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Spy/Sniper update also changes weapon unlocks photo

So the big Spy/Sniper update for Team Fortress 2 landed the other day, and while the two classes new abilities are getting rave reviews another part of the update is stirring up a bit of controversy. It seems Valve decided to change the way weapons are earned. Before, if you recall from playing the game, special weapons were granted through achievements, some of which were especially challenging. Now, however, weapons are simply awarded randomly during the game like in an MMORPG.

Seems like a much easier way to balance the game, but a slap to the face for those who put in the hard work and dedication to earn weapons previously. It appears that Valve is trying to make the game more friendly to the casual crowd, but they could also just be doing this for the free weekend and then going back to the achievement method. Either way those of you who put all that hard effort into unlocking the Ubersaw are about to run into plenty of people who did none of the work and can brag just as much about having one. 


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50 comments | showing # 1 to 50

DaedHead8's Avatar
DaedHead8 at 05/23/2009 23:24
I don't think it's fair to say it's similar to item drops in an MMO. The new system is based entirely on how much time you play. So it's not like you can kill a scout and have a chance to get the sandman or something. Valve did say eventually the weapon unlocks would be tied to player action but they haven't yet said how.
Paul Soth's Avatar
Paul Soth at 05/23/2009 23:30
Achievement whores can take their complaints and their achievement servers and cram it.

Needs work, though. Perhaps some sort of in-game credit system in the future that isn't based around achievements and time played.
Milestailsprowe's Avatar
Milestailsprowe at 05/23/2009 23:31
Good I just got back and that hand cannon is hurting
kagatoASUKA89's Avatar
kagatoASUKA89 at 05/23/2009 23:32
Although I'm only playing for the free weekend thing I have played before and the new way of unlocking sucks its completely luck related it has nothing to do with skill or how long you play it'll just randomly happen I saw someone get two items at once after playing for 10 minutes in a server who were brand new to the game its all bullshit now..
Magesx's Avatar
Magesx at 05/23/2009 23:33
I like how this change was done to prevent achievement farming, and yet there are more servers for idling than there ever were for farming.

Pretty shitty update.
KaL YoshiKa's Avatar
KaL YoshiKa at 05/23/2009 23:36
% Based chance on picking up another classes weapon would be much better then the new system...which is so random it hurts.
Kyousuke Nanbu's Avatar
Kyousuke Nanbu at 05/23/2009 23:39
The achievements where ridiculous anyway.

Not that I play this shitty game but still, at least just playing randomly gets you the stuff.
CocoJambo's Avatar
CocoJambo at 05/23/2009 23:40
Haven't tried the update yet, but before I had 20+ hours of gaming and a single unlock. It was rubbish, I prefer this "luck" system to something so harsh.
mrberns's Avatar
mrberns at 05/23/2009 23:42
Half the people who unlocked the weapons did it in achievement servers anyway, so I'm not too upset.
ANeM's Avatar
ANeM at 05/23/2009 23:54
I'm now up to 7 duplicate items with only 2 items unlocked that I didn't already have. I wouldn't mind so much if they had held off this change until they got the item trading in, but this is fucking ridiculous. Its just incredibly shoddy implementation, especially considering how many people already have a majority of the unlockables.

Duplicates with item trading: Fine.
No Duplicates and no item trading: Fine.
Duplicates that clog up my inventory screen but I'm holding on to them due to the promise that I'll be able to toss them at friends later: Not Cool.
Los255's Avatar
Los255 at 05/24/2009 00:08
It's a completely bullshit and insanely random system. I'm sure Valve can see the massive tsunami waves of complaints from both sides, and by that I mean people that have played 100+ hours and people who didn't and some people not getting ANYTHING at all.

achievement_idle servers help a little bit as they can be left alone and you can come back hours later to see what you got.

Since trading isn't even a feature yet, why are we getting unlocks we already have? It shoulda been limited to the new ones, and then to everything once the feature rolled out.
killatia's Avatar
killatia at 05/24/2009 00:55
The changes they made to getting new weapons was a dumb move in my opinion.
Swizzler121's Avatar
Swizzler121 at 05/24/2009 01:01
they didn't change the system to appeal to the casual crowd. They changed the system so not everyone was one class after the update/not everyone would have all the new weapons 1 day after the update. I've been playing almost 10 hours and so far I've only unlocked 1 new item. before I would have already had all 6 by now. I love the new system, thank you very much.
Cyanosis117's Avatar
Cyanosis117 at 05/24/2009 01:09
I'm not completely sold, but its better than the old system, with everyone just getting on achievement servers. It shouldnt be too hard to require players actually do something and not just stand there to get items, maybe a minimum number of points scored or distance travelled per hour.
Neonie's Avatar
Neonie at 05/24/2009 01:12
I like this better then the achievement crap. Not to many people actually did the achievements fairly anyway.
MrSadistic's Avatar
MrSadistic at 05/24/2009 01:18
It's win/win situation for me.

