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" ... , as combat is dependent on both the angle of the sword strikes and many other things, and as far as I can tell there is no way they could've replicated that without a full motion controller."
I completely DISAGREE with that statement. There were six different slash types in Ocarina of Time based on how you adjusted the control stick... And that game wasn't designed around specific combat style.
Any designer worth his salary could implement a similar, strategic style of play on a controller. How did so many people get brainwashed into thinking otherwise?
I completely DISAGREE with that statement. There were six different slash types in Ocarina of Time based on how you adjusted the control stick... And that game wasn't designed around specific combat style.
Any designer worth his salary could implement a similar, strategic style of play on a controller. How did so many people get brainwashed into thinking otherwise?
Citizen Kane should have been a Bollywood movie. I get bored with any movies that don't have singing. And black and white is like, totally boring.
@Tony Ponce
Sparring is sparring. It's fencing. It isn't real combat. Real combat is rarely as elegant as it is ever made out to be. Ask war vets who have had to get up close and personal with enemy combatants. I know a Korean war vet who had to rip a man's jaw off after the man bayoneted him in the stomach. He was taught to do stuff like that in boot camp. They taught you how to do martial arts and Judo and the like. In real life combat is fast and brutal.
In the older games the combat was fast and brutal. If you slipped up you would be dead fast. Likewise in Link to the Past and especially Zelda 2 you died fast if you didn't have the reflexes to back it up. Modern Zelda lacks this and it's because it's in the hands of someone who sucked at and has no respect for the gameplay of the original games.
Sparring is sparring. It's fencing. It isn't real combat. Real combat is rarely as elegant as it is ever made out to be. Ask war vets who have had to get up close and personal with enemy combatants. I know a Korean war vet who had to rip a man's jaw off after the man bayoneted him in the stomach. He was taught to do stuff like that in boot camp. They taught you how to do martial arts and Judo and the like. In real life combat is fast and brutal.
In the older games the combat was fast and brutal. If you slipped up you would be dead fast. Likewise in Link to the Past and especially Zelda 2 you died fast if you didn't have the reflexes to back it up. Modern Zelda lacks this and it's because it's in the hands of someone who sucked at and has no respect for the gameplay of the original games.
I've played a lot of games with surprisingly poor controls, particularly in the PS1 and PS2 eras, where many games limited your control options entirely to sensitivity and axis selection. I still play some games today which have lackluster control, which can hinder the experience and cause frustration (Alone in the Dark being the most recent offender; great for a bargain bin find, though, I have to say. Another example in recent memory is Too Human.)
I really don't think Skyward Sword should be singled out because of its controls in the way that it's inevitably going to be, purely because it's a motion control game. I've seen so many games skate by where the controls are only vaguely mentioned despite being uncomfortable or unintuitive. Many older games, people just say "the controls aren't so good" and sort of take it in stride. This isn't the case with motion games, however, because there's still a stigma present with the control method as a whole. Is it because the controls really render the game unplayable, or is it because we expect supernatural accuracy, because we're supposed to be more actively in control with motion? I love traditional controllers, in fact I universally prefer them to motion controls, but I do not expect motion controls to be more accurate in practice than a traditional controller; it's unfair to expect motion controls to "beat" traditional controls, even though that is how motion controls have been marketed.
I wish I could add up and provide a quantified list of every inaccurate jump, mind-bogglingly terrible control layout, or purely accidental input which screwed me up in a game utilizing a control pad. It's something that literally happens in every single game I play. Some games just aren't intuitive or easy to pick up; it takes time and dedication to become comfortable with games like this, to understand what they're going to do when you interact with them. Whether that is through motion controls or traditional gamepads is of no consequence whatsoever, in my experience. You just have to get used to it.
Because Skyward Sword is a motion control game, and because it has been hyped up by a machine designed not for the maintenance of virtue, integrity, or honor, but for profit, there is this grand disconnect between the reality of the game and the proposed, marketed ideal. Same thing happens with Fable in essence; there's what Peter Molyneaux says his games are, and there's what his games actually are. The difference between the two does not make these games bad by any means, but they do require the player to take a slightly different tact.
TL;DR
Play Skyward Sword for the game it is, not for the game Nintendo said it was going to be. I predict you won't be sorry. I'm certainly not.
I really don't think Skyward Sword should be singled out because of its controls in the way that it's inevitably going to be, purely because it's a motion control game. I've seen so many games skate by where the controls are only vaguely mentioned despite being uncomfortable or unintuitive. Many older games, people just say "the controls aren't so good" and sort of take it in stride. This isn't the case with motion games, however, because there's still a stigma present with the control method as a whole. Is it because the controls really render the game unplayable, or is it because we expect supernatural accuracy, because we're supposed to be more actively in control with motion? I love traditional controllers, in fact I universally prefer them to motion controls, but I do not expect motion controls to be more accurate in practice than a traditional controller; it's unfair to expect motion controls to "beat" traditional controls, even though that is how motion controls have been marketed.
