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@ TheJesusNinja: The reason you oppose gay marriage is because no life comes from it? Surely that mean you are against homosexuality itself. Married for not, gay people aren't going to procreate.
if you think about the reverse of this argument it sounds completely ridiculous, i.e i hate teh gayz im am going to buy 3 copies of Shadow Complex
One of the most memorably dismaying things every to happen to me in everyday life was when I read the whole of OSC's book, Ender's Game in one night, finishing at 6am. I loved that book and after a well-earned sleep I went to find out more about the author who wrote it - I had done so with Asimov and found the chap to be just as good as I imagined him. So I was so disappointed when I found out about his frankly offensive views.
In the interview I read that day, he asserted that all gay people are fundamentally unhappy. I could have punched him in the face were he there - but maybe that's because I'm so unhappy, of course.
It is, as has been pointed out, -possible- to seperate artwork from artist, but I don't think that it's something we necessarily have any obligation to do. In the case of OSC anything that involves him has, for me, forever been tarnished. Now every time that I enjoy the insult sword fighting in Secret of Monkey Island I remember they were written by this guy, and yes, when I play Shadow Complex there is a nagging thought in the back of my mind that he is in some way involved.
Does that mean I boycott them? No - I personally don't go that far, though I wouldn't blame someone for completely shunning any project that puts money into his pocket. But in an ideal world I'd like him to stay as far away from the stuff I enjoy as possible because really I want nothing to do with the man.
In the interview I read that day, he asserted that all gay people are fundamentally unhappy. I could have punched him in the face were he there - but maybe that's because I'm so unhappy, of course.
It is, as has been pointed out, -possible- to seperate artwork from artist, but I don't think that it's something we necessarily have any obligation to do. In the case of OSC anything that involves him has, for me, forever been tarnished. Now every time that I enjoy the insult sword fighting in Secret of Monkey Island I remember they were written by this guy, and yes, when I play Shadow Complex there is a nagging thought in the back of my mind that he is in some way involved.
Does that mean I boycott them? No - I personally don't go that far, though I wouldn't blame someone for completely shunning any project that puts money into his pocket. But in an ideal world I'd like him to stay as far away from the stuff I enjoy as possible because really I want nothing to do with the man.
Perhaps people freaking out about this controversy is why my Empire book has been held by the publisher, or backordered if you will. See, when I hear any medium is based on, prequel to, or a sequel from a book, I instantly become very curious about it. I have no opinions about Orson Scott Cards views on gays (though, with so many books about little boys...) I was just curious about the story line. I do not think we should boycott the game itself, or the book - simply challenge the author, or our own ideas about the subject.
Things like this make people think about themselves,temporarily become REAL introverts not just the smelly kind that don't know how to socialize - and I think we fear that more than anything else. I still look forward to finishing the game, and reading Empire - because I simply have to see for myself.
Boycotting the game will not make the issue go away. Challenge Orson Scott Card in your blogs, prove him wrong - that's the best thing you can do for yourself.
Things like this make people think about themselves,temporarily become REAL introverts not just the smelly kind that don't know how to socialize - and I think we fear that more than anything else. I still look forward to finishing the game, and reading Empire - because I simply have to see for myself.
Boycotting the game will not make the issue go away. Challenge Orson Scott Card in your blogs, prove him wrong - that's the best thing you can do for yourself.
@ShadokatRegn - It's not about making the game or the issue go away, it's a personal choice about whether you want to put any of your money in the guy's pocket and I can see why many people wouldn't want to.
If games like Shadow Complex spring from bigots, then forget this small fry loser. I want a dev team formed of KKK and BNP members, headed by the ghost of Jesse Helms and housed in Germany to work on the next Call of Duty game. Imagine the possibilities!!
I agree with article, minus the "I don't blame anybody for having reservations about buying this game if it indirectly benefits a man like Card" part.
Sorry, but anyone who would boycott the game for such reasons is a person whose utter stupidity far surpasses Card's. If the game was pushing an agenda, then fine. But it's not. These people are fully deserving of our scorn and ridicule, and I sincerely hope they get a generous dose of it.
Sorry, but anyone who would boycott the game for such reasons is a person whose utter stupidity far surpasses Card's. If the game was pushing an agenda, then fine. But it's not. These people are fully deserving of our scorn and ridicule, and I sincerely hope they get a generous dose of it.
Well if Shadow Complex is boycotted based on sexuality views of the game creator, why should the developing team be penalized based on Orton's Scotts perspective? Just my 2 cents.