The only character's completed weapons set I had was of the pyro. Today I got those boxing gloves for the heavy, and got two items for both the scout and medic. Plus I got the razorback for the sniper.
Live-Free-Or-Pie's Avatar
Live-Free-Or-Pie at 05/24/2009 01:39
The duplicates are the deal killers. I have 3 sandmen, 3 sandviches, 4 kritzkriegs, 4 ubersaws, 2 KGB, 3 backburners, and I have yet to see any of the new sniper weapons or the coveted ambassador. Lame...
Kommander Kerf's Avatar
Kommander Kerf at 05/24/2009 01:46
Achievements were always the wrong way to go for the unlocks. The Pyro's and Medic's are pretty doable but some of the others almost NECESSARILY require cooperation from an enemy. I like this new system because it is still based around play time but doesn't promote achievement farming. I do wish playing a certain class made you like...twice as likely to unlock any items you don't have for it though.
Midgetsnowman's Avatar
Midgetsnowman at 05/24/2009 02:10
I love how people are whining about this system without reading what valve has officially said.

1. the drop rates arent working properly. theyre supposed to be more common than they are right now.

2.You get multiples because theyre implementing a trade system soon. so those extra dead ringers you have? just might be worth trading to some spy player who has an extra medic or sniper item.
Los255's Avatar
Los255 at 05/24/2009 02:15
"I like this new system because it is still based around play time but doesn't promote achievement farming."

No, sir. It's broken and it's completely random. Valve has stated as much.
Krow's Avatar
Krow at 05/24/2009 02:27
The achievement method still works.
TheStripe's Avatar
TheStripe at 05/24/2009 03:12
@Bwark it most definitely does not.
Krow's Avatar
Krow at 05/24/2009 03:47
I got the sandvich the old fashion way tonight.
Soulwax's Avatar
Soulwax at 05/24/2009 04:48
@TheStripe The achievement method still works for the classes that have milestone achievements.
Kaspar's Avatar
Kaspar at 05/24/2009 05:17
Wow, what a dick move.

All strategy just flew out the wnidow.
Jon B's Avatar
Jon B at 05/24/2009 05:48
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

a) You can play for 24 hours and not recieve a single unlock
b) You could be lucky and recieve 5 unlocks... but chances are 2 of them will be the same item.

On top of that, I've seen someone with 6 ubersaws. Just, seriously... the new system is broken.
Dr Terror's Avatar
Dr Terror at 05/24/2009 05:50
Yeah Valve, thanks a lot for supporting a 2 year old game giving us free shit to play with & talk about. Fucking ingrates, People are acting like this is dynasty, game destroying Star Wars Online shit when in reality the 10hrs I've played since the update were exactly the same as the 100 before it (give or take extra snipers & spies).. except this way I don't have to cheat & grind on a special server to get the unlocks. Ppl complain that noobs are getting items they spent ages achievement farming for when they didn't even earn the items themselves legitimately (don't care if you did, generalizing).

"I AFK'd for 29 hours today & didnt get a single unlock!!! You mean I have to actually play the game as intended? FACK U VALVE MANG". QQ moar.
hjd uk's Avatar
hjd uk at 05/24/2009 06:43
Grat update, shame about the skill-less weapon 'finds'. I've played 200hrs as a Medic was my 'carrer' class before the medic update came out to try and get more people playing medic. I feel cheated that i worked hard to earn my Ubersaw etc but now people are just finding them randomly. Feels like they don't 'deserve' the free awards. I dont like the idea of achievemnt servers but now there are just idle-servers - which incidentally also mess up Valves server-rating system (based on connection time to a server).
hjd uk's Avatar
hjd uk at 05/24/2009 06:54
Hmm apologies for the lack of punctuation in that last post. :) We really need an "edit post" button.
heyricochet's Avatar
heyricochet at 05/24/2009 09:33
I played all last night and got 8 sniper achievements (legally, most by accident, no farming at all) and I didn't find a single weapon, duplicate or otherwise. Awful awful system.
AllHailShake's Avatar
AllHailShake at 05/24/2009 10:45
Is it just me or do most of the comments here seem like they were written by people who didn't read the TF blog post? Seriously people, read the case that Valve has made for this new system, because it's not supposed to be perfect now. If you're not inclined to read the post, here it is in a nutshell:

Yes, there's a new system.
No, it's not perfect.
Yes, we are working to better this new system. Please be patient with us.
ZagZagovich's Avatar
ZagZagovich at 05/24/2009 11:24
More friendly to the casual crowd my ass. Getting new stuff through achievements was the biggest and the most unnecessary waste of time I've ever seen in a FPS game. Not only some of the achievements were based on insane grinding but the weapons you unlocked didn't really give you an advantage. They only tweak the game to make it more interesting. It's nice to see them figuring out a way to make it work.

