surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
Or it could disillusion those people more, separating their moral compass further from society and causing them to become even more crazy and violent.
But it's not like games and the internet are the only things to blame... society has been getting more and more effed up these last few decades even before the internet popped up.
But it's not like games and the internet are the only things to blame... society has been getting more and more effed up these last few decades even before the internet popped up.
Its true, after a specially long marathon of gaming and internet porn, I had a hankering for Broadway shows and appletinis, I also dumped my girlfriend and married my Golden Classic Controller Pro.
What a ridiculous article. This man has done the work, got the research and put up a hypothesis. You however, have a guess with some pretty loose opinions to support it.
And yes, with world of warcraft in the 1900s we would have had wars. You know how I know that? We still have war happening all over the world. Not everyone seeks power in WoW, they seek it where ever they can find it.
And yes, with world of warcraft in the 1900s we would have had wars. You know how I know that? We still have war happening all over the world. Not everyone seeks power in WoW, they seek it where ever they can find it.
I believe Colin Campbell http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/25/are-porn-and-games-basically-the-same-thing got the answer or something like that.
I just want to point out that the first page of statistics, about male's underperforming in education has been the case for as long as we've been collecting data on it in the U.S. Male's have just always had tougher times in school, so that piece has nothing to do with his argument about "thing's getting worse".
The social awkardness thing, however, is fairly interesting. I would like to see the actual research to be able to make a judgement, but I could see how less interaction in the real world could lead to a reduced ability to understand body language, a key part of communication. But the fact that he has a predisposition towards what a "Guy" should be suggests that, at least in part, this interpretation of the data is informed by his beliefs on what a Male should be, regardless of cultural change.
The social awkardness thing, however, is fairly interesting. I would like to see the actual research to be able to make a judgement, but I could see how less interaction in the real world could lead to a reduced ability to understand body language, a key part of communication. But the fact that he has a predisposition towards what a "Guy" should be suggests that, at least in part, this interpretation of the data is informed by his beliefs on what a Male should be, regardless of cultural change.
Too much of anything is a bad thing, as Holmes suggested. This is not news. Too much oxygen is a bad thing. Try working in an oxygen enriched environment and see what happens. Moderation in everything.
While I find all this videogames causing violence stuff bs I do see how what he poses is plausible sure it may not be as big as he illustrates (theses ted speeches usually blow things up) but the idea itself is not wrong. Remember he doesn't say videogames the internet and porn are bad on their own its the amount that may be the problem.
Well yes internet changed human relations, but I don't know if it was for the best. It's too soon to know that.
Your question should be answered by you: as a psychologist would you think it's healthy for people to live in another "reality"? (which is not so different from some mental diseases out there).
I say the day humanity creates life like sex dolls, things will get weird. Impossible to predict.
Your question should be answered by you: as a psychologist would you think it's healthy for people to live in another "reality"? (which is not so different from some mental diseases out there).
I say the day humanity creates life like sex dolls, things will get weird. Impossible to predict.
"Last time I checked, it was guys who commit most of the violent crimes, start the most wars, and cause the most problems in the world. If online videogames and porn are holding these kinds of men back from finding positions of power, then the internet may end up saving millions of lives."
This is the dumbest thing I've heard today. Holmes, you're by far my favorite editor here on Dtoid, but I have to say you're not seeing the problem. If you are, than you're doing what a lot of us- hell, what I even want to do: separate ourselves from the problem.
There are far too many people (including me) who spend far too much time online and gaming, and while I agree that you can't generalize gamers as awkward social rejects, there is something to what this man has to say. I think it's ridiculous to let a four and a half minute video change the way you live your life, but I think it's something all of us should examine about ourselves. How much is too much? How are these things affecting our social life? Are we becoming hermits as a result of becoming TOO comfortable by ourselves?
As someone who considers himself dependent of games and teh internets, this video makes me a little uncomfortable. That's a good thing. I will continue to game, continue to don the digital surfboard. It's just something to consider.
This is the dumbest thing I've heard today. Holmes, you're by far my favorite editor here on Dtoid, but I have to say you're not seeing the problem. If you are, than you're doing what a lot of us- hell, what I even want to do: separate ourselves from the problem.
There are far too many people (including me) who spend far too much time online and gaming, and while I agree that you can't generalize gamers as awkward social rejects, there is something to what this man has to say. I think it's ridiculous to let a four and a half minute video change the way you live your life, but I think it's something all of us should examine about ourselves. How much is too much? How are these things affecting our social life? Are we becoming hermits as a result of becoming TOO comfortable by ourselves?
