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I also don't understand the irrational hated of the way-too-long coming cyborg ninja spin off in the Metal Gear universe.
I see his point. I mean people get bitchy when a game dose nothing new. but when a franchise does a spin off and doing something different like this, it turns into a shitstorm. as some one who was stupid enough to buy the silent hill hd collection. Im still looking forward to this game. if jim has some on hands on a game and liked it. I believe it.
@Arttemis
Preach it. Anyone surprised by a game with the words "Metal Gear" in the title having crazy cyborg ninja flip-out action is fucked in the head. You just play it this time!
Preach it. Anyone surprised by a game with the words "Metal Gear" in the title having crazy cyborg ninja flip-out action is fucked in the head. You just play it this time!
The fans are RIDICULOUS of SH's facebook page. They're almost as bad as Sonic fans. Why the feck would they CANCEL the game you retards?
I'm going to be real here, and state I hated everyone of those spin-offs. My RPG's do not need to be turned into fighting genre button mashing crap. As for this spin on "Silent Hill"? All I'll say is trying something new is not bad, but it has to fit the series itself and mesh well with the roots of what you had and have established. Fighting game spin offs? Fuck no... DLC in my "Final Fantasy"? Fuck that too, and the morons who got on their knees and blindly bought it and defended it.
I do not mind "new" innovation in my games, but atleast attempt and try to be real about it. Sometimes I get the feeling all you did was play a game of darts and whatever you hit was what you implemented into said game. No thought or effort at all.
I do not mind "new" innovation in my games, but atleast attempt and try to be real about it. Sometimes I get the feeling all you did was play a game of darts and whatever you hit was what you implemented into said game. No thought or effort at all.
I think it all has to do with fame bases. From what I can tell, persona arena is going over well. This And DmC seem to be the ones where the fans throw hissy fits.
Tom's a really cool guy, he must be pretty annoyed to go out and do something like this. Hell, I don't blame him, I'm getting annoyed of all these hateful comments too. And it's not even the entire Silent Hill fanbase, they are a lot of big Silent Hill fansites that are really supporting this game.
He may spout complete BS and I can't say I'm a fan of him after that "The Real Silent Hill Experience" review of the HD Collection, but the man does indeed have a point here.
I just hope for another really freaking good core title. I saw a Let's Play of Downpour and countless reviews, so I probably shouldn't say I know for sure, but it doesn't seem too great at all. And I started playing Homecoming a month ago and what I've played is surprisingly good. Especially love the heavy, good storytelling.
In the meantime, I still haven't played SL2 or 3. I've only played a good deal of Shattered Memories, Homecoming and 1 and then a teency bit of The Room back in the day.
I just hope for another really freaking good core title. I saw a Let's Play of Downpour and countless reviews, so I probably shouldn't say I know for sure, but it doesn't seem too great at all. And I started playing Homecoming a month ago and what I've played is surprisingly good. Especially love the heavy, good storytelling.
In the meantime, I still haven't played SL2 or 3. I've only played a good deal of Shattered Memories, Homecoming and 1 and then a teency bit of The Room back in the day.
As someone who hasn't played a SH game yet (but I plan on it) I can't give a real opinion on Book of Memories, but I think attacking your fan base is a bad idea. Sometimes spin offs are good, sometimes they're bad I don't think people are upset that there's a SH spin off it's that they don't like the direction. I don't think comparing it to these games are fair.
Dissidia is fan service that supposedly pays alot of attention to detail (I haven't played it though so I can't confirm that), having characters fight is sort of like a homage. Fans have always enjoyed pondering "who would win in a fight between _____ & _____". Persona 4 Arena goes for a similar thing. TheatRhythm is a music game, and FF has always been known for it's music. With the live concerts and CD compilations a FF Rhythm game is a natural fit.
Now I don't think fans should entirely discredit this game, but it's not difficult to see why. RPGS translate better to spin offs, horror games are more difficult because building a tense scary atmosphere is difficult to translate to other genres.
