Got news?   tips@destructoid.com  |  Never miss a story:   RSS + Twitter + YouTube
Hey! New here? Destructoid is a gaming discussion community, updated nearly every 20 minutes. Make a quick avatar to comment and enter our contests. Take the tour!

 


Home Listmania! updates

Stardock drafts "The Gamer's Bill of Rights," steals my heart

2:56 PM on 08.29.2008, Justin Villasenor 51 comments

Stardock drafts
     Listmania!

Not only does independent developer/publisher Stardock put out some great strategy games, they’re also somewhat well known for completely omitting any sort of DRM in their releases. Building upon this idea of actually, y’know, treating PC gamers with some modicum of respect, they’ve released a list entitled “The Gamer’s Bill of Rights,” a collection of standards that we can expect to see the company employ from this point on.

  1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
  2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
  3. Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
  4. Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
  5. Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.
  6. Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.
  7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
  8. Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
  9. Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
  10. Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.


Best list ever or best list ever?

Some of the items -- ok, more like ALL of them -- might seem like painfully obvious things to do, but, as I’m sure most of you are aware, are still not practiced by many publishers and developers.  And yeah, I understand that piracy is part of the reason for why they don’t do some of them, but if more and more companies started employing these standards then pirates would have absolutely no credible excuses to download games beyond “I’m a cheap bastard.”

Plymouth, MI – August 29, 2008 – Stardock announced today the Gamer's Bill of Rights: a statement of principles that it hopes will encourage the PC game industry to adopt standards that are more supportive of PC gamers. The document contains 10 specific "rights" that video game enthusiasts can expect from Stardock as an independent developer and publisher that it hopes that other publishers will embrace. The Bill of Rights is featured on Stardock's website (www.stardock.com) and is on prominent display in Stardock's booth (1142) at the Penny Arcade Expo.
 
"As an industry, we need to begin setting some basic, common sense standards that reward PC gamers for purchasing our games," stated Brad Wardell, president and CEO of Stardock Corporation. "The console market effectively already has something like this in that its games have to go through the platform maker such as Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony. But on the PC, publishers can release games that are scarcely completed, poorly supported, and full of intrusive copy protection and then be stuck on it."
 
Chris Taylor, CEO and founder of Gas Powered Games stated, "This is an awesome framework for the industry to aspire to, and ultimately so that we can provide our customers with the gaming experience that they have wanted for years, and really deserve."
 
As an example of The Gamer's Bill of Rights in action, Stardock instituted a policy of allowing users to return copies of The Political Machine purchased at retail to Stardock for a full refund if they found that their PC wasn't sufficient to run the game adequately.
 
"The PC market loses out on a lot of sales because a significant percentage of our market has PCs that may or may not be adequate to run our games. Without the ability to return games to the publisher for a refund, many potential buyers simply pass on games they might otherwise have bought due to the risk of not being certain a game will work on their PC.  The average consumer doesn't know what 'pixel shader 2.0 support' means, for instance," said Wardell.
 
According to Stardock, the objective of the Gamer's Bill of Rights is to increase the confidence of consumers of the quality of PC games which in turn will lead to more sales and a better gaming experience.
 
The Gamer's Bill of Rights:
 
1)     Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
2)     Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
3)     Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
4)     Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
5)     Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.
6)     Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.
7)     Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
8)     Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
9)     Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
10)  Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.


Next page: More PC stories




MuddBstrd's Avatar
MuddBstrd at 08/29/2008 15:13
@RestingSound: Agreed. However, the developer must also recognize that many of the anti-pirating measures they are taking are also discouraging their consumers from buying their product. One has to strike the right balance, and Stardock is saying that many companies are shooting themselves in the foot by being overzealous in their protection efforts.
foxhound009's Avatar
foxhound009 at 08/29/2008 15:20
that's something I like especially #5
bleep's Avatar
bleep at 08/29/2008 15:23
Thats great that they are providing respect to gamers, but unfortunately I think their products will likely be pirated and "stolen" as a result.
Lewis Bell's Avatar
Lewis Bell at 08/29/2008 15:24
Amendment 1: Gamers shall not have to endure product placement in game
morkuma's Avatar
morkuma at 08/29/2008 15:26
7) Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.


them saying that kind of pisses me off, since they only have one year of upgrades included with their desktop software, unless they plan on applying that rule to their software as well as games...
KamikazeTutor's Avatar
KamikazeTutor at 08/29/2008 15:28
Too utopic. Yet, I cannot disagree on some points.
Holyetheline's Avatar
Holyetheline at 08/29/2008 15:34
Best list ever!
Trev's Avatar
Trev at 08/29/2008 15:36
Dear Stardock,

How do I love thee? I would suggest you let me count the ways, but you seem to have taken care of that already. Thanks again.