I wish I could add up and provide a quantified list of every inaccurate jump, mind-bogglingly terrible control layout, or purely accidental input which screwed me up in a game utilizing a control pad. It's something that literally happens in every single game I play. Some games just aren't intuitive or easy to pick up; it takes time and dedication to become comfortable with games like this, to understand what they're going to do when you interact with them. Whether that is through motion controls or traditional gamepads is of no consequence whatsoever, in my experience. You just have to get used to it.
Because Skyward Sword is a motion control game, and because it has been hyped up by a machine designed not for the maintenance of virtue, integrity, or honor, but for profit, there is this grand disconnect between the reality of the game and the proposed, marketed ideal. Same thing happens with Fable in essence; there's what Peter Molyneaux says his games are, and there's what his games actually are. The difference between the two does not make these games bad by any means, but they do require the player to take a slightly different tact.
TL;DR
Play Skyward Sword for the game it is, not for the game Nintendo said it was going to be. I predict you won't be sorry. I'm certainly not.
I think the arguement that motion controls are forced or are at fault for an otherwise great game is stupid. It would be like blaming the guitar peripheral in Rock Band for not being able to play the songs on expert. It's a learning curve and most "hardcore gamers" prefer not to learn or feel dumb using a new control method because they are unwilling to accept a different approach. As for reviews that blame the control scheme, I think its a little unprofessional if it was the fault of the user not taking the time to learn the game. I have been playing it for 5 hours and have already gotten use to the controls, it's a great game.
Dear Nintendo,
Nobody wants two screens. Nobody wants waggle. Hope you get back to making fun games again someday. It's not me, it's you.
Nobody wants two screens. Nobody wants waggle. Hope you get back to making fun games again someday. It's not me, it's you.
Battlefield 3 should have been in third person. We should deduct some points from it and write about how it's flawed.
@kush
I'm only replying because your so obnoxious and gross.
Of course some people aren't comfortable with motion controls. Not a whole lot of people argue against that point. But if someone can't/dosen't want to play Zelda SS because of them, then all I can say is try the game first, and then judge for yourself. Because a lot of the people upset by the motion controls haven't tried them yet.
Now, unless your going to be less offensive, stop trolling.
I'm only replying because your so obnoxious and gross.
Of course some people aren't comfortable with motion controls. Not a whole lot of people argue against that point. But if someone can't/dosen't want to play Zelda SS because of them, then all I can say is try the game first, and then judge for yourself. Because a lot of the people upset by the motion controls haven't tried them yet.
Now, unless your going to be less offensive, stop trolling.
@Shinta
and the ps3 version should have move support and the Xbox version should have kinect support, it's not fair to us motion control gamers having to use a crummy controller
and the ps3 version should have move support and the Xbox version should have kinect support, it's not fair to us motion control gamers having to use a crummy controller
"Though I felt like Skyward Sword was a perfect 10, I thought that the game was too potentially alienating to be considered flawless from a design perspective. To get a 10/10, the game has to give all players everything they could possible want or expect out of a title. The forced motion controls are just enough to keep Skyward Sword from getting there."
What game does that? Great games are typically bold and set their own path. You can't please everyone no matter how hard you try. The point of using motion plus is to put you in the shoes of Link and a classic scheme can't replicate that experience. If you found fault with the game and choose to deduct point accordingly I would understand, but to take off points because some people will want another control scheme is idiotic.
What game does that? Great games are typically bold and set their own path. You can't please everyone no matter how hard you try. The point of using motion plus is to put you in the shoes of Link and a classic scheme can't replicate that experience. If you found fault with the game and choose to deduct point accordingly I would understand, but to take off points because some people will want another control scheme is idiotic.
I love you Holmes, but I'm gonna have to call you out on this one. I agree that a game has to be all things to all people in order to be "perfect." But by your metric, in order to be truly perfect, Skyward Sword would have to support whatever input device any given player was most comfortable with. For example, why can't I play Skyward Sword with a mouse and keyboard? Or a fightstick? Or a racing wheel? I really abhor every nintendo produced wii controller, so why aren't other input methods supported? Better yet, why can't I play this with an Xbox controller?
I also disagree with your assertion that reviewers are often "wrong" when they criticize the implementation of motion controls in Wii games. If a reviewer attempts to play the game and struggles with motion controls, there are only two potential reasons for this: 1) The reviewer is using faulty hardware 2) The motion controls are not implemented well enough to work well for every person who tries to play the game. In the case of the Gamespot review for SS, it was probably scenario #1, but still. Frankly, your assertion here seems to run counter to the main thrust of your article, which is that some players struggle with motion controls and games should accomodate those players.
I also disagree with your assertion that reviewers are often "wrong" when they criticize the implementation of motion controls in Wii games. If a reviewer attempts to play the game and struggles with motion controls, there are only two potential reasons for this: 1) The reviewer is using faulty hardware 2) The motion controls are not implemented well enough to work well for every person who tries to play the game. In the case of the Gamespot review for SS, it was probably scenario #1, but still. Frankly, your assertion here seems to run counter to the main thrust of your article, which is that some players struggle with motion controls and games should accomodate those players.