Dissidia is fan service that supposedly pays alot of attention to detail (I haven't played it though so I can't confirm that), having characters fight is sort of like a homage. Fans have always enjoyed pondering "who would win in a fight between _____ & _____". Persona 4 Arena goes for a similar thing. TheatRhythm is a music game, and FF has always been known for it's music. With the live concerts and CD compilations a FF Rhythm game is a natural fit.
Now I don't think fans should entirely discredit this game, but it's not difficult to see why. RPGS translate better to spin offs, horror games are more difficult because building a tense scary atmosphere is difficult to translate to other genres.
@Ardent Snow
To be fair, DmC's not really a spin-off. It's another take on the franchise just like Marvel's Ultimate comic line. Devil May Cry fans are mad because they think it will replace the "real" franchise for future installments.
To be fair, DmC's not really a spin-off. It's another take on the franchise just like Marvel's Ultimate comic line. Devil May Cry fans are mad because they think it will replace the "real" franchise for future installments.
@SeymourDuncan17,
You'll more then likely fall in love with Silent Hill2, and Silent Hill: The Room. I had it for the Xbox back in the day. Still one of the ultimate experiences in horror. The music was subperb too. Infact I still have the main song -- Room of Angel -- which is just so dark, and deep. Those lyrics though just evoke emotion. Ha-ha.
Personally many people have never tried it, but I reccomend you trying to get a copy of Siren, and Siren:Blood Curse. Both are great games.
You'll more then likely fall in love with Silent Hill2, and Silent Hill: The Room. I had it for the Xbox back in the day. Still one of the ultimate experiences in horror. The music was subperb too. Infact I still have the main song -- Room of Angel -- which is just so dark, and deep. Those lyrics though just evoke emotion. Ha-ha.
Personally many people have never tried it, but I reccomend you trying to get a copy of Siren, and Siren:Blood Curse. Both are great games.
I have no problem with this game being made. I'm actually hoping it will help bolster some interest on the Vita.
@Arttemis
My how times change. When VR Missions was out, all fans could do was swear up and down at the TV that "ONLY THREE LEVELS WTF" were included with a playable Gray Fox.
Now that we're essentially getting a Gray Fox game, people are pissed.
@Arttemis
My how times change. When VR Missions was out, all fans could do was swear up and down at the TV that "ONLY THREE LEVELS WTF" were included with a playable Gray Fox.
Now that we're essentially getting a Gray Fox game, people are pissed.
I think it would be hilarious if they just changed the name of the game at the last second to like Quiet Mountain: A Silent Hill Spin-Off. I think all problems would cease to exist then.
I refuse to acknowledge people who hate on Book of Memories as "Silent Hill fans". I think of them as Silent Hill cult followers.
Seriously, I can understand skepticism towards anything Konami labels as Silent Hill, but I can't understand that people want to blame somebody for Silent Hill no longer being good. The reason Silent Hill sucks is because the incredibly talented people who created the series got tired of making Silent Hill and left. That should have been the end of the discussion.
Seriously, I can understand skepticism towards anything Konami labels as Silent Hill, but I can't understand that people want to blame somebody for Silent Hill no longer being good. The reason Silent Hill sucks is because the incredibly talented people who created the series got tired of making Silent Hill and left. That should have been the end of the discussion.
That's fucking awesome. I have this shit preordered, because I could use a good portable dungeon crawler and fucking wayforward. The setting is just a plus.
I'd rather have a spinoff series with good gameplay in its genre than more terrible main entry games.
the thing is that those spin offs are actually more closer to it's lore.
Dissidia would definitely fit since it showed you a dream match between characters from the FF universe. the gameplay, the flare, and the system mash perfectly.
Persona 4 Arena is a no brainer, persona is already about battling shadows so there is a lot of fighting. heck i think Arena is just the Anime version, but let's you control the characters.
Metal Gear Rising too makes sense, since well, just look at Raiden in the cutscenes. of course it'll look like that in gameplay(but i still prefer the old concept of Rising)
this??? seriously a dungeon crawler SH game???