If this is the kind of game bigotry produces, forget this small fry. I want a dev team composed of KKK and BNP members, headed by the ghost of Jesse Helms and housed in Germany to work on the next Call of Duty game. Think of the possibilities!!
As far as I'm concerned, the best thing we can do is buy the hell out of this game, play the hell out of it and secure Orson Scott Card a future of writing video game spinoff novels.
Can you think of a worse fate for a once-respected author? No one cares about his recent work, so he's now a writer-for-hire. Quite a step back for the creator of Ender's Game.
Can you think of a worse fate for a once-respected author? No one cares about his recent work, so he's now a writer-for-hire. Quite a step back for the creator of Ender's Game.
I personally don't believe in boycotting anything unless the individual in question is profiting off of a captital or violent crime.
However, people can believe what the fuck they want to: if they want to boycott it, power to them.
I never got all the L4D2/SCII boycott hate. Sure, I don't agree with it, but let them have their opinions.
However, people can believe what the fuck they want to: if they want to boycott it, power to them.
I never got all the L4D2/SCII boycott hate. Sure, I don't agree with it, but let them have their opinions.
I've known Orson Scott Card for thirty-plus years and have even written a book with him. In no way, shape, or form is he a homophobe.
Why is it that this country affords freedom of speech only to liberals? If people don't agree with the liberal agenda, they become pariahs. People, it is possible to be against gay marriage without being a homophobe. Open your eyes and see what's going on in this country! Sheesh.
Why is it that this country affords freedom of speech only to liberals? If people don't agree with the liberal agenda, they become pariahs. People, it is possible to be against gay marriage without being a homophobe. Open your eyes and see what's going on in this country! Sheesh.
TheJesusNinja, ok, well.. I really don't know how you got "gays aren't people" out my comment.
Marriage IS a right since it is a form of expression, an expression of love between two people. I would not deny the rights to people who I love, or to any other person for that matter. Why do you, the church or the state get to choose who gets to express their love and then on what terms?
Your statements were self contradicting, in that you said you had gay friends you loved yet, you didn't think it was right for them to marry. THAT is tasteless, and it is in direct proximity to various policies like apartheid and anything relating to segregation. There are entire unions of people who fight for their rights, when you say things like you've said you are basically slapping them in the face.
When you deny the rights to some and permit them to others, that is segregation. It is segregating the homosexual community because marriage is a right, regardless of whether you think so or not.
Marriage IS a right since it is a form of expression, an expression of love between two people. I would not deny the rights to people who I love, or to any other person for that matter. Why do you, the church or the state get to choose who gets to express their love and then on what terms?
Your statements were self contradicting, in that you said you had gay friends you loved yet, you didn't think it was right for them to marry. THAT is tasteless, and it is in direct proximity to various policies like apartheid and anything relating to segregation. There are entire unions of people who fight for their rights, when you say things like you've said you are basically slapping them in the face.
When you deny the rights to some and permit them to others, that is segregation. It is segregating the homosexual community because marriage is a right, regardless of whether you think so or not.
Scion of Mogo at 08/23/2009 17:44
"One of the big comments I'm seeing is that OSC is powerless and is only a voice. This is a misconception as while yes, He is a loud voice, He is also a board member of NOM (National Organization for Marriage.) So yes, Some of that money will be used directly for bigoted purposes. The sad thing is that it is an excellent game. If OSC was merely an opinionated bigot I wouldn't have a problem with buying it. But he's an opinionated bigot with a platform who happens to be on the Board of Directors for an organization that does work towards depriving other americans of rights."
I created an account on Destructoid specifically to make this same point. It'd be one thing if Card was a homophobe who kept such opinions a generally private manner. But we're talking about a pretty powerful voice within the anti-gay crowd, who puts a lot of time and most likely money behind making sure a certain group of people doesn't have equality.
I've come to the decision that I can't support Shadow Complex in light of this, which really pains me because I've heard such good things about it and am a very big fan of Castlevania and Metroid games. I understand the game itself is not bigoted, but when someone that influential to a bigoted cause receives money and perhaps even future jobs based on said game's success...well, I just can bring myself to support it.
Yes, I know this negatively impacts a lot of probably hard working and honest folks at Chair and Epic, but I hope with enough financial and PR impact these companies will put more thought and research into the folks they choose to collaborate with.
