Last night, I was lamenting to the rest of the Podtoid crew that I've never found a sufficient answer to the Natal Question. It eventually gets compared to World War II, but that's neither here nor there. My point is that every developer you ask is "excited" about Natal, but I've never seen any cool ideas to convince me Natal will be a good platform for videogames.
Enter Arkedo, developers of Big Bang Mini and a new series of Xbox Live Indie Games.
On NeoGAF, CEO Camille Guermonprez posted some pages from a design document for a game called 2-Finger Heroes, designed for Natal functionality. 2-Finger Heroes was supposed to be a side-scrolling brawler. The twist, though, is that players' fingers would control on-screen characters' legs.
If that's not interesting enough, Arkedo would've included a full range of gesture-based mechanics, including certain hand gestures to grab power-ups or arm motions to terraform your environment. Here's the best part -- offensive gestures result in gameplay demerits. Give somebody the two- (or one-) finger salute and face the consequences.
Guermonprez notes that this prototype was whipped up in twelve days, no doubt all the time they could spare from the grueling one-month-one-game schedule they've set up for themselves. He also mentioned that working with Natal represents a step up from Arkedo's comfort zone: "To put it in perspective, after having "upgraded" from the DS to the Wii, we wanted to see if we could do HD games without having everyone going facepalm and telling the world we should have [stuck] to simpler games. It may sound silly, but as Aurélien and I started making games in 1999 for mobile phones, and our first games were in 96X65 pixels resolution, in B&W ... each year we [were] wondering if taking the leap of faith towards more pixels [was] a good idea or not."
Unfortunately, the design's been scrapped. Getting Natal to recognize such precise movements has been a pain in the neck for Arkedo, and "it would have been HELL to localize. Yup, what can be understood as the victory sign in France, could be a terrible insult in the UK, for instance. And we are not even talking about Italian. Oh, the possibilities..."
State of the Natal: 2-Finger Heroes [NeoGAF via Joystiq]
Contest:
5:00 AM on 01.21.2010
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This.
I thought Natal was some kind of perfect 3d camera motion control thing, not just an arm waving, leg kicking gimmick?
Can't recognise finger movements? But will have "super awesome" facial recognition? - Bitch please.
I'm looking forward to the Arc/Gem and it's super sensitive, handwriting suitable motion control.
Snark out of the way, this actually sounds kind of interesting.
Companies all over the world hype the crap out if their products before they are released and many fail to deliver, that's the same story for Microsoft and sony.
Also worth noting is that perhaps the creators of this game
didn't have the technical skill to programme a game with natal that recognises such precise gestures.
To save yourself a lot of stress I would advise not starting crappy flame wars everytime the xbox is mentioned. It's far from impressive and has worn very thin.
It just looks so delightfully Paul Robertson.
Dammit.
I don't know much about the "tech" behind it, but Sony's Arc/Gem can replicate motion to sub pixel accuracy as shown by handwritingwriting with the thing in the tech demo.
Morning Bakewell, hope you're well today.
This is partially my problem with Natal, it's like 90% of MS's effort has gone into naming and hyping this thing, where as Sony are so busy actually making it work, improving and developing it that the perhipheral marketing bullshit like naming and hyping have taken a back seat.
If MS had spent the time and effort they used getting people on TV to kick fucking balls and generally do stupid shit with Natal, or perhaps rather than make that creepy little kid, they could have used that time and effort to make Natal better than it is, you know, improve it, finish it, test it properly.
It's MS all over to spend all their time hyping and trying to create perceived value when their product is often poorly made / designed, has numerous faults and flaws and often just doesn't work. Hence my hesitation to ever buy anything made by Microshaft.
All show - no go.
But at least it's got a catchy name and a butt tonne of hype behind it.
Suppose that's all they need to secure the dipshit market.
Muscle March for Natal!
have you ever heard the phrase "each to his own"?
It's about personal choice and preference, you assume people only buy the 360 because it's hyped but marketing doesn't make the world
go around and your offensive remarks with regards to the 360 buying populace only enforce flaming, fanboyism and general shitty behaviour.
Perhaps if you put as
much effort and
vigour into saving the environment or teaching courtney love to sing then you would be contributing to a worthy cause. As it stands your constant flaming only
makes you look like a fanboy with a chip
on your shoulder.
Seriously dude, take a day off!
As always, I'm not saying "anyone who buys a 360 is a dipshit" I'm saying only a dipshit would buy a product (Natal) based on so much Marketing and such little substance.
If substance comes later, then fair do's, go out and buy it. But at the moment Natal is all show and no go.
Don't be so easily offended man.
"Getting Natal to recognize such precise movements has been a pain in the neck
This.
I thought Natal was some kind of perfect 3d camera motion control thing, not just an arm waving, leg kicking gimmick? "
Let's not jump the gun SC. The fact that Arkedo had trouble developing their title isn't enough evidence to dismiss Natal.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it's too early to naysay. You don't want to be like those guys who've written off GT5 as irrelevant before release, do you?
Ah, another Natal post descends into and argument. Oh how the time flys.
I love this place.
Do you really believe that all MSD are doing is talking about Natal, and not actually putting any effort into developing it? That's what it sounds like you believe. I hope not - you're not that stupid.
