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He was totally wrong about the Wii being like two Gamecubes stuck together. Everyone knows it isn't that powerful.
I think Chris Hecker has a point. He even mentions several instances where he had long, in-depth conversations with journalists clarifying his statements, only to have the headlines return as "Game Developer still thinks the Wii is Shit". Clearly that headline, which has little if nothing to do with the conversation, was designed to cause controversy.
Look at the interview awhile back with Tim Schafer. The "Bobby Kotick is a prick" comment was one line in a five page article, and the interviewer expressly lead him there. The interviewer wanted that quote, he needed a juicy lede and he got it. The majority of the article was about the past and future of Double Fine games. That didn't matter though. The next day every article started with "TIM SCHAFER CALLS BOBBY KOTICK A PRICK!!" This is Chris Hecker's point. That headline was more sensational, even if it was meant mostly as an off the cuff joke. Schafer and Kotick both had to respond to it, it ate up message boards, and in the end the game news sites end up with new articles to write and more page hits.
Look at the interview awhile back with Tim Schafer. The "Bobby Kotick is a prick" comment was one line in a five page article, and the interviewer expressly lead him there. The interviewer wanted that quote, he needed a juicy lede and he got it. The majority of the article was about the past and future of Double Fine games. That didn't matter though. The next day every article started with "TIM SCHAFER CALLS BOBBY KOTICK A PRICK!!" This is Chris Hecker's point. That headline was more sensational, even if it was meant mostly as an off the cuff joke. Schafer and Kotick both had to respond to it, it ate up message boards, and in the end the game news sites end up with new articles to write and more page hits.
I'm wondering myself what's taking out of context when the guy said "The Wii is a piece of shit."
Sounds like he meant the Wii is a piece of shit. That's what I get out of it.
He's wrong, there's plenty of games on any console I could point to that have artistic merit, but that would be because processing power by itself does not open the door to creativity. Its nice and it helps, but when I see the artistic merits of Okami make the jump from PS2 and Wii down to DS, its not the strength of processing that's making that happen, but a strong aesthetic style.
Sounds like he meant the Wii is a piece of shit. That's what I get out of it.
He's wrong, there's plenty of games on any console I could point to that have artistic merit, but that would be because processing power by itself does not open the door to creativity. Its nice and it helps, but when I see the artistic merits of Okami make the jump from PS2 and Wii down to DS, its not the strength of processing that's making that happen, but a strong aesthetic style.
I've said this back when he first made his "duct tape" comment and I'll say it now.
Hes right that the Wii is two Gamecubes duct taped together, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. As a programmer, thats nothing short of a n00b comment.
Hes right that the Wii is two Gamecubes duct taped together, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. As a programmer, thats nothing short of a n00b comment.
I could give 2 shits about what he said.
i just wanna play spy party shit better hit xbox live and psn.
if not that'll be shit.
shit
i just wanna play spy party shit better hit xbox live and psn.
if not that'll be shit.
shit
Nintendo has done more via Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Kirby's Epic Yarn to advance gaming as an artform than this guy will ever do.
Uh oh, someone said something against Nintendo. People will be breaking out the pitchforks and torches.
Also, interesting article.
Also, interesting article.
I love Destructoid, but I think he may have a point. In general, blogs care about hits, more so than facts. Destructoid is one of the best blogs when it comes to the truth, but it still happens sometimes, and in general, I wouldn't trust the gaming media with anything that could be considered even REMOTELY controversial.
Flame wars and angry internet men are very quick to paint everything in black and white, and many blogs are more than happy to fan those flames in order boost traffic and ad revenue.
Flame wars and angry internet men are very quick to paint everything in black and white, and many blogs are more than happy to fan those flames in order boost traffic and ad revenue.
why doesn't Jim chime in on this one? i mean fans take what he says out of context all the time. it would be good to hear the opinions of someone in the reverse situation.
Gabe Newell from valve largely became known for his controversial statements... Though rather than the Wii he thought the PS3 was a piece of crap...sometimes you just have to wear what you say and grow a sense of humor about the whole thing (as Gabe did at last years E3). Apparently this guy hasn't learned that yet.
I love my Wii, but let's be honest: in many ways, it really is an overclocked GameCube with a peripheral. I'd like to see him quit being a pussy and just stand by what he said.
Personally, Spy Party looks good enough that I give the guy a free pass. I don't care if it isn't fair, but honestly, if he calls the wii shit or not, it won't hurt the wii, whereas I'm afraid it might've hurt the chance of his game coming out, which I really hope doesn't happen.
Wonderful article Mr Holmes!
It's weird hearing people criticize Gaming blogs for "making sensational headlines out of nothing," but that's no different than EVERY NEWS ANYTHING EVER
It's weird hearing people criticize Gaming blogs for "making sensational headlines out of nothing," but that's no different than EVERY NEWS ANYTHING EVER
This is a really good piece of writing. I think you're exactly right, too: it's not like anyone misrepresented him. When you say something that direct, you should be enough of an adult to own your words. The sad thing is that I'm pretty interested in Spy Party, and I didn't know until just now that it was made by the person behind that notorious quote. I'm trying very hard not to let it dampen my enthusiasm for the game, even though I know it's immature and reductive to link his comments with the quality of the work he's doing.