"One of the big comments I'm seeing is that OSC is powerless and is only a voice. This is a misconception as while yes, He is a loud voice, He is also a board member of NOM (National Organization for Marriage.) So yes, Some of that money will be used directly for bigoted purposes. The sad thing is that it is an excellent game. If OSC was merely an opinionated bigot I wouldn't have a problem with buying it. But he's an opinionated bigot with a platform who happens to be on the Board of Directors for an organization that does work towards depriving other americans of rights."
I created an account on Destructoid specifically to make this same point. It'd be one thing if Card was a homophobe who kept such opinions a generally private manner. But we're talking about a pretty powerful voice within the anti-gay crowd, who puts a lot of time and most likely money behind making sure a certain group of people doesn't have equality.
I've come to the decision that I can't support Shadow Complex in light of this, which really pains me because I've heard such good things about it and am a very big fan of Castlevania and Metroid games. I understand the game itself is not bigoted, but when someone that influential to a bigoted cause receives money and perhaps even future jobs based on said game's success...well, I just can bring myself to support it.
Yes, I know this negatively impacts a lot of probably hard working and honest folks at Chair and Epic, but I hope with enough financial and PR impact these companies will put more thought and research into the folks they choose to collaborate with.
I still do not understand the people that excuse Card by saying "just because he opposes gay marriage doesn't mean he hates gay people".
Are you kidding? Forbidding homosexual life partners to make a life altering and important decision in their own lives is downright cruel.
Are you kidding? Forbidding homosexual life partners to make a life altering and important decision in their own lives is downright cruel.
@Danielzilla: Jim didn't make this up just to post something. He's responding to a small but vocal minority that does want to boycott this game. You make it sound like he's sitting around in a wizard cap.
Obviously this is something worth discussing if it gets 100 more comments than any other article on a Sunday afternoon.
Obviously this is something worth discussing if it gets 100 more comments than any other article on a Sunday afternoon.
@Magnalon
I think the idea is that he doesn't directly hate homosexuals, even though he's indirectly being a cruel tyrant against them. He doesn't hate them as people, he just hates what they're doing? Whatever, I disagree with nearly everything he says on the issue. I just want to find some rational in his supporters so I don't lose faith in my fellow countrymen.
I think the idea is that he doesn't directly hate homosexuals, even though he's indirectly being a cruel tyrant against them. He doesn't hate them as people, he just hates what they're doing? Whatever, I disagree with nearly everything he says on the issue. I just want to find some rational in his supporters so I don't lose faith in my fellow countrymen.
I've seen more than one article say he thinks same sex marriage is the end of democracy. I don't have the full quote on hand, but when I did read it, he was more upset that American courts were deciding the legality of same sex marriage.
STFUAJPG, that's what I always say.
Nothing like this affects my purchase. Unless the actual work gets affected and blatantly sends negative tones, which rarely if happens, if at all.
Nothing like this affects my purchase. Unless the actual work gets affected and blatantly sends negative tones, which rarely if happens, if at all.
The term "homophobia" is so stupid. Just because you disagree with a person's lifestyle doesn't mean you're afraid of it. I disagree with how Christians think and live, but that doesn't mean I'm afraid of them. (Hell, my Mom's a friggin' fundamentalist, and I'm certainly not AFRAID of her!) The main problem I have with the gay marriage movement is this ridiculous need for acceptance. If you need, or even care about, acceptance from society, then you're weak in my opinion. If you want to have a marriage ceremony in a Unitarian church or something and SAY you're married, go ahead. But the need to make that marriage "official" shows that either you care about society's acceptance or you just want the legal benefits that come with marriage. Be stronger and stop whinning, and I'll have more sympathy for your cause.
Wow man.
There is so much I could say about your last comment JesusNinja, but I will spare myself.
I'll simply say that the Moral code you've outlined is flawed and archaic, and has been outdated in modern times.
"Also many people who for years lived gay lifestyle have since realized that their desires came from a deep and hidden yearning for something that manifested itself as homosexual desires."
I, uh.. just.. wow. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I can't believe anybody would say it in any amount of sincerity.
"I realize that to a lot of people what I'm saying may come across as being crass but I assure you it's not."
That may not be your intent, but it is what you are. Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining.
There is so much I could say about your last comment JesusNinja, but I will spare myself.
I'll simply say that the Moral code you've outlined is flawed and archaic, and has been outdated in modern times.
"Also many people who for years lived gay lifestyle have since realized that their desires came from a deep and hidden yearning for something that manifested itself as homosexual desires."
I, uh.. just.. wow. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I can't believe anybody would say it in any amount of sincerity.
"I realize that to a lot of people what I'm saying may come across as being crass but I assure you it's not."
That may not be your intent, but it is what you are. Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining.