I've played about 7 hours of Skyward Sword and I've been stumbling a little along the way. Maybe that's the point? With the added level of precision required comes an added level of determination and experience. I can feel myself getting better with each swing and that in itself is rewarding.
If you don't like motion controls, there are literally hundreds of standard games out there. You literally have nothing to complain about.
If you don't like motion controls, there are literally hundreds of standard games out there. You literally have nothing to complain about.
Everybody who bitched about the controls to "A Link to the Past," raise your hands.
Mmm-hmm. Interesting.
Mmm-hmm. Interesting.
I can sympathize with this view, NMH2 had both motion and classic control options, the interesting part being for me that I found I couldn't play it with a conventional pad, I'd learned the motion control scheme so well the inverse seemed alien and weird to me.
@ arttemis
Maybe using the second stick like fight night? Even so, can you really see the game being as good as it is, releasing now instead of next year? Adding a controller option would have been just as tacked on as TP's motion controls were.
@vanor
The act of combat and its conclusion is usually near instantaneous, but only a jackass would charge in without thinking and waiting for an opening or something else to give him an advantage. And from what I've heard, most enemies in SS die quite quickly once you gain that advantage.
There is also a big difference between the active chaos of modern war and a quick melee.
Maybe using the second stick like fight night? Even so, can you really see the game being as good as it is, releasing now instead of next year? Adding a controller option would have been just as tacked on as TP's motion controls were.
@vanor
The act of combat and its conclusion is usually near instantaneous, but only a jackass would charge in without thinking and waiting for an opening or something else to give him an advantage. And from what I've heard, most enemies in SS die quite quickly once you gain that advantage.
There is also a big difference between the active chaos of modern war and a quick melee.
While I agree with parts of this, a motion controlled Skyward Sword is a thousand times more compelling than a non-motion controlled Skyward Sword. Nintendo took a huge risk with using this control scheme, and it really paid off - they created one of the best motion-controlled games of all time. I feel tremendously sorry for anyone who lets the control scheme get in the way of their enjoyment of this game, or any game for that matter.
After reading the comments, re-reading the article and your original points again and doing some more thinking about the matter...I still think you should have given it a 10/10. Sorry homey!
@stopspoilers
You're confusing hate with facts. Holmes made an idiotic assertion and all we're doing is exposing his faulty logic.
You're confusing hate with facts. Holmes made an idiotic assertion and all we're doing is exposing his faulty logic.
@all the motion control haters
Don't you have a Call of Duty or something to play? What are you even doing here?
Don't you have a Call of Duty or something to play? What are you even doing here?
@Vanor
But real-life combat is neither "fun" nor "elegant." If you are playing a videogame, if the combat is "real," it's not going to be enjoyable. Imagine if Street Fighter played like a REAL mixed martial arts competition. All the fights would wind up as grappling on the ground. There's a reason why action films rely on choreography: "real" fights would be too fast, too sloppy, and too unsatisfying.
But real-life combat is neither "fun" nor "elegant." If you are playing a videogame, if the combat is "real," it's not going to be enjoyable. Imagine if Street Fighter played like a REAL mixed martial arts competition. All the fights would wind up as grappling on the ground. There's a reason why action films rely on choreography: "real" fights would be too fast, too sloppy, and too unsatisfying.
@Ronin4life
The difference is that button controls are a generally accepted standard of the industry -- and even more importantly, an accepted facet of a Zelda game -- and motion controls are not.
Furthermore, it seems to me that this game has a certain audience, a legacy audience if you will, that is (relatively) familiar with a button control scheme in the context of a Zelda game and (again, relatively) unfamiliar with this sort of motion control scheme being put in that same context. They sort of risked alienating that audience by mostly eliminating the old way of controlling Link that that audience was used to.
Skyrim did not do that. It didn't take that risk by doing something mental like using Kinect to... I don't know, utilize a Thu'um. How do you penalize a game for not attempting to entice a potential audience? I could make the same argument for Call of Duty not appealing to grannies with a gun-controller-wheelchair. Or a cane-rifle, take your pick.
Now, the question is whether the new control scheme is a positive addition, whether it is worth that possibility of alienation. I don't know the answer to that, but Jonathon seems to think they did pretty well with them. So, I think if the audience gives it a shot, they'll enjoy this new addition to the Zelda series, and its apparently baffling controls.
The difference is that button controls are a generally accepted standard of the industry -- and even more importantly, an accepted facet of a Zelda game -- and motion controls are not.
Furthermore, it seems to me that this game has a certain audience, a legacy audience if you will, that is (relatively) familiar with a button control scheme in the context of a Zelda game and (again, relatively) unfamiliar with this sort of motion control scheme being put in that same context. They sort of risked alienating that audience by mostly eliminating the old way of controlling Link that that audience was used to.