As someone who considers himself dependent of games and teh internets, this video makes me a little uncomfortable. That's a good thing. I will continue to game, continue to don the digital surfboard. It's just something to consider.
I blame urbanization and how it creates isolation even while being around thousands.
There is also how we are so aggresivly told how we should be by tv, movies and marketing. Some people will react by pulling away from people and hide in worlds where they can be the ideal image.
There is also how we are so aggresivly told how we should be by tv, movies and marketing. Some people will react by pulling away from people and hide in worlds where they can be the ideal image.
Pretty interesting. But I think I agree with this comment on the video more.
"80/20 rule. 80% of guys aren't sought out by girls, 20% are.
the other 80% become jaded and practically disenfranchised by women. They see girls acting all ambivalent toward THEM, and see girls open their legs toward the 20%. alpha/beta paradigm."
"80/20 rule. 80% of guys aren't sought out by girls, 20% are.
the other 80% become jaded and practically disenfranchised by women. They see girls acting all ambivalent toward THEM, and see girls open their legs toward the 20%. alpha/beta paradigm."
I play video games. I have long conversations with friends face-to-face. I read Homer and Plato nearly everyday.
Nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed.
I don't really have a problem with what is being said in the video. He never says video games are bad and we need to stop playing them. He's merely making the observation that the rate at which we are consuming digital content is effecting our performance in the analog world. Maybe give the games a rest for a few hours and read a book or shag some biddies.
@long john
pretty sure they already have those sex dolls
That said having first-hand experience with a friend in the "throes of WoW addiction" it definitely does completely mess up the way people socialize. I think most people by nature are social, even introverts but to less of an extent obviously or maybe they just have anxiety's that are alleviated by a screen of anonymity through WoW and other such forums.
That said, for 2 years I only ever got him to come out of his apartment to hang out with our group of friends 4 times. In TWO years. Granted this is an extreme example and I know many people with perfectly healthy social lives that play WoW, but the signs are there.
You could also say that the opportunity for addiction is in everything, but then it comes down to the debate of what's more productive and useful. An addiction in guitar that could produce a world-renowned musician, or a guy addicted to a game that produces a...world renowed WoW-player?
Personally, after having played WoW and noticing the definite addictive factors myself but moreso in my friend who got me playing in the first place...i can agree with him saying that it's definitely changing socialization and in my personal opinion harming it.
pretty sure they already have those sex dolls
That said having first-hand experience with a friend in the "throes of WoW addiction" it definitely does completely mess up the way people socialize. I think most people by nature are social, even introverts but to less of an extent obviously or maybe they just have anxiety's that are alleviated by a screen of anonymity through WoW and other such forums.
That said, for 2 years I only ever got him to come out of his apartment to hang out with our group of friends 4 times. In TWO years. Granted this is an extreme example and I know many people with perfectly healthy social lives that play WoW, but the signs are there.
You could also say that the opportunity for addiction is in everything, but then it comes down to the debate of what's more productive and useful. An addiction in guitar that could produce a world-renowned musician, or a guy addicted to a game that produces a...world renowed WoW-player?
Personally, after having played WoW and noticing the definite addictive factors myself but moreso in my friend who got me playing in the first place...i can agree with him saying that it's definitely changing socialization and in my personal opinion harming it.
Your response of "oh well. People like that are predisposed to addiction anyway, so what's the problem" really bothers me. It's true to an extent, but we should hold ourselves responsible to it regardless as well.
"you mustn't allow yourself to be chained to fate. To be ruled by your genes."
Dr. Naomi Campbell
"you mustn't allow yourself to be chained to fate. To be ruled by your genes."
Dr. Naomi Campbell
@L3ed: you know to moderate your usage then. I agree with dtomek: its about moderation. Too much of anything is bad. People need to practice self control and force themselves out of their safe zones. My original comment should have been: I agree with him in that all this tech and the internet is ruining how we socialize. Due to people over doing it andnot practicing moderation.
It's not the tech or the internets fault. It's ours.
It's not the tech or the internets fault. It's ours.
He has some valid points in there. Idk about you guys but I cringe every time I hear someone insert an internet meme into their verbal speech but laugh when I see a guy do it in front of a chick. Learning how to talk from gaming is a terrible plague and the isolation between gamers now compared to when we were a bit younger is crazy since the online gaming boom. But, theres stuff in there that I kinda disagree with like how its bad to prefer to go to the bar to watch the big game vs staying with your significant other. Unless shes into the sport, the atmosphere/conversations between the people present is completely different
Here's a crazy idea: Maybe the things Zimbardo thinks we're losing are over-valued.
