surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
I wonder if this has happened to anyone else during the recent Kickstarter boon. The lesson here seems to be understanding your platform when making a budget.
I don't know enough about the whole Kickstarter thing to really have a strong opinion one way or the next. However, I fully support the pointing of guns at giant cape wearing birds.
@dtomek It's not a donation. With Kickstarter, it's generally more of a preorder.
What makes me laugh is that before the taxing, they were still $2000 above their intended goal. They wasted the extra money, essentially. They fucked up and, although I won't say they deserve their fate, Chris was right when he said you need to plan this shit before you commit to making a bunch of rewards.
What makes me laugh is that before the taxing, they were still $2000 above their intended goal. They wasted the extra money, essentially. They fucked up and, although I won't say they deserve their fate, Chris was right when he said you need to plan this shit before you commit to making a bunch of rewards.
Those people traded their $15 for a shirt or a poster or whatever their backing level was. They didn't trade their money for a seat on the board of directors or a stake in the company and therefore get no say in how the money is spent.
@ dtomek
It's not a donation. It's a preorder along with other goodies in most cases. No one is just giving these devs money out of the goodness of their own heart.
Also, they spent roughly 6k of the funds on music for the game among other things. They also wasted roughly 4k on lawyers because they were concerned about the legalities from using Kickstarter (they wish they hadn't done so now).
Yes, there are certainly lessons to be learned from this. But if anyone comes away from this thinking that Kickstarter funded games are going to fail, then they are terribly over reacting or didn't understand the risks of Kickstarter funding in the first place.
It's not a donation. It's a preorder along with other goodies in most cases. No one is just giving these devs money out of the goodness of their own heart.
Also, they spent roughly 6k of the funds on music for the game among other things. They also wasted roughly 4k on lawyers because they were concerned about the legalities from using Kickstarter (they wish they hadn't done so now).
Yes, there are certainly lessons to be learned from this. But if anyone comes away from this thinking that Kickstarter funded games are going to fail, then they are terribly over reacting or didn't understand the risks of Kickstarter funding in the first place.
@Dale
So I guess you're not coming to the circle jerk party celebrating/promoting my Groucho Marx-style emoticon disguise Kickstarter project?
So I guess you're not coming to the circle jerk party celebrating/promoting my Groucho Marx-style emoticon disguise Kickstarter project?
Regardless, this game looks ridiculously awesome. I wouldn't be *too* worried if I were in Warballoon's shoes. It's going to sell well.
I really hope poorly planned projects like this don't tarnish Kickstarter as a whole, which really is doing some very promising and exciting things. Of course not all of them are going to turn out perfectly and it's up to us as potential backers to beware of that and back projects lead by people we can trust.
It's pretty clear that they overloaded their asses and made some bad choices. I really hope that this doesn't make Kickstarter look bad, because as long as you're not an idiot, it can be used to do good things.
That said, these guys got to use that money to secure themselves as a company legally and go to goddamn PAX to show off their game, so that chunk of their kickstarter funds were put to good use and will make them lots of money that they wouldn't have made otherwise. They should certainly not count that as a negative. That would be like moaning that you spent all your savings on a car and can't afford gas now. At least you have the fucking car. Once you can afford some gas, you'll be going places.
That said, these guys got to use that money to secure themselves as a company legally and go to goddamn PAX to show off their game, so that chunk of their kickstarter funds were put to good use and will make them lots of money that they wouldn't have made otherwise. They should certainly not count that as a negative. That would be like moaning that you spent all your savings on a car and can't afford gas now. At least you have the fucking car. Once you can afford some gas, you'll be going places.
Honestly, the only thing that worries me about, say, Wasteland 2 is that the prizes are going to take a HUGE chunk of change out of development. Seriously. I'm guessing almost half will disappear with that.
Besides that, most more recent projects will do fine.
Besides that, most more recent projects will do fine.
Ouch, that sucks. I really feel for these guys... but thanks for posting this story. Things like this really need to be brought to light.
Kickstarter is a great platform for startups, but a lesson like this is hard learned... especially when you're already scraping by. Anyone planning on using Kickstarter should take heed to this warning.
This should be a Kickstarter PSA. Take heart Star Command guys, I'm buying the shit out of this game and I'll push all my iDevice owning friends to do so as well!
Kickstarter is a great platform for startups, but a lesson like this is hard learned... especially when you're already scraping by. Anyone planning on using Kickstarter should take heed to this warning.
This should be a Kickstarter PSA. Take heart Star Command guys, I'm buying the shit out of this game and I'll push all my iDevice owning friends to do so as well!
Wait, back up a bit, Chris. "Misappropriation of funds"? How the hell was any of this misspent? It wasn't like they were going and using the money for hookers and blow, or for personal expenses. Every single dime of the money that they received went to either costs involved with developing the game, advertising the game, or fulfilling the promises of Kickstarter.