Skyrim did not do that. It didn't take that risk by doing something mental like using Kinect to... I don't know, utilize a Thu'um. How do you penalize a game for not attempting to entice a potential audience? I could make the same argument for Call of Duty not appealing to grannies with a gun-controller-wheelchair. Or a cane-rifle, take your pick.
Now, the question is whether the new control scheme is a positive addition, whether it is worth that possibility of alienation. I don't know the answer to that, but Jonathon seems to think they did pretty well with them. So, I think if the audience gives it a shot, they'll enjoy this new addition to the Zelda series, and its apparently baffling controls.
@Tony Ponce
"And maybe combat is boring for you, but it isn't for me and the other people enjoying the game."
Maybe combat isn't boring for you and other people enjoying the game, but it is for Vanor and other people who aren't enjoying the game.
"And maybe combat is boring for you, but it isn't for me and the other people enjoying the game."
Maybe combat isn't boring for you and other people enjoying the game, but it is for Vanor and other people who aren't enjoying the game.
I haven't played Skyward Sword yet and won't unitl Christmas so I'll refrain from making any judgements on how well the motion control works but I'm incredibly excited about playing it and expect it to be of the highest quality...
The way I see it is Skyward Sword is a game with motion control. End of. If you don't like that then by all means feel free to skip it and move on. But please don't go on about how it should support the classic controller. I can understand the disappointment in not being able to play it the way you would prefer but that's how it is and that's how it'll stay. To be honest I'm disappointed more games don't use motion controls. When I bought Portal 2 I would definitely have loved Move support and would have enjoyed it even more but it didn't. The fact that games like Battlefield and Modern Warfare ship without Move support also disappoints me, so much so that I'm actually planning on getting the Wii version of Modern Warfare 3.
I don't think this "controversy" will have any lasting effect, any more than the "controversy" surrounding the previous few games with Wind Waker's graphical style and Twilight Princess's lack of HD in a HD world. This is the internet, people will complain and more than likely they'll forget about it next week.
I remember when the N64 was released and there were some that complained about not being able to use the D-Pad as that was what they were used to. Then before that people complained about replacing a joystick with a D-Pad. Games move on, some have different control methods. If it's not one you like then your choice is either don't play it or get used to it.
The way I see it is Skyward Sword is a game with motion control. End of. If you don't like that then by all means feel free to skip it and move on. But please don't go on about how it should support the classic controller. I can understand the disappointment in not being able to play it the way you would prefer but that's how it is and that's how it'll stay. To be honest I'm disappointed more games don't use motion controls. When I bought Portal 2 I would definitely have loved Move support and would have enjoyed it even more but it didn't. The fact that games like Battlefield and Modern Warfare ship without Move support also disappoints me, so much so that I'm actually planning on getting the Wii version of Modern Warfare 3.
I don't think this "controversy" will have any lasting effect, any more than the "controversy" surrounding the previous few games with Wind Waker's graphical style and Twilight Princess's lack of HD in a HD world. This is the internet, people will complain and more than likely they'll forget about it next week.
I remember when the N64 was released and there were some that complained about not being able to use the D-Pad as that was what they were used to. Then before that people complained about replacing a joystick with a D-Pad. Games move on, some have different control methods. If it's not one you like then your choice is either don't play it or get used to it.
Lahari-KOTNW: No they are not facts they are opinions. And dont go to "People that hate motion control=People who like bro shooters" You are acting like a ass.
"It seems even stranger that Nintendo would make this call when you consider that the Wii U is potentially less than a year from launch. The upcoming console's main input device is basically a Wii classic controller with a touch screen. Wouldn't it have been great to have the option to play Skyward Sword on that controller, on your own private screen without the shackles of motion controls, while the rest of the family uses the TV for other purposes?"
I hate to sound rude but don't you think that's exactly one of the reasons why Nintendo didn't decide to push the game back to be a sure fire blockbuster launch title for the Wii-U, rather then keep for the waning, people-could-care-less, Wii?
Yeah, sure, it would be terrible to have had a main Zelda game not be released in its 25th anniversary year, but considering the Wii-U's less then stellar reception, and the long wait time we had before Skyward Sword ever got a release date, you have to have a glimmer somewhere deep down that they gave some serious thought about this. Nintendo's made it more then clear that they're taking a massive hit to their profits, so making sure their next console has at least 1 amazing game released with it out of the gate, that would be universally sought out by gamers of all make and model, would have done wonders for that launch.
Reason I expect they didn't? Because the game's almost entirely motion controlled, was meant to be from the time its development started and would have taken away from the main selling point of the Wii-U if they had pushed it back.. Which, in an odd way, is almost exactly the same reason you said Twilight Princess suffered in the beginning of the Skyward Sword Review, Jon, Because Twilight Princess was a Gamecube game forced to be a Wii game.