@Kathy Queen of the Universe
To me homophobe or whatever else, that's just labels. Just like the label you used: 'liberal agenda'. Labels are easy, and not always helpful.
So instead I just look at the actual words that he says: And so I like to think of him as a man who stands against rights which I believe should fundamentally be available to all regardless of sexual orientation, a man who thinks he knows better than me whether I am truly happy or not and a man who believes that my very existence is best described as a tragic mistake.
Is that enough for me to dislike him? Yes, it most certainly is.
To me homophobe or whatever else, that's just labels. Just like the label you used: 'liberal agenda'. Labels are easy, and not always helpful.
So instead I just look at the actual words that he says: And so I like to think of him as a man who stands against rights which I believe should fundamentally be available to all regardless of sexual orientation, a man who thinks he knows better than me whether I am truly happy or not and a man who believes that my very existence is best described as a tragic mistake.
Is that enough for me to dislike him? Yes, it most certainly is.
if your going to boycot somthing why don't you boycot products made by slave labor like chocolate or child labor lots of stuff that is made in china india etc. OSC isn't actualy hurting anyone with his opinions.
Great article Jim. It's nice to know you can write an interesting article that isn't just a sting of jokes (I love those too btw).
@Krow
You know it to be true, though. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" doesn't work. It just doesn't. Human beings aren't capable of it. Perhaps this vaunted Jesus figure might have been capable of this, but common humanity isn't.
If you didn't have something against the PEOPLE, then one would be able to say, "I do not agree with homosexuality, but it isn't my life or my time on earth. THEY have to make the decision, not the government and not me." If you're a Christian who is able to think that way, then I could agree that you've got SOME idea of what "hate the sin, love the sinner" means. But most of them can't do this. When you could justify severely impacting the rest of someone's life and could deny them the choice your own scriptures say they should have? You don't just hate homosexuality. You hate the PEOPLE as well. You want to be petty enough to hold marriage close to your chest and scream, "NO! MINE!" You shudder with disgust that your own present or future marriage would somehow depreciate in value, like real estate, if homosexuals were allowed to "invade". You don't simply want to let your god take it up with those individuals when their numbers are up after they die; you want to try to be your god's little petit task force because you don't have enough faith that your god will handle it all in his own good time.
Basically, they DO hate the sinner AND the sin because they've 1) been told to because 2) they worry that enough people will join the accepting majority, and their little hateful contingency will decline in number. And we all know that the more people believe something, the more it makes it true. Right?
You know it to be true, though. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" doesn't work. It just doesn't. Human beings aren't capable of it. Perhaps this vaunted Jesus figure might have been capable of this, but common humanity isn't.
If you didn't have something against the PEOPLE, then one would be able to say, "I do not agree with homosexuality, but it isn't my life or my time on earth. THEY have to make the decision, not the government and not me." If you're a Christian who is able to think that way, then I could agree that you've got SOME idea of what "hate the sin, love the sinner" means. But most of them can't do this. When you could justify severely impacting the rest of someone's life and could deny them the choice your own scriptures say they should have? You don't just hate homosexuality. You hate the PEOPLE as well. You want to be petty enough to hold marriage close to your chest and scream, "NO! MINE!" You shudder with disgust that your own present or future marriage would somehow depreciate in value, like real estate, if homosexuals were allowed to "invade". You don't simply want to let your god take it up with those individuals when their numbers are up after they die; you want to try to be your god's little petit task force because you don't have enough faith that your god will handle it all in his own good time.
Basically, they DO hate the sinner AND the sin because they've 1) been told to because 2) they worry that enough people will join the accepting majority, and their little hateful contingency will decline in number. And we all know that the more people believe something, the more it makes it true. Right?
More pointless blather from Jim. Half way through this "article" you finally approach the question that was on everyone's mind while reading,"Should we boycott anything involving someone whose political opinions we disagree with?"
Gosh Jim the world is full of people you won't agree with, why take it so personally? On a side note, I do tend to think that homophobia is inaccurate term to describe those opposed to gay rights. Why don't we just attatch "phobia" after everyone's opposing views. It does not make sense because they are not litterally scared, they just don't agree with it.
Gosh Jim the world is full of people you won't agree with, why take it so personally? On a side note, I do tend to think that homophobia is inaccurate term to describe those opposed to gay rights. Why don't we just attatch "phobia" after everyone's opposing views. It does not make sense because they are not litterally scared, they just don't agree with it.
So this is what hardcore ps3 fanboys do now fuel the political propaganda.