SH games are not about killing monsters, it's about surviving the hellish nightmare. i don't remember anything about killing all the monsters as many as possible. they didn't show any hint on the lore watsoever.
"Look around, Silent Hill fans. It really is just you."
seriously?? so what's this game for??? if it's not for the fans then what it is??
i don't like this guy one bit. he's pretty much like Tameem Antoniades, who thinks he knows the series much better than the fans.
i don't send any hate mail or curse him out one bit, i think it's silly to waste time on someone like him.
in any case i'll wait some more in-depth gameplay videos and reviews.
can't wait to see how this and DMC will fare out :P
Dissidia would definitely fit since it showed you a dream match between characters from the FF universe. the gameplay, the flare, and the system mash perfectly.
Persona 4 Arena is a no brainer, persona is already about battling shadows so there is a lot of fighting. heck i think Arena is just the Anime version, but let's you control the characters.
Metal Gear Rising too makes sense, since well, just look at Raiden in the cutscenes. of course it'll look like that in gameplay(but i still prefer the old concept of Rising)
this??? seriously a dungeon crawler SH game???
SH games are not about killing monsters, it's about surviving the hellish nightmare. i don't remember anything about killing all the monsters as many as possible. they didn't show any hint on the lore watsoever.
"Look around, Silent Hill fans. It really is just you."
seriously?? so what's this game for??? if it's not for the fans then what it is??
i don't like this guy one bit. he's pretty much like Tameem Antoniades, who thinks he knows the series much better than the fans.
i don't send any hate mail or curse him out one bit, i think it's silly to waste time on someone like him.
in any case i'll wait some more in-depth gameplay videos and reviews.
can't wait to see how this and DMC will fare out :P
As someone who has yet to play any of the Silent Hill franchise (was going to pick up the HD collection but backed out after consensus that it was an under-cooked dollop of horse cum), what exactly is it that has got the fanbase's knickers in a twist?
Gauntlet Hill
As a fan of the series, I'm sure there's enough in this for me to at least enjoy the references to the other games. It doesn't change the fact that I'd like to see the series return to form someday.
As a fan of the series, I'm sure there's enough in this for me to at least enjoy the references to the other games. It doesn't change the fact that I'd like to see the series return to form someday.
Because apparently EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is frustrated with the new direction of Silent Hill and the mediocrity of most of the recent titles is "afflicted by an irrationally emotional hatred", and ONLY the Silent Hill fanbase has EVER had that reaction. I'm not paraphrasing. You JUST said those things verbatim, and then backtrack at the end, contradicting what you've actually said to try and sound rational and reasonable.
Way to generalize, Jim. Great job.
Way to generalize, Jim. Great job.
I don't think that it would be a big issue if the "main" Silent Hill games didn't suck as much as they have over the past three or four games (excluding the excellent Shattered Memories.)
I haven't gotten immensely deep into the Silent Hill series, but I personally don't think it needs to have spin-offs.
Still if the chimps at Konami want to make a spin-off, well I can't stop them. Still it's been 9 years since the last "pure" Silent Hill has been released. I can understand some of the more "hardcore" fans feeling slapped when this is released instead of the successor of Silent Hill 2.
Sure you could say you could just play Silent Hill 2, but some of these fans just want a game that FEELS like Silent Hill 2. They want to experience the same things first time they played Silent Hill 2.
Others think this game marks a complete revamp of the series, and the prospect of supporting something for ages and changing dramatically is scary for some. This motivates fans to backlash against this game and DmC, I mean has Konami announced silent hill 9 with elements from the other games? has Capcom announced Devil May Cry 5, returning to the stories of the other games?
At least Final Fantasy Fans and Persona fans know they have new sequels in some years.
tl;dr people are scared this is what the franchise will become.
Still if the chimps at Konami want to make a spin-off, well I can't stop them. Still it's been 9 years since the last "pure" Silent Hill has been released. I can understand some of the more "hardcore" fans feeling slapped when this is released instead of the successor of Silent Hill 2.