So.. I can't help but call you out on that no matter how much I'd like to avoid it. You more or less attacked Twilight Princess for it in the opening of your Skyward Sword review, but now your telling us how much you'd like to have seen it done with this game and the Wii-U, when you obviously have an idea about how the game would have suffered with a radical design change. I don't really know what to say about that, honestly.
This game was designed to use Motion controls exclusively because this game was fully meant to be on the Wii and nothing else. The game went into development at least sometime during the last parts of Twilight Princesses development (from what I've heard) and the full intent was to fully utilize what the Wii could do with its motion controls -even if that meant calling attention to how flawed those motion controls can be. It wasn't meant to be elsewhere or use another control scheme, and if anything Nintendo listened to people like you, who complained about Twilight Princess' tacked on motion controls.
So to me, this just proves you can't make everyone happy. Either you like the way this game plays or not, and Nintendo really needs to put their footdown about that. The idea that Nintendo's ingrained in people -which might stem from Twilight Princess' Wii upgrade- that their games need to play even great across all the systems that can play them, in all the varied control styles those systems support, is obviously one they should have never seeded in the first place. Its obvious that its causing them problems, and will only cause more in the future.
(P.S. Skyward Sword might very well not support the tablet at all unless they manage a Wii-U revamp. Nintendo has said Wii-Motes are here to stay, and there's no reason to believe they don't intend you to play a game like this with anything but.)
I hate to sound rude but don't you think that's exactly one of the reasons why Nintendo didn't decide to push the game back to be a sure fire blockbuster launch title for the Wii-U, rather then keep for the waning, people-could-care-less, Wii?
Yeah, sure, it would be terrible to have had a main Zelda game not be released in its 25th anniversary year, but considering the Wii-U's less then stellar reception, and the long wait time we had before Skyward Sword ever got a release date, you have to have a glimmer somewhere deep down that they gave some serious thought about this. Nintendo's made it more then clear that they're taking a massive hit to their profits, so making sure their next console has at least 1 amazing game released with it out of the gate, that would be universally sought out by gamers of all make and model, would have done wonders for that launch.
Reason I expect they didn't? Because the game's almost entirely motion controlled, was meant to be from the time its development started and would have taken away from the main selling point of the Wii-U if they had pushed it back.. Which, in an odd way, is almost exactly the same reason you said Twilight Princess suffered in the beginning of the Skyward Sword Review, Jon, Because Twilight Princess was a Gamecube game forced to be a Wii game.
So.. I can't help but call you out on that no matter how much I'd like to avoid it. You more or less attacked Twilight Princess for it in the opening of your Skyward Sword review, but now your telling us how much you'd like to have seen it done with this game and the Wii-U, when you obviously have an idea about how the game would have suffered with a radical design change. I don't really know what to say about that, honestly.
This game was designed to use Motion controls exclusively because this game was fully meant to be on the Wii and nothing else. The game went into development at least sometime during the last parts of Twilight Princesses development (from what I've heard) and the full intent was to fully utilize what the Wii could do with its motion controls -even if that meant calling attention to how flawed those motion controls can be. It wasn't meant to be elsewhere or use another control scheme, and if anything Nintendo listened to people like you, who complained about Twilight Princess' tacked on motion controls.
So to me, this just proves you can't make everyone happy. Either you like the way this game plays or not, and Nintendo really needs to put their footdown about that. The idea that Nintendo's ingrained in people -which might stem from Twilight Princess' Wii upgrade- that their games need to play even great across all the systems that can play them, in all the varied control styles those systems support, is obviously one they should have never seeded in the first place. Its obvious that its causing them problems, and will only cause more in the future.
(P.S. Skyward Sword might very well not support the tablet at all unless they manage a Wii-U revamp. Nintendo has said Wii-Motes are here to stay, and there's no reason to believe they don't intend you to play a game like this with anything but.)
I'm from the NES era and I disliked motion control games but all the changed after Zelda:Skyward.. Do yourself a favor play this game.. You will not be disappointed....well maybe the graphics.... The graphics is my only complain...should have been HD 1080p:) No the PC emulation version 1080p is not an option:)
I agree that CC Pro compatiblity would have been great for some,but I myself am enjoying the controls very much.Sure,at first I wasn't too crazy about them,but once I got into the groove I wouldn't go back.
And the people that are saying that the controls are "crap" without playing the game are being narrow minded,if you played the game and didn't like them,like Jibberwocky and a few others did,thats fine,not everyone likes the same things,you not liking them is not the issue,it's crapping over something that you never tried that irks me...but then again,we have people like Tom "played the game wrong like a jackass and blamed the controls for not working "McShea...
TL:DR I like the controls,and it's fine if you don't,but please give them a try before you reject them...and Tom McShea is an idiot.
And the people that are saying that the controls are "crap" without playing the game are being narrow minded,if you played the game and didn't like them,like Jibberwocky and a few others did,thats fine,not everyone likes the same things,you not liking them is not the issue,it's crapping over something that you never tried that irks me...but then again,we have people like Tom "played the game wrong like a jackass and blamed the controls for not working "McShea...