-Trev
Syn's Avatar
Syn at 08/29/2008 15:37
I find it amazing that suddenly there are some people on the other side of the fence all of the sudden. Making it seem like the insane intense spite-provoking anti-piracy measures are the way to go.

I expected to see something like WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT!
Narishma's Avatar
Narishma at 08/29/2008 15:42
bleep: They are already doing all of this and they are doing well and aren't complaining about piracy.
Ellipson's Avatar
Ellipson at 08/29/2008 15:55
Stardock has always been fighting the good fight with no DRM in games, open installs, a great PC platform in Impulse, all the goods. I read something about GalCiv2 that despite a DRM company (Starforce) openly linking to an active torrent for the game, they still posted better sales-to-known-pirates rate than most other PC games out at the time.

Stardock treats their customers with respect, and in return, people who sit on the fence of "Pirate vs. Buy" have returned the favor.
TurboSpaz's Avatar
TurboSpaz at 08/29/2008 16:06
I <3 Stardock
PhazonYoshi's Avatar
PhazonYoshi at 08/29/2008 16:08
From my experience with stardock's software, they're painfully easy to register and use - providing you bought them. Pirating them is damn near impossible, so if they have similar protection...
Impulse>Steam.
Ratcliff's Avatar
Ratcliff at 08/29/2008 16:20
We hold these truths to be self evident.
John B's Avatar
John B at 08/29/2008 16:21
Too bad that EA and Ubisoft dont give a flying f**k about #10, which is probably my biggest pet peeve of the bunch.
JamnOnTheOne's Avatar
JamnOnTheOne at 08/29/2008 16:37
hahha....this list is laughable.

"Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund."

Define "work". Will I get another copy of the same game or are they honestly expecting that gamers won't pirate games and then return them because they don't "work".

"7) Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time."

What does this mean? In 2028 are they going to provide digital copies of a game that I bought today?

This list shouldn't steal anyone's heart. It's filled with vagueness and impossibilities.
Professor Pew's Avatar
Professor Pew at 08/29/2008 16:59
Well it might not be the most realistic list, but it's charming nonetheless.

Besides JamnOnTheOne, who the hell is going to pirate a game by buying it and then returning it, when you can just download a pirated version online?
aaronf's Avatar
aaronf at 08/29/2008 17:04
Eh... nothing special here.

How about this one:

Gamers should research system requirements thoroughly before purchasing game.

As far as #7 goes, bandwidth is not free.

This list is very anti-business. They have the right to protect their IP in any way they see fit. And I have a right to not buy a game if I, as the consumer, feel the DRM methods are too intrusive.

So there you have it. Businesses should be able to distribute their game in any way they want to. Customers have a right to decide wether to purchase said game. That's how free markets work people.
ajaxender's Avatar
ajaxender at 08/29/2008 17:20
Its a nice list if they can pull it off, but the only one i care about is number 5. If my computer meets the minimum specs, i expect the game to run decently; i remember oblivion didnt. It was either 15 frames per second or it looked worse than morrowind.
xe-cute's Avatar
xe-cute at 08/29/2008 17:22
That is a perfect list although I would of not included:

"Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play."


^ To me that is the only one neeeded to be kept to stop piracy and IMHO does no harm to leave intact. The others I agree are nothing but frustrating for legitamate owners. I just thing this one thing combats piracy more than anything else and also does not really have much (if at all) any adverse effect).
Kiranio's Avatar
Kiranio at 08/29/2008 17:33
Stardock is now my favorite gaming company.
scsitransfer's Avatar
scsitransfer at 08/29/2008 17:39
this makes me want to go buy sins of a solar empire, even if i know i won't spend my $40 worth of time in the game, I love supporting a company who has it's head on straight.
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 08/29/2008 18:08
I bought Sins of a Solar Empire right away. Good game. I love this company!
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 08/29/2008 18:09
"
The only time I ever returned a video game because it didn't work on my computer I made copies of the game so that I could give copies to friends and have a copy for myself ready for my next PC upgrade. So I'm gonna have to disagree with the validity of #1. "

So, because you're a piece of crap, you think people with valid issues playing a game should be ignored? This is exactly the kind of logic that has been eating away at the heart of the PC gaming industry. How many times will people purchase games and have them not work before they stop purchasing games?
Superfluous Moniker's Avatar
Superfluous Moniker at 08/29/2008 18:18
Can we add one for CD keys that are easy to read and input?