Epic-KxDtoid:
Man, I am sick and tired of people continually bashing shit. Shit is great. It manages to form a crucial part of returning nutrients to plantlife, allowing vegetation to grow and feeding all of us. Don't bash shit.
Man, I am sick and tired of people continually bashing shit. Shit is great. It manages to form a crucial part of returning nutrients to plantlife, allowing vegetation to grow and feeding all of us. Don't bash shit.
I had to sing up just to comment on this.
First of all, you shit all over what you said just by stating (about SpyParty) "It looks like it could run on the PS1". This is a ridiculous comment that says a lot about how much you are qualified to speak about games and game developers. First of all, it was an early build. Second, the type of AI algorithms and skinned mesh renderers that are being used (and are crucial to the gameplay) would not run easioly on the *Wii*, even, let alone on PS1. You should study more about the work of people who make YOUR hobby (and your job) possible.
Second, you shit all over your job by stating that the press is "only a messenger". There is no such thing as "just reporting". This, of course, is an opinion piece, but even if you were just linking to the Gamasutra rant, your CHOICE OF WORDS, the way you STRUCTURE the information, the QUOTES you choose, heck, even where and how you PLACE the link to the original article (and the kind of reader you have, because I frankly doubt that in a mainstream site such as this you would expect most of your readers to go through the original post instead of just trusting your quotes - which judging by the comments is EXACTLY what happened)... all that stuff makes you responsible for what is being said. Being a journalist is NOT easy and is a serious responsibility. You DO have responsibility.
Also, this article could have highlighted this example of WHY Hecker is in bad terms with the press:
"Now, years later, a journalist interviewed me about my new game SpyParty, indie game development in general, and my misadventures with the press. I figured enough time had passed, so I talked openly about the mistakes I'd made in the Wii rant, the context in which it happened, and how I thought the journalists who covered it also made mistakes, especially in choosing inflammatory headlines to drive traffic that grossly misrepresented the subtlety of what I was actually trying to say.
We spoke about this topic for almost an hour. We talked about how misquotes and out-of-context quotes are why most game developers never talk openly with the press, and always stay on message, even though those pre-approved messages are almost always boring and content-free. We talked about the chilling effect this has on the free flow of information in our industry. We talked about how there is a responsibility on the parts of both developers and the press to make sure interesting and accurate information is conveyed to the fans. We talked about how the title of a piece should reflect its actual content.
The article for this interview was just published with the title Hecker: I stand by my Wii is s*** rant. It's as if the conversation about the importance of the choice of title for a subtle discussion about controversial subjects never happened. The quotes inside the article present some of the longer, more nuanced discussion, but as you can read in the comments, the damage is already done. Again."
In conclusion, I don't agree with Hecker's opinions. Truth be told, I think he is kind of an idiot (even though SpyParty is very nice). BUT, mistakes HAVE BEEN made on his case. Damn it, you didn't even **MENTION** the whole "guy who ruined Spore" thing. It's DEVIOUS, unacceptable stuff.
This article of yours (and the reaction from the comments) just proved the point you aimed to dismiss.
First of all, you shit all over what you said just by stating (about SpyParty) "It looks like it could run on the PS1". This is a ridiculous comment that says a lot about how much you are qualified to speak about games and game developers. First of all, it was an early build. Second, the type of AI algorithms and skinned mesh renderers that are being used (and are crucial to the gameplay) would not run easioly on the *Wii*, even, let alone on PS1. You should study more about the work of people who make YOUR hobby (and your job) possible.
Second, you shit all over your job by stating that the press is "only a messenger". There is no such thing as "just reporting". This, of course, is an opinion piece, but even if you were just linking to the Gamasutra rant, your CHOICE OF WORDS, the way you STRUCTURE the information, the QUOTES you choose, heck, even where and how you PLACE the link to the original article (and the kind of reader you have, because I frankly doubt that in a mainstream site such as this you would expect most of your readers to go through the original post instead of just trusting your quotes - which judging by the comments is EXACTLY what happened)... all that stuff makes you responsible for what is being said. Being a journalist is NOT easy and is a serious responsibility. You DO have responsibility.
Also, this article could have highlighted this example of WHY Hecker is in bad terms with the press:
"Now, years later, a journalist interviewed me about my new game SpyParty, indie game development in general, and my misadventures with the press. I figured enough time had passed, so I talked openly about the mistakes I'd made in the Wii rant, the context in which it happened, and how I thought the journalists who covered it also made mistakes, especially in choosing inflammatory headlines to drive traffic that grossly misrepresented the subtlety of what I was actually trying to say.
We spoke about this topic for almost an hour. We talked about how misquotes and out-of-context quotes are why most game developers never talk openly with the press, and always stay on message, even though those pre-approved messages are almost always boring and content-free. We talked about the chilling effect this has on the free flow of information in our industry. We talked about how there is a responsibility on the parts of both developers and the press to make sure interesting and accurate information is conveyed to the fans. We talked about how the title of a piece should reflect its actual content.