TL:DR I like the controls,and it's fine if you don't,but please give them a try before you reject them...and Tom McShea is an idiot.
@Smithy
Care to elaborate? You can't dispute anything I said so instead you tell me to grow up, very sad.
@Stopspoilers
It was a dick thing to say, but its not any worse then any other post on this site.
Care to elaborate? You can't dispute anything I said so instead you tell me to grow up, very sad.
@Stopspoilers
It was a dick thing to say, but its not any worse then any other post on this site.
@kinneas
Some people believe he was playing the game thinking that you use the IR pointer the entire time, and if that is the case, than it really was his fault, as crazy and stupid as saying "your playing it wrong" sounds
@laharl
I don't really see it as an "idiotic assertion". I disagree with some of these points, but even so I don't think they were reached by him in stupidity. That's just mean...
Some people believe he was playing the game thinking that you use the IR pointer the entire time, and if that is the case, than it really was his fault, as crazy and stupid as saying "your playing it wrong" sounds
@laharl
I don't really see it as an "idiotic assertion". I disagree with some of these points, but even so I don't think they were reached by him in stupidity. That's just mean...
You know what? all these people saying "stop being a whiner! you'll play zelda and you will like it!" need to seriously shut the fuck up. I'm 24 and a goddamn bricklayer during my day job. God forbid i want to sit down and relax when i play a game instead of moving my hands and arms around constantly while i'm trying to game. This is not a knock against the wii or motion controls or the new zelda (which does look very nice btw). This is a knock against assholes who can't seem to get it through their heads that some people just do not care for motion controls. I like my wii alright, but i physically cannot play it for long periods of time. I tried playing through the Metroid trilogy and had to keep stopping every hour or so to keep my wrist from throbbing. I can't enjoy playing something when it causes me physical pain. I'd much rather crack open a beer and let my fingers do the walking all over Skyrim, than endure wrist pain after mixing concrete and cement all day.
@Roanin4life
I think Holmes is an intelligent person, but what he said was pretty stupid. Docking off points because someone might want another scheme is stupid. That's like saying I was going to give Arkham City a 10, but my neighbor doesn't like Batman so instead i'll give it a 7. If the controls didn't work well I would understand, but they do. They're very precise, you can't just fling it around and expect it to work correctly.
I think Holmes is an intelligent person, but what he said was pretty stupid. Docking off points because someone might want another scheme is stupid. That's like saying I was going to give Arkham City a 10, but my neighbor doesn't like Batman so instead i'll give it a 7. If the controls didn't work well I would understand, but they do. They're very precise, you can't just fling it around and expect it to work correctly.
I really don't see the alienation argument here. If you have a Wii or you're considering getting one just for Skyward Sword, then the motion controls shouldn't be a problem. You knew what you were getting into when you bought the system. If you want a "standard" Zelda experience, then you have plenty of other games to choose from.
I truly don't think Skyward Sword deserved to not earn the status of a perfect title just because of this alienation business. People complain about the Wii not having enough big motion control games, that most of them were focused on "gimmicks" and "tacked-on motion controls"; well, here is the game you wanted, embrace it.
I truly don't think Skyward Sword deserved to not earn the status of a perfect title just because of this alienation business. People complain about the Wii not having enough big motion control games, that most of them were focused on "gimmicks" and "tacked-on motion controls"; well, here is the game you wanted, embrace it.
@smithy
I wasn't aware that adults weren't allowed to have a sense of humor, my apologies. The controls aren't terrible, you're not doing it right. Just watch the bitblock video or ask anyone who has played it correctly.
I wasn't aware that adults weren't allowed to have a sense of humor, my apologies. The controls aren't terrible, you're not doing it right. Just watch the bitblock video or ask anyone who has played it correctly.
@Smithyx
Ouch that hurts. Also the graphics aren't "shit", that's an opinion, which you're entitled to. Personally I prefer a game with great style over hd graphics.
Ouch that hurts. Also the graphics aren't "shit", that's an opinion, which you're entitled to. Personally I prefer a game with great style over hd graphics.
I will respect your assessment on this topic Chad as it rings some truth in the part that a game that deserves a perfect score. "The game has to give all players everything they could possible want or expect out of a title." Both including casual and hardcore gamers I pressume.
If so, then would it be correct to say that all games we see getting perfect scores (Skyrim) don't deserve the score, since they obviously don't give that accessibility to the opposite audience.
I would like to say Skyward Sword is a perfect game for me. Being able to control the sword in Links hand with 1:1 precision helps me believe I'm actually there holding the sword. This is of course my point of view.
If so, then would it be correct to say that all games we see getting perfect scores (Skyrim) don't deserve the score, since they obviously don't give that accessibility to the opposite audience.
I would like to say Skyward Sword is a perfect game for me. Being able to control the sword in Links hand with 1:1 precision helps me believe I'm actually there holding the sword. This is of course my point of view.