I know that this is a blog and not newspaper, but at least try to have evidence to back up your opinion when you start slandering someone.
I know that this is a blog and not newspaper, but at least try to have evidence to back up your opinion when you start slandering someone.
@MuddBstrd
I'm with you. These guys are artists and having spent the majority of my life being around artistic types (being one myself) we're not typically business savvy.
If anything, their mistake wasn't using Kickstarter, it was promising too much and not hiring a business planner or lawyer first. They had no idea how quickly that money was going to be spent. Realistically I can't fault them for trying to do right by their fans... but plenty of begruding people on the internet will.
I'm with you. These guys are artists and having spent the majority of my life being around artistic types (being one myself) we're not typically business savvy.
If anything, their mistake wasn't using Kickstarter, it was promising too much and not hiring a business planner or lawyer first. They had no idea how quickly that money was going to be spent. Realistically I can't fault them for trying to do right by their fans... but plenty of begruding people on the internet will.
@Mudd
That part was actually supposed to be in quotes, bud -- thanks for the catch.
The phrase is basically showing the dichotomy between people who pre-order a game at a retailer, and "investors" who directly contribute to a game's budget via Kickstarter -- a lot of members in the latter group seem to feel entitled to some sort of say, or transparency when it comes to budgeting.
That part was actually supposed to be in quotes, bud -- thanks for the catch.
The phrase is basically showing the dichotomy between people who pre-order a game at a retailer, and "investors" who directly contribute to a game's budget via Kickstarter -- a lot of members in the latter group seem to feel entitled to some sort of say, or transparency when it comes to budgeting.
They made a mistake and realized it and then owned up to it. I applaud them. Takes balls most don't have anymore. I wish them luck and hope they get it sorted out.
@Dale: Those are the faces your mother made last night Trebeck! Oh ho ho.
@Dale: Those are the faces your mother made last night Trebeck! Oh ho ho.
...do those Angry Birds look like they're holding angry nazi-fists out in defiance of being at gunpoint?
..maybe it's just me. But now the rest of you can't un-see it either. =D
..maybe it's just me. But now the rest of you can't un-see it either. =D
Sooo...they didn't take expenses into account when they asked for money? That makes them idiots, and I'd surprised they were given the chance to open a kickstarter to begin with, since it seems you have to have everything fleshed and planned out fully. Oh well, I didn't give 'em nothin,' so no worries.
Pax east appearance for $3k unneeded $10k to make and ship 200 hats shirts and posters? Ridiculous.
This is why i have not and will not help and of these game kickstarters. None of them are being run by people who understand how a business works. They just pissed away $20k before even starting to work on the game.
This is why i have not and will not help and of these game kickstarters. None of them are being run by people who understand how a business works. They just pissed away $20k before even starting to work on the game.
"None of them are being run by people who understand how a business works."
False. Some of them absolutely are. Wasteland 2 is, but that one just ended. Banner Saga is still open though, and that one is being handled very responsibly and intelligently. AND it's being scored by the musician that scored Journey, so that's pretty awesome. Worth looking into.
False. Some of them absolutely are. Wasteland 2 is, but that one just ended. Banner Saga is still open though, and that one is being handled very responsibly and intelligently. AND it's being scored by the musician that scored Journey, so that's pretty awesome. Worth looking into.
if my friends band was able to figure out that they weren't going to get 100% of the money donated you'd think that a development studio would, even a small one. These guys should have factored in the actual amount of money they would get from each of the donation tiers when coming up with the goal and what they were going to give away. I mean, it's not that hard to research printing shipping costs ahead of time.
As a supporter of several kickstarter games, I gotta say that blows. But they should've done the math beforehand to make sure they would make a good profit at all payment options such that they actually met their goal. I hope more devs don't just jump into kickstarter without actually calculating the amount you'll give back to kickstarter/amazon and taxes and how much each tier reward would cost YOU as a developer. It's simple planning people.
Well this just made me think of something that Tim Schafer said in the first episode of the Double Fine documentary (It's out for the backers).
And that was that they estimated that 300.000 in donation would allow them to get 3 !!!! people working on the game for 6 months.
If you think about that it becomes very clear that all those Kickstarter game projects out there asking for 20k or something along that line don't have a leg to stand on. 20k is just barely enough to keep maybe 2 guys alive for the two months.
Meaning rent, food, electricity and nothing else. That's not nearly enough to develop a game.
How much money did Johnathan Blow spend on Braid again? I believe it was something along the line of 400.000 $.
So if you see serious game projects asking for only 20k: Keep your fingers off of that. These people don't have any clue about their actual cost of business.
And that was that they estimated that 300.000 in donation would allow them to get 3 !!!! people working on the game for 6 months.
If you think about that it becomes very clear that all those Kickstarter game projects out there asking for 20k or something along that line don't have a leg to stand on. 20k is just barely enough to keep maybe 2 guys alive for the two months.