Damn they are getting smarter. We should find a link involving hitler and halo and we are all set.
By the way my favorite series street fighter has a lot of rascists stereotypes that fact doesnt make me stop enjoying the game. And kof 12 has the most racist backgrounds i cant think and i dont care they are beautiful.
The question should be is the game good? if its good nothing else matters.
Damn they are getting smarter. We should find a link involving hitler and halo and we are all set.
By the way my favorite series street fighter has a lot of rascists stereotypes that fact doesnt make me stop enjoying the game. And kof 12 has the most racist backgrounds i cant think and i dont care they are beautiful.
The question should be is the game good? if its good nothing else matters.
"Man who wants to marry a cow -
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1910872.html
Man who wants to marry a pillow -
http://blogs.app.com/saywhat/2009/08/11/man-wants-to-marry-his-pillow/
Man who wants to marry an imaginary comic character -
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1440080.php/Japanese_man_launches_campaign_to_marry_manga_girl_"
Yes, because a consenting adult gay male or female has the same legal rights as cows and pillows.
Please try again.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1910872.html
Man who wants to marry a pillow -
http://blogs.app.com/saywhat/2009/08/11/man-wants-to-marry-his-pillow/
Man who wants to marry an imaginary comic character -
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1440080.php/Japanese_man_launches_campaign_to_marry_manga_girl_"
Yes, because a consenting adult gay male or female has the same legal rights as cows and pillows.
Please try again.
Kathy Queen of the Universe: Homophobia is a pathological fear of homosexuality. Card has given a clear indication that he is afraid of gay marriage. Saying gay marriage would spell the end of democracy is pretty evidence of a pretty frightened man. Whether he's a homophobe or not, he's clearly a scared old man who is terrified of changing values and the evolution of society.
Also, you misrepresent the nature of free speech completely. Orson Scott Card has the right to say whatever he wants, but WE have the right to call him a bigot if we believe what he says is bigoted. Nobody's stopping Card from saying whatever he likes. By the same token, nobody should stop us responding to what he says negatively if we think what he says is stupid.
Also, you misrepresent the nature of free speech completely. Orson Scott Card has the right to say whatever he wants, but WE have the right to call him a bigot if we believe what he says is bigoted. Nobody's stopping Card from saying whatever he likes. By the same token, nobody should stop us responding to what he says negatively if we think what he says is stupid.
JesusNinja, I wouldn't say of myself that I'm being civil :P so thanks.
The articles about people wanting to marry animals and inanimate objects is so ridiculous it almost doesn't bear any merit. They're not expressing or even experiencing true love because the cow and the anime girl pillow are not physically capable of returning their end of true love. Despite this, if they want to marry a cow or a pillow then whatever, it's not hurting anybody else. Chances are these people have real, significant issues that should really be addressed by a professional.
At that point it's largely an issue of legality, and any municipality wouldn't observe the union because a pillow or a cow don't have an income or property assets to tax, AND THEY'RE A PILLOW AND A COW WHY AM I ARGUING THIS SO EXPLICITLY, ugh..
The articles about people wanting to marry animals and inanimate objects is so ridiculous it almost doesn't bear any merit. They're not expressing or even experiencing true love because the cow and the anime girl pillow are not physically capable of returning their end of true love. Despite this, if they want to marry a cow or a pillow then whatever, it's not hurting anybody else. Chances are these people have real, significant issues that should really be addressed by a professional.
At that point it's largely an issue of legality, and any municipality wouldn't observe the union because a pillow or a cow don't have an income or property assets to tax, AND THEY'RE A PILLOW AND A COW WHY AM I ARGUING THIS SO EXPLICITLY, ugh..
I recall reading that QuestionableContent's maker loves the game and says "Buy shadow complex and donate $12 to GLAAD: it's too fun a game to be pissed Orson Scott Card was indirectly involved in it's creation."
So, yeah. That's there. Just throwing that there.
So, yeah. That's there. Just throwing that there.
@Volomon
"I mean should I ignore the fact that this woman probably doesn't agree with the fact that I'm about to do her?"
No, because it sounds kind of like rape otherwise, dude.
"I mean should I ignore the fact that this woman probably doesn't agree with the fact that I'm about to do her?"
No, because it sounds kind of like rape otherwise, dude.
@TheJesusNinja - Perhaps the reason that people pay more attention to Mr. Sterling's ideas is because they amount to examining the issue at hand and coming to a reasoned conclusion, while yours amount to 'a book says that God said this' - you know, this, it's part of the whole basis of faith.