I'm kinda sick of the "If you don't play cool looking indie games or like playing with motion controls you automatically play Call of Duty 24/7 and aren't a real gamer" logic. It's old, stale, and completely WRONG.
That being said, I have a Wii. I never owned Twilight Princess for it, I opted instead for the GC version, which I loved. Why? Because I didn't want to play with half-assed motion controls (they were DEFINITELY tacked on in that game), and I didn't want a mirrored game world because they were to lazy to put the sword in Link's right hand.
Do I like having choice? Certainly. I think everyone does. But if they designed Skyward Sword around the motion controls, than I'm going to play it like that. It's not hard to get used to them, and I can't wait to finally play it.
Until then, I have Call of Du... er, um SKYRIM. I have Skyrim to play. That's what I meant. Swear. ;)
That being said, I have a Wii. I never owned Twilight Princess for it, I opted instead for the GC version, which I loved. Why? Because I didn't want to play with half-assed motion controls (they were DEFINITELY tacked on in that game), and I didn't want a mirrored game world because they were to lazy to put the sword in Link's right hand.
Do I like having choice? Certainly. I think everyone does. But if they designed Skyward Sword around the motion controls, than I'm going to play it like that. It's not hard to get used to them, and I can't wait to finally play it.
Until then, I have Call of Du... er, um SKYRIM. I have Skyrim to play. That's what I meant. Swear. ;)
@Ronin
Thanks for biting. This should prove interesting. First, I'm no troll, whatsoever. So get that thought right out of your head. Oh and get off that horse, it's leaving poo everywhere. Seriously.
I put the whole thing that way to one, make a point regarding all these people who jump to defend Nintendo regardless of what logic is used and two, simply attract attention to a valid point. Sorry if that is not readily apparent.
Also, your point about at least trying it is entirely moot. Most people who denounce motion controls, have by now, tried them at least a few times and decided it's not for them. This is my personal experience and others as well.
Not only that, when you've been playing a SERIES for so long, you get used to it playing a certain way. The basic control scheme has been familiar for quite some time, and the older fans of the series are much more comfortable playing Zelda that way. Enter Skyward Sword and the only option you have is motion control, the premise of attacking certain ways to get by an enemies guard is cool, but still alienates many fans of the series.
Thanks for biting. This should prove interesting. First, I'm no troll, whatsoever. So get that thought right out of your head. Oh and get off that horse, it's leaving poo everywhere. Seriously.
I put the whole thing that way to one, make a point regarding all these people who jump to defend Nintendo regardless of what logic is used and two, simply attract attention to a valid point. Sorry if that is not readily apparent.
Also, your point about at least trying it is entirely moot. Most people who denounce motion controls, have by now, tried them at least a few times and decided it's not for them. This is my personal experience and others as well.
Not only that, when you've been playing a SERIES for so long, you get used to it playing a certain way. The basic control scheme has been familiar for quite some time, and the older fans of the series are much more comfortable playing Zelda that way. Enter Skyward Sword and the only option you have is motion control, the premise of attacking certain ways to get by an enemies guard is cool, but still alienates many fans of the series.
@Ronin4life
Holy shit, did I just convince someone over the internet?
I... I don't know what to say. Thank you? I'm glad you agree.
Holy shit, did I just convince someone over the internet?
I... I don't know what to say. Thank you? I'm glad you agree.
@vanor
"I know a Korean war vet who had to rip a man's jaw off after the man bayoneted him in the stomach."
Holy shit, YES. Lets get that into the next Zelda please.
"I know a Korean war vet who had to rip a man's jaw off after the man bayoneted him in the stomach."
Holy shit, YES. Lets get that into the next Zelda please.
Motion controls are not a bad thing idea. I think players need to stop blindly hating EVERYTHING motion and labeling anything with movement "waggle".
This game take full advantage of it's motion controlled idea and it's far from mere waggling nonsense.
I agree however that it has to be an option and not forced. I don't say this because I'm particularly worried about when developers feel forced to just to shove it in a game that doesn't need it, really. Games that can and do have the option for motion controls SHOULD use it if it'll really work with their gameplay idea.
For example Bit.Trip Beat uses the tilt function in a way that really works and executes smoothly. Games like De Blob, didn't really need it forced as it was wonky some of the time. Although De Blob is still an excellent game the choice for motion controls to move Blob was a forced decision based on a trend.
The idea HAS to work for the gameplay/control. If it doesn't than it sure doesn't need to be forced either.
And options as you said are fine. I think had games like Donkey Kong Country and NSMBW, etc had the option, the couple of folks who complained would be at least pleased.
This game take full advantage of it's motion controlled idea and it's far from mere waggling nonsense.
I agree however that it has to be an option and not forced. I don't say this because I'm particularly worried about when developers feel forced to just to shove it in a game that doesn't need it, really. Games that can and do have the option for motion controls SHOULD use it if it'll really work with their gameplay idea.