When I bought Bioshock for PC, my experience was delayed not by overloaded authorization servers but a throughly crappy CD key implementation. My key contains capital Os and number 0s (without lines to differentiate the two) and expects you to be able to tell them apart. They are shaped slightly different but a casual glance will overlook it (at least mine did).

If that weren't bad enough, you have to actually enter the hyphens between the sets of four characters for it to work. This is of course not mentioned anywhere on the instructions, online help pages, or the error message you get for putting the code in wrong.

Because of all the possible combinations, it took me half an hour to get right. I work in support and have to give codes over the phone, but we're smart enough to not use letter O or I because they look like 0 and 1. How can 2K/Securom have not thought of this!
/rant
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 08/29/2008 18:18
"To me that is the only one neeeded to be kept to stop piracy and IMHO does no harm to leave intact. The others I agree are nothing but frustrating for legitamate owners. I just thing this one thing combats piracy more than anything else and also does not really have much (if at all) any adverse effect)."

You know, not everybody has the internet. Not everybody who has internet has broadband internet. Finally, lots of people seek to play games on laptops on trips. They won't necessarily have internet during these occasions.

I love Stardock's way of fighting piracy. Want a patch? Good luck finding a way to get it besides go legit. Want to play online? There's no way besides going legit. Other than that, do what you wish. I know its insane that a company would treat customers like customers and pirates like pirates, but it's actually pretty logical when you stop to think about it.
Debeo Laurus's Avatar
Debeo Laurus at 08/29/2008 18:28
Odd how some "gamers" can actually call themselves just that after complaining about "piracy" issues. This is a list for "Gamers", this was never a list made in order for the Better Business Bureau to garner attention or ideas from the masses. I would think that those complaining would realize that a gaming company like Stardock hasn't already looked at such trivial things such as piracy. Seriously, how do you define yourself in a time like this, would you look in the mirror and call yourself a gamer? Or would you rather be a business man? I find it laughable that any of you would ever decide to include yourselves in such a discussion especially when your looking at it from a viewpoint such as "Hopeless" and "Impossible". Didn't we gamers come from the dark only to hope to be respected, and a bill (even if wishful) would be something great towards any of us. Independence from the other mindless forms of uninteractive entertainment out there would be the first step towards actually becoming a "Genre" that actually is recognized by the rest of the world.
Chilly's Avatar
Chilly at 08/29/2008 19:07
Instead of buying new, buy second hand. Then lol @ company trying to stop piracy when you go out and buy pre-owened and they dont make squwat off it.

My points.
#1, Bad Idea. (Done it myself *hides*)
#2, Good Idea (We're looking at you Scamco)
#10, Great Idea, Hate having to dig the CD/DVD out of cupboard, its a PC not a console!!

Gonna ask the question I dare say.. Who are Stardock? *Runs Away*
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 08/29/2008 19:30
"Gonna ask the question I dare say.. Who are Stardock? *Runs Away*"

They're getting big for PC strategy games, but not much else. They made Galactic Civilizations 2 (big hit, a lot like Master of Orion or, if you don't know what that is, Civilization only with a space empire rather than a land empire), and Sins of a Solar Empire (kind of like a mixture between Master of Orion/Galactic Civilizations 2 and Age of Empires. Basically, a Civilization-type game only set in real-time).

Both of those games are great. Trust me. Great.
DryvBy's Avatar
DryvBy at 08/29/2008 20:27
@Chilly
Sins of a Solar Empire. Nuff said.

Also, I like Stardock's president coming out and saying this. They're small, trying to make it, and bam, with this "we can't make it anymorez!!" lie we're fed about piracy. Make better games, people will want to buy them. If they game isn't that fun (Crysis) people will know and never touch it. Stop pushing limits on graphics and start pushing them on fun. BioShock did well with it's console base, but sucked it with PC base. Why? Anti-piracy measures.

It's almost as retard as the retards claiming the earth is warming up to infinite degrees. Al Gore and his Manbearpig schemes while flying jets to get to his 80 room bedroom ($13k monthly electric bill) so he can cruise in one of his GMC SUV's. Freakin' smartest man alive!
10BobMarleys's Avatar
10BobMarleys at 08/29/2008 20:37
Full refund because it doesn't work on your machine? Ridiculous. As if there isn't enough piracy already without people returning games that "don't work" after installing them with no DRM or disc checking. These guys are clearly well-intentioned retards.
flashbak's Avatar
flashbak at 08/29/2008 21:39
The only thing missing is #11. If the game does not have all features listed on the box or other marketing materials and in full working order then the gamer has the right to return said game for a full refund.
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 08/29/2008 23:17
"Full refund because it doesn't work on your machine? Ridiculous. As if there isn't enough piracy already without people returning games that "don't work" after installing them with no DRM or disc checking. These guys are clearly well-intentioned retards."