But if you don't believe in what the book says in the first place then why would/should you take its ideas into consideration? You personally choose to believe in the ideas that the book sets out, and that's all very well. But as far as I am concerned you may as well ask me to take into consideration the rantings of the madman I saw on a train platform the other day. On the other hand, I listen to Jim's arguments because I can follow a train of logic that he draws plausible conclusions from what is at hand.
But if you don't believe in what the book says in the first place then why would/should you take its ideas into consideration? You personally choose to believe in the ideas that the book sets out, and that's all very well. But as far as I am concerned you may as well ask me to take into consideration the rantings of the madman I saw on a train platform the other day. On the other hand, I listen to Jim's arguments because I can follow a train of logic that he draws plausible conclusions from what is at hand.
I'm a Mormon and It's sad that anyone with a different view or opinion is labeled a "bigot". I'm not against gays themselves, I'm just against the practice. How hard is that to understand? Card has the same view, so how does that make either of us a homophobe? I have gay friends I hang out with, even though I don't agree on their lifestyle, just the same as I have friends with different political views.
Just because I don't agree with their views or aspects of their lifestyles doesn't mean I hate them. And that doesn't warrant the title of bigot.
Fuuny, how everyone who disagrees must clearly be an idiot or inferior just because their views differ from yours. And somehow you're open-minded?
Generally speaking, everyone should just get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.
Just because I don't agree with their views or aspects of their lifestyles doesn't mean I hate them. And that doesn't warrant the title of bigot.
Fuuny, how everyone who disagrees must clearly be an idiot or inferior just because their views differ from yours. And somehow you're open-minded?
Generally speaking, everyone should just get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is.
@Bioautographical
I couldn't agree with you more, but I can't help but feel a twinge of sadness that people like this are former friends of mine or members of my family. I want to rationalize it because I don't want to think of the members of my family as irrational dolts.
Which they are.
I couldn't agree with you more, but I can't help but feel a twinge of sadness that people like this are former friends of mine or members of my family. I want to rationalize it because I don't want to think of the members of my family as irrational dolts.
Which they are.
Haven't bought it yet... might as well claim this is the reason. That way I'm not lazy/broke, I'm just fighting the good fight.
My brother's gay, and I'm not. I get compliments on my kids, who I had with my likewise hetero wife. Meanwhile, my brother has to climb an infinite pile of shit at almost every turn. He has to put up with this at work, at home, even in our own extended family. I am amazed at the world because neither of us chose our orientation, and I'd be in the same pile of shit if I were born that way, which obviously could have happened. So, I'm the guy who says no to a game if it puts money in OSC's pocket.
I understand the whole "I can separate the artist from his work" sentiment because it's looking macro when you're spending micro. However, your money, however tiny the cut, that goes to funding the BS that future generations will shake their heads at. You don't know where the rest of it goes, but you know this for certain. Wouldn't you rather see progress in your lifetime?
People don't call for boycotts to punish a developer or a television camera operator, or whatever other rank and file people involved in the process. They do it to tell this and other developers to please not choose source material (which is all the same, honestly) whose profits fuel the people who hold back human progress. If a boycott works, they'll release the exact same game on some other source material, and humanity moves forward one one-millionth of an inch.
I understand the whole "I can separate the artist from his work" sentiment because it's looking macro when you're spending micro. However, your money, however tiny the cut, that goes to funding the BS that future generations will shake their heads at. You don't know where the rest of it goes, but you know this for certain. Wouldn't you rather see progress in your lifetime?
People don't call for boycotts to punish a developer or a television camera operator, or whatever other rank and file people involved in the process. They do it to tell this and other developers to please not choose source material (which is all the same, honestly) whose profits fuel the people who hold back human progress. If a boycott works, they'll release the exact same game on some other source material, and humanity moves forward one one-millionth of an inch.
@Volomon
"Sounds totally unAmerican, (damn British), I'm sorry but we can't just ignore everything. Yes maybe there are some secret links out there somewhere that supports someone that we don't agree with. However the fact is knowing makes a difference.
For instance look up blood diamonds or sex slaves. I mean should I ignore the fact that this woman probably doesn't agree with the fact that I'm about to do her? Just cause someone out there disagrees with it?"
So you're equating supporting a videogame to blood diamonds and sex slaves?
"Sounds totally unAmerican, (damn British), I'm sorry but we can't just ignore everything. Yes maybe there are some secret links out there somewhere that supports someone that we don't agree with. However the fact is knowing makes a difference.