Sure you could say you could just play Silent Hill 2, but some of these fans just want a game that FEELS like Silent Hill 2. They want to experience the same things first time they played Silent Hill 2.
Others think this game marks a complete revamp of the series, and the prospect of supporting something for ages and changing dramatically is scary for some. This motivates fans to backlash against this game and DmC, I mean has Konami announced silent hill 9 with elements from the other games? has Capcom announced Devil May Cry 5, returning to the stories of the other games?
At least Final Fantasy Fans and Persona fans know they have new sequels in some years.
tl;dr people are scared this is what the franchise will become.
I hate change and everything it involves. Change is bad.
This is the motto for most humans. We're a stupid and pathetic race and even the most trivial change scares, confuses and angers us.
This is the motto for most humans. We're a stupid and pathetic race and even the most trivial change scares, confuses and angers us.
I didn't hear anyone complain when Resident Evil 4 came out and it was a complete change in the gameplay ideas the previous games exemplified (maybe there was some but the OVERWHELMING majority loved it). Where was the outrage then? I'm pretty sure 90% of the RE fanbase still considers it the best "RE" game even though it was that game that completely changed the focus of the series and it was a main entry.
IT'S A SPINOFF. Dissidia makes NO SENSE in regards to Final Fantasy games. Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! gameplay does NOT MAKE SENSE to Final Fantasy gameplay. MGS games have always been about stealth-like elements and exploring a gameworld through them. The lore is irrelevant compared to GAMEPLAY MECHANICS in GAMES. What the games do through their mechanics define what the game is. The setting is just window dressing. How the hell does Fortune Street fit into ANYTHING the original Mario and Dragon Quest titles did?
Here's the deal: WE ARE PISSED WE CAN'T GET AN AMAZING SILENT HILL GAME ANYMORE SO THE INTERWEBS ARE ACTING ALL BUTTHURT THAT THE BEST SILENT HILL GAME IN YEARS IS GOING TO BE A DUNGEON CRAWLER.
There we go.
IT'S A SPINOFF. Dissidia makes NO SENSE in regards to Final Fantasy games. Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! gameplay does NOT MAKE SENSE to Final Fantasy gameplay. MGS games have always been about stealth-like elements and exploring a gameworld through them. The lore is irrelevant compared to GAMEPLAY MECHANICS in GAMES. What the games do through their mechanics define what the game is. The setting is just window dressing. How the hell does Fortune Street fit into ANYTHING the original Mario and Dragon Quest titles did?
Here's the deal: WE ARE PISSED WE CAN'T GET AN AMAZING SILENT HILL GAME ANYMORE SO THE INTERWEBS ARE ACTING ALL BUTTHURT THAT THE BEST SILENT HILL GAME IN YEARS IS GOING TO BE A DUNGEON CRAWLER.
There we go.
@Philosophy
I've seen plenty of complaints lobbied after Resident Evil 4. That it's too shooty or there's a lot of ammo. I am guessing most of the complaints are people pissed off since Silent Hill 4 came out a long time ago.
I would be pissed off if Mario and Dragon Quest just said fuck it and only made Fortune Street 1 to 10 and stopped making Mario Galaxies and Mario Karts. Or that Fortune Street 5 was the best Mario game in 7 years.
I've seen plenty of complaints lobbied after Resident Evil 4. That it's too shooty or there's a lot of ammo. I am guessing most of the complaints are people pissed off since Silent Hill 4 came out a long time ago.
I would be pissed off if Mario and Dragon Quest just said fuck it and only made Fortune Street 1 to 10 and stopped making Mario Galaxies and Mario Karts. Or that Fortune Street 5 was the best Mario game in 7 years.
First off, I don't feel strongly either way. I'm not a fan of dungeon crawlers like "Book of Memories" appears to be, but I love WayForward so I'm sure it will be a good one for those who do like those games.
Still, I think to understand why there's so much outrage against this game it's important to look at the circumstances around it as opposed to the examples of spin-offs not targeted with so much hate.