If I buy something and it doesn't work, I want my money back. If I don't get it back, I will be far more hesitant to buy said products. I honestly don't see why gamers would find it okay for companies to sell products that don't work without offering refunds. Not only is it bad for consumers (my money is gone.. I have no game), but its bad for PC gaming in general (PC games don't work, they just steal my money, I'm going elsewhere).

Trust me. Lots of companies release broken games, games that don't work on systems that they claim they should work on, games that only half work on completely modern systems, etc. etc. This is a bigger problem than piracy, and it certainly helps spawn piracy. I guarantee you that, if more people were confident Crysis would work, more people would buy it, and less would pirate it. Laugh all you want, it's pretty basic human nature. The idea that we should accept non-working products in order to fight piracy is so.. BACKWARDS.. its mind boggling.


Stardock knows how to fight piracy. You can download and play their games really easily. There's no DRM. No disc check. Etc.

However, good luck getting the complete patches without an actual legit copy with a unique code. Also, good luck playing online without an actual legit copy with a unique code. Instead of raping paying customers up the ass, they have found reasonable ways to make purchasing more attractive. Gamers turn around and call them "well-intentioned retards."

No wonder DRM is so crazy. Apparently, gamers hate money, hate working games, love constant piracy checks, and love killing their favorite pass-time.
lumberjackrock's Avatar
lumberjackrock at 08/29/2008 23:50
Let's be honest fellas - if you've played a pc game, you've played a hacked, cracked or otherwise unpaid-for copy of it. Complaining that these companies take such dear care of us is retarded. We're not children. They don't have to hold our hands.
-Update your PC if you want to play (or get a console too)
-learn to internet (as if you don't have it or access to it)
-complaining about "minimum requirements" being adequate is... well, that's reasonable. So fuck all of computer software for that one. I'm not saying it's wrong to expect certain quality levels to be met - I am saying that whining about things that shouldn't reasonably be a problem is wasteful. There are a few good things and a few nitpicky things on the list, but let's stop being such a culture of immature manchildren. If you made some shit you would want it to be protected and to be compensated for it. I seriously doubt companies just do shit for the fucking sake of it.
It costs too much.
dprime's Avatar
dprime at 08/29/2008 23:55
This screams "entitlement." Like, gamers don't have any rights as gamers. If we don't want to buy what's offered, we don't have to.

And I bet half the people who love this list are pirates themselves and are why those measures exist and are why gamers are treated like potential criminals.
lumberjackrock's Avatar
lumberjackrock at 08/30/2008 00:00
@killas and most of everyone else screaming "yay":

there is a very definitive and broad line between having a broken, shitty game and being a broken, shitty consumer. If I buy a game and it sucks, my fault. Should have checked reviews/demos/etc. If I buy a computer and that shit WILL NOT FUNCTION, their fault. If I buy a game that will not load at all, or has a broken disc, their fault. If I am unable or unwilling to upgrade my 3-year-old Dell that doesn't have a dedicated graphics card, MY fault.

See the difference?
stevesan's Avatar
stevesan at 08/30/2008 00:09
Some people think this is bad business or is impractical and anti-capitalist...

First of all, Stardock isn't making anyone else but themselves adhere to this. You can still run your company as you wish - I know, shocking ain't it?

I'm no experienced business person, but it seems like this is damn good business: respecting and working with your customers. As a consumer, I appreciate that. If they take the time to make sure that their sys reqs are accurate, then that's value added for the consumer. So guess what? They're gonna get more of my business if they continue to deliver on all 10 points. That sounds like good business to me.
Too Much Coffee Man's Avatar
Too Much Coffee Man at 08/30/2008 00:19
Stardock has balls.

Best list ever.

Make your customers love you and they will want to support you by buying your product.
ace of knaves's Avatar
ace of knaves at 08/30/2008 00:26
This list is slightly better than the actual Bill of Rights. Stardock, will you marry me?
KorJax's Avatar
KorJax at 08/30/2008 08:37
I am really laughing at the idiots who are like "lol Stardock is stupid for this list!"

Do you guys not realize that Stardock has ALREADY been doing these things with Sins of a Solar Empire, yet that game DOMINATED the PC sales charts for months after it's release?

Which clearly means, that what they are doing is working. And as a legit PC gamer, I thank them for that.