For instance look up blood diamonds or sex slaves. I mean should I ignore the fact that this woman probably doesn't agree with the fact that I'm about to do her? Just cause someone out there disagrees with it?"
So you're equating supporting a videogame to blood diamonds and sex slaves?
"Whether modernists agree with or like this belief system is archaic or outdated, it really makes no difference to me or the other billion Catholics on Earth; because we believe that God set the foundations of human life in order and we want to keep them, no matter how much sin inundates the world."
That's obvious. Your god set lots of things the way they WERE and we've systematically changed most of them. Modern medicine, air conditioning, clear-cutting and commercial building. We've reshaped a lot of what your god obviously had planned for the earth when he allegedly first created it, and it seems to suit you just fine. All I see is cherrypicking - penicillin and automobiles are just fine with you, but freedom of marital choice and family planning is not.
And what's funnier is, you'll never consider the idea that you're wrong, ever. I've been down the religion alley before, gave it a try, realized it was unrealistic and turned around. Have you been up the non-Catholic alley, conversely? I'll bet not.
That's obvious. Your god set lots of things the way they WERE and we've systematically changed most of them. Modern medicine, air conditioning, clear-cutting and commercial building. We've reshaped a lot of what your god obviously had planned for the earth when he allegedly first created it, and it seems to suit you just fine. All I see is cherrypicking - penicillin and automobiles are just fine with you, but freedom of marital choice and family planning is not.
And what's funnier is, you'll never consider the idea that you're wrong, ever. I've been down the religion alley before, gave it a try, realized it was unrealistic and turned around. Have you been up the non-Catholic alley, conversely? I'll bet not.
Don't forget to bring your copies of Shadow Complex to the bonfire tonight as we burn them all. Oh wait it's not physical media hehe. Seriously though, did any of you even know card's view on homosexuality? Probably not, now that you do, will it effect your decisions on buying the game? I don't think so. What card believes in and supports shouldn't effect you in the least, as long as it's not in the game and being forced upon you. I'm sure there's things I don't agree with movie directors, but it won't effect me watching his or her movie, unless the movie is about their belief which I'm against
Jim Sterling: I'm fully aware of the meaning of "homophobia," and Scott Card is not homophobic. There's no fear there. There's not even any hatred there. He has written sympathetic gay characters in at least three of his books (I don't keep count, but I can think of three offhand). In no case was there judgment -- implied or otherwise. Being gay was a characteristic like, say, being left-handed.
As for "changing values and the evolution of society," there are a lot of people who do not believe these are good things. That does not make us homophobes or anything else. Just because we refuse to jettison a moral code that is no longer politcally correct does not make us "scared old people." We are people who happen to believe in traditional values -- something that is not in vogue these days.
In fact, these days it takes a hell of a lot more courage to stand up for traditional values than it does to join the throngs who are shouting for change because traditional values are no longer convenient. Scott Card is not the coward here.
For what it's worth, I'm well aware that your free speech gives you the right to call people what you want. You don't know Card -- I do. I thought you might appreciate the input of someone who has known the man for more years than you've probably been alive. Apparently I was wrong.
As for "changing values and the evolution of society," there are a lot of people who do not believe these are good things. That does not make us homophobes or anything else. Just because we refuse to jettison a moral code that is no longer politcally correct does not make us "scared old people." We are people who happen to believe in traditional values -- something that is not in vogue these days.
In fact, these days it takes a hell of a lot more courage to stand up for traditional values than it does to join the throngs who are shouting for change because traditional values are no longer convenient. Scott Card is not the coward here.
For what it's worth, I'm well aware that your free speech gives you the right to call people what you want. You don't know Card -- I do. I thought you might appreciate the input of someone who has known the man for more years than you've probably been alive. Apparently I was wrong.
"I'm not against gays themselves, I'm just against the practice. How hard is that to understand?"
I understand that specifically, I don't understand the apology for it. You make it sound like it's a choice. Gay people do not [i]choose[/b] to be gay. It is not possible to "get the gay." If somebody suddenly becomes gay, they've just realized it.
It's not a choice, it's a difference in direction. The coin falls on one side just as it can on the other.
Your "I don't hate gays, I just hate the gayness" statement doesn't apply. It doesn't work with gay people as it doesn't work with any other minority or ethnicity.