They will want to back up their hype, otherwise that's just suicide. Sony's delay could be a clever little ploy to jump on the coat-tails of MS's motion control marketing push, seeing as how Microsoft's marketing is far, far superior to Sony's feeble attempts at it.
I kid, but food for thought, no?
Yea, something like this.
Then again, we have yet to play it, and isn't anyone just a bit curious as to even what we'll see at E3? I'm curious if there'll be any games that utilize it, let alone very well.
@Madrid gamer - Is that paella or one of those killer Spanish omlettes on your profile pic? Hungry now. mmmmm. I too look forward to seeing the button placement on the Arc/Gem, hoping they're sticking with the idea of having an alaogue stick on there too, trigger/triggers are a complete must too.
-NATAL seems like a neat idea - but I won't buy it.
-Sony's ARC looks like a dildo blowing a bubble - I won't buy it.
-Wii never interested me - I didn't buy it.
I like to control my games, not wave my arms around like a moron. All of the game company's have witnessed how Nintendo captured the 'casual market', and are now jumping on the bandwagon to try and rake in some extra profit while forcing developers to cater to this 'new demographic'. None of these technologies will offer a game changing experience because developers haven't made a generational leap since the introduction of 3D environments, and how long ago was that?
enough with the fanboy - "ARC is betterz than NATAL", "NATAL suxx". Lets let these technologies be released first then we can all join in condemning them together! The entire gaming community can be united over a common hatred for "Casual Games" and "Motion Controls" - rabble, rabble, rabble...
That said, I'm really curious, SexualChocolate: why do you think Sony's attempt at a Wiimote will give us anything better than Nintendo's attempt? Save for maybe one or two games (MAYBE), have any 3rd parties actually utilized the Wiimote for anything more than a gimmick or minigame compilation? Sure, NMH was fun, but the motion controls were secondary (you didn't even control the sword with them!) and felt like an afterthought.
The only company who has had any REAL success with the Wiimote is Nintendo itself, but besides Metroid and Wii Sports, their Wii games have BARELY used motion controls, and haven't been any "better" for forcing their implementation.
So what makes you think any 3rd parties are going to do anything with the PS3 that they haven't done with the Wii (which enjoys the biggest market share)? Just because it has the nicest graphics doesn't mean any 3rd party is going to throw us anything but recycled--but HD!--shovelware.
Microsoft needs to be perfect to bring all the audience once for all with natal, needs to be perfect now, because the wii + motion plus and the "Arc" have all the job done... I Preffer MS stuck with his good controller games and make better...
Now the shovelware market will rise 100% :S... This is bad...
It's kind of hard. To mark your words. When you. Don't use complete. Sentences.
I'll try. To do better. In the future. :)
The air about Natal has been shifting quite drastically as of late.
Originally almost everyone was "excited" by the "possibilities" of the device, but it seems now almost every other day another company is stepping forward expressing their doubts that they can do anything worthwhile on the thing.
Simply put, Natal is just an advanced EyeToy. There has NEVER been an even PARTLY worthwhile game on the EyeToy. Why MS thought that giving a crappy control scheme more precision would change the fact that it inherently sucks is anyones guess.
Sony's Arc/Gem is basically an advanced version of WiiMotion Plus with a camera thrown in to add a bit of extra functionality and precision. The Wii already has plenty of at least semi-decent uses for this type of motion control that have in many cases been hindered by the inaccuracy and limitations of the device.
Inaccuracy and limitations that DON'T exist with the Arc/Gem.
Simply put, Natal is only going to sell to the masses that MS can trick with their marketing, and the Arc/Gem will only sell if Sony actually BACKS the device and gets others to do so as well.
My Fiance (who has no console fangirlism whatsoever) has seen videos of the Natal and the Arc/Gem. She saw Natal first and said "Neat!" She saw the Arc/Gem next and said "OMG! CAN WE HAVE THAT?!" I think that pretty accurately sums up these two devices.
Umm... has your fiancee never seen a Wii? Or does the idea of practicing handwriting with the Arc really turn her on that much?
Or maybe everybody here has seen some magical "Here's what the Arc can do that the Wiimote can't that actually relates to games" video that I haven't?
She wants a Wii, too, but realizes that there's nothing on it that she wants to play other than Wii Sports/Sports Resort with friends. (And even that is only for 10 minutes at a time)
And have you not seen any of the main Arc/Gem videos? There's NOTHING in those videos that can be done accurately on a Wii.
As for stuff relating to "games." Did the sword fighting, archery, throwing stars, gun-combat, block building, flashlight stuff go over your head? Fuck, imagine Demon Souls played Sword and Shield style with that shit! Or a port of the new Silent Hill Wii game with better control and significantly better shadow effects and graphics.
Lastly, my Fiance is a graphic designer so she was quite impressed with how the spray paint streams change in thickness based on how you angle the can/wand. Really, that kind of precision could have a lot of in-game design applications.
If only it would happen, then the Angry Nerd can more accurately communicate the finger.
Anyway, message for the cosmically-anal Sexualchocolate: you're talking about a studio that has a small staff and aims to make one simple game available per month. Are you seriously going to hold this up as a failure for Microsoft? That a handful of guys couldn't churn out a respectable Natal game in 30 days? Anyone who thinks programming this stuff is trivial has no idea what programming is. Especially considering that this was probably their first attempt with both the hardware and software we're talking about.