Final Fantasy, Persona, et all are, compared to Silent Hill, strong, thriving franchises where the fanbase is seeing the games that brought them to those franchises continuing in the manner which made their respective fanbases to begin with. There's a new console FF RPG right around the corner. Persona continues along with other Shin Megami Tensei RPG spin-offs like Devil Survivor.
Silent Hill hasn't seen a decent main series game in arguably 10 years or more. Since then it's been disappointment after disappointment for fans. Just look at how poorly Konami handled the HD collection!
Regardless of what mainline Final Fantasy fans might think of Theatrhythm, or how Persona RPG fans might feel about a Persona fighting game, THEY'RE STILL GETTING THEIR MAIN LINE GAMES. SH fans are not, and they're pissed.
So along comes "Book of Memories" and it takes the brunt of their frustration.
It's not fair to WayForward, sure. Not saying it is. Just trying to maybe shed some light on why the game is getting battered with angry fan internet vitrol the way it is.
If Silent Hill 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 had all come out as fantastic games, the HD collection had been a fantastic remake of the first three games with all new graphics, improved gameplay and awesome special features, and SH fans were eagerly awaiting what was coming in store for them next..."Book of Memories" would be enjoying the same nonchalant pass all those other franchise spin-offs are getting. A few disdainful comments from uninterested SH fans, but otherwise...whatever!
Again, I'm not trying to excuse the fan vitrol. Just explain why "Book of Memories" has stirred up so much of it.
Still, I think to understand why there's so much outrage against this game it's important to look at the circumstances around it as opposed to the examples of spin-offs not targeted with so much hate.
Final Fantasy, Persona, et all are, compared to Silent Hill, strong, thriving franchises where the fanbase is seeing the games that brought them to those franchises continuing in the manner which made their respective fanbases to begin with. There's a new console FF RPG right around the corner. Persona continues along with other Shin Megami Tensei RPG spin-offs like Devil Survivor.
Silent Hill hasn't seen a decent main series game in arguably 10 years or more. Since then it's been disappointment after disappointment for fans. Just look at how poorly Konami handled the HD collection!
Regardless of what mainline Final Fantasy fans might think of Theatrhythm, or how Persona RPG fans might feel about a Persona fighting game, THEY'RE STILL GETTING THEIR MAIN LINE GAMES. SH fans are not, and they're pissed.
So along comes "Book of Memories" and it takes the brunt of their frustration.
It's not fair to WayForward, sure. Not saying it is. Just trying to maybe shed some light on why the game is getting battered with angry fan internet vitrol the way it is.
If Silent Hill 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 had all come out as fantastic games, the HD collection had been a fantastic remake of the first three games with all new graphics, improved gameplay and awesome special features, and SH fans were eagerly awaiting what was coming in store for them next..."Book of Memories" would be enjoying the same nonchalant pass all those other franchise spin-offs are getting. A few disdainful comments from uninterested SH fans, but otherwise...whatever!
Again, I'm not trying to excuse the fan vitrol. Just explain why "Book of Memories" has stirred up so much of it.
This SH spin-off looks good, and thats all that matters when it comes to games. Im not even a fan of the series, but this has my interest because it doesn't seem stilted by a certain design it needs to have to make fanboys happy.
@Pennywise
Well you said what I wanted to say but better. I also think the game looks "OK". It's just that Konami is going to release at the worst time possible, which is after the failure of the HD collection which left plenty of people burnt and angry.
Capcom did the same thing with Bad Box Art Megaman, who was announced after the cancellation of 2 Megaman games.
The most constructive thing angry fans should do is to plead for a new "Silent Hill 2" type game in the most respectful manner possible.
Well you said what I wanted to say but better. I also think the game looks "OK". It's just that Konami is going to release at the worst time possible, which is after the failure of the HD collection which left plenty of people burnt and angry.
Capcom did the same thing with Bad Box Art Megaman, who was announced after the cancellation of 2 Megaman games.
The most constructive thing angry fans should do is to plead for a new "Silent Hill 2" type game in the most respectful manner possible.
"Man's got a point."