Granted their anti-piracy measure is you have to have a valid CD/download key registered in their database in order to get updates through their server. And seeing as they follow through on #3, and GIVE those updates... pirates really don't have an incentive to pirate a game that will get updated and they won't be able to experience these updates.
Wexx's Avatar
Wexx at 08/30/2008 08:55
*applause*
AClockWorkMelon's Avatar
AClockWorkMelon at 08/30/2008 10:28
I love the first one. It'll make it so much easier for me to pirate games.
killias2's Avatar
killias2 at 08/30/2008 10:39
"there is a very definitive and broad line between having a broken, shitty game and being a broken, shitty consumer. If I buy a game and it sucks, my fault. Should have checked reviews/demos/etc. If I buy a computer and that shit WILL NOT FUNCTION, their fault. If I buy a game that will not load at all, or has a broken disc, their fault. If I am unable or unwilling to upgrade my 3-year-old Dell that doesn't have a dedicated graphics card, MY fault. "

I'm not trying to go beyond this definition really. I'm just saying, if companies lie about minimum requirements, or release a broken game, or release a game that is incompatible with a large amount of decent PC's, etc., then it isn't the gamer's fault. Obviously, if you try to play Crysis with a 6 year old PC, then you're an idiot. Still, I do think companies should strive for higher compatibility, if only for the general health of PC gaming. There's a reason Blizzard is so successful: their games work on EVERYTHING. However, this is more about smart business than gamers' rights.
JustLikeBuck's Avatar
JustLikeBuck at 09/01/2008 04:09
I had the music from ceremony hall at the end of Star Wars play in my head whilst reading that. Now I need to wipe a tear from my eyes.

I think I shall go and buy their game, even if it won't run on Linux, and I have little time for my XP box. One day, thanks to them, I will be allowed to the game I purchased free, without DRM, and at its latest version :)
Tyrwupiwupi's Avatar
Tyrwupiwupi at 09/16/2008 18:41
@everyone bashing stardock:

you can't seriously say this isnt a great thing. Sure, a few of these points may make them easier targets, but thats no excuse. the point is they are trying to treat us with the exact same respect we ask for. You cant hop the fence every time someone makes a point. Just recogonize this for what it is. a genuine attempt at making us feel older then 3.
Pixelated's Avatar
Pixelated at 10/12/2008 19:20
You know what, to all you fags saying it's impossible no one would do this. Well guess what, Stardock is doing it and they are thriving as a company. You've been brainwashed by the strong arm style tactics of game publishers and companies. I mean why would you complain if a software company said "Hey if it doesn't work bring it back and we'll issue a refund" Please tell me! You know why? Because you guy's are a bunch of whinny little pussies!
prev next

Returning Dtoiders: login now to post a comment

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just Create an avatar now - it's fast and free: PLUS you also get your own gaming blog and begin posting stories and uploading videos in our open community area that may also appear on our home page. Sign up and we'll guide you through it, it's easy and 100% anonymous.




 Original Videos

 Reviews
Mad Dog McCree Gunslinger Pack
Overlord II
Yosumin Live!
Let's Tap
Ghostbusters: The Video Game (Wii)
View all Game Reviews

 Community blogs -   39769 Dtoiders!

This month's theme: Untapped Potential

New to Dtoid? Read the survival guide


 Originals

How Pokemon Red is blatantly better than Pokemon Blue











more original Destructoid stories



 Popular now more













Destructoid is:
Nick Chester
Editor-in-Chief
Jim Sterling
Reviews Editor
Dale North
News Editor
Hamza Aziz
Community Manager
Anthony Burch
Features Editor
Rey Gutierrez
Video editor & director
Niero
Founder, publisher
Letters to the editors
tips@destructoid.com
Associate Editors
Ashley Davis Jonathan Holmes
Brad Nicholson Jonathan Ross
Brad Rice Jordan Devore
Chad Concelmo Matthew Razak
Colette Bennett Tom Fronczak
Conrad Zimmerman Topher Cantler
Dyson Samit Sarkar
Contributors
Adam Dork
Ben Perlee
Daniel Lingen
Joseph Leray
Joe Burling
Mikey
Will Maddock
Stella Wong




get involved

register or login
post a blog
post a forum
enter a contest
discuss a review
contribute a news tip
write a guest editorial
support

new member's guide
login assistance
tech support
report abuse
email our editors
read our dev blog
nuclear crisis?
keep in touch

RSS feed
Twitter
Facebook
Myspace
Flickr
Game nights
Meet-ups
seriously

about us
advertising
terms of use
privacy policy
jobs at MM
buy our crap
our network

Tomopop
Japanator




Destructoid is an independently-run publication forged by our love of video games and the gaming community's need of accountable enthusiast press
living the dream since March 16, 2006