The article for this interview was just published with the title Hecker: I stand by my Wii is s*** rant. It's as if the conversation about the importance of the choice of title for a subtle discussion about controversial subjects never happened. The quotes inside the article present some of the longer, more nuanced discussion, but as you can read in the comments, the damage is already done. Again."
In conclusion, I don't agree with Hecker's opinions. Truth be told, I think he is kind of an idiot (even though SpyParty is very nice). BUT, mistakes HAVE BEEN made on his case. Damn it, you didn't even **MENTION** the whole "guy who ruined Spore" thing. It's DEVIOUS, unacceptable stuff.
This article of yours (and the reaction from the comments) just proved the point you aimed to dismiss.
I had to sing up just to comment on this.
First of all, you shit all over what you said just by stating (about SpyParty) "It looks like it could run on the PS1". This is a ridiculous comment that says a lot about how much you are qualified to speak about games and game developers. First of all, it was an early build. Second, the type of AI algorithms and skinned mesh renderers that are being used (and are crucial to the gameplay) would not run easioly on the *Wii*, even, let alone on PS1. You should study more about the work of people who make YOUR hobby (and your job) possible.
Second, you shit all over your job by stating that the press is "only a messenger". There is no such thing as "just reporting". This, of course, is an opinion piece, but even if you were just linking to the Gamasutra rant, your CHOICE OF WORDS, the way you STRUCTURE the information, the QUOTES you choose, heck, even where and how you PLACE the link to the original article (and the kind of reader you have, because I frankly doubt that in a mainstream site such as this you would expect most of your readers to go through the original post instead of just trusting your quotes - which judging by the comments is EXACTLY what happened)... all that stuff makes you responsible for what is being said. Being a journalist is NOT easy and is a serious responsibility. You DO have responsibility.
Also, this article could have highlighted this example of WHY Hecker is in bad terms with the press:
"Now, years later, a journalist interviewed me about my new game SpyParty, indie game development in general, and my misadventures with the press. I figured enough time had passed, so I talked openly about the mistakes I'd made in the Wii rant, the context in which it happened, and how I thought the journalists who covered it also made mistakes, especially in choosing inflammatory headlines to drive traffic that grossly misrepresented the subtlety of what I was actually trying to say.
We spoke about this topic for almost an hour. We talked about how misquotes and out-of-context quotes are why most game developers never talk openly with the press, and always stay on message, even though those pre-approved messages are almost always boring and content-free. We talked about the chilling effect this has on the free flow of information in our industry. We talked about how there is a responsibility on the parts of both developers and the press to make sure interesting and accurate information is conveyed to the fans. We talked about how the title of a piece should reflect its actual content.
The article for this interview was just published with the title Hecker: I stand by my Wii is s*** rant. It's as if the conversation about the importance of the choice of title for a subtle discussion about controversial subjects never happened. The quotes inside the article present some of the longer, more nuanced discussion, but as you can read in the comments, the damage is already done. Again."
In conclusion, I don't agree with Hecker's opinions. Truth be told, I think he is kind of an idiot (even though SpyParty is very nice). BUT, mistakes HAVE BEEN made on his case. Damn it, you didn't even **MENTION** the whole "guy who ruined Spore" thing. It's DEVIOUS, unacceptable stuff.
This article of yours (and the reaction from the comments) just proved the point you aimed to dismiss.
First of all, you shit all over what you said just by stating (about SpyParty) "It looks like it could run on the PS1". This is a ridiculous comment that says a lot about how much you are qualified to speak about games and game developers. First of all, it was an early build. Second, the type of AI algorithms and skinned mesh renderers that are being used (and are crucial to the gameplay) would not run easioly on the *Wii*, even, let alone on PS1. You should study more about the work of people who make YOUR hobby (and your job) possible.
Second, you shit all over your job by stating that the press is "only a messenger". There is no such thing as "just reporting". This, of course, is an opinion piece, but even if you were just linking to the Gamasutra rant, your CHOICE OF WORDS, the way you STRUCTURE the information, the QUOTES you choose, heck, even where and how you PLACE the link to the original article (and the kind of reader you have, because I frankly doubt that in a mainstream site such as this you would expect most of your readers to go through the original post instead of just trusting your quotes - which judging by the comments is EXACTLY what happened)... all that stuff makes you responsible for what is being said. Being a journalist is NOT easy and is a serious responsibility. You DO have responsibility.
Also, this article could have highlighted this example of WHY Hecker is in bad terms with the press:
"Now, years later, a journalist interviewed me about my new game SpyParty, indie game development in general, and my misadventures with the press. I figured enough time had passed, so I talked openly about the mistakes I'd made in the Wii rant, the context in which it happened, and how I thought the journalists who covered it also made mistakes, especially in choosing inflammatory headlines to drive traffic that grossly misrepresented the subtlety of what I was actually trying to say.
We spoke about this topic for almost an hour. We talked about how misquotes and out-of-context quotes are why most game developers never talk openly with the press, and always stay on message, even though those pre-approved messages are almost always boring and content-free. We talked about the chilling effect this has on the free flow of information in our industry. We talked about how there is a responsibility on the parts of both developers and the press to make sure interesting and accurate information is conveyed to the fans. We talked about how the title of a piece should reflect its actual content.
