH probably stands a chance of getting into the hands of more appreciative gamers on the Xbox 360 or PS3, but at the end of the day, the game's success hinges on one thing and one thing only -- marketing.

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next 50 comments

64 comments | showing # 1 to 50

TheCleaningGuy

PS3 for your next game please, Suda.

HiddenAHB

Oh god, yes!
Why do you care with the casuals Suda? You know they won't play your amazing game, instead they will shake their asses in some plastic thing.
Come to the hardcore side, we don't bite(at least most of us don't).

Jin Champloo

I must say personally that I agree that in order for the series to be more successful it needs to move away from the Wii. I believe the problem is simply that it doesn't reach the full audience it could if it was a multi-platform franchise, for example. I actually think it would fare better if it was on all three consoles, perhaps with a similar engine reworked for lack of waggle on PS3 and 360.

Grobstein

"at the end of the day, the game's success hinges on one thing and one thing only -- marketing."

That's a true manifesto for quality, right there.

Monodi

As much I feel like the Wii will feel colder, Goichi deserves much more. I say lt him try his best on the new consoles.

Cocca

Multi-Platform please. I loved the original NMH, it was really greater than the sum of its parts.

Justice

"NMH probably stands a chance of getting into the hands of more appreciative gamers on the Xbox 360 or PS3."

I doubt that, there's a lot of "appreciative" gamers that own Wiis too, though I can see where you're coming from. Personally I think Suda was foolish to release the first game solely on Wii if this was his big plan, having completed the first game recently and enjoying the controls a lot, going to a 360 controller/DualShock/SixAxis will not be the same, it'll just be a button basher, not that NMH wasn't at times, but even still, the lack of motion controls will detract from the gameplay, and I don't think Natal could work well with a future game in the series.

If he thinks he's done everything he can with the Wii then so be it, but to move a franchise from one specific console to the rest, as in to not continue the series on the original console, is pretty lame, especially for those few that solely own Wiis.

Jin Champloo

I think it could work rather well on the 360 and PS3 and I don't see it as a button masher. I always thought it would translate well to a traditional control scheme, with combos being executed differently depending on the stance Travis has currently taken and a horizontal and vertical strike button.

Monodi

@HiddenAHB

I could do a sour grapes argument defending the Wii and the motion sensors but I won't bother mainly as it won't go anywhere.

Hopeless Savage

Keeping the same gameplay when moving to a system with a standard controller seems mad, so I wouldn't operate on the assumption that that's the plan.

CocoJambo

Suda51 games are still very niche no matter where it goes, but being such a westernised Japanese, I'm sure Suda wishes for it to be on the American 360.

Holyetheline

I just don't care about my Wii anymore so I don't buy games for it. I bought NMH, it was good, but it could have SHINED on a different console so much BRIGHTER.

Discarded Couch Sandwich

The only reason I don't like the idea of a multiplatform release is because in the back of my mind it'll make me think I have the lesser version when i'm playing the Wii one. (though judging by how good the motion combat felt in the first game, that probably wont be true)

I just hope an Xbox/PS3 version is announced after I've already finished it on the Wii. Then I can play it in bliss!

Jin Champloo

The only reason I could see the Wii as housing the inferior of the hypothetical multi-platform release is that it wouldn't have the AI or processing abilities of the other two consoles. However, that wouldn't bother me even if I DID have a Wii simply because I know that it would be a great game for the console anyway. The control scheme and the possibility of changing how the story is presented to take advantage of the other two consoles is the most interesting prospect to me though.

snotrocket

I totally passed on this till recently because I hate the wii. I'm very glad to see him say this. Wii can make for some cool games if it wasn't 2 calculators taped together

Tubatic

That's kind of dissappointing, to be honest. Suda's one of the few developers that seemed to actually get into what's good about the motion controls.

But, I can definitely dream up a NMH that would do very well on the PS3/360. If he builds it, we'll...

heh...

peachboy

suda is like valve on lsd crammed into one japanese man.
this is great news and he has my monaise guaranteed.

Steel Brotha

@ CocoJambo
Suda51 may be niche but putting a game like NMH on a casual centric console like the wii was stupid. Niche games aren't put out to sell. Their put out to share an idea, MGS is the perfect example of this, Fatal Frame, killer7. popular games but little sales.

Tubatic

@Steel Brotha

That didn't make any sense...

