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SFIV's 3D polygons could have ruined hit detection photo

Street Fighter IV has been lauded as one of the best 2D fighters made in recent memory, but we could have seen a very different scenario play out. In our conversation with Seth Killian for the next episode of Bit Transmission, we received some insight into how the game managed to use 3D polygons while still retaining the accuracy players expect from a Street Fighter title.

 

When we first started out with Street Fighter IV [...] it was soft. It was lacking some of that pixel-perfect stuff that you want. But I just wanted to testify and say that you can actually get it done with 3D models. You just have to fudge it a bit. Which is, you don't actually have to use the models as the collision. You can do collision apart from the models. You can fudge it with the way collision works and use 2D collision systems even with 3D models.

Initially, it played wrong. That's all I can say. It didn't feel like a Street Fighter and the collision boxes were all mapped to the 3D models and that changed. So, we pushed reboot in the middle and went back to the 2D hit boxes. I think it's a lot of what preserved the Street Fighter feeling.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. If you want to preserve a feeling of a classic fighter, why not make use of the tools and techniques that create that feeling? It's always good to hear when developers don't abandon concepts in pursuit of the newfangled.

Make sure to come back on Wednesday to listen to our entire interview with Capcom's Seth Killian on episode six of Bit Transmission.








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Conrad Zimmerman is Destructoid's News Editor and home to the busiest mustache in the gaming press. An amateur historian and pop culture fanatic, Conrad possesses a nearly limitless wealth of videogame factoids and a passion for the power of games to teach, inspire and entertain. He enjoys reading, writing and turning things which should be fun into work. Likes Mega Man 2, Arcade Games, Books about games, Board games, Having cultural interests that aren't games Meet the rest of the team



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32 comments | showing # 1 to 32
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Rammstein's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 17:25
Rammstein
I remember hating the new art style of Street Fighter 4 at first--Oh wait, no I didn't, I hated the Japanime-Big-Eyes-Disproportionate-Bodies retarded style that every SF after SF2 took. Thus I am grateful SF4 went with a more classic look/feel, while also bringing it into the new millennium of 3D-ness.
The Pilgrums's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 17:26
The Pilgrums
Heard this on an old Giant Bombcast before the game was finished. Apparently it was awful before the switch.
robptx's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 17:32
robptx
Good thing they fudged with it. :o
Wedge's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 17:40
Wedge
Duh.
TheToiletDuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 17:42
TheToiletDuck
Makes sense. I guess if it was mapped off the 3d models a punch to the head would have to be pretty accurate.
doctor insidious's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:03
doctor insidious
It's not that abstract of a concecpt. Basically, a 2D skeleton is made of the player, with boxes indicating hit areas. When these hit indicators overlap or collide, the player is hit. This makes things a lot easier, because it allows you to use tools like Box2D for the detection.
Everyday Legend's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:07
Everyday Legend
SSFIV is fucking amazing.
Los255's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:10
Los255
Interesting.
Klempky's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:18
Klempky
Am I the only one that thinks it's strange that they didn't do that from the start?
Airbr1dge's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:23
Airbr1dge
I liked all the styles of street fighter. I guess I'm just easy to please.
azninvasion2000's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:32
azninvasion2000
does anyone know if the ex plus alpha renditions of street fighter utilized 2d or 3d hit detection? i'm guessing 2d since it felt pretty tight, but i remember situation where akuma could teleport on the z axis and the camera would rotate.
azninvasion2000's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:32
azninvasion2000
does anyone know if the ex plus alpha renditions of street fighter utilized 2d or 3d hit detection? i'm guessing 2d since it felt pretty tight, but i remember situation where akuma could teleport on the z axis and the camera would rotate.
deityofanime's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 18:59
deityofanime
For a fighter with a fixed 2D angle that seems a little like a no-brainer to me. -_-
wutang4ever's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 19:11
wutang4ever
I hope capcom actually makes a 2d looking title some day
Excel-2011's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 19:17
Excel-2011
@Klempky:
Not in the least. I would think that this choice should have been decision #1. How did Street Fighter EX handle it?
Los255's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 19:29
Los255
Not in the least. I would think that this choice should have been decision #1. How did Street Fighter EX handle it?

Do you have to ask? LOL

Very floaty, janky, and anything unlike what Street Fighter even feels like.
Endstiem's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 20:14
Endstiem
The EX games are highly underrated. They played differently, sure... but they were great fun.
casesomething's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 20:44
casesomething
SKULLOMANIA!
DinnertimeNinja's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 20:53
DinnertimeNinja
@casesomething

I AGREE COMPLETELY!
Creamsnake's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 20:58
Creamsnake
*Enters thread, righteously explodes dealing 999,999 dmg to EX haters for great justice*

Yeah, I guess they should have known... Still, I would love to try the old version to see what it feels like!
Dan CiTi's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 21:17
Dan CiTi
Yeah, I remember hearing about when it had true 3D hit boxes from a loke test or something and it sucked.

Oh and the EX games were pretty bad, besides the music and some of the hilariously bad characters(which I adore but for the most part don't really belong in SF).

@Rammstein
What anime-big-eyes SF games are you talking about? Alpha?
Neroisonfire's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 21:20
Neroisonfire
You wouldn't have this problem if you had computer engineers working on it. Hell, I'm a mechanical engineer and I can do 3D hit detection <_<

Lazy bums D:<
KaL YoshiKa's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/26/2010 21:52
KaL YoshiKa
Yeah seriously...why did they even think of using the 3d models as hit boxes to begin with. It's not a realistic fighter - dragging realistic hit boxes would mess things up.
dp2208's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/27/2010 01:23
dp2208
My guess is that they USED 3D hitboxes but made an orthographic projection of it to use them in 2D space. Would be nice to hear some more technical explanation of what solution they used.
Excel-2011's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/27/2010 02:49
Excel-2011
@Endstiem:
You're not the only one to tell me that, actually.
JustLikeBuck's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/27/2010 03:49
JustLikeBuck
Makes perfect sense until you realise Soul Calibur, Tekken, Virtua Fighter work perfectly well with 3D hit boxes.

Sure it wouldn't be Street Fighter, but then they threw that out when adding another dimension.
smang's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/27/2010 04:56
smang
Soul Calibur, Tekken, Virtua Fighter are all played in 3d. you can move sideways, push people sideways and dodge to the side. go home and be a family man.
adamocity64's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/27/2010 05:51
adamocity64
Soul Calibur, Tekken, and Virtua Fighter do not play like Street Fighter.

The bottom line is, if they had added 3d hit detection, it would no longer feel like a Street Fighter game. It would be a Soul Calibur, Tekken, or Virtua Fighter kind of game.
MrBounce's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/27/2010 11:21
MrBounce
That was the biggest worry when I heard SF4 was going to be 3D models (hit detection), so I'm glad they went back to 2D for that. The EX series had their charm, but they didn't "feel" like a Street Fighter game.
the7k's Avatar - Comment posted on 04/30/2010 16:25
the7k
@Rammstein
You hated the "Disproportionate-Bodies" of SFA, but like SF4's style?

You don't find it weird that skin-tone Hulk is wearing a white gi and shooting Hadokens?
Katya's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/14/2011 09:51
Katya
You can fudge it with the way collision works and use 2D collision systems even with 3D models.
Best regards, Katya, CEO of pc burn in test, rhel iscsi target
Jsparco's Avatar - Comment posted on 07/07/2011 13:34
Jsparco
Great policy! I'm looking forward in the next street fighter title. They keep their roots tied down.
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