The article for this interview was just published with the title Hecker: I stand by my Wii is s*** rant. It's as if the conversation about the importance of the choice of title for a subtle discussion about controversial subjects never happened. The quotes inside the article present some of the longer, more nuanced discussion, but as you can read in the comments, the damage is already done. Again."
In conclusion, I don't agree with Hecker's opinions. Truth be told, I think he is kind of an idiot (even though SpyParty is very nice). BUT, mistakes HAVE BEEN made on his case. Damn it, you didn't even **MENTION** the whole "guy who ruined Spore" thing. It's DEVIOUS, unacceptable stuff.
This article of yours (and the reaction from the comments) just proved the point you aimed to dismiss.
Hecker would have a point if it weren't for the fact that "the wii is a piece of shit" is what he was trying to say. He's just upset that he had to face consequences.
For fucks sake, that he thinks Nintendo is not interested in games as art is a flat out idiotic statement. Nintendo just have different priorities in what is important in a game, but that does not change if it is or is not art. Art can be amazingly simple or incredibly complex.
For fucks sake, that he thinks Nintendo is not interested in games as art is a flat out idiotic statement. Nintendo just have different priorities in what is important in a game, but that does not change if it is or is not art. Art can be amazingly simple or incredibly complex.
Most of the "art" games I've seen to this day (including Spy Party so far) look like they could run on half a Gamecube.
Nothing wrong with it, but it's funny that, in order to overcome the lack of power and lack of buttons, there are more games on the Wii with interesting visual styles and innovating gameplay mechanics than on the two more powerful consoles.
If anything, it's on MS and Sony's consoles that we've seen developers afraid to progress gaming as an art form, with the deluge of brownish shooters and stub-bearded male caucasian protagonists with interchangeable storylines.
Nothing wrong with it, but it's funny that, in order to overcome the lack of power and lack of buttons, there are more games on the Wii with interesting visual styles and innovating gameplay mechanics than on the two more powerful consoles.
If anything, it's on MS and Sony's consoles that we've seen developers afraid to progress gaming as an art form, with the deluge of brownish shooters and stub-bearded male caucasian protagonists with interchangeable storylines.
The Wii itself is a terrible console.
Whether or not that's particularly a bad thing however, is debatable. Companies can't shovel HURR SPEES MAREENS onto it, instead having to make something with a unique visual style that will run on the system and look great.
Whether or not that's particularly a bad thing however, is debatable. Companies can't shovel HURR SPEES MAREENS onto it, instead having to make something with a unique visual style that will run on the system and look great.
@Holmes
Dude, I didn't realise somebody threatened you for something you wrote? What was the article?
@trapwire
I read the article Heckler said defending his statement he made about the Wii being a piece of shit, and to be honest he didn't really make a great case for himself. How can that statement he made have been misconstrued? He still said it, and he still stands by it. It's not as if he said, the wii doesn't have the power of the PS3 or 360 and then journalists misquoted him as saying "the wii is shit, it's like two gamecubes duct-taped together" - he actually said that outright himself.
Look, as a Nintendo fan it's easy for me to rag on the guy for what he said - it was a kick in the balls to every Nintendo fan. I'm not blind, the Wii suffers from terrible online, non HD graphics and terrible 3rd party support. However, Heckler is completely missing the point as it is possible to make great games for the Wii - the main problem being Nintendo are for the most part the only people who make an effort to make visually stunning games that are fun to play. I don't condone people sending death threats to the guys wife, that's a fucking horrible thing to do just ecause someone says something you don't agree with. Christ, when I heard it I just thought "what a douche", and went about my daily business.
Dude, I didn't realise somebody threatened you for something you wrote? What was the article?
@trapwire
I read the article Heckler said defending his statement he made about the Wii being a piece of shit, and to be honest he didn't really make a great case for himself. How can that statement he made have been misconstrued? He still said it, and he still stands by it. It's not as if he said, the wii doesn't have the power of the PS3 or 360 and then journalists misquoted him as saying "the wii is shit, it's like two gamecubes duct-taped together" - he actually said that outright himself.
Look, as a Nintendo fan it's easy for me to rag on the guy for what he said - it was a kick in the balls to every Nintendo fan. I'm not blind, the Wii suffers from terrible online, non HD graphics and terrible 3rd party support. However, Heckler is completely missing the point as it is possible to make great games for the Wii - the main problem being Nintendo are for the most part the only people who make an effort to make visually stunning games that are fun to play. I don't condone people sending death threats to the guys wife, that's a fucking horrible thing to do just ecause someone says something you don't agree with. Christ, when I heard it I just thought "what a douche", and went about my daily business.
It was a very succinct statement, very effective. Might as well own it.
So SpyParty. Isn't that the game that is, in essence, just like Assassins Creed Brotherhood's Multiplayer mode? It's interesting, because it's literally two SpyParty's duct taped together. With more polys and less "art".
He should capitalize on that...
So SpyParty. Isn't that the game that is, in essence, just like Assassins Creed Brotherhood's Multiplayer mode? It's interesting, because it's literally two SpyParty's duct taped together. With more polys and less "art".