P.S.
I should say that even in the old system I had a great time getting the achievements. It can be fun if you find the right people.
rushtodeath's Avatar
rushtodeath at 05/24/2009 11:29
just give us the fucking new items.
Jawmuncher's Avatar
Jawmuncher at 05/24/2009 11:34
The achievement method was a mess to begin with.
Since most of the people who got them just went into boosting rooms.
Not saying everyone did but a good amount did.

I like the random thing though it still needs to be a but worked out.


Honestly I would have just gave the charcaters all the new weapons and what as soon as the patch hit.
But thats why I don't make games
Dexter345's Avatar
Dexter345 at 05/24/2009 12:22
I'm sure it's already been said, but the Achievement system didn't "reward players who put in the hard work," it just spawned Achievement servers, where people would get together and set up matches not to play, but specifically to earn the new weapons, so they could then go and play.
Midgetsnowman's Avatar
Midgetsnowman at 05/24/2009 13:01
@heyricochet: Drop rates are busted. Valve has said as much and are working on a fix. QQ moar.
ScanCase's Avatar
ScanCase at 05/24/2009 13:53
When you say "but a slap to the face for those who put in the hard work and dedication to earn weapons previously." you mean people that went into achievement farm and cheated to get them right. Because they're cheators.
taiki's Avatar
taiki at 05/24/2009 15:05
Unlocks *suck* Game balance goes out the window when you're not sure if you're the poor sap who's played spy for a year now, and now you're the only schmuck with out the Ambassador or the Cloak and Dagger.
NihonTiger90's Avatar
NihonTiger90 at 05/24/2009 15:55
@Dexter:

And not surprisingly, this is spawning idle servers where people go to sit around and wait.

It's lose/lose either way, because people are still going to farm the shit out of the system. They're just changing methods.

I'll be sure to include something on this in my big TF2 update postmortem tonight.
wanderingpixel's Avatar
wanderingpixel at 05/24/2009 15:58
I think that they [Valve] should just give people the weapons upfront. No unlocking BS. This would also help make the game more balanced.
everybodyruns's Avatar
everybodyruns at 05/24/2009 16:44
Lol, people will complain about anything. I think it's awesome, because now achievements are for fun instead of being work you need to do in order to get items. Further, it's cool to get new stuff, and it would be lame if you just got everything up front.
dfielder's Avatar
dfielder at 05/24/2009 17:14
Yea the new weapon system is stupid imo , bring back achievements
Magesx's Avatar
Magesx at 05/24/2009 18:04
Valve said they'll release the fix "hopefully before the next class update".

Thanks, guys.
everybodyruns's Avatar
everybodyruns at 05/24/2009 18:35
Lol, people will complain about anything. I think it's awesome, because now achievements are for fun instead of being work you need to do in order to get items. Further, it's cool to get new stuff, and it would be lame if you just got everything up front.
LuntiX's Avatar
LuntiX at 05/24/2009 22:18
I'm iffy on the new system. I liked that you unlocked weapons via the achievements before, it actually gave me something to work to. Alas with the random drops it can be as easy as joining a server and getting a weapon within 5 seconds, not as rewarding.
Chronic Logic's Avatar
Chronic Logic at 05/25/2009 01:44
No! Keep tradition alive! Grinding achievements for unlocks is the only way to go! Screw the drops.
gamadaya's Avatar
gamadaya at 05/25/2009 01:57
Is this better? I can't even tell. Jesus Valve, just give us the fucking weapons already! I sort of want to play this game, and this is what is keeping me from it. Like, why are they doing this? Why? Do they not want people to have fun? It's like how you had to unlock so many damn characters and stages in Brawl. Why not remove all the tedious shit and leave the fun? When has that even been a bad idea? And if the people who had to do it the hard way complain, fuck them. No really, fuck them in the ass with a 10 foot pole, dipped in liquid nitrogen. Why would anyone complain because other people don't have to suffer like they did. If you do that, then your a dick. That's pretty much the definition of what a dick is.
CapnCrunk's Avatar
CapnCrunk at 05/25/2009 09:10
World of Teamfortresscraft is go!
Jetsetlemming's Avatar
Jetsetlemming at 05/25/2009 15:45
"Now, however, weapons are simply awarded randomly during the game like in an MMORPG."
This sentence is so stupid I would've thought Brad Nicolson wrote it. Yes, exactly like all those MMOs that just randomly spawn new items in the player's inventory. Right.

Protip: This is not like an MMO unless you think anything remotely random in a videogame is "like an MMO".
CWal37's Avatar
CWal37 at 05/25/2009 19:35
I've found it annoying so far, because I can top a server as many times as I want and still get nothing. I wish it rewarded good play as well.

@Kyousuke Nanbu

As always, your blind hatred for what is easily one of the best multi-player games this generation is painful.
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