There's also two sides to the coin, as with any issue. Some people get arousal addiction to the internet, sure. Some become secluded, sure. Others use it as a tool to socialize in a more meaningful way. We see internet organized events every day, from big lan parties to flashmobs to giant charity events. We have people conversing with people across the world with the internet, engaging in conversations that would be completely impossible otherwise because we don't have and cannot have face to face conversation with those people.
Zimbardo says he's here to alarm, and isn't looking for a solution. But he's also not looking at all the good thing that is coming with this "demise of guys" He's also not considering (or at least not out loud) things like homosexuality (or other gender @ sexual minorities). He keeps mentioning how guys are having less meaningful interactions with the opposite sex, well what if more guys are just realizing they aren't interested?
There are a lot of factors here that he's either not aware of or actively ignoring, and while I think this is being researched further, I don't just take Zimbardo's word for it.
There's also two sides to the coin, as with any issue. Some people get arousal addiction to the internet, sure. Some become secluded, sure. Others use it as a tool to socialize in a more meaningful way. We see internet organized events every day, from big lan parties to flashmobs to giant charity events. We have people conversing with people across the world with the internet, engaging in conversations that would be completely impossible otherwise because we don't have and cannot have face to face conversation with those people.
Zimbardo says he's here to alarm, and isn't looking for a solution. But he's also not looking at all the good thing that is coming with this "demise of guys" He's also not considering (or at least not out loud) things like homosexuality (or other gender @ sexual minorities). He keeps mentioning how guys are having less meaningful interactions with the opposite sex, well what if more guys are just realizing they aren't interested?
There are a lot of factors here that he's either not aware of or actively ignoring, and while I think this is being researched further, I don't just take Zimbardo's word for it.
Disenfranchisement and marginalization are the problems here. Digital crack (and real crack, for that matter) is just a symptom.
Social conditioning thins the herd just as well as any disease outbreak. Being strongest, smartest or most skilled doesn't hold a candle to being a well-connected social performer these days.
Social conditioning thins the herd just as well as any disease outbreak. Being strongest, smartest or most skilled doesn't hold a candle to being a well-connected social performer these days.
It's an unfortunate situation but the over use of porn and video games seems like an odd reason. Those could just be the symptoms as opposed to the cause.
It's probably not as simple as men being rejected by women. Most people seem to be able to find somebody if they try.
Whatever the cause may be, it seems to complicated for me to say exactely what it is. It may be a combination of how our culture treats men, changes in technology, and personal responsibility.
It's probably not as simple as men being rejected by women. Most people seem to be able to find somebody if they try.
Whatever the cause may be, it seems to complicated for me to say exactely what it is. It may be a combination of how our culture treats men, changes in technology, and personal responsibility.
I love the internet, porn, and video games, and I consider myself a rather well adjusted and very happy individual. Fuck the haters.
This is so awesome. The comments section of a post about the negative effects of gaming and the internet is full of reflection, and totally lacking in knee-jerk anger. Proud of Dtoid commenters right now. :)
It's an evolution of how we communicate. People got pissed at Gutenberg because he was making writing/books more widestream, because they were old tired and afraid of change.
The internet is changing the world. There will always be people who protest because they are old, but it isn't ever going to stop. Argue all you want, but this is a new way of socializing.
Think of it this way: did the phone ruin socializing? The ability to talk to someone hundreds or thousands of miles away; did that make it so people stopped visting each other? Did it "cause the demise of guys?"
Of course not, but I bet there were people back then arguing this same tired argument.
TL;DR: The world changes, people complain, then their generation dies out and nobody cares anymore. This guy is that generation.
The internet is changing the world. There will always be people who protest because they are old, but it isn't ever going to stop. Argue all you want, but this is a new way of socializing.
Think of it this way: did the phone ruin socializing? The ability to talk to someone hundreds or thousands of miles away; did that make it so people stopped visting each other? Did it "cause the demise of guys?"
Of course not, but I bet there were people back then arguing this same tired argument.
TL;DR: The world changes, people complain, then their generation dies out and nobody cares anymore. This guy is that generation.
Normally I'm quick to go off on something like this, but I can't exactly disagree with him. He's right. The internet, video games, and porn have largely had that affect on Western men (and Eastern if you wanna include the first world Asian nations). They're not the only things, but they're one of the biggest influences in that change. Also:
"Last time I checked, it was guys who... cause the most problems in the world."