HiddenAHB

@Monodi

Nothing against the Wii, NMH is one of the games that makes good use of the Wiimote. But since the Wii is a casual console i think that his games don't get the audience that they deserve.

Jin Champloo

@Al3xand3r, no one here is flaming. What are you on about?

Jin Champloo

@Al3xand3r, what are you talking about? No one here is flaming. Also, Tubatic is right, that made no sense Steel Brotha, what were you trying to say?

Jin Champloo

@Al3xand3r, I suggested my roommate buy the first game for his Wii after he asked my opinion of a good buy for the console while at a gamestop fairly recently. We played through on his console, and I am certain he'll buy the sequel and we'll play that one as well. I would have bought it myself if I had a Wii, it was one of the few titles that made me consider purchasing one. No one is a hyprocrite. It seems to me you're trying to incite flaming.

megaStryke

No More Heroes is the best selling game in Grasshopper's history. Keep in mind that some previous Suda games, like killer7, were multiplatform. NMH sold best, whether that is thanks to the Wii or in spite of the Wii. It was so successful that a sequel is being made, which is almost unheard of for the company. If NMH is moving to other platformers, I highly doubt it has anything to do with Wii audiences not being receptive. More likely, Suda just wants to expand the franchise in as many directions as possible.

Jin Champloo

@Al3x Now I see what you're saying, the lag in posting the comments was confusing me for a moment, maybe the exposition by Jim was unnecessary, and maybe it wasn't but it doesn't detract from the fact that it would do Suda 51 well to consider developing the series for other consoles.

eggz

i hope he means next gen lol :( i gots no other consoles

FistfulOAwesome

(Agrees with Justice)

@Jin Champloo: I think it bothers Al3 that Jim twice said that "NMH probably stands a chance of getting into the hands of more appreciative gamers on the Xbox 360 or PS3". There, Jim assumes that the Wii doesn't have "appreciative" gamers (i.e. "Hardcore") and that the X/PS does. This couldn't be further from the truth. Most of Destructoid owns Wii's. Are we supposed to assume that since this is a "Hardcore" gamers site that we are all the exception? That's silly. There are plenty of "Hardcore" gamers on the Wii and Jim has twice today ignored their existence.

As for Suda himself, I wish him good luck, but as Justice has already written here (and me in that earlier topic), his games don't sell because they are niche. It doesn't matter what console you put them on, they don't appeal to a large enough audience. Put some ice on that cold, hard truth and drink it.

Harris Hatsworth

I was going to say that moving from the Wii would make NMH a stylised failure on the 360 or PS3 but then remembered that the other companies are going to be aping Nintendo before the generation ends. Perhaps success?

Tubatic

I'm with MegaStryke

For example, if he's looking to, say, play out the assassin's tournament as a multiplayer experience with highliy customizable characters...

he could shoehorn it to the Wii, but that'd fly very well with the 360 or PS3 network community format.

Usedtabe

Bout time. Now we can see the game really fleshed out.

CocoJambo

@Steel Brotha

I don't really get where your going mate. I personally don't really approve of the casual/hardcore concept, and nothing of what you said validates the presence of the game on another console instead of the Wii.

Steel Brotha

@Al3xand3r
Jim kinda has a point man. the game has only sold .44m that's balls for the game being out for over a year.
@ Jin Champloo & Tubatic
sorry about the nonsense, just got off a 9 hour shift at work. what I was trying to say was that aren't made for sales, they're made to create a world where the developer has complete control over the ideas put in. WW2 FPS' sell but we complain about them being the same. Games like NMH and Fatal Frame come out and have a cult following. Although where the game is released has a dramatic effect on how much the game sells to an extent. For example, Shadow of the Colossus. Cult following but still sold enough to become a PS2 Greatest Hits title. NMH, MadWorld, and killer7(GC) however sold like crap. Niche titles with potential, but put on the wrong console due to Nintendo's marketing. Hope that was more clear. Now back to playing Power Stone Collection on PSP.

Monodi

@HiddenAHB

Can't disagree!

Daxelman

Shadow of the Colossus had marketing.