He should capitalize on that...
Well, Hecker has a right to think that with or without evidence.
The Wii itself is a piece of shit, but I could point to a list of games that run on it that aren't.
The Wii itself is a piece of shit, but I could point to a list of games that run on it that aren't.
"What if some people didn't fully understand my thoughts because they only bothered to read the headline and not the full statements? ... Would I blame anyone but myself? No, definitely not."
How exactly is this not the fault of the reader (and less so the guy who wrote the article)? There's little point in entering a debate with someone who through their own choice isn't in possession of many of the facts, and you should most certainly be angry at them if they have a go at you before reading what you actually said.
I appreciate reporters wish to generate interesting headlines for their stories (otherwise they'd be out of a job) but there is most certainly a fine line between accuracy and sensationalism that needs to be respected, and often isn't.
How exactly is this not the fault of the reader (and less so the guy who wrote the article)? There's little point in entering a debate with someone who through their own choice isn't in possession of many of the facts, and you should most certainly be angry at them if they have a go at you before reading what you actually said.
I appreciate reporters wish to generate interesting headlines for their stories (otherwise they'd be out of a job) but there is most certainly a fine line between accuracy and sensationalism that needs to be respected, and often isn't.
I consider the Wii to be a bad console and in my opinion it's a pity that so many good games are wasted on it.
"It has nothing to do with the gaming press."
did you just cop out from the significance, importance and influence of your own job?
did you just cop out from the significance, importance and influence of your own job?
"the most interesting, direct, and expressive thing he's probably ever said about videogames"
This seems a disrespecteful statement, and a silly one. Chris Hecker "helps organize the Indie Game Jam and the Experimental Gameplay Workshop, and his recent work has centered on using proceduralism and artificial intelligence to enhance player creativity and agency" (like procedural animation in spore that got all journalists happy about a technology they dont understand). Quote from his website, it might have been helpful for a "journalist" to check this out before claiming you do your job properly ;)
This seems a disrespecteful statement, and a silly one. Chris Hecker "helps organize the Indie Game Jam and the Experimental Gameplay Workshop, and his recent work has centered on using proceduralism and artificial intelligence to enhance player creativity and agency" (like procedural animation in spore that got all journalists happy about a technology they dont understand). Quote from his website, it might have been helpful for a "journalist" to check this out before claiming you do your job properly ;)
@trapwire
I found it difficult to get through what you wrote because I'm ALLERGIC to ALTERNATING *CAPS* on TEXT, but I don't really believe the whole "everything you wrote is invalid because argument x is wrong" thing.
Plus since you said you just created an account, you probably aren't familiar with Holmes, but I don't think he's really a graphics whore, so I doubt that what he said about it looking like a ps1 game was as much of a criticism as you may have made it.
While I sort of agree that it would have helped the Wii around now to have maybe upped the hardware at launch, I don't get his argument about art. I don't really get a lot of time with a Wii, but doesn't the Wii-Ware now have Cave Story, the Bit.tripp series, And Yet it Moves, and even World of Goo ? and doesn't the main catalog contain both Okami and No More Heroes? I know the definition of art is subjective, but I would defiantly consider those to be art.
I found it difficult to get through what you wrote because I'm ALLERGIC to ALTERNATING *CAPS* on TEXT, but I don't really believe the whole "everything you wrote is invalid because argument x is wrong" thing.
Plus since you said you just created an account, you probably aren't familiar with Holmes, but I don't think he's really a graphics whore, so I doubt that what he said about it looking like a ps1 game was as much of a criticism as you may have made it.
While I sort of agree that it would have helped the Wii around now to have maybe upped the hardware at launch, I don't get his argument about art. I don't really get a lot of time with a Wii, but doesn't the Wii-Ware now have Cave Story, the Bit.tripp series, And Yet it Moves, and even World of Goo ? and doesn't the main catalog contain both Okami and No More Heroes? I know the definition of art is subjective, but I would defiantly consider those to be art.
Wait, so the man that said that the Wii is shit is the same guy behind Spy Party? what a fucking hypocrite, i won't lie, the concept is absolutely full of potential but the graphics are exactly what Holmes said: PSX era, maybe from another guy or indie devs i could let it go, but from this guy? in the words of Monty Pyton: Fuck this fucking fucker.
@church you could read my comment before commenting. I don't see how my "rage caps" can stop you from doing that. I have read yours, and nothing in it looks like a proper answer to mine.
He are not entire wrong with your complains. Journalists love exagerate and push quotes in a sensacionalist way.
Although I doubt his argument really defends himself against his interaction with the press, Hecker does have a point. Sure even Destructoid is guilty of sensationalizing quotes out of context, misinterpreting instances, and going straight for the alluring controversial headline that might not be accurate.
I recall an article of FFXIII fans apparantly booing a representative on stage for offering XBox 360 copies in a competition; the headline ran, "PS3 fanboys are this bad" or somesuch, while in reality their booing was a bit of good-natured fun (as explained by one Dtoid commenter).