Between you and Jim I'm not sure if I can take the passive aggressive anarcha-feminism that gets shoved down our throats via this site on a daily basis. I say this with all due respect: please the frig up about it.
"Last time I checked, it was guys who... cause the most problems in the world."
Between you and Jim I'm not sure if I can take the passive aggressive anarcha-feminism that gets shoved down our throats via this site on a daily basis. I say this with all due respect: please the frig up about it.
@sluntchop - Its Holmes, this is pretty much par for the course. Read some of his backlog and you'll see that this guy suggesting more people becoming maladjusted, porn-addicted shut-ins would have somehow stopped World War II from happening is simply not that shocking.
While personally I could put some limitations on these things to focus more life benefiting issues; It's not really a problem per se if the person in this position doesn't consider the fact of it being so. Live and let live, or something like that.
I'm wondering if Holmes' cheap-shot toward the undoubtedly large demographic of Dtoid's readership (males) is just for click-bait and comment-bait? Or is he just passive-aggressively rattling off his own true (or haphazardly gathered) opinions on gender? Sad either way.
Zimbardo is a sick bastard just look at that prison experiment, but that doesn't make him wrong this time I guess, there might be some truth in there.
@Tris
You're also 10-15 years older than the generation that has had the fast internet and social networking stuff that's become ubiquitous with daily life for nearly all of theirs, grandpa. You let me know if you want to write a stern letter to the editor, I'll grab my quill and book of stamps too.
//
Fella's talking about fauxcializing, and he makes a point. [SARCASM]Maybe if the xenoestrogens in mommy's deodorant didn't make sure we'd all have micropenis before we left the womb, we would have the confidence to socialize with women and compete in life, rather than fauxcializing with "women", and competing over who has the bigger Mass Effect opinion on NeoGaf.[/SARCASM]
You're also 10-15 years older than the generation that has had the fast internet and social networking stuff that's become ubiquitous with daily life for nearly all of theirs, grandpa. You let me know if you want to write a stern letter to the editor, I'll grab my quill and book of stamps too.
//
Fella's talking about fauxcializing, and he makes a point. [SARCASM]Maybe if the xenoestrogens in mommy's deodorant didn't make sure we'd all have micropenis before we left the womb, we would have the confidence to socialize with women and compete in life, rather than fauxcializing with "women", and competing over who has the bigger Mass Effect opinion on NeoGaf.[/SARCASM]
Generation A gives birth to Generation B. Generation B grows up in a different world than generation A, and so Generation A assumes this world is awful and terrible because it's not the one grew up in. This has not changed, nor will it ever change. Film was looked at with the same kind of criticism, look where that industry is today.
The internet gave birth to globalization, which in my opinion, is why we live in the most peaceful time in human history (that part is a fact). As for gaming, it's a budding medium. It needs time to reach its full potential, but we're already seeing some really incredible games that are original and thought provoking. I spend a lot of my time playing video games, but I also learn a lot from them, just as I would learn from reading a book.
People will obsess, it's human nature, we just have to make sure what they are obsessing over can at least have the opportunity to be good for them. The best thing to do is to prove this guy wrong. Give him the Stanley Parable.
The internet gave birth to globalization, which in my opinion, is why we live in the most peaceful time in human history (that part is a fact). As for gaming, it's a budding medium. It needs time to reach its full potential, but we're already seeing some really incredible games that are original and thought provoking. I spend a lot of my time playing video games, but I also learn a lot from them, just as I would learn from reading a book.
People will obsess, it's human nature, we just have to make sure what they are obsessing over can at least have the opportunity to be good for them. The best thing to do is to prove this guy wrong. Give him the Stanley Parable.
I mean, Holmes' comment does hold at least a teency bit of truth, but overall yeah... it does seem a little much to say that.
And about the subject of "Demise of Guys", if he's suggesting that all that is directing causing it then that's just plain wrong. It's always the person's fault. Always. Whether it be because they're fracking nuts, they have little to no self-control, etc.
Now, I will admit that it seems that internet, games, etc. are perhaps weeding out those kinds of people more and more these days. We've never had such an overwhelming amount of reasons to not leave our homes or just become more secluded. And we all need to learn some self-control for the sake of the way our world is changing which is, for the most part, for the better I believe. The internet, games, etc. don't just do bad.
And about the subject of "Demise of Guys", if he's suggesting that all that is directing causing it then that's just plain wrong. It's always the person's fault. Always. Whether it be because they're fracking nuts, they have little to no self-control, etc.