For example Bit.Trip Beat uses the tilt function in a way that really works and executes smoothly. Games like De Blob, didn't really need it forced as it was wonky some of the time. Although De Blob is still an excellent game the choice for motion controls to move Blob was a forced decision based on a trend.
The idea HAS to work for the gameplay/control. If it doesn't than it sure doesn't need to be forced either.
And options as you said are fine. I think had games like Donkey Kong Country and NSMBW, etc had the option, the couple of folks who complained would be at least pleased.
Guys, a "perfect score" doesn't mean "the game is flawless".
A "perfect score" is just the term used for games that earn all 10 points on the scale. The 10/10 is awarded because the reviewer feels that the game is magnificent, and any flaws he had were minor and forgettable in the big picture. While there is no such thing as a "perfect game" there is such a thing as "perfect score" and some games have rightfully earned it on Destructoid. Personally, I feel that Holmes secretly wanted to give Skyward Sword a perfect score because that's how much he personally enjoyed the game, but for some reason he held back because of what other people might think.
A "perfect score" is just the term used for games that earn all 10 points on the scale. The 10/10 is awarded because the reviewer feels that the game is magnificent, and any flaws he had were minor and forgettable in the big picture. While there is no such thing as a "perfect game" there is such a thing as "perfect score" and some games have rightfully earned it on Destructoid. Personally, I feel that Holmes secretly wanted to give Skyward Sword a perfect score because that's how much he personally enjoyed the game, but for some reason he held back because of what other people might think.
@Smithyx
Perhaps you shouldn't state it as fact then. In fact I'm working on my bachelors in forensic science.
@Vancealmighty
Skyrim is terrible you can't use a Gamecube controller, so I have to give it a seven. Logic!
Perhaps you shouldn't state it as fact then. In fact I'm working on my bachelors in forensic science.
@Vancealmighty
Skyrim is terrible you can't use a Gamecube controller, so I have to give it a seven. Logic!
@Laharl-KOTNW: Skyrim IS terrible. It's not co-op, and I only like games that I can play with my buddies. What is more casual than co-op? How can any game that is so biased against social interaction earn a perfect score?
At the very least, it should have given me the choice. Not to mention, the game doesn't have ANY guns in it. Why not give me the choice? What is more casual and mainstream than guns?
At the very least, it should have given me the choice. Not to mention, the game doesn't have ANY guns in it. Why not give me the choice? What is more casual and mainstream than guns?
I'm just not seeing how traditional controls would even be functional here. They might have been on the books originally, but that doesn't exactly mean the game design was cemented prior to Motion Plus. There's the over/under elements for combat and bomb toss/rolling that I just don't see as possible with standard controls.
In fact, based on the Iwata Asks interviews long ago, they went back and forth on the idea until Wii Sports Resort was made. That was what cemented the controls for Skyward Sword.
The "reflection" and "awareness" arguments strike me as pretty weak. Anyone that claims to veg out to games, I hate to say it but you are a liar. I have to be aware of what I'm doing in UMVC3 or I get beaten senseless, as is the case with any fighting game. I have to be aware of what I do in Dark Souls or I'm going to die and lose souls. You are ALWAYS aware of the controls in a game just you are always of a gas pedal, brakes and steering wheel when you drive.
The problem with people regarding motion controls is often the hilarious extremes they go to to execute them. I don't know why people have to stand up to play Skyward Sword or why they flail so hard. I'm sitting in a recliner and playing this with mostly just subtle movement. Its more wrist movement than arm.
In fact, I'd argue I'm more aggressive with a standard pad for some game. It's not Skyward Sword wearing me out from repetitive movement, its UMVC3. So many precise, fast movements either in a smaller space blistering or wearing down the thumbs. It would be worse with a joystick, as other games and time in the arcades has proven.
In fact, based on the Iwata Asks interviews long ago, they went back and forth on the idea until Wii Sports Resort was made. That was what cemented the controls for Skyward Sword.
The "reflection" and "awareness" arguments strike me as pretty weak. Anyone that claims to veg out to games, I hate to say it but you are a liar. I have to be aware of what I'm doing in UMVC3 or I get beaten senseless, as is the case with any fighting game. I have to be aware of what I do in Dark Souls or I'm going to die and lose souls. You are ALWAYS aware of the controls in a game just you are always of a gas pedal, brakes and steering wheel when you drive.
The problem with people regarding motion controls is often the hilarious extremes they go to to execute them. I don't know why people have to stand up to play Skyward Sword or why they flail so hard. I'm sitting in a recliner and playing this with mostly just subtle movement. Its more wrist movement than arm.
In fact, I'd argue I'm more aggressive with a standard pad for some game. It's not Skyward Sword wearing me out from repetitive movement, its UMVC3. So many precise, fast movements either in a smaller space blistering or wearing down the thumbs. It would be worse with a joystick, as other games and time in the arcades has proven.
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