Another running headline was Media Molecule's desire not to not make a sequel to LBP. This was grounds enough to blame them of hypocrisy on the announcement of LBP2. But if you read the interview supposedly containing their staunch hatred of the idea of a sequel, you'll see they said something quite different - that they don't want to fragment the fanbase, and so wouldn't make a sequel that would do as much (LBP2, as it happens, retains the user-based content of LBP; the two games are advertised as working in synch).
Yes, a lot of industry bigwigs are keen to make bold statements on which the press capitilizes. But even still, the press is guilty of warping stories, interviews and the like in order to grab interest. Some writers here on Dtoid even defend their custom in doing so as their autonomous privilage, ultimately defending themselves through two typical principles: that they are validated by public interest and preference (represented by page views), and that they are the writers of the story and so can tell it how they want. Against these stances, Hecker has a point.
I recall an article of FFXIII fans apparantly booing a representative on stage for offering XBox 360 copies in a competition; the headline ran, "PS3 fanboys are this bad" or somesuch, while in reality their booing was a bit of good-natured fun (as explained by one Dtoid commenter).
Another running headline was Media Molecule's desire not to not make a sequel to LBP. This was grounds enough to blame them of hypocrisy on the announcement of LBP2. But if you read the interview supposedly containing their staunch hatred of the idea of a sequel, you'll see they said something quite different - that they don't want to fragment the fanbase, and so wouldn't make a sequel that would do as much (LBP2, as it happens, retains the user-based content of LBP; the two games are advertised as working in synch).
Yes, a lot of industry bigwigs are keen to make bold statements on which the press capitilizes. But even still, the press is guilty of warping stories, interviews and the like in order to grab interest. Some writers here on Dtoid even defend their custom in doing so as their autonomous privilage, ultimately defending themselves through two typical principles: that they are validated by public interest and preference (represented by page views), and that they are the writers of the story and so can tell it how they want. Against these stances, Hecker has a point.
Regardless of what the guy said (and as a Wii gamer myself, I have to disagree with him) he raises a very valid point about journalism. If, as his opinion piece states, the comment he made was made at an event where it was expected of him to make light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek statements, then that should be a factor in any reporting done on the event. I gave up on reading newspapers because I was so fed up with reading stupid sensationalist headlines that bore no relation to the issue that was being reported on, so I hope that games journalism won't go the same way. Keep it honest, guys. For any journalist in any field, take soundbites out of context, misconstrue arguments, and I will think less of you.
"It looks like it could run on the PS1" Jonathan Holmes
Those were placeholderr graphics, he made that clear on the blog for the game in the sidebar. If I took your comment after the game was released and publicized it as your opinion on the game you'd look kind of silly because the comment doesn't have the context of you played an early build of the game. I think this is the kind of thing he was talking about. Reporters failed to make it clear to their audience that he said "Wii is a piece of s***" in the context of a humorous talk and he wouldn't necessarily be so strongly opinioned normally.
Still though he must admit that giving a quote thats so easily exploited is stupid. Reading the article you link though he seems to acknowledge this and did try to explain himself in a later interview, but was then misquoted again. I think the responsibility is on both the reporter to give information in the right context and the person to not do/say things that are so easily exploited that they will regret. More so on the reporter though as they have a duty to report things in context to their audience. I'm not saying don't lead with a title like that, but if you do make sure its explained in its proper context in the article.
Theese kind of editorial pieces, especially from Jim and the now gone Anthony Burch, are why I keep coming back to destructoid. They're always interesting.
Those were placeholderr graphics, he made that clear on the blog for the game in the sidebar. If I took your comment after the game was released and publicized it as your opinion on the game you'd look kind of silly because the comment doesn't have the context of you played an early build of the game. I think this is the kind of thing he was talking about. Reporters failed to make it clear to their audience that he said "Wii is a piece of s***" in the context of a humorous talk and he wouldn't necessarily be so strongly opinioned normally.
Still though he must admit that giving a quote thats so easily exploited is stupid. Reading the article you link though he seems to acknowledge this and did try to explain himself in a later interview, but was then misquoted again. I think the responsibility is on both the reporter to give information in the right context and the person to not do/say things that are so easily exploited that they will regret. More so on the reporter though as they have a duty to report things in context to their audience. I'm not saying don't lead with a title like that, but if you do make sure its explained in its proper context in the article.
Theese kind of editorial pieces, especially from Jim and the now gone Anthony Burch, are why I keep coming back to destructoid. They're always interesting.
"These kind of editorial pieces, especially from Jim and the now gone Anthony Burch, are why I keep coming back to destructoid. They're always interesting."
I agree with that. There's been a bit of a dry spell of editorials recently so it's great to see some interesting original content. Also, Mr. Holmes is great in general.
I agree with that. There's been a bit of a dry spell of editorials recently so it's great to see some interesting original content. Also, Mr. Holmes is great in general.
"Besides, it's not the press's job to get into people's heads on their behalf and explain to the world what they really think."
Unless they can make it more exciting for page views of course.
Unless they can make it more exciting for page views of course.
Oh he's that guy? Had he not brought the whole thing up again I wouldn't have known. Had he not done so in this fashion I would still be interested in Spy Party.