Now, I will admit that it seems that internet, games, etc. are perhaps weeding out those kinds of people more and more these days. We've never had such an overwhelming amount of reasons to not leave our homes or just become more secluded. And we all need to learn some self-control for the sake of the way our world is changing which is, for the most part, for the better I believe. The internet, games, etc. don't just do bad.
Interesting opinion Holmes. It wouldn't surprise me at all if man as a whole has had a negative social kind of impact from the internet. I know many kids that I went to high school with that have basically become shut-ins and never go out and meet anyone. If you're facing social anxiety, have trouble finding a job, and can't get a date, a video game that allows you to be a very powerful being that is the center of attention would seem like a much better alternative, even if it isn't "real".
Also, why does everyone get so butt hurt over one person's opinion and feel the need to personally insult and ridicule them? Fucking grow up.
Also, why does everyone get so butt hurt over one person's opinion and feel the need to personally insult and ridicule them? Fucking grow up.
@holmes
Also, if we follow your line of reasoning, porn and games affecting millions of men wouldn't just stop something like WWII. It would also stop penicillin, vaccines, the airplane, the computer you are typing on, electricity, etc. I guess you were just trying to stir up something so maybe I fell for it.
Also, if we follow your line of reasoning, porn and games affecting millions of men wouldn't just stop something like WWII. It would also stop penicillin, vaccines, the airplane, the computer you are typing on, electricity, etc. I guess you were just trying to stir up something so maybe I fell for it.
"His take on the data is that with increase use of virtual means of arousal like internet communication, videogames, and pornography, men are less bound to be attracted to seeking out 'real' sources of arousal, such as success at school, work, and in finding a mate."
Or performing torturous experiments on your students in the basement.
I'm a guy who spends a lot of time on his computer, but I've always been a very private person. I sat alone in recess, read alone in the library during lunch break, and "hung out" with kids in my neighborhood more out of a sense of obligation to my parents rather than a real desire to see them. If I choose to spend my free time solo and doing something I enjoy, I'd argue that's more ethical and mentally healthy than hanging out with people just for the sake of doing it. Because while I don't see people as much, the quality of my interactions with them has definitely increased exponentially.
Besides, while it's not a substitute for face-to-face communication, now I can hit them up on Steam if I want to chat for awhile, regardless of how far away they live.
Or performing torturous experiments on your students in the basement.
I'm a guy who spends a lot of time on his computer, but I've always been a very private person. I sat alone in recess, read alone in the library during lunch break, and "hung out" with kids in my neighborhood more out of a sense of obligation to my parents rather than a real desire to see them. If I choose to spend my free time solo and doing something I enjoy, I'd argue that's more ethical and mentally healthy than hanging out with people just for the sake of doing it. Because while I don't see people as much, the quality of my interactions with them has definitely increased exponentially.
Besides, while it's not a substitute for face-to-face communication, now I can hit them up on Steam if I want to chat for awhile, regardless of how far away they live.
Considering that I first heard about Zimbardo in my Introduction to Psychology Class, I always thought he was a PSYCHOLOGIST not a SOCIOLOGIST. Minor nitpick aside, I'm really not going to take the advice of "men having to man up" from a noted womanizer and overall douche who married one of his grad students while The Stanford Prison Experiment was still going on. Maybe THAT's what he thinks men should do.
"Would we have had a World War 2 if Brazzers and World of Warcraft existed in 1900's Germany?"
Are you kind of insane?
Are you kind of insane?
Sociology is based on conjecture and correlation, and more conjecture off of conjectured findings based on theory and conjecture. Personally, just can't take the field seriously.
You can't just go "ceteris paribus" and go on about how X or Y is directly affecting people in a negative way. There's an incomprehensible dearth of variables that you just can't take into account.
You can't just go "ceteris paribus" and go on about how X or Y is directly affecting people in a negative way. There's an incomprehensible dearth of variables that you just can't take into account.
With the massive societal shifts and the general change in how the mens role in a family is, I can't say I blame them, I do agree with him with the social networking and cellphone thing, nothing like sitting down with a friend to eat lunch and the first thing he does is whip out his phone.
I fucking hate that my brother does it this and I've told him numerous times, if you're at the table with me, put the fucking phone down and the laptop away, I want to have a convo with you, not the back of your screen.
I fucking hate that my brother does it this and I've told him numerous times, if you're at the table with me, put the fucking phone down and the laptop away, I want to have a convo with you, not the back of your screen.
follow