Just because you can say this about people who eat veal doesn't make it universally applicable. Eating veal is a conscious choice one makes. If I ask for Veal Cordon Bleu at the restaurant I'm choosing to eat a baby cow and I'll probably get a nasty look from the waiter, but I still made the choice in consideration of these consequences. (I honestly don't eat veal oh god don't hate me please)
I understand that specifically, I don't understand the apology for it. You make it sound like it's a choice. Gay people do not [i]choose[/b] to be gay. It is not possible to "get the gay." If somebody suddenly becomes gay, they've just realized it.
It's not a choice, it's a difference in direction. The coin falls on one side just as it can on the other.
Your "I don't hate gays, I just hate the gayness" statement doesn't apply. It doesn't work with gay people as it doesn't work with any other minority or ethnicity.
Just because you can say this about people who eat veal doesn't make it universally applicable. Eating veal is a conscious choice one makes. If I ask for Veal Cordon Bleu at the restaurant I'm choosing to eat a baby cow and I'll probably get a nasty look from the waiter, but I still made the choice in consideration of these consequences. (I honestly don't eat veal oh god don't hate me please)
"Homophobia is a pathological fear of homosexuality. Card has given a clear indication that he is afraid of gay marriage. Saying gay marriage would spell the end of democracy is pretty evidence of a pretty frightened man.
There are a lot of things that would be the end of democracy.
That's like saying I'm afraid of death, which can come in many different ways, including choking. Therefore, it's positive that I must be afraid of broccoli? Not likely.
There are a lot of things that would be the end of democracy.
That's like saying I'm afraid of death, which can come in many different ways, including choking. Therefore, it's positive that I must be afraid of broccoli? Not likely.
I only get his shit when I can pirate it.
I LOVE ender (surprise!) - so frankly, Orson can suck a dick. I'll pirate, steal, and whatever any of his works - I love his characters, but he doesn't deserve a dime from my pocket.
i'll vote with my wallet.
I LOVE ender (surprise!) - so frankly, Orson can suck a dick. I'll pirate, steal, and whatever any of his works - I love his characters, but he doesn't deserve a dime from my pocket.
i'll vote with my wallet.
Lucky Sevans makes an interesting point about the San Francisco thing. It's their first target on their quest to wipe the smegma from the US's testicles.
@bluerei
If these friends found someone with whom they connected and fell in love, would you support their getting married? Would you support a legally binding marriage license, and a ceremony in a church (not YOUR church, heaven forbid, but A church with more progressive views). Would that be okay with you?
If not, you're a bigot. Hell, I disagree with the drinking/partying lifestyle; I think it's pointless, and a waste of time and money. But I'm not standing anywhere with a picket sign, or posting on random internet websites, or writing my congressman, or any of those things trying to get alcohol banned, am I?
Supporting a right for one group of people but not for another is bigotry. Sorry to alert you.
If these friends found someone with whom they connected and fell in love, would you support their getting married? Would you support a legally binding marriage license, and a ceremony in a church (not YOUR church, heaven forbid, but A church with more progressive views). Would that be okay with you?
If not, you're a bigot. Hell, I disagree with the drinking/partying lifestyle; I think it's pointless, and a waste of time and money. But I'm not standing anywhere with a picket sign, or posting on random internet websites, or writing my congressman, or any of those things trying to get alcohol banned, am I?
Supporting a right for one group of people but not for another is bigotry. Sorry to alert you.
Kathy: Arguing tradition with me won't work, because to me there are few greater enemies to progress than so-called "tradition." I find tradition to be one of the most damaging aspects of any culture. I'm deeply sorry that some people are so afraid to embrace change, but unfortunately that's where things are headed. People change. Times change. And no religion, moral standard or ethic will ever stay the same. Things come, things go.
As to whether or not Card is a homophobe, that's a matter for semantics and personal opinion. I've not called Card a homophobe. I've stated he comes across as one, and he does. He radiates a sense of fear with his statements. Perhaps you may want to talk to him about the perception he gives off if he truly likes gay people, because right now he looks like an utter homophobe in the eyes of many homosexuals.
Gay people will be allowed to marry some day, across America. It's going to happen, and it will not spell the end of democracy. Don't believe me? Ask all those people who never believed we'd have a black man in the Whitehouse.
As to whether or not Card is a homophobe, that's a matter for semantics and personal opinion. I've not called Card a homophobe. I've stated he comes across as one, and he does. He radiates a sense of fear with his statements. Perhaps you may want to talk to him about the perception he gives off if he truly likes gay people, because right now he looks like an utter homophobe in the eyes of many homosexuals.
Gay people will be allowed to marry some day, across America. It's going to happen, and it will not spell the end of democracy. Don't believe me? Ask all those people who never believed we'd have a black man in the Whitehouse.
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