@ Jonathan Holmes, Jim Sterling and everyone agreeing with this article, here are 3 quotes from the guy himself, emphasis mine:
"In 2007, I gave a "rant" at the Game Developers Conference, entitled, Fear of a Wii Planet. Rants at the GDC are short lectures given by developers that, at their best, are thought-provoking, entertaining, and controversial. They are usually given in a tongue-in-cheek style, which is not to say they're fictional or not truthful, just that the good ones try to balance comedy, veracity, detail, and rhetorical effect.
In this rant I said the following quote: "The Wii is a piece of shit."
It got a lot of laughs—I was blasting Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet in the background for comedic effect—and then I went on to explain what I meant in relatively technical terms, which I'll talk about below. "
"No one at the rant, in the context, thought it was a big deal, and this included a senior Electronic Arts executive on the rant panel itself."
"Now, years later, a journalist interviewed me about my new game SpyParty, indie game development in general, and my misadventures with the press. I figured enough time had passed, so I talked openly about the mistakes I'd made in the Wii rant, the context in which it happened, and how I thought the journalists who covered it also made mistakes, especially in choosing inflammatory headlines to drive traffic that grossly misrepresented the subtlety of what I was actually trying to say.
We spoke about this topic for almost an hour.We talked about how misquotes and out-of-context quotes are why most game developers never talk openly with the press, and always stay on message, even though those pre-approved messages are almost always boring and content-free. [...] We talked about how there is a responsibility on the parts of both developers and the press to make sure interesting and accurate information is conveyed to the fans.
The article for this interview was just published with the title Hecker: I stand by my Wii is s*** rant. "
Source: http://chrishecker.com/Me_and_the_Wii
So yeah, when people (In this case, journalists) purposedly don't carry the context of a quote (in this case, "tongue-in-cheek"ness) - especially here where it makes ALL the difference - then the guy's'got rights to blame the press for it, as long as he doesn't think there the only problem (and he obviously doesn't.) No offense Jonathan, but I don't think you actually understood what the guy was trying to say. You might want to read the link I posted above.
"In 2007, I gave a "rant" at the Game Developers Conference, entitled, Fear of a Wii Planet. Rants at the GDC are short lectures given by developers that, at their best, are thought-provoking, entertaining, and controversial. They are usually given in a tongue-in-cheek style, which is not to say they're fictional or not truthful, just that the good ones try to balance comedy, veracity, detail, and rhetorical effect.
In this rant I said the following quote: "The Wii is a piece of shit."
It got a lot of laughs—I was blasting Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet in the background for comedic effect—and then I went on to explain what I meant in relatively technical terms, which I'll talk about below. "
"No one at the rant, in the context, thought it was a big deal, and this included a senior Electronic Arts executive on the rant panel itself."
"Now, years later, a journalist interviewed me about my new game SpyParty, indie game development in general, and my misadventures with the press. I figured enough time had passed, so I talked openly about the mistakes I'd made in the Wii rant, the context in which it happened, and how I thought the journalists who covered it also made mistakes, especially in choosing inflammatory headlines to drive traffic that grossly misrepresented the subtlety of what I was actually trying to say.
We spoke about this topic for almost an hour.We talked about how misquotes and out-of-context quotes are why most game developers never talk openly with the press, and always stay on message, even though those pre-approved messages are almost always boring and content-free. [...] We talked about how there is a responsibility on the parts of both developers and the press to make sure interesting and accurate information is conveyed to the fans.
The article for this interview was just published with the title Hecker: I stand by my Wii is s*** rant. "
Source: http://chrishecker.com/Me_and_the_Wii
So yeah, when people (In this case, journalists) purposedly don't carry the context of a quote (in this case, "tongue-in-cheek"ness) - especially here where it makes ALL the difference - then the guy's'got rights to blame the press for it, as long as he doesn't think there the only problem (and he obviously doesn't.) No offense Jonathan, but I don't think you actually understood what the guy was trying to say. You might want to read the link I posted above.
I should have formated that way better, but whatever. Go read the original post from the guy if the quotes are too confusing.
Well said Mr. Holmes! Great holiday reading, even if it inadvertently reminded me that there are still people who arbitrarily hate on the Wii. ...Twats.
Signed in after months of lurking just to say that I disagree with Holmes on this one. Mobius Einherjar and tripwire have articulated it well enough, but it sounds like you guys just don't understand what he is saying and are defensively attacking his 'Wii shit' statement. This guy has obviously gotten screwed by gaming press before so his statements sound very justified. And when you actually read his article, than you would know why he said what he said.
This only goes to show that mainstream videogames news sites are still just as bad as real life news sites. But too many gaming sites are New York Posts and I can't really find any that are at least New York Times. Now if I can just find The Economist for videogames than I would not have to read the linked article for these kinds of posts just for accurate information.
This only goes to show that mainstream videogames news sites are still just as bad as real life news sites. But too many gaming sites are New York Posts and I can't really find any that are at least New York Times. Now if I can just find The Economist for videogames than I would not have to read the linked article for these kinds of posts just for accurate information.