Meaning rent, food, electricity and nothing else. That's not nearly enough to develop a game.
How much money did Johnathan Blow spend on Braid again? I believe it was something along the line of 400.000 $.
So if you see serious game projects asking for only 20k: Keep your fingers off of that. These people don't have any clue about their actual cost of business.
I feel like "Kickstarter" should be replaced with "budget" in the headline. Even after expenses they got $2k more than the $20k they asked for, and now they're saying on twitter and interviews that they actually need $200k and that $40 is nothing.
I kept saying these past few weeks that this would happen, and now it starts...
I'm just happy to see that others have the same feeling about it. Kickstarter is a fall back crutch at best, it shouldn't be an industry wide business trend. Ever.
I'm just happy to see that others have the same feeling about it. Kickstarter is a fall back crutch at best, it shouldn't be an industry wide business trend. Ever.
@dgschrei
Asking for $20k doesn't mean they don't have any clue. Did you consider that they're actually not asking for enough money to live off while working on the game?
$20k is actually more than enough money for a small indie team to grab up all the licenses they need for the software they're using. Software is VERY expensive and you can't be releasing games on pirated software.
Asking for $20k doesn't mean they don't have any clue. Did you consider that they're actually not asking for enough money to live off while working on the game?
$20k is actually more than enough money for a small indie team to grab up all the licenses they need for the software they're using. Software is VERY expensive and you can't be releasing games on pirated software.
Sounds like they miscalculated the cost of the physical stuff, especially the shipping. I do shipping all the time and even small light weight stuff like a T-shirt can get expensive especially if it has to go overseas. Still 200 fulfillments at a total cost of 10K is $50 a person which isn't too bad but I'm guessing they probably thought it would only cost them $25-30. I'm not sure what the rules are but if it was me I would limit physical items to in-country only, makes it easier to estimate your shipping costs and delivery time.
Though if you're giving/investing in them because you want the game you should turn down the physical stuff so more money goes to development.
Though if you're giving/investing in them because you want the game you should turn down the physical stuff so more money goes to development.
How did they not see this coming? I know they aren't business people, that's what publishers are for, but I would expect most people to very seriously consider (and probably overestimate) the cost of each prize tier.
The other thing is that this isn't the end of the line, as far as money goes. I'd imagine there's a pretty large amount of non-core fans who sat out on the Kickstarter that will still buy the game.
The other thing is that this isn't the end of the line, as far as money goes. I'd imagine there's a pretty large amount of non-core fans who sat out on the Kickstarter that will still buy the game.
@dgschrei
"20k is just barely enough to keep maybe 2 guys alive for the two months.
Meaning rent, food, electricity and nothing else"
Really? I'm pretty sure you could stretch 20k to last a long time if you're literally just paying rent, food, and electricity. Unless you're living in like Manhattan or something.
"20k is just barely enough to keep maybe 2 guys alive for the two months.
Meaning rent, food, electricity and nothing else"
Really? I'm pretty sure you could stretch 20k to last a long time if you're literally just paying rent, food, and electricity. Unless you're living in like Manhattan or something.
@Chris: Ah, ok. Glad I could help then.
I've been surprised by how people have reacted to this. I kicked in some money for Star Command and, when I read the update, I thought it was informative, but I certainly wasn't pissed off. This whole kerfuffle has just further demonstrated how entitled and ignorant so many gamers really are, and I think will be a huge problem as more Kickstarter-funded games go through their money and these gamers get pissed when they realize it doesn't ALL go to the game.
I've been surprised by how people have reacted to this. I kicked in some money for Star Command and, when I read the update, I thought it was informative, but I certainly wasn't pissed off. This whole kerfuffle has just further demonstrated how entitled and ignorant so many gamers really are, and I think will be a huge problem as more Kickstarter-funded games go through their money and these gamers get pissed when they realize it doesn't ALL go to the game.
@Drakengard - I thought that was exactly what Kickstarter was supposed to be? Helping struggling developers get their projects off the ground out of the goodness of your heart. The rewards are REWARDS, as a way to thank the donors for their support. They're not products you pre-ordered per se, but I can see why you might see it that way. From what I know though, if the project falls apart despite getting funded, expect to lose your rewards. Kickstarted projects have no accountability to the donors, AFAIK, except they stand to get a massive loss of face if they fail to deliver.
This is the problem. People are treating Kickstarter as a way to pre-order indie projects. It's not. It's crowdsourced venture capital. You invest and hopefully a bunch of other people will invest and if you're lucky it won't fail like 99% of creative endeavours.
I was waiting for this news article---Kickstarter is a great idea and all, but it's no substitute for a cogent, well-researched business plan.
As someone who has opened their own business in the last few months, you have to research the shit out of all of this or you go tits up before you start, vidya games are no different. I do wish them the best however.
As someone who has opened their own business in the last few months, you have to research the shit out of all of this or you go tits up before you start, vidya games are no different. I do wish them the best however.
follow