FistfulOAwesome

@Harris Hatsworth
Unless the Heads at Nintendo go Full Retard, there is no reason why Nintendo won't continue to destroy M/S. You guys gotta remember that no matter how you feel about it, the Wii is changing gaming as we know it. S/M sure seem to think so, since they are aping Nintendo's strategy. They'll fail, because they are attacking Nintendo while Nintendo is selling to the customers (like a Hyena and Lion fighting over a corpse, not noticing that Vulture eating it up). You guys still see the Wii Remote as a gimmick. Yet Nintendo has done everything it can to integrate it into nearly every one of it's games (and 3rd parties have tried too). For Nintendo, the control is the system. For S/M, it is an add-on. That won't appeal to customers (Eye-Toy, anyone?). There are new gamers/returned gamers who play their games with that simple remote. You think they care to go from No/2 buttons to 10?

Signed, Not Sean Malstrom.

AudioTerror

I fully support the idea of more people getting to play NMH.

Cadtalfryn

I am disappointed, Suda.

Steel Brotha

@ Al3xand3r
the PS2 GH systems requires the game to sell 400 000 in nine months, which it didn't. nice try though and if you look and what's in parentheses beside where I said killer 7 i believe you will see a (GC) stating that I meant the Gamecube version only. but even so the game did not sell well even though it was multiplatform, MadWorld being shite is your opinion and I wasn't talking about opinion...
I must not be getting though to you.
my point was that niche games aren't made for the money, which you clearly did not understand or even argue against, thus making you comments random faggerty.Perhaps you should join a debate team to brush up on your arguing skills. Good Day Sir. P.S. no one else has said that the game selling 400, 000 is good. if it was then why would Suda himself want to expand?

brainderailment

It's becoming more prevalent that even the best wii games have great difficulty shining through the ocean of shit.

Steel Brotha

@ Daxelman
"Shadow of the Colossus had marketing"
so did NMH. It was featured on x-play and that is the most watched gaming show today. there were also a lot of internet ads for NMH as well as it being feature at TGS, the biggest Japanese game show. I'd say it had more marketing than Shadow did.

Mr Kite

That'd be aight.

Jim Sterling

No, those games did not have marketing.

Halo had fucking marketing, kids.

JLanphear

I would approve of multi-platform.

Borghundy

XBox please. I really don't think this game needs waggle to be fun. In fact, I think it could be better without it.

Tubatic

You're nobody in this industry if you don't have your own flavor of Game Fuel!

FistfulOAwesome

Also, it's dumb to say that niche games aren't made for money. I doubt Ubisoft (publisher of NMH) was publishing it because of "art". They want to make money and figured that it would (I don't know if it did, since I don't know how much the game cost, and whether 400,000$ made a profit). I don't know who's publishing NMH 2, but it seems they figure that will make a good profit.

Niche games are referred as such because they only appeal to a specific audience (i.e. not the mainstream). That doesn't mean they aren't made for money, just that they are made to go for specific group's money.

Hiltz

90% of NMH's greatness came from the motion controlled combat. It was honestly the only satisfying part of the combat to begin with and the only thing that kept it from feeling boring and tediously repetitive.

Prediction: Developer Grasshopper Manufacture bites the dust thanks to 360/PS3 title.

pedrovay2003

@ Holyetheline

How would it have shined any better on another console if it would have been the same game? Just because it's on the Wii doesn't mean it's all of a sudden not as good as it "could have been." If it came to a different console, it would have been the same game, just with joystick controls instead of Wii remote controls.

PEICanada7

Why is everyone taking such a negative route over this? Most people are just automatically assuming that this means NMH is going to the 360/PS3, but NMH:DS doesn't come out until early 2010. So the next game, won't hit until at least two more years after that, which would bring it out in early 2012 at the earliest. By then, Nintendo's next console will probably be out. That's not saying that it wouldn't be multiplatform, because it could end up coming out on all 3 consoles by then.

This doesn't mean that Suda 51 just all of sudden hates the Wii, and has given up on it. I don't know how anyone could come to that ridiculous conclusion. He's not going to give up on the Wii before NMH:DS even comes out. He said he's trying to make it a great game, and he hopes its a better success than the first one. Which the first one was a success for them, or they wouldn't be making a sequel for it, in the first place.

FistfulOAwesome

@PEIC
No ones angry about NMH being on the X/PS. This is mostly another Wii vs. X/PS topic. Don't worry about it.

Also, nice post, but I'd like to correct you on one thing: There won't be another Wii coming out in the next couple years. Why would there be? It's still selling like, well, itself, so there's no need to make another one. Try to remember that the Famicom lasted over 9 years in Japan. I suspect the Wii will have a similar life.

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