I said it at the time and I'll say it again. This was said at the Game Developers Conference in a panel about tackling the new hardware and it's effects on the old game development process. This wasn't a place where Sony was unveiling Super Pigeon Eater 3000, this was a place for developers to escape the tabloidistic nature of games journalism and speak frankly. But this was also the year that GDC was overrun with journalists on a budget searching for the new E3 and frankly, DIDN'T FUCKING BELONG THERE. They took the comment, removed the context, and kept the buzzline from an event that was so over their head, they hadn't a frakin clue what anyone there was on about.
The reaction happened, Hecker had to swallow his pride and kiss some ass of a company so piss awful scared of a new IP, that Kirby found his way into a game where he didn't belong. And at the end of the day, nothing changed except developers could no longer speak honestly about the struggles with Wii like they could every other platform on the market.
And all because some people were where they didn't belong. This is exactly why there are websites out there that game journalists are instabanned from and fantarded console warriors are shunned and pushed out as well. Because game developers need open forums to vent their frustrations and the Game Developers Conference was stolen from them.
The reaction happened, Hecker had to swallow his pride and kiss some ass of a company so piss awful scared of a new IP, that Kirby found his way into a game where he didn't belong. And at the end of the day, nothing changed except developers could no longer speak honestly about the struggles with Wii like they could every other platform on the market.
And all because some people were where they didn't belong. This is exactly why there are websites out there that game journalists are instabanned from and fantarded console warriors are shunned and pushed out as well. Because game developers need open forums to vent their frustrations and the Game Developers Conference was stolen from them.
Let me start by saying i've never seen Johnathan Holmes freak out or say anything expressly negative about anyone. I think he's not a shit talker. But on the other hand, there ARE a few editors here at Destructoid that are muck rakers and will take every opportunity to turn a normal news story into a negative one. Some editors are more guilty of this than others (not to name any names, but everyone knows who i'm mostly referencing).
It's really hard for me to take this editorial seriously, even if it is from someone who's opinion I respect (which is rare on a gaming blog site, Johnathan Holmes, you get my only gold star.) Because of the history Destructoid has in my mind with flashy titles that are negative and have little to do usually with the actual story.
Oh, FUCK IT. I'm talking about Jim Sterling. I've seen maybe one post on destructoid in the past 2 years that was not negative and that was the Dragon Quest game for the DS. Every one thing the guy writes he is literally pissing on everyone. I don't understand how one person could be SO negative. I've actually taken note of this and made it a point to be less negative in my life as i've caught on to this. At this point I feel like Destructoid only keeps Sterling around to stir as much shit up as possible and up page views. It really sucks and I feel like Destructoid could be a really great and respectable site, alot of smart people work here. But unfortunatly my least favorite person does almost all the reviews and articles. Once at E3 there was an interview with some game dev and he said "Destructoid? That's like the second worst gaming blog I've ever been to" and when I first heard that, I was new and I didn't understand why someone would say that because I appreciated the different outlook that this site has. But now things are starting to become a little more clear. I'd like to see this site grow to "San Francisco Chronicle" level rather than "The Weekly World News"
It's really hard for me to take this editorial seriously, even if it is from someone who's opinion I respect (which is rare on a gaming blog site, Johnathan Holmes, you get my only gold star.) Because of the history Destructoid has in my mind with flashy titles that are negative and have little to do usually with the actual story.
Oh, FUCK IT. I'm talking about Jim Sterling. I've seen maybe one post on destructoid in the past 2 years that was not negative and that was the Dragon Quest game for the DS. Every one thing the guy writes he is literally pissing on everyone. I don't understand how one person could be SO negative. I've actually taken note of this and made it a point to be less negative in my life as i've caught on to this. At this point I feel like Destructoid only keeps Sterling around to stir as much shit up as possible and up page views. It really sucks and I feel like Destructoid could be a really great and respectable site, alot of smart people work here. But unfortunatly my least favorite person does almost all the reviews and articles. Once at E3 there was an interview with some game dev and he said "Destructoid? That's like the second worst gaming blog I've ever been to" and when I first heard that, I was new and I didn't understand why someone would say that because I appreciated the different outlook that this site has. But now things are starting to become a little more clear. I'd like to see this site grow to "San Francisco Chronicle" level rather than "The Weekly World News"
@sheppy
hear hear
Mr Holmes and Sterling (shit you guys should be in a stage production with such names), while the core of your message (one of Harden the Fuck up) is well appreciated. It doesn't really address what the man is complaining about. What was a bit of a joke between colleagues was misrepresented in the articles written about it and blasted out of context.
Then when the man sits down to have a discussion with a journalist about the problem, the journalist then goes and does the exact same thing. I'm sorry, but if you want a sensational headline, can you not also have the context to go with, or is that just too much professionalism?
hear hear
Mr Holmes and Sterling (shit you guys should be in a stage production with such names), while the core of your message (one of Harden the Fuck up) is well appreciated. It doesn't really address what the man is complaining about. What was a bit of a joke between colleagues was misrepresented in the articles written about it and blasted out of context.
Then when the man sits down to have a discussion with a journalist about the problem, the journalist then goes and does the exact same thing. I'm sorry, but if you want a sensational headline, can you not also have the context to go with, or is that just too much professionalism?
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