Man totally does, but it doesn't mean their thoughts are any less right or wrong, regardless. Like I keep saying, actually get the game into peoples hands, instead of having it pushed back over and over, and prove it to them.
Also, Fugly maybe right: What these people may not be saying is that the series needs a real solid main installment again, before it can run off and play in other areas. Downpour probably wasn't quite that for those people (I have a hard time saying it is, myself.)
Man totally does, but it doesn't mean their thoughts are any less right or wrong, regardless. Like I keep saying, actually get the game into peoples hands, instead of having it pushed back over and over, and prove it to them.
Also, Fugly maybe right: What these people may not be saying is that the series needs a real solid main installment again, before it can run off and play in other areas. Downpour probably wasn't quite that for those people (I have a hard time saying it is, myself.)
Can't make straight sequels, can't make spinoffs... at this point developers should just tell fans to fuck off and stop making games all together.
Here's the problem. It's not the fact that the spin-off exists. Silent Hill fans didn't throw a fit when there was an ARCADE shooter around.
The problem is that these spin-offs exist... and there's no truly great MAIN game (though Downpour is the best the series has been since SH3). If there were consistently high-quality main console releases, nobody would really care as much.
But there's not. Silent Hill has been in trouble for awhile now, and a quirky spin-off existing while the main series is stumbling isn't ideal.
It's like how fans can overlook games like Resident Evil: Survivor or Dead Aim since the main series was still going strong, and why Zelda fans don't hate Link's Crossbow Training or Tetra's Trackers so long as the main brand is doing well.
But imagine, say, Capcom announced a crappy iOS spin-off for a new Mega Man game while their core franchises get cancelled or get screwed up over the past several years? Oh yeah... that's HAPPENING. And fans are right to be upset.
I view this in the same way as that. The game may be fun, and it IS a spin-off... but it's not what the fans want. The core games have been struggling to match the level of quality the first three games had, and instead Silent Hill fans have been given nearly a half-dozen crappy games and ports instead of new games that break new ground and push the franchise forward.
So, comparing Silent Hill: Book of Memories to Final Fantasy and Persona spin-offs (which are also colorful RPGs) that are still doing fairly well (despite FF13's efforts to the contrary) don't prove anything. In fact, I'd wager that both of those games are a celebration of Final Fantasy's characters and music, and Persona 4's beloved cast as well... What is Book of Memories celebrating? Pyramid Head?
The problem is that these spin-offs exist... and there's no truly great MAIN game (though Downpour is the best the series has been since SH3). If there were consistently high-quality main console releases, nobody would really care as much.
But there's not. Silent Hill has been in trouble for awhile now, and a quirky spin-off existing while the main series is stumbling isn't ideal.
It's like how fans can overlook games like Resident Evil: Survivor or Dead Aim since the main series was still going strong, and why Zelda fans don't hate Link's Crossbow Training or Tetra's Trackers so long as the main brand is doing well.
But imagine, say, Capcom announced a crappy iOS spin-off for a new Mega Man game while their core franchises get cancelled or get screwed up over the past several years? Oh yeah... that's HAPPENING. And fans are right to be upset.
I view this in the same way as that. The game may be fun, and it IS a spin-off... but it's not what the fans want. The core games have been struggling to match the level of quality the first three games had, and instead Silent Hill fans have been given nearly a half-dozen crappy games and ports instead of new games that break new ground and push the franchise forward.
So, comparing Silent Hill: Book of Memories to Final Fantasy and Persona spin-offs (which are also colorful RPGs) that are still doing fairly well (despite FF13's efforts to the contrary) don't prove anything. In fact, I'd wager that both of those games are a celebration of Final Fantasy's characters and music, and Persona 4's beloved cast as well... What is Book of Memories celebrating? Pyramid Head?
I haven't been following the situation much, but why are they shitting on a game that hasn't come out yet that's being made by WayFoward? This is motherfucking WayForward! Makers of Mighty Switch Force, Shantae, and Aliens: Infestation. Have a little faith